I have been steadily making my way through the scripts that are hosted on this site and I thought it might be useful if I were to post some general thoughts about things that have occurred to me as I have done so.

My intention is to merely start a debate about shorts and films in general in the hope that it will help us all improve as writers and filmmakers.

I have had a look at all the shorts currently on the site, if I haven't commented on your script, please don't take it either as a sign that I didn't like it or that I didn't think it was worth commenting on, often what I would have said had already been stated by others.

OK, that being said;


1)I do believe that there is a dearth of stand out characters in the scripts on the site.

For me there was only one character in the shorts section (and this isn't a criticism of anyone's work, a couple of mine are in their as well) who intrigued me enough to want to see them in a feature or at least in another story. Too many of our shorts are "dead ends", they don't entice us to want to see anything further of that story or character.

I think as writers we need to have a bit of a think about some interesting characters whom the world simply can't do without.

Why?

Intellectual property rights. People love to watch their favourite characters, be it Jason or Freddy, Indiana Jones or James Bond. If you create a character that people relate to or love then it puts you in a very strong position as you are the one with the rights to him.

2) I think people should try and think of shorts that could conceivably be sold as adverts or as virals. Very often people say that they can't review a script as it is too short. However a film of less than 60 seconds can conceivably be sold as an advert, a market that is obviously lucrative.

  I spoke to this guy not long ago about a project:

     http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0423428/

He had recently been commissioned by an Asian mobile phone company to produce a series of adverts based on a short that he had made in just one day.

I've seen the short, it is OK, nothing special, it's about a guy who arrives at a train station, has a few martial arts fights and then enters a cinema and assassinates the projector guy. The assassin then breaks apart into a digital signal with the words "I am Digital".

Just the idea of this digital assassin has been enough to see him get hired for well into 6 figures.


Anyway, that is all.

Forgive the commercial bent to this post, It wasn't meant to be just about money. It's just that money is at least a marker of what people want to see.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films For me there was only one character in the shorts section...who intrigued me enough to want to see them in a feature or at least in another story.

As long as it is not a plug for your own story, I think you have to tell us which one it is, and unless you are feeling lazy, why they are so good.

You can't just toss something like that out there and leave people hanging!

It is never, ever frowned upon to plug the work of another author.

Otherwise, interesting post.

Are you sure, might give them a big head. 8)



Only my opinion of course, but I think Dogglebe's Sawyer  is the current "Daddy" of the site.

You wrote Somewhere Nice and Dark did you not? That was good.  Now I'm thinking about it maybe you could twist it a little and develop a charcater who has control over his own shadow or other people's.

Has that been done? That could be quite scary.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Are you sure...might give them a big head...but I think Dogglebe...

You should worry about making the Pope more catholic while you are at it…

I kid, Phil, I kid.  And I do agree that Sawyer makes a lasting impression very quickly.

And, yeah, SN&D is mine.  Thanks.  I really need to revisit that one when I get a chance.  There have been some really good recommendations from the people on this site and I should sift through them again.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I have had a look at all the shorts currently on the site

1)  Are you saying that you've read the 800 or so short scripts on this site?

2)  Are you saying that you've read the 800 or so short scripts on this site, and Sawyer is the only character you found worthwhile?

1) I don't know about 800 but I've looked at all the scripts from February 2004 onwards, that is as far as i can go on my computer.

I've not read them all page for page. I gave up on numerous of them for one reason or another.

2) No. I'm certainly not saying that. What I was suggesting is that I felt that particular character felt like it had more of a lifespan than the others. It was easy to imagine him in other stories, other films and attracting a fan base.

There are lots of well developed characters in the scripts on the site, and of course in your own scripts Mike, I just felt he was the one with the most potential to "break out" of his story if you will.

I suppose a lot of shorts by their nature are one off affairs.

Click here for Dog Run a.k.a. Dog Run.


Phil

I think a big problem with a lot of the shorts on this site is that they are obviously supposed to be feature length.

By this I mean the writer had an idea for a feature length screenplay but for some reason, be it lack of time or just being impatient, they decided to condense it in to a short. This means that characters and plot devices are not fully developed and we the reader are left with a feeling that it is somehow unfinished.

Then there are the shorts that are basically scenes  from a larger movie.  You know the kind I mean, the kind where people driving in a car pick up a hitchhiker only to be killed by their new passenger three pages later. This is normally the end of the script but it leaves us wondering, who the hell is this hitchhiker, why is he doing what he is doing and will he ever get caught?  In other words we would prefer it as a feature length screenplay with it all nicely wrapped up at the end...possibly left open for a sequel.

Of course there are the odd exceptions, stories that are designed to be a short, meaning all the characters are fully developed and an entire story, beginning - middle - end is presented to us in a way that feels complete.

I have read hundreds of scripts here too and I do have certain favorite characters just like I have certain favorite writers and certain favorite styles of writing.

I think a lot of people here have certain strengths in their writing, but only very few have it all. Ability to plot a good and unique story, interesting characters and excellent writing. Those are the ones whos scripts I study.

No need to mention names.... I think they know who they are.

Quoted Text I think a big problem with a lot of the shorts on this site is that they are obviously supposed to be feature length. By this I mean the writer had an idea for a feature length screenplay but for some reason, be it lack of time or just being impatient, they decided to condense it in to a short. This means that characters and plot devices are not fully developed and we the reader are left with a feeling that it is somehow unfinished. Then there are the shorts that are basically scenes  from a larger movie.  You know the kind I mean, the kind where people driving in a car pick up a hitchhiker only to be killed by their new passenger three pages later. This is normally the end of the script but it leaves us wondering, who the hell is this hitchhiker, why is he doing what he is doing and will he ever get caught?  In other words we would prefer it as a feature length screenplay with it all nicely wrapped up at the end...possibly left open for a sequel. Of course there are the odd exceptions, stories that are designed to be a short, meaning all the characters are fully developed and an entire story, beginning - middle - end is presented to us in a way that feels complete.

This is a good point. The point I'm trying to get across is that even most of the shorts which are perfectly written don't necessarily leave you wanting any more of that particular script or character. I'll find myself looking forward to reading other scripts by that author, but not necessarily hankering after the next story with that character.

I just thought it was important to mention that is all. The biggest films around always have very strong characters be it Freddy, Dracula, Captain Jack Sparrow, Indiana Jones, Jack Bauer. Whatever. People always want to see more of exciting characters.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I've actually done this process in reverse before.  I liked the Teddy character from Disposable Heroes so much that I decided to use him in The Caper.

I think he worked well in both cases, but it's definitely difficult to get as much out of a character in a short based on the limitations.  You don't usually see dual conflicts or subplots in shorts, and the character development has to be straight to the point.  Either they have a "gimmick" or they don't.

I think I may have a couple characters floating around that could work on the feature level.

We are talking about shorts here, so there will definitely be a big difference in a 3 pager compaired to a 35 pager as far as characterization goes.

Characters are important, but even more important, at least to me, is having a complete story with a beginning, middle and an end.

I think this is a very interesting topic for discussion, mainly because I hadn't really thought about creating 'recurrable' characters before (dips on that word!). I think I could, though.

Maybe that could be the theme for the next OWC? Create a short with a larger than life character, who effortlessly could glide over into features. The kinda character where you know what he/she's about within the first two pages of meeting him/her. Maybe even a catchphrase haha? "I hate snakes!", "Shaken, not stirred", some characters are identifiable solely from such a phrase, or an accessory or a manner of speech.

This has given me something to think about. Ooh, a challenge!

Death Monkey.

I'm pleased it's got you thinking, that was my aim.

Who knows, you might just write the next big thing. ;)

We should do writing exercises or something. You know what I mean right? Someone sets a task to be completed by a certain time. This could range from inventing an interesting new hero or villain and writing a detailed (but concise) biography on them, to writing a treatment / pitch for a film that they have seen as tho they were the writers trying to market it or even having to write a ten page script using the same basic plot and characters as everyone else just to see how their individual styles and personalities bleed in to their fictional work.

There are a lot of good writer's on this site, to name them all would be pointless cause we all know who the standouts are, but when it comes to shorts there is one that stands out, for me, as the best, it's 26 pages long, has basically no dialogue, but is able to create character's and have a compelling story, and that would be T.J's The mute, I thought this waS brilliant in every way, next to Martin's Open your mind it is the best script on this site, and there are a lot of great scripts on this site.  Bert's Salvage and someplace nice and dark, Pia's Burning Bridges and Santa's gift to Joey are just to name a few.  But for me the real stand out is The mute, I would hope that T.J enters this in some kind of short competition because it is really something special.

I may have strayed off topic but I felt I should should say this. :)

Wow.Thanks, Jordan. I feel sorta guilty for taking up space in this thread to reply to praise, but I felt I had to for those kind words.

I plan on entering it into some contests when I have a final draft on my hands, but it seems to me the contest-season is in the spring time?

Anyways back to the topic...

I think it would be interesting with a OWC that didn't list plotwise parameters (A man loses his job) but a more intangible concepts like "Write a fresh angle on a climatic showdown between the good guy and the bad guy" or "Create a trademarketable character with a catchphrase".

Just to mix it up a bit.

I've always believed that a story, be it a feature or short, is self-contained and should leave you satisfied, not necessarily wanting more.  I've never really thought about judging a script based it's shelf-life or potential for growth.  It's definitely something to think about though.  

This has kind of got me thinking about the ever-changing medium we're faced with nowadays.  It used to be simple - there was T.V and the theater.  With stuff like You-tube out now and technology the way it is, the template is changing.  I guess as writers it's important for us to understand the medium and gear our stories to fit within that framework.

I'll be honest, when I first joined this site I kind of frown upon shorts as inferior to features but now I see the value in them since they're more flexible; they can be molded more easily into a feature, a television show or any other medium.  they give you more options.

Whether it's a short or a feature, it should leave you with a feeling of completion.  Wanting more is an indicator of a good script; wanting to know WTF is another matter entirely.  And, whether it's a short or a feature, you need to start off with strong characters.


Phil

Quoted Text This has kind of got me thinking about the ever-changing medium we're faced with nowadays.  It used to be simple - there was T.V and the theater.  With stuff like You-tube out now and technology the way it is, the template is changing.  I guess as writers it's important for us to understand the medium and gear our stories to fit within that framework.

Exactly. Digital technology has ushered in an age of unprecedented opportunity for scriptwriters and filmmakers. Mobile Phones, Ipods, TV, Cable, Internet, Internet TV, Theatres, Advertising companies all need product. It's good for creative people to think of things that are geared towards different mediums.

It isn't just about the existing companies either. There is scope for a genuinely profitable underground movement. People like us on this site can group together to create new distribution avenues. Material that people enjoy spreads like wild-fire over the internet.

One thing that I do believe that is important though is that you have ongoing characters for people to follow.

Even if it's Dug the Zombie Hunter or whatever, he will build a fan base and people will come to watch your new episodes. If you only have one off shorts, there is nothing for them to get attached to per se.

Quoted Text I'll be honest, when I first joined this site I kind of frown upon shorts as inferior to features but now I see the value in them since they're more flexible; they can be molded more easily into a feature, a television show or any other medium.  they give you more options

Shorts would seem inferior in the sense that you haven't time to build characters and story as well. A 90 minute well constructed film should naturally have more impact than a 10 minute short.

However the reality isn't always like that. Also you can be more playful in shorts. They can be more philosophical or off-beat.

In some ways the place of shorts has been usurped by the micro-budget feature film. In the past people would make shorts to prove they could make films. Now a lot of producers want to see your micro-budget feature instead.

I still think that shorts have a bright future though myself and some of the best films I have seen have been made by short film makers. I hope that continues to be the case.

"Characters are important, but even more important, at least to me, is having a complete story with a beginning, middle and an end." - Pia

Yeah, I agree with Pia and I move foward saying that short movies will be the future of the movie business.

Here is a good example of a short with beginning, middle and end: http://wwww.simplyscripts.com/scripts/MyDearLoo.pdf

Quoted from tomson Characters are important, but even more important, at least to me, is having a complete story with a beginning, middle and an end.

I wholeheartedly disagree.  Without strong characters, no one cares about the story.  I won't even start writing until I have the characters developed in my head.



Phil

As the one who started this whole debate, let me be the one to adjudicate.

Quoted Text Characters are important, but even more important, at least to me, is having a complete story with a beginning, middle and an end. I wholeheartedly disagree.  Without strong characters, no one cares about the story.  I won't even start writing until I have the characters developed in my head.

There is no right or wrong, as writers you have the absolute autonomy on what you choose to write. Ideally a story should have all elements in equal measure.

However, the simple fact is that if you are looking to sell your script then character becomes all important.

In terms of what makes a good script/story then character is only as important as plot or strucure. In terms of what the general populace wants to see then character comes out on top every time.

This is the reason why American shows are so universally popular, their characters are so well defined.

Look at Lost; the plot was all over the place, but it didn't matter to the ratings because people enjoyed watching the characters. It's the reason reality TV is so successful, the reason that Spiderman 3 and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 were so successful. Worlds End has been panned by critics across the world, everyone I know that has seen it says it is terrible. It still had the biggest opening Box Office weekend ever. Why?

Because everyone loves Jack Sparrow. The advert for the computer game says in big letter "Now you can play as Jack Sparrow".

When you pick up a Suoerman comic or watch a Superman film, you know exactly what is going to happen in each and every episode. It doesn't matter, because the people who pay to watch films want only escapism. They want to feel that for 90 minutes, one guy can save the world and then walk home and imagine being that person.

Psychologically speaking it is sad, and against everything that I believe in, but it is, as they say, just the way it is...

I suppose I agree with decadence, even if he gave bad examples.  

However, characters are defined by how they react to the world.  In most shorts the characters are ill defined because they have very little to react to.  You end up having to make a caricture instead of a character to get a sense of a true individual across to the reader.  

In other words, you got to pound the reader over the head with the characters uniqueness.  Give him a silly hat. A penchant for an obscure liquor.  And, for good measure, have him be a specialist in an obscure subject like coleopterology. There, you got a character.  

Now all you need to do is have him go to a bar, drink a few papaya staff-slings, overhear a story about a mysterious beetle that is eating humans alive in a nearby forest.... and you got yourself a story.

Dethan

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films 1)I do believe that there is a dearth of stand out characters in the scripts on the site. For me there was only one character in the shorts section (and this isn't a criticism of anyone's work, a couple of mine are in their as well) who intrigued me enough to want to see them in a feature or at least in another story. Too many of our shorts are "dead ends", they don't entice us to want to see anything further of that story or character. I think as writers we need to have a bit of a think about some interesting characters whom the world simply can't do without. Why? Intellectual property rights. People love to watch their favourite characters, be it Jason or Freddy, Indiana Jones or James Bond. If you create a character that people relate to or love then it puts you in a very strong position as you are the one with the rights to him.

Are we saying that a character that is "good" is one that is marketable?  

No.

Just saying that it might be an idea for writers to think about the kinds of things that sell and why.

It was advice for people who want to sell their work not advice about the quality of work.