The One Week Challenge is going to be a little different this go 'round.  For starters, I thought it would be cool to vote on the genre.  The theme for the OWC will be announced this Saturday.

Don

[edit] does this mean anything?

This voting thing is pretty cool Don! One question, where's the horror option? Is thriller considered horror?

Not hundred percent sure I have the time to participate, but I voted for thriller. That could be fun.

Great idea btw, this vote thing.

Pia wants to know where is the mocumentary genre hahaha.....

Very cool idea. <---- My vote for this to become a permanent change to the OWC process. Oh and my vote was for Action/Adventure.

Quoted from Zack This voting thing is pretty cool Don! One question, where's the horror option? Is thriller considered horror?

Zack, I'm saving Horror to Halloween.

Don

Oh! Okay! That'll be a good one!

~Zack~

I think it would be nice to do something that hasn’t been done before. We’ve already seen Comedy, Horror, Sci-Fi.

Writers always say they hate Rom-Coms even though millions of people go to see them.

Noir might be interesting. I think Mystery might be too hard.

Action/Adventure? I can’t make up my mind.

I think Fantasy will produce a lot of random nonsensical material -- haha.

Crime will yield a lot of Tarantino models.

Hmmm.

What is Noir?

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack What is Noir?

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-short/m-1136405910/

I voted for Action/Adventure. I've wanted to see a OWC based on that genre for some time now. Comedy, drama, and horror have all been done twice and I don't think we need another repeat with Sci-Fi any time soon. I agree with Breanne that Crime and Noir will probably yeild too many Tarantino/Sin City knockoffs. Action should be fun.

Just a thought, should the only people who  vote be the ones who participate in it, cause we could end up getting like 20 votes just from random people.

Quoted from The boy who could fly Just a thought, should the only people who  vote be the ones who participate in it, cause we could end up getting like 20 votes just from random people.

No -- you are stuck with whatever the genre ends up being anyway.  And lots of people may or may not decide to play based upon that final tally.

The votes should be for what people would like to read, I think, and that could be anybody.

I created my own genre called Zack, where each script must contain a drawn out action.

Example:

Ed sits on his couch.  He aims the remote control at the TV, and flips through each channel of his 500 channel satellite package.  Twice.


This is why nobody likes me.



(*Action/Adventure*  Couldn't bring myself to vote Rom-Com)

Mike, I think you just struck gold!
I also vote for Zack!!!

~Zack~

Quoted from bert Pia wants to know where is the mocumentary genre hahaha.....

Hey now, be nice.

I messed up on a few things, but some people liked it.

Phil should be happy. I read Pugumentary three times trying to get a hang of how it should be done.

Quoted from tomson I messed up on a few things, but some people liked it.

Actually, Pia’s entry is pretty good. For a tough genre and subject, she did an excellent job. Personally, I think she’s got a shot. And my opinion with a million dollars will make you a millionaire.


Breanne

Eek! So many decisions! I want to pick, but me, being an indecisive one, will probably end up choosing something and it will be too late. If this challenge ends up being a thriller, I'll probably some how transform it into a horror (since both genres aren't too different from each other). Comedies aren't my thing, but I have a feeling it won't be one since we just did one (and my, did I fail :P).

So my decision is either between Noir or Thriller.

Sean

Well I jumped straight in with my vote for fantasy...the reason now escapes me cos I haven't got a clue what I'd write.

This is pretty damn cool. Are we doing this every OWC?

I voted for Comedy... Not!

Great idea Don. The voting and the contest. Cheers.

Where's the anime option?  Yeah I know anime is quite a derogatory word because of the fact that there are animes produced in every genre, but still.  My vote is for anime!

Quoted from Alan_Holman Where's the anime option?  Yeah I know anime is quite a derogatory word because of the fact that there are animes produced in every genre, but still.  My vote is for anime!

I have no idea what defines an animé script? the OWE challenge is about working with parameters of genre and concept. Anime entails no specificity and can be about ANYTHING.

So anime wouldn't really be a challenge. Only for the animators.

I think I've lost control of my game....


Phil

ooooooooooo Looks like a race between action and thriller, C'mon action, you can do it :D

Man, this is cool. I vote...

Noir!

I wanna write one! Whoo! ;D

Quoted from Alan_Holman Where's the anime option?  Yeah I know anime is quite a derogatory word because of the fact that there are animes produced in every genre, but still.  My vote is for anime!

Anime can be classified as any genre so write an anime based on the genre chosen and you wrote an anime.

I voted for Action/Adventure because it is the genre that lets you have a lot of fun without any emphasis on comedy.

Man, what an awesome idea.

This one is gonna be a fun read.


Matt.

Chose thriller since I'm writing one and under these constraints, I would like to read the works.

Gabe

Quoted from tomson Phil should be happy. I read Pugumentary three times trying to get a hang of how it should be done.

Phil is very happy.

Quoted from Alan_Holman Where's the anime option?  Yeah I know anime is quite a derogatory word because of the fact that there are animes produced in every genre, but still.  My vote is for anime!

Chances are you'd be the only one voting anime.


Phil

Keep in mind, everyone, that you should vote for a genre that would challenge you.  And something that you've done before and without any problem.


Phil

I voted crime, just because I haven't written something like this in ages.

Why so many thrillers, there's too many of those these days. : )

Film noir is catching up nicely.  An excellent genre!  I recommend everyone vote for it.


Phil

Awww, I didn't see film noir! I just saw crime and voted for it without really looking at the other genres, haha. Too bad I can't change my vote, I've never done film noir. IT would be very interesting to write.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I would love to do a Film Noir short.  I have never attempted anything like that and I believe it would be incredibly fun.

Too bad I already voted...

:p

I hope it's a thriller about flowers.

Quoted from dogglebe Film noir is catching up nicely.  An excellent genre!  I recommend everyone vote for it. Phil

8)

i think it would be fun to do a spaghetti western or even a 1950's style Sci-Fi....maybe im just feeling nostalgic

Can we only vote once?

My pick is thriller

--Kotton

I voted..haha...for...hahaha...Come...hahahaha!

It was indeed a surprise to find out that so many people, apart from me, voted noir. Wouldn't have guessed the genre was so popular. Must have been because Simply Noir's success at the reading box office  8)

Quoted from Helio I voted..haha...for...hahaha...Come...hahahaha!

Am I missing something?  Was porn an option?

I think he meant comedy. You know Helio, sometimes he gets so excited that he misses some of the keys on the keyboard.

~Zack~

I find it interesting 77 people have voted. Who are all these people?

I'm vote number 66.

So when do we hear what we're going to be writing on?

Saturday is when all the info will be announced.

Sounds like a lot of fun.
That picture you have up, Don - the sinking caravan - is that the theme?

I was gunning for action, but the sinking caravan has thrown me off...I don't think I could do anything with that. Now, I wish I'd gone with film noir.

'visit Simply Scripts and buy useless crap you don't need.'

Are you opening a SS-themed shop and will be selling SS coffee cups, mousepads, t-shirts, etc?



Phil

I voted for thriller but there s currently a tie between thriller and Action/Adventure and Noir is one vote behind. This will be a close one but what if noone votes today? will the announcements be delayed?

Film Noir, Film Noir, for the love of God let it be Film Noir!



.....What?..... I like Film Noir a lot, that's all! :D

Holy crap! 3 genres are tied now. I was pretty sure Thriller was gonna win until now.

This is probably one of the most suspenseful polls I have ever witnessed in my life while on the net. Jeez, I think they should close the poll right when one of those three gets to twenty votes.

I just hope there are no hanging chads, that would suck big time.

I am definitely not in it if it's Noir.  What a stupid boring genre!  It's outdated and the scripts written in that style all sound the same and are utterly predictable.  Do yourself a favour and choose something where people can actually be creative.

Whoever you are that is going to vote next, if you choose thriller it does NOT preclude someone from turning in a Noir script.  But if you choose Noir it does exclude a general thriller.   Vote wisely.

Quoted from mcornetto I am definitely not in it if it's Noir.  What a stupid boring genre!  It's outdated and the scripts written in that style all sound the same and are utterly predictable.  Do yourself a favour and choose something where people can actually be creative. Whoever you are that is going to vote next, if you choose thriller it does NOT preclude someone from turning in a Noir script.  But if you choose Noir it does exclude a general thriller.   Vote wisely.

>:( That's just dumb. Sorry.

C'mon Noir! I want to write you! ;D This is pretty suspenseful!

Quoted from Parker >:( That's just dumb. Sorry. C'mon Noir! I want to write you! ;D This is pretty suspenseful!

Prove what I said about the genre isn't true.  And not the part where I express my opinion "What a boring stupid genre".  But the part where I say "It's outdated and the scripts written in that style all sound the same and are utterly predictable".   Prove that isn't true.

Quoted from mcornetto I am definitely not in it if it's Noir.  What a stupid boring genre!  It's outdated and the scripts written in that style all sound the same and are utterly predictable.  Do yourself a favour and choose something where people can actually be creative. Whoever you are that is going to vote next, if you choose thriller it does NOT preclude someone from turning in a Noir script.  But if you choose Noir it does exclude a general thriller.   Vote wisely.

Sorry, but that's pretty uneducated. Personal preference is fine, but saying that the genre is outdated and every script sounds the same is just wrong. Case in point: A Touch of Evil VS the Big Sleep VS China Town VS Angel Heart VS Dark City VS Sunset Boulevard VS Sin City.

If you don't want to participate, fine, but the entire cross-armed pouting thing is a little childish, I think.

Quoted from mcornetto Prove what I said about the genre isn't true.  And not the part where I express my opinion "What a boring stupid genre".  But the part where I say "It's outdated and the scripts written in that style all sound the same and are utterly predictable".   Prove that isn't true.

Usually it's the other way around. you have to prove YOUR claim. Something isn't true until it's disproven...

but look at the examples I gave.

Quoted from Death Monkey Sorry, but that's pretty uneducated. Personal preference is fine, but saying that the genre is outdated and every script sounds the same is just wrong. Case in point: A Touch of Evil VS the Big Sleep VS China Town VS Angel Heart VS Dark City VS Sunset Boulevard VS Sin City. If you don't want to participate, fine, but the entire cross-armed pouting thing is a little childish, I think.

I still think you haven't proven a thing.  Those movies all sound the same.  The outcome is the same. They are set in similar time period, which is MANY years ago.  They have the same sort of characters.  Granted they have little differences - but not much in my book.  Sunset Blvd and Touch of Evil are great movies.  Leave it at that and MOVE on.

And my little "childish" (as you call it) rant is not particularly directed at movies that were made during this time period, when the genre was fresh.  But at modern mimicking of this genre.  And especially at having to read many scripts that mimic this genre.  1 or 2 would be cool.  But to read twenty written by people that have varying experience with the genre is a nightmare.  They will be 1. outdated 2. sound the same. 3. be utterly predictable.  

You want to read them. Fine. Go for it.  

Film Noir isn't even a genre in the truest sense of the word, it is more to do with style.

You can write about absolutely anything you want.

You have a point in that they tend to share similar characteristics, but then again don't all genres/styles of films? Do you really need to watch another action film after seeing Die Hard? You know what's going to happen.

Thrillers are also as predictable.

The only problem with Noir is that it has been so badly imitated and parodied that many writers fall into cliche when producing their scripts.

Pulp Fiction, Seven, Basic Instinct even Taxi Driver, Blade Runner are all Noirs IMO.

Good writers can always re-define a genre.

Can someone  please give me a simple definition of Noir?! I'm feeling really left out and am in desperate need of a hug...

~Zack~

Quoted from mcornetto I still think you haven't proven a thing.  Those movies all sound the same.  The outcome is the same. They are set in similar time period, which is MANY years ago.  They have the same sort of characters.  Granted they have little differences - but not much in my book.  Sunset Blvd and Touch of Evil are great movies.  Leave it at that and MOVE on.

Well, like I said, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Why don't you prove that they sound the same, before you ask us to disprove it?

Quoted Text They are set in similar time period, which is MANY years ago.

While most film noir is set in the 30s-40s-50s (which isn't one time periode, mind you - just like the 70s-80s-90s isn't "one") this is because this is when noir bloomed. So they are in fact contemporary. From the list I supplied there's Sin City and Dark City -and I could throw in Blade Runner and anumber of sci-fi-noir flicks (Gattaca, the Thirteenth Floor) - who aren't set in this era. Beyond that there's The Usual Suspects, Blood Simple and Body Heat just off the top of my head.

Is that proof that not all noir flicks are set in "the same" time period?

Quoted Text And my little "childish" (as you call it) rant is not particularly directed at movies that were made during this time period, when the genre was fresh.  But at modern mimicking of this genre.  And especially at having to read many scripts that mimic this genre.  1 or 2 would be cool.  But to read twenty written by people that have varying experience with the genre is a nightmare.  They will be 1. outdated 2. sound the same. 3. be utterly predictable.   You want to read them. Fine. Go for it.

Thank you kind sir.

Your rant was childish because you basically came off as saying "Well, if it's noir, then I'm not gonna do it!" and made it seem somehow irresponsible to vote for noir because it doesn't encompass as much as "thriller" does. Well, that's the challenge, I'd say. What the hell is challenging about writing a genre that has no tangible characteristics - none that I'm aware of anyway? Thriller is too broad and too easy.

Quoted from Zack Can someone  please give me a simple definition of Noir?! I'm feeling really left out and am in desperate need of a hug... ~Zack~

Like Rick said, Noir is a style. It's often very evident in the actual lighting and cinematography, but on a writing-level it's traditionally characterized by a number of character-types and basically has a bleak outlook on life. the police are either corrupt or inept, the hero doesn't want to save anyone, the dame doesn't want to love anyone, and the villain is often quite pathetic when it comes to it.

The style is rife with revenge motifs and the moral of the story (if there is one) is often that you can't change the world, the world changes you.

There is no simple way of putting it, except to say if you haven't seen a noir film, you progbably can't write one.

I actually think the final lines of Seven sums up the noir mantra nicely: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part."

That's an optimistic noir.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

So you can write a noir... and still have it a slasher?(so to speak)

In theory, I guess...but I can't really imagine it. Often film noir deals with what comes after the crime, so it's about finding the killer, not the actual murders.

Quoted from Death Monkey Well, like I said, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Why don't you prove that they sound the same, before you ask us to disprove it?

Well let's see, I made a statement. You accused me of being uneducated and said my statement wasn't true.  Sounds to me like you are the accuser.  So by your rules, you need to prove it.

Quoted from Death Monkey While most film noir are set in the 30s-40s-50s (which isn't one time periode, mind you - just like the 70s-80s-90s isn't "one") this is because this is when noir bloomed. So they are in fact contemporary. From the list I supplied there's Sin City and Dark City -and I could throw in Blade Runner and anumber of sci-fi-noir flicks (Gattaca, the Thirteenth Floor) - who aren't set in this era. Beyond that there's The Usual Suspects, Blood Simple and Body Heat just off the top of my mind.

Look at IMDB and see what is considered Noir.  Here's a link mate http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/

Quoted from Death Monkey Is that proof that not all noir flicks are set in "the same" time period?

Film Noir.  Bring it.

Quoted from mcornetto Well let's see, I made a statement. You accused me of being uneducated and said my statement wasn't true.  Sounds to me like you are the accuser.  So by your rules, you need to prove it.

Really?

So if you accuse me of murder and I say "you're wrong, I didn't do it" the burden of evidence lies with me because I'm 'accusing' you of being wrong?

Please.

You made a claim which you didn't back up and then starting telling everyone to disprove your claim when they told you it was baseless.

Furthermore, I DID supply proof why were being uneducated so your analogy fails on all fronts.

Quoted Text Look at IMDB and see what is considered Noir.  Here's a link mate http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/

I think we're all quite familiar with the Imdb. Now, is there anything, specifically, you want to paraphrase from the the top 50 to back up any part of your argument?

One more question. Was the original Pyscho a film noir?

I wouldn't call Psycho noir personally, no.

Here's my guess as to what the theme will be...

"buying useless crap you don't need."

Everyone is trying to figure out what 's in the picture, when I don't think the picture has anything to do with it at all! Ignore the picture! Read the text.

~Zack~

The list on the IMDB website is from the classical film noir period.

You can argue critically that nothing made since that period can be called film noir, however it doesn't prevent you from writing in a similar style.

Quoted from Death Monkey Really? So if you accuse me of murder and I say "you're wrong, I didn't do it" the burden of evidence lies with me because I'm 'accusing' you of being wrong? Please. You made a claim which you didn't back up and then starting telling everyone to disprove your claim when they told you it was baseless. Furthermore, I DID supply proof why were being uneducated so your analogy fails on all fronts.

I didn't see any proof.  Just a list of movie vs movie that actually made zero sense at all.

I am not accusing you of murder but you are accusing me of being inaccurate, uneducated, and childish.  I am neither of the three.  Matter of fact - I haven't accused you of anything.  All I did was make a statement about Film Noir.    

Quoted from Death Monkey I think we're all quite familiar with the Imdb. Now, is there anything, specifically, you want to paraphrase from the the top 50 to back up any part of your argument?

Take a look for the movies you mentioned in the alphabetical index and tell me how many are on the list of Noir films.  You won't find a movie made past 1960 on that list.

Mcornetto

So you are effectively saying that no-one has made a film noir script in over 40 years?

I don't think you really believe that do you?

How about Sin City. Is that a film noir?

Quoted from mcornetto I didn't see any proof.  Just a list of movie vs movie that actually made zero sense at all.

You say: All noir is the same!

I say: These movies aren't the same.

So first of all, why don't you supply proof of you initial claim before jumping on everybody else's throats?

Secondly, do you contest that these films aren't the same? Do you believe them to all sound the same? 'Cause if you honestly do, I will tell you why they're not, but I don't wanna write an essay unless you actually disagree with me.

Quoted Text I am not accusing you of murder but you are accusing me of being inaccurate, uneducated, and childish.  I am neither of the three.  Matter of fact - I haven't accused you of anything.  All I did was make a statement about Film Noir.

That's why it's an analogy. Let me condense it:

You make a claim. You dont' back it up.

People challenge your baseless claim.

You tell them to prove that it's baseless, without yourself having supplied proof of anything.

You see why this irks some people?

In the court-room analogy you initial claim is what needs to be defended, as it's not a self-evident truth. You need to explain, or supply examples HOW/WHY noir is all the same, boring and stupid, before you can ask anyone else to DISPROVE it. Just like a (murder) trial, if you will.

it goes back to what we consider proper debate etiquette. that something isn't true until proven untrue. We must assume that something's untrue until proven the opposite.

I found your statement uneducated and I told you why. I found your attitude extremely childish and I told you why.

Quoted Text Take a look for the movies you mentioned in the alphabetical index and tell me how many are on the list of Noir films.  You won't find a movie made past 1960 on that list.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/

The imdb also suggest the films Ichi the Killer, Tightrope and Basketball Diaries as similar films for Monster (2003).

Imdb, like wikipedia, is a good stepping stone to film, but not a peer-reviewed source and it doesn't disclose how it determines genre.

So are you really saying that there hasn't been made a film noir flick in 67 years?

Quoted from Death Monkey http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/ The imdb also suggest the films Ichi the Killer, Tightrope and Basketball Diaries as similar films for Monster (2003).

What does this link have to do with Film Noir.  Imdb lists the Genre of this film as Biography / Crime / Drama / Romance.

Quoted from Death Monkey Imdb, like wikipedia, is a good stepping stone to film, but not a peer-reviewed source and it doesn't disclose how it determines genre.

Are you saying that IMDB genre assignments are wrong?

That's it. Going to bed.  

Film noir is not a Genre.

The quote below is fom filmsite.org

Important Note: Strictly speaking, film noir is not a genre, but rather the mood, style, point-of-view, or tone of a film. It is also helpful to realize that 'film noir' usually refers to a distinct historical period of film history - the decade of film-making after World War II, similar to the German Expressionism or the French New Wave periods. However, it was labeled as such only after the classic period - early noir film-makers didn't even use the film designation (as they would the labels "western" or "musical"), and were not conscious that their films would be labeled noirs.

I will agree with mcornetto on one salient point.

The turnout for this OWC is gonna be huge, I think...

AND I don't want to be faced with 40 Noir scripts where maybe 25% of the authors know what the heck they are doing with such a genre.

Maybe less.

Remember, scripts are anonymous.  You cannot pick an author you trust to deliver good noir.  You gotta look at the scripts cold.

Tiebreaker goes to Thriller or Action, I would say.

What's the point of even voting then?

If it's about just doing what the majority is good at then it seems a bit of a farce to me.

The challenge is surely to grow as a writer and to take yourself out of the comfort zone.

I'd be very disappointed if something people have legitimately voted for is cast aside on the whim of a moderator just because they can't be bothered reading them.

Particularly as the term Film Noir is so open-ended that you can do anything:

Even David Lynch has been described as Noir as he emphasises the dream like quality of that genre.

I get sent a lot of thrillers everyday and I'd rather not have to read any more of those.  ;D

I agree with Bert here.

Just look at this thread. We don't even seem to be able to agree on what Film Noir is. How many people will actually be able to write one besides Phil?    ;D

I say let's bring on the mockumentariies!  :P

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films What's the point of even voting then? If it's about just doing what the majority is good at then it seems a bit of a farce to me. The challenge is surely to grow as a writer and to take yourself out of the comfort zone.

Your point is very true. I just did the NYC challenge and was definitely taken out of my comfort zone with a mockumentary.
I actually voted for the film noir in this poll. The only thing that bugs me as I posted earlier is that it is not a genre and this is where I agree with mcornetto.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I'd be very disappointed if something people have legitimately voted for is cast aside on the whim of a moderator just because they can't be bothered reading them.

No dec, the final say isn't mine haha.  I do not have such power.  It was just a suggestion.

We would spend the whole week debating what noir really is.

And honesty, aside from bad comedy, is there anything more tedious than bad noir?

I also agree with Bert. Mostly because I still don't understand what film noir is...

According to the screewnwriters bible, "film noir (literally night film) describes both a genre and a shooting style - shadowy, cynical, and realistic- and a storyline that features ordinary people in over their heads, no heroes and villains per se, but generally a struggle betweengood and evil within the central character, often ending unhappily."


What time does the voting end? I'm so eager to write.

Gabe

Quoted from Zack I also agree with Bert. Mostly because I still don't understand what film noir is...

If it gets chosen you will find out quick enough. Research is an amazing thing  ;)

Maybe the genre showing the least amount of votes should get chosen.

Quoted from elis If it gets chosen you will find out quick enough. Research is an amazing thing  ;)

But I don't wanna research... I wanna write!

Quoted from Zack But I don't wanna research... I wanna write!

You have to research to write
.

Wow this thread sure took an unexpected turn, wasn't the last batman kinda noirish, you can do a lot with noir, the hardest thing is to do it well.  Looks like the top one changes all the time, probably have to wait for the last minute.

Quoted from tomson I say let's bring on the mockumentariies!  :P

Pia, How dare you, lol

Quoted from mcornetto What does this link have to do with Film Noir.  Imdb lists the Genre of this film as Biography / Crime / Drama / Romance.

It has to do with Imdb inaccurately grouping very different films together as similar, and showing that the siteisn't the oracle of cinema. In short: You can't trust everything your read on Imdb. Just a head's up.

Quoted Text Are you saying that IMDB genre assignments are wrong? That's it. Going to bed.

In some cases, most defintely. Again, do you honestly believe there hasn't been a noir film in 47 years because IMdb says there hasn't? 'Cause I can tell you a lot of film critics and makers will disagree with you.

Sleep tight.

Are you two still at it?

Quoted from Death Monkey Sorry, but that's pretty uneducated. Personal preference is fine, but saying that the genre is outdated and every script sounds the same is just wrong. Case in point: A Touch of Evil VS the Big Sleep VS China Town VS Angel Heart VS Dark City VS Sunset Boulevard VS Sin City. If you don't want to participate, fine, but the entire cross-armed pouting thing is a little childish, I think.

Please don't tell me you consider all those titles to be Film Noir.

The only one even in doubt is Dark City which is clearly leaning more towards sci-fi, but nevertheless has strong elements of the noir style including the visual style and pessimism.

Memento is a film noir. Its just a psycho-noir. Their are various films that are film noirs, its just portrayed differently.

Gabe

This might not even end up being Noir, Rom-com could suddlenly shoot up and take the top spot, just seems like there is one guy who doesn't wanna do a noir piece, but there are a lot of hours left, more votes to be cast so there is no reason for some to get all uptight about it if it's noir.

Quoted from The boy who could fly just seems like there is one guy who doesn't wanna do a noir piece...

Do not forget, Jordan, that this competition is ALSO about reading the scripts of your peers -- not just writing a script then sitting back to collect comments.

Writing a noir might be fun and challenging, but I think people who do not want to read 40 noir scripts have a valid point.

And, I hope ALL of you jokers voting for noir intend to actually read some of the submissions and comment on them.

If you know right now that you have no intention of reading any of these scripts, then please do not submit one!!! This holds true regardless of the final genre.

We will have plenty enough without you, thanks.

It's-- It's noir. Or Neo Noir if you will. But real Film Noir can't be made anyomre, that was ended in the 60's.

Quoted from bert Do not forget, Jordan, that this competition is ALSO about reading the scripts of your peers -- not just writing a script then sitting back to collect comments.

I hope your not suggesting that I'm one of the people that enters and doesn't read any cause that is not the case, I ALWAYS read most of them.

Quoted from The boy who could fly I hope your not suggesting that I'm one of the people that enters and doesn't read any cause that is not the case, I ALWAYS read most of them.

Jordan, how come every time I address you, you think I am yelling at you?

Everybody knows the people I am talking about -- we see a few of them every time -- but with all the people popping out of the woodwork for this newest one, it seemed about time to raise the issue again.

Do not play without reading, folks.  Very, very rude.

Which is unlike Jordan -- although, he can be rude in other ways, I suppose...

[Edit:  I think I shall switch to a nicer avatar today]

I deleted my comments from the last OWC of those that didn't read any. I think there were three.

Weird for Psycho to be brought up, as we just watched it last night.  IMHO, Psycho's about as close as you can get to film noir, without actually being film noir.  These are all shades of grey, no pun intended.  The mood that's struck in Psycho, particularly in the opening scene, is reminiscent of film noir.  The voiceover as Marion Crane drives away, albeit it was not her own voice, only adds to that dark mood.  But it's when I put Psycho up against Double Indemnity, that the distinction becomes clear to me.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Please don't tell me you consider all those titles to be Film Noir.

Fine. I won't tell you.

But I do.

Whoops.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock It's-- It's noir. Or Neo Noir if you will. But real Film Noir can't be made anyomre, that was ended in the 60's.

Why can't be it made anymore? It's a style. It can be used in a variety of genres, and it has been.

So how can a style suddenly not be used anymore, or when it is used we cannot call it noir?

I agree with you Dm, but some people (mainly critics) hold what Daniel is saying to be true.

I think the fact we are voting for the genre here tends to suggest we are not following such a critical hardline.

Quoted from elis Maybe the genre showing the least amount of votes should get chosen.

I’m surprised no one has considered that Don was looking for the least voted for genre all along. That would teach everyone -- haha.

Personally, I like to think I’m up for the challenge whatever it is. I don’t personally like writing Noir but I’m not afraid of it either. If that’s the genre, I’ll do my best. And honestly, a good Noir script will sound great read aloud on iScripts - much better than an Action for example - because the voice overs will be much more conducive to the medium.

I still think Don should go with the least voted, though.


Breanne

I know some critics are very rigid about film-noir, but they're mostly strict conservatives (not the political sense of the word). I know people who make the same claim as Daniel and every time I ask them the question I just posed, they refer me to their film professor who told them. And every time I ask them "Did you ask him why?" they brush me off as if I'm silly to question him/her.

I'm not saying this is the case with Daniel, but just that this has been my experience, and the notion that a style of cinema can only be made within a certain timeframe simply doesn't make sense to me.

You can very legitimately make the claim that the (first) wave of noir is finished, but the style lives on. There are movie that are living proof of that.

Quoted Text I'm not saying this is the case with Daniel, but just that this has been my experience, and the notion that a style of cinema can only be made within a certain timeframe simply doesn't make sense to me.

Nor me. It can't be the time frame that is the crucial thing because otherwise any film from that era would be "film noir" so style and content must at least come into it.

You could argue that the time frame AND content/style are what define Film Noir, but why would you want to make the genre so restrictive?

Besides the content of the films changes substantially from film to film.

No other genre would be considered by such restraints.

Is Resivour Dogs film noir? If so, that's set in the 90's, isn't it?

The thing I always thought was that noir was more of a director's choice, and not really about the story.

If it's between noir and pinot noir, I'd rather have the pinot.

Film Noir is more of an era rather than a genre. And it ended in the late 50's.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir#1950.E2.80.931958

Yes -- if you read it on wikipedia then it must be true.

So what about CHINATOWN? I'd call that a film noir, and yet it was made in the 70s.

BRICK tried to be a film noir, but I think it failed.

Daniel, please quit spewing your opinions like they're fact. Thanks.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Film Noir is more of an era rather than a genre. And it ended in the late 50's. Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir#1950.E2.80.931958

That's one view. One that I contest. An era is defined by the films made in it. There was an era were there were made a lot of film noir movies; this we call the film noir era. If suddenly tomorrow people started making 20 film noirs a year we'd have a new film noir era. So it's reverse logic to say that the era a film is made in defines what type of film it is.

I.e.

It's the film noir era.

We know this because there are a lot of film noir films.

But how do we know a film is film noir?

Because it's made in the film noir era, of course!

...

So what makes a movie distinctively film noir must lie in its substance; its tone, its atmosphere, its plot, its characters, its themes. And can these elements be created today? In any time-period? Absolutely.

Therefore (don't make me QED ;)) film noir must be a style, and if it's a style it can be recreated, and it has been.

So, this is why I find the notion that film noir cannot be made any longer ludicrous.

Quoted from Death Monkey So what makes a movie distinctively film noir must lie in its substance; its tone, its atmosphere, its plot, its characters, its themes. And can these elements be created today? In any time-period? Absolutely. Therefore (don't make me QED ;)) film noir must be a style, and if it's a style it can be recreated, and it has been. So, this is why I find the notion that film noir cannot be made any longer ludicrous.

Yes, but (I don't know why) they don't call it film noir no more.

Just repeating what I've heard from bigger film noir fans than myself.

And also, I heard from a bigger expert than me on IMDb when I asked the same question, no, Chinatown isn't Film Noir but neo noir 'cause it's in color and not made in the era.

Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is.

A list of neo noirs from IMDb sorted from A-Z:

http://www.imdb.com/keyword/neo-noir/?sort=alpha

You'll notice that Chinatown is on it along with Dark City, Sin City, Reservoir Dogs and Angel Heart.

And a list of film noirs if you're interested:

The best
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/average-vote

The rest (hehe)
http://www.imdb.com/List?genres=Film-Noir&&tv=on&&heading=10;Film-Noir&&nav=/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/include-titles

I went through them all and I couldn't find a single one made later than 1958. It is possible though that we're missunderstanding each other and I'm reffering to "classic film noir".

Oh, and by the way, don't be insulting or sarcastic, ABSteel, we're having a discussion, we're not 10.

What difference does it make if it's classic or neo?

I don't think it matters.

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is.

Oh, Lord -- don't even get me started on that one....

It is all semantics anyway.  Potato, potahto.  There is no definitive resolution to be found here.

Yet another reason film noir would be a less than ideal genre -- every single script thread will have one guy going, "This isn't noir!" and another guy going, "Sure it is!"

Quoted from Alfred Hitchcock Yes, but (I don't know why) they don't call it film noir no more. Just repeating what I've heard from bigger film noir fans than myself. And also, I heard from a bigger expert than me on IMDb when I asked the same question, no, Chinatown isn't Film Noir but neo noir 'cause it's in color and not made in the era. Wikepedia may not be dependable but IMDb is. A list of neo noirs from IMDb sorted from A-Z: http://www.imdb.com/keyword/neo-noir/?sort=alpha You'll notice that Chinatown is on it along with Dark City, Sin City, Reservoir Dogs and Angel Heart. And a list of film noirs if you're interested: The best http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/average-vote The rest (hehe) http://www.imdb.com/List?genres=Film-Noir&&tv=on&&heading=10;Film-Noir&&nav=/Sections/Genres/Film-Noir/include-titles I went through them all and I couldn't find a single one made later than 1958. It is possible though that we're missunderstanding each other and I'm reffering to "classic film noir". Oh, and by the way, don't be insulting or sarcastic, ABSteel, we're having a discussion, we're not 10.

Why do you feel Imdb is dependable when Wikipedia is not? Neither is peer-reviewed. Imdb does not supply the reader with information about who the contributors are, the reason for genre-choice and whether or not it's disputed. this is not the make of a reliable source.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of good intel on Imdb, but we must question any opinion or verdict that's not backed up by evidence. Especially when there are conflicting takes on this out there.

For instance in Joan Copjec's Shades of Noir the style or genre is retheorized and it examines the boundaries of film noir in modern cinema because it asks: Is film noir merely a body of work or is it a style with specific elements?

If you've got access to JSTOR you can read a resume/review of it here:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0015-1386%28199423%2948%3A1%3C57%3ASONAR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-7

Calling something neo-noir is often just a way of saying a film is film noir but not from the era film noir was flourishing. Now since film noir is an option is this poll, and we don't live in 1958, whatever scripts we write in this style will be neo-noir by this definition.

However, neo-noir is still film-noir. Just like retro-punk is still punk.

My point is, instead of just saying "well my professor/"film noir film friend"says so, so that's it, we should question why, and if there are no ready answers then maybe the definition is wrong.

Quoted from bert Oh, Lord -- don't even get me started on that one.... It is all semantics anyway.  Potato, potahto.  There is no definitive resolution to be found here. Yet another reason film noir would be a less than ideal genre -- every single script thread will have one guy going, "This isn't noir!" and another guy going, "Sure it is!"

That's a valid concern. I think film noir entails a heap of trouble for these and other reasons.

Don't blame me. I voted for thriller.

Quoted from Death Monkey That's a valid concern. I think film noir entails a heap of trouble for these and other reasons.

I voted for rom/com. Don't ask me why, though, haven't a clue. Maybe I thought it'd be a challenge, or simply a change. What ever the case, I agree with those who believe 40 noir scripts would be difficult to sludge through; something similar to a throbing toothache -- one that never ends. But therein lies the challenge!

Truth be told, it'll be, for me anyway, easier to read than write. I, like many others, havent a clue what the genre (if it is a genre) entails. I've read a couple noir scripts here on the boards and felt guilty that I didn't know what to look for in terms of style.

As for Wikipedia, c'mon, it's not that bad. It is, in fact, peer reviewed -- not in a scientific sense, but if I, for example, look up Søren Kierkegaard and it says he was an atheist, I can cite sources, his own writing, and correct it. Is it perfect? No. But it is a great starting point. If you're a student, you're told not to use Wikipedia, but everyone does, not as a source, but as a starting point. A link to sources; credible ones.

Seth

100+ SS shorts start with...

INT. PRIVATE DICK'S OFFICE - NIGHT

Lit only by a banker's lamp on the desk.

DICK, disheveled, drunk, flips a snub nose .38 on the desk.  A P.I. badge follows.

DICK (V.O.): My usual work involved taking pictures of a spouse banging a spouse that didn't belong to them. So I never had an occasion to use heat; until that night.

A KNOCK at the door draws his attention.

The door opens and a SULTRY BRUNETTE enters; tight dress to the knees, loose blouse unbuttoned enough so show fantastic cleavage.

DICK (V.O.): And that night was looking to get a little more dangerous before it was over.

SULTRY BRUNETTE: You Big Dick?

DICK: Depends on who's askin'

Brunette pulls out a cigarette and two-fingers it to her lipsticked kisser.

SULTRY BRUNETTE: Gotta' a light for me? Dick?

So everyone that voted Film Noir wants to read 600 (40x15) pages of the above?  Just want to make sure.  Wouldn't want you to have voted and then not read any of the scripts.  But, of course, none of you would do that now -- would you? I expect to see at least 24 reviews of each film noir script.

And welvis, who just joined us today and made a beeline to this thread before he even verified his email address, and ScarFace who has a 0 post count but has been with us for a while  - this will be a good chance to participate in the community, get your name out there and increase your post count.  (I won't tell you what they voted for because this is a secret ballot).  I'll be watching for your posts.

Come to think of it, I would have preferred Mystery in stead. I've never written a mystery short before and I really like the genre.

It's always the one you suspect the least!

Quoted from randyshea 100+ SS shorts start with... INT. PRIVATE DICK'S OFFICE - NIGHT Lit only by a banker's lamp on the desk. DICK, disheveled, drunk, flips a snub nose .38 on the desk.  A P.I. badge follows. DICK (V.O.): My usual work involved taking pictures of a spouse banging a spouse that didn't belong to them. So I never had an occasion to use heat; until that night. A KNOCK at the door draws his attention. The door opens and a SULTRY BRUNETTE enters; tight dress to the knees, loose blouse unbuttoned enough so show fantastic cleavage. DICK (V.O.): And that night was looking to get a little more dangerous before it was over. SULTRY BRUNETTE: You Big Dick? DICK: Depends on who's askin' Brunette pulls out a cigarette and two-fingers it to her lipsticked kisser. SULTRY BRUNETTE: Gotta' a light for me? Dick?

I guess this means that you'd have to write something different.

It sucks to be original!


Phil

I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with film noir when it is tied up with Thriller.

Quoted from tomson Just look at this thread. We don't even seem to be able to agree on what Film Noir is. How many people will actually be able to write one besides Phil?    ;D

If it's film noir, then I'm definitely in!

Everyone who votes for film noir as the genre will get a shiny new nickel...

Just as soon as I convince Don to give all you people a shiny new nickel.


Vote early.  Vote often.


Phil

Film Noir right here: http://www.filmsite.org/filmnoir.html

Quoted Text Important Note: Strictly speaking, film noir is not a genre, but rather the mood, style, point-of-view, or tone of a film. It is also helpful to realize that 'film noir' usually refers to a distinct historical period of film history - the decade of film-making after World War II, similar to the German Expressionism or the French New Wave periods. However, it was labeled as such only after the classic period - early noir film-makers didn't even use the film designation (as they would the labels "western" or "musical"), and were not conscious that their films would be labeled noirs

Just thought I'd toss that grenade on to the thread. ;D

I just wrote a Noir so I think that well has run dry for me but we'll see.  It was fun, for sure but there are alot of cliches to sidestep as well.  It's the kind of thing that can easily slip into satire or become a spoof.

I'm actually more interested in what the theme will be.  I think that will have a bigger impact on whether I'm able to participate or not.  I get the feeling by the way Don's toying with us that it's going to quite 'out there'.

Quoted from dogglebe I guess this means that you'd have to write something different. It sucks to be original! Phil

lol, i would do my level best.

is not film noir how it's shot as much as how it is written? to decscribe moonlight coming through half open blinds, cutting through layers of cigarette smoke,... in 15 pages would take some time to get down the feel of film noir as far as shooting goes, then get story in there, too.

couldn't a script be shot film noir when it was not originally intended to be film noir? i read pulp fiction several years ago and never got the impression it was film noir, but it is classified as film noir. then i saw it. wouldn't call it film noir then, either. in the same research on recent film noir, blade runner was listed, but i didn't get that from the script. rachael smokes like a chimney in blade runner, but it's not written that way. same as when leon was interviewed in the beginning. so the way blade runner was produced made if more film noir than how it was written. i know it's not all gumshoes, but it would be a tough one to be sure. i'm up for it, good or bad.

The genre is Thriller.  Go visit http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-OWC0807/m-1185675791/ to find out the theme and such:

Don