Clichées we all should avoid.

http://movies.aol.com/worst-movie-cliches/action

I once started a word document, listing a number of dramatic clichées I would never use in a script, and when I saw this link today I thought it'd be appropriate to start a thread on.

List of clichées I vow never to use:

Here, take this medalion/bracelet/lucky arrowhead my father gave me.
I hate this one. Somehow in movies key characters always find the time to give their love-interest (or a whiny child) a token of their love in the form of a lucky charm that’s gonna ”protect them”. And the other character always goes: ”No, I can’t take that! Your father/dead wife/native american grandmother gave you that!” to which the giver replies ”Hold on to it for me, you can give it back to me later" or something along those lines.

Also it's worth noting that often this charm doesn't bring that good luck as the wearer often ends up dead.

Tell my wife I love her…
When minor characters die (especially in war movies) they always want someone to tell their wife or kids that they love them and the scene always goes like this:

DYING SOLDIER
Tell my wife I love her…

OTHER SOLDIER
You’re gonna tell her that yourself! You hear me! I won’t let you die on me! Damnit Charlie!

For once I would like a dying person to own up to something really embarrassing on his deathbed. Like:

DYING SOLDIER
Tell Jimmy I cut the cheese that time in the elevator….he’ll know what it means…

OTHER SOLDIER
You’re gonna tell him that yourself! You hear me! I won’t let you die on me! Damnit Charlie!

The Deus ex Machina gunshot.
This is one of the most common ones and kinda difficult to completely avoid. The hero wrestles on the floor with the bad guy over control of the gun/knife/bomb-remote and the bad guys gets the upper hand. He’s just about to strike an ice-pick into the heart of the defenseless hero when…BANG! A previously assumed dead character stands in the background with a loaded gun. This one really irks me when I see it.

The Rookie gets it.
Very prevalent in cop-movies. The fresh eager recruit on the force joins our heroes against the baddies. And you just know his tenacious naiveté is gonna get him killed. If we get a backstory on him then very often he’s just been engaged to his high-school sweetheart or a baby’s on the way.

I’ve never taken anyone to this place before…
Here’s one from romantic comedies especially. Every Freddy Prinze Jr. flick has one of these moments. He’s on a date with his love-interest and he takes her to this amazing remote and magical place like a secluded orchard where he ”used to look at constellations and try to figure out the world” and he’s NEVER EVER taken anyone there before.
It can be anything from an art studio to a garden by the sea. Just something than emphasizes how emotionally profound the lead character is. Even though he’s Freddy Prinze Jr.

All girls know karate.
Man, I hate this one. Not that I mind girls who know karate (that’s hot), but I hate how every single girl in an action movie can do a round house kick or throw Kiai’s left and right. This is probably a reaction to the timid female stereotypes of the past, but come on, let’s not go overboard. According to movies, you can’t be a good female cop unless you know martial arts, ’cause that’s the only way you can ’make it in a MAN’S world’. I would like to see more women throw sucker punches or head-butt (old) people.

All Asians know karate.
Well…pretty self-explanatory.

The hero gets shot in a non-vital body-part.
The hero has to get injured somehow so we get a whiff of death, a sense that he almost didn’t make it. This is accomplsihed by shooting or stabbing the hero in the shoulder or the thigh or the arm or any place that stings like hell but doesn’t kill you.

Add more.

Hehe good ones.

How about,

Hey, we're a bunch of horny teens, let's go to an isolated cabin in the woods where we can get drunk and have sex, and then go out into the woods and look for a guy with a machete and a hockey mask.
I don't know...Over the top?

Quoted from sniper

Too obvious, isn't it?

That's so original! I think I'll use that for my next movie play!

~Zack~

Quoted from Zack

That's so original! I think I'll use that for my next movie play!

~Zack~

The cliche that annoys me most is....

Oh, I've just been bitten on by a zombie, but I'm not going to tell the small group of slow-witted people I'm traveling with because then they will kill me. I'll just wait until I'm a zombie, they'll find out then.

Ugh. Who thought of that? >:(

Matt.

Quoted from chism

Haha, I'd probably be just as selfish. If not telling anyone gives me life for a couple hours more, then that's a small price to pay. For me, that is. Screw the others. I'm not gonna take one for the team.

Quoted from Death Monkey

Hmmmm, that actually a good point.

If you wanna survive a zombie movie then your best bet is to be one of the zombies.

You just can't kill em all. 8)

Also gotta side with Rob on the above. Nothing gets me in the mood for sex, drugs and booze more than imminent slaughterings.

Matt.

Quoted from sniper

Hey, we're a bunch of horny teens, let's go to an isolated cabin in the woods where we can get drunk and have sex, and then go out into the woods and look for a guy with a machete and a hockey mask.

Why didn't anyone tell that to [hack]Eli Roth?[/hack]

Because they knew Eli Roth wouldn't make such a movie, duh!

~Zack~

How about the not so ugly girl makeover into a not so much prettier girl?

... But he did! CABIN FEVER is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Cliche, after cliche, after cliche, not to mention bad script, acting, directing, special effects... everything. And the actors weren't even that cute. If the actors had been cuter, it might've been better... maybe.

(So I just realized that CABIN FEVER doesn't involve a man with a hockey mask, but the kids are still attacked by something. It's all the same to me.)

Cabin Fever was a brilliant fim made on a low budget. You are aware that the movie is NOT to be taken seriously... aren't you?

~Zack~

Brilliant? HA!

It's trash.

Cabin Fever (I've never seen it) was filmed at a Boy Scout Summer camp place I went to a few years ago. When I was out taking a class, they took us to the cabin they used for outside shots.

-Chris

That's cool.
Save your time and money, though. That doesn't make it any better.

Cabin Fever is good campy fun. It has everything a good horror film should, sex, drugs, gore, pokes at the genre, and suspense. Eli Roth is one of the most promising young horror directors out there, and his first horror film will always be remembered.

~Zack~

Okay, Zack likes Cabin Fever, Steel doesn't.

Can we get back on topic?

A lonely guy tries to make girls like him by trying to impress them with a whole bunch of stupid crap. He fails, but then actually gets a girl when he stops trying and decides to be himself. :X

What about the slashers that play out like pro-abstinence films? You know. Have sex and you're going to get slashed.

Police interrogation scenes involving good cop/bad cop and/or references to good cop/bad cop by the person being interrogated, CGI, slow motion, and 90% of horror movie cliches (I'd say about 10% actually work).

If any character in an Action or Horror movie shows a picture of his "two little kids" or his "little sweetheart back home", it is 100% guaranteed he will die at some point in the movie.

--Julio

Quoted from ReaperCreeper

If any character in an Action or Horror movie shows a picture of his "two little kids" or his "little sweetheart back home", it is 100% guaranteed he will die at some point in the movie.

--Julio

Good one.

Also in horror films the jokester/prankter/jester of the group always gets it real nasty.

They did do Cherry Falls where you only got killed if you didn't have sex. Although that could've been a whole lot better.

Eurgh you just can't win. In one movie you have too much sex and you die. In another you don't have enough sex and you die. Ideally you wanna be having so much sex that you're not actually having any. That'll baffle the deranged psycho killers who are after you based on your sexual proclivity. ;D

Matt.

In jail, there must be a brutal guard and an evil scheming warden.

And all the gay inmates!

Don't forget your white trash prison rapist and token religious Latino cellmate.

I also think it's safe to say sex alone is a horror movie cliche, let alone sex amongst preppy brats who deserve to die. Reference to and/or poking fun at the whole have-sex-and-you-die cliche (ala Cherry Falls) is also a cliche. Really, the whole genre is haemorrhaging T&A, both literally and figuratively.

Has anyone ever turned the horror clichés inside out? For example having the sexually active teen girl live and overcome the evil, whilst the frigid ones die?

Let’s face it, it's not really the sexually active girls these horror writers hate, it's the ones that are sexual, but aren't sexual with them.

You could also have someone wander out into the woods on their own, whilst everyone in the cabin gets killed. That sort of thing.

Quoted from Takeshi

Has anyone ever turned the horror clichï¿½s inside out? For example having the sexually active teen girl live and overcome the evil, whilst the frigid ones die?

Letï¿½s face it, it's not really the sexually active girls these horror writers hate, it's the ones that are sexual, but aren't sexual with them.

You could also have someone wander out into the woods on their own, whilst everyone in the cabin gets killed. That sort of thing.

They turned the "have sex and you die" clichÃ© inside out in Cherry Falls, but look how that turned out.

I've never seen that one, Death Monkey. In fact I've never heard of it.
But my guess is that it probably failed because the story and characters were rubbish. Even if you turn the clichés inside out, you'd still need a decent story for it to be any good; you couldn't just rely on the gimmick.

Yeah plus the thing went through a lot of shit with the censors and ended up pretty watered down as I remember it.

I haven't seen it since it came out though so I don't remember it too well.

Man oh man, I could list the clichee' list down to the end of this page, but I just got a few that irk me bigtime.

1.  A group of terrorists steal a warhead and threaten to use it in American Homelands.
You know, that's happened so much that I'm starting to think that the U.S. MAY want to hide their warheads better, or protect them better.  The warhead scheme is so bland, I must admit I used this dull plot before, until it hit me how clichee' it was.

2.  The mad pyronatic.
It's probably unavoidable, because anyone who uses a flamethrower is probably a nut job.  It's sad that you never see a regular antagonist who can use the flamethrower.

3.  The women being all these strong willed fighters, Die Hard 4, Charlies Angels, etc, beating down on the guys.  Now pardon me if I sound sexist saying this, but why is it that the women always have to look so tough, especially when THEY'RE always the damsels in distress, or the girls getting kidnapped or raped?  It makes you really feel that the guy getting his ass kicked by the chick is really a fruitcake.  I just don't like that.

4.  The prison guards always being corrupt or evil.
It's so old, yet you see it everywhere.  The Longest Yard, Prison Break, Simpsons, Face-off, and such.

5.  The badguy finally pulls out his gun, and his ammo is dry.
Wouldn't you think that it's always a bit inconvenient that just when the badguy is about to win, he is always negligent enough to let his ammo be empty?

Here are a few of my pet peeve clichés that I don’t believe have been mentioned yet:

1) The Tough At First And Helpless Later Chick - I hate when a woman is tough enough to beat up a man in the beginning and then later becomes the damsel in distress. Is she tough or not? I can’t think of all of them right off hand but the one that pops into my mind at the moment is Robin Hood - the Kevin Costner one. At the beginning Maid Marian is such a good sword fighter that she nearly whips Robin’s butt and then at the end the villain easily subdues her - far easier than it would be to subdue an ordinary woman. She helplessly and futilely struggles against the villain throughout the entire last third of the movie - until Robin comes to save her. It was two totally different women. They should have credited Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio with two roles - Marian I and Marian II.

2) The One Punch Knockout - very seldom does a person just hit someone once and completely knock them out - but not in Hollywood! In Hollywood, a hero can one punch knockout anyone until the final showdown when he suddenly has to hit people fifty times to do any damage.

3) The Head Twist Kill - I’m so sick and tired of the scene where the Navy seal or whatever just loosely twists a guy’s head to the cracking sound of his neck and the guy just instantly drops dead. It’s like it replaced the old time double fisted knockout ala Captain Kirk. It’s so silly.

4) The Army Of Soldiers Or Police Who Can’t Hit the Hero No Matter How Many Times They Shoot - I’m sorry but some movies have a hero who gets into a shootout with the police or military and then decides to make a run from one spot to another. Despite the fact they’re under an intense nonstop barrage of gunfire from people who regularly practice shooting weapons, suddenly no one on the entire force is a good shot. I mean, honestly, someone would hit the guy by sheer accident.

5) The Man From Atlantis - the guy who can breathe underwater indefinitely. Not only can he hold his breath for elongated periods of time but he can also do strenuous physical labor! He can swim half a mile underwater, break through some metal gate to some underwater tunnel, and disarm a bomb or whatever all while holding his breath. Honestly, why don’t they just have him fight off a shark with his bare hands while he’s down there. Maybe he can use his one punch knockout.

Breanne

Quoted from Breanne Mattson

2) The One Punch Knockout - very seldom does a person just hit someone once and completely knock them out - but not in Hollywood! In Hollywood, a hero can one punch knockout anyone until the final showdown when he suddenly has to hit people fifty times to do any damage.

What about when the hero takes on gangs of people. While he's busy with one gang member the rest of the gang stand around waiting for their turn to be beaten up.
The only time I've ever seen this scenario look believable was in the Korean film Oldboy, because the hero was fighting a gang inside a narrow corridor and they could only come at him one or two at a time.

I'm so with you on #4. We watched something a few nights ago... but I can't remember what it was. It's so annoying.

I like the story about the Hot Dog Vendor who sells to a Zen master.  The Zen Master says, "Make me one with everthing." And then he hands the vendor a twenty dollar bill.  The vendor promptly puts away the twenty, closes the till and the Zen master then says, "Hey, where's my change?"  And the Vendor's reply is "Change must come from within."

You've probably heard that one.  But consider this: When was the first time you heard it?  Were you six years old?  Twelve perhaps?  Or did you only first hear it in your teens?

The truth is that things which are cliche to you; even if they are very cliche as a whole, are very new to the next generation.

I mentioned in a different post that I don't watch too much T.V. anymore.  It's an age thing I said.  Why?  Because I've seen it.  The formula, the stale routines... but that doesn't mean that someone else can't enjoy it.

The thing is, when it comes right down to it: life is cliche.  It's recycled.  Over and over again.  The goodness that we take in and the badness that we spit out.  All cliche.  And we'de like to think our ideas are wonderfully original, but at the moment we're dreaming something up, someone else is having that very same thought too, or has had already, many years before even.

Maybe we're all drawing from the same great melting pot and some of us have a bigger spoon.

Blessings,
Sandra

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

The thing is, when it comes right down to it: life is cliche. It's recycled. Over and over again. The goodness that we take in and the badness that we spit out. All cliche. And we'de like to think our ideas are wonderfully original, but at the moment we're dreaming something up, someone else is having that very same thought too, or has had already, many years before even.

Yes and no. I wrote a script about a guy whose identity changed every time he changed the avatar on his computer. No one could've written that thirty years ago. Sure there have been stories about people changing their identity via: disguise, magic etc, but I've never come across another story where someone has changed their appearance by changing their avatar. So it's still possible to be original to some degree.

Quoted from Takeshi

Indeed, at least it seems that way; but I'm inclined now to be very suspicious of the fleeting quality of things--so much so that I don't think you can really trust the way you "think" things are.  Take any adult and ask them to be a child again and they can't do it.  What have they lost?  What has changed?

Writers are part of a group that make their bread and butter through the imagination so it's important to consider its properties.

What's an avatar?  Maybe you and I are avatars.

My question to you would be: Was your work conceived by you or revealed to you?  Either way, if the possibility existed, the possibility existed and it was born out of preexisting knowledge which came before you or I came along.

I wonder if someone might have considered avatars in their conscious thirty years ago?  Why not?  Maybe the general population didn't, but where did all of this spring from?  Maybe avatars were contemplated by the creators of ENIAC.  Who knows?

We live in a paradox.  What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Like the Sunscreen song goes:

"...whatever you do don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either, your choices are half chance..."

And I'm just fueling discussion here so...

"Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who
supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of
fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the
ugly parts and recycling it for more than
it’s worth.

But trust me on the sunscreen…"

Baz Luhrmann

Isn't it hard to think outside of the box when you're trapped inside?

Sandra

I'm glad this thread resurfaced cuz I just thought of another cliche. How about every sports movie ever made?

An "avatar" is defined as:

1. The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.
2. An embodiment, as of a quality or concept; an archetype: the very avatar of cunning.
3. A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity: occultism in its present avatar.

(c) Dictionary.com

I don't know when the term "avatar" became intertwined with the Internet.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

My question to you would be: Was your work conceived by you or revealed to you? Either way, if the possibility existed, the possibility existed and it was born out of preexisting knowledge which came before you or I came along.

Who knows?

A writer once said: "When I write, it's like my hand is being driven by a force other than my own and I'm not creating something new, but revealing something that was already there".

It was an interesting comment, but I reckon there's a fine line between mysticism and psychosis.

Aha!

Someone is taking the time to go deep inside the rabbit hole.

Not so new after all.  I guess Webster learned everything he needed to know from ancient Sanskrit.

Mr. Steel, this is an example of the kind of thing that goes waaay back... like everything else.  Good detective work.  How about those ancient flying machines?

Anyways James,

I always love sports movies.  Two come to mind right now: "Invincible" based on the true story of Vince Papale and the latest "Rocky."  And I asked myself, how come I enjoyed it AGAIN?  I don't know, but I did.

Sandra

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

Not so new after all. I guess Webster learned everything he needed to know from ancient Sanskrit.

I used to love Emmanuel Lewis when I was a kid. But I don't remember the Sanskrit episode.

I do remember a pretty old TV show, about a girl who lives on this island and she has a pet whale (named Charlie, if you were wondering). There was also this underwater city, and two, or three, of the kids would visit her during their free time.

It was revealed that her island had grown over this space ship, and she was an ALIEN.

Now, when LOST came around, and they revealed that there was something underground, all I could think about was that show.

Been there, done that. Moving on...

I have no idea what the older TV show was, though.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

My question to you would be: Was your work conceived by you or revealed to you?

This is an interesting question. I believe in the old adage, "write something only you could write. I think -- I like to think, anyway -- that I acomplished just that with Forepaughs. Is it original? Completely original? No; nothing is.

Did I conceive it? Perhaps, but it felt as though it was revealed to me, by way of life experiences. I could not have written it had I not had the experiences I did. It's personal.

As for cliches, some of them work ... I think MGJ mentioned this once. People are familiar with them, they like that which is familiar. The one I like is, boy meets girl (or vice versa), boy loses girl, boy wins girl back. In such movies I know how it's going to end, still, I enjoy the ride -- if the ride is interesting.

Seth

Quoted from Takeshi

I used to love Emmanuel Lewis when I was a kid. But I don't remember the Sanskrit episode.

Did he have anything to do with the "New World" edition?  So much to read, so little time.

King James, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Second Resurrection of Harry Potter, Roget's Lost Thesaurus, (probably near the burial grounds of Edmontosaurus) the next installment of "Books for Dummies"...

Are we still talking cliches here?

Worst cliches... Hmmm... tap tap tap tap...

Got to be one here somewhere.  Looking underneath cushions... out the window... "Hey, excuse me, you sir, with the large tattoos of snakes and skeletons on your arms... yes you, walking that adorable little pit-bull, can you think of any cliches right off?  No? Oh sorry to bother you.  Carry on then.  Righto.  What?  Do I have a light?  Oh sure, let me just see if I have batteries for my flashlight... Oh, silly me.  You mean fire!  For your cigarette.  Let me just check my handy dandy cadet survival kit I have in my handy dandy keep it handy drawer.  There you go sir."

He's big.  Really big.  About a foot and a half taller than me.  He's wearing black leather and chains and as I light his cigarette, the wind blows it out.  I try again.  The wind blows it out again.  Ok, truth be told, I blew it out.

"You know," I say, "That's probably a sign from God.  You really should give it up.  It's bad for your health and all."

"You mocking me?" He seems a little stressed due to the fact that his smoke's off schedule."

"Why no.  It''s just that... giggle-giggle... those black boots, your goatee, and that do-rag... you're kidding right?"

"No."

"And your dog's name is probably Harley and you belong to one of those show and shine groups."

"How'd you guess?"

I finally decide to light his cigarette.

"Just one of those things.  That's what happens when you go looking for cliches."

"Thanks for the light."

"Oh you're so welcome, what's your name?  Sue?  Well! I never would have guessed that."

Ok that never happened.  Still, I found a cliche.  A real one.

Sandra

Ok that didn't happen, but let's face it.  Even when we run into

Sandra

I always do that. Double lines...

What's going on with this...

I know what it is... It's virtual stuttering.

Or maybe...

I went for a long walk with Sue and Harley and forgot where I left off.

Sandra

Since this thread began, 17 remakes have been greenlighted by studios.

Okay, I'm making that up, but I wouldn't be surprised that it's true.

My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.

Not that I'm against either side. I have a habit of working in tired genres/themes, but I still try to have some semblance of originality in my work, if only a shred.

On the other side, I have no problem writing an assignment for just about anything that's throw at me when given the opportunity. It is where most screenwriters earn their living after all.

Quoted from Shelton

Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with paying the bills, just so long as you know that when you use a cliché it affects the quality of your work, regardless of what people are paying you.

This thread is about our integrity as writers, not the pragmatics of clichées in the business. Clichées can become necessary if you are, as you say, assigned to do something, but that doesn't mean it's good writing.

Besides it's possible to write a remake without clichées.

Quoted from Shelton

That's great if you're given an assignment -- yes, take the money (hope you don't attach your name to it). But to conclude that those of us partaking in this thread are wasting our time while "Hollywood" busies itself making crap films, is, I think, elitist. Some of us don't want to make crap films.

Seth

Quoted from Sandra Elstree.

Worst cliches... Hmmm... tap tap tap tap...

Got to be one here somewhere.  Looking underneath cushions... out the window... "Hey, excuse me, you sir, with the large tattoos of snakes and skeletons on your arms... yes you, walking that adorable little pit-bull, can you think of any cliches right off?  No? Oh sorry to bother you.  Carry on then.  Righto.  What?  Do I have a light?  Oh sure, let me just see if I have batteries for my flashlight... Oh, silly me.  You mean fire!  For your cigarette.  Let me just check my handy dandy cadet survival kit I have in my handy dandy keep it handy drawer.  There you go sir."

He's big.  Really big.  About a foot and a half taller than me.  He's wearing black leather and chains and as I light his cigarette, the wind blows it out.  I try again.  The wind blows it out again.  Ok, truth be told, I blew it out.

"You know," I say, "That's probably a sign from God.  You really should give it up.  It's bad for your health and all."

"You mocking me?" He seems a little stressed due to the fact that his smoke's off schedule."

"Why no.  It''s just that... giggle-giggle... those black boots, your goatee, and that do-rag... you're kidding right?"

"No."

"And your dog's name is probably Harley and you belong to one of those show and shine groups."

"How'd you guess?"

I finally decide to light his cigarette.

"Just one of those things.  That's what happens when you go looking for cliches."

"Thanks for the light."

"Oh you're so welcome, what's your name?  Sue?  Well! I never would have guessed that."

Ok that never happened.  Still, I found a cliche.  A real one.

Sandra

Salute. ;)

Quoted from Seth

But to conclude that those of us partaking in this thread are wasting our time

I'd really like to know where you saw me say that you or anybody else is wasting their time.

And elitist?  Ummm...yeah.

EDIT:  To stay on topic and make sure we're not derailed into an argument ove r a misunderstanding of what I said, here's another one.

Two people meet by bumping into each other...literally.

I'm guilty of this one, actually.  Twice.

Quoted from Shelton

I'd really like to know where you saw me say that you or anybody else is wasting their time.

And elitist? Ummm...yeah.

Quoted from Shelton

My point is, that we're sitting here talking about what is and isnt cliche, and killing ourselves to come up with material that has some semblance of originality when the business is currently in this state and probably will be for quite some time.

The above comment, in my opinion, suggests that "the business" is, and will, for some time, continue to make crap films. This is, no doubt, true. Still, I see no reason to simply go along -- to play the game.

I wrote 'elitist' because your comments implied that you were above such questions.

Seth

True, but after I said that the business will probably be this way for quite some time, I also said that I try to have some aspect of originality in my work no matter what it is.

I was simply looking at it from both sides. Trust me, every time I see a trailer for a remake I cringe because I think there are way better unproduced scripts out there, and most remakes are bad anyway. I was just offering a different viewpoint.

I could understand the comment about me being above such questions if I hadn't participated in the thread a few days ago (Jails have corrupt wardens and brutal guards)

Quoted from Shelton

Mike,

I think I was venting my frustration with the business (I over-reacted to your comments). You're right, you do have to look at it from both sides. And, really, if you want to make a living writing screenplays, you have to take the good with the bad.

Seth

Quoted from Seth

Mike,

I think I was venting my frustration with the business (I over-reacted to your comments).

It happens.

Quoted from Seth

You're right, you do have to look at it from both sides. And, really, if you want to make a living writing screenplays, you have to take the good with the bad.

I read a great article about this not long ago. I think it was written by Bill Martell, but it basically laid out how even though you may be working on assignment for a turd of a story, you should still always try and put your best work into it. His example was John Sayles, who had written the screenplay for Piranha.

Now supposedly the film wasn't that great, but something showed through from the writing that's helped to give John Sayles a rather prosperous career. (Currently working on Jurassic Park IV...Sorry, guy from the other thread)

It's all a matter of playing the hand you're dealt, but having enough artistic pride to not just do it for the cash.

Here's a cliché I hate:

When, in a paranoid/conspiracy thriller someone accuses someone of being insane/paranoid/crazy this person will always act the MOST crazy while explaining that he's not.

So here's a tip: DON'T scream at the top of your lungs "I'm not crazy! They're coming to kill us all! I'm telling the truth! They're gonna probe you too!" while you lunge at the person you're trying to convince.

Check out A Beautiful Mind for a good example of this.

The mysterious stranger who's actually a friend and not a foe: often we see this in political thrillers; if our protagonist is being stalked by some ominous person, usually in a trenchcoat, inevitably once he/she finally confronts this mystery person, they will turn out to be an ally, usually with some important, top-secret information to give them.

Quoted from mgj

...our protagonist is being stalked by some ominous person, usually in a trenchcoat

HaHaHa. I'm actually thinking of incorporating something like this into a script that I'm working on. It's the same theme, but in a totally different context.

Quoted from Shelton

HaHaHa. I'm actually thinking of incorporating something like this into a script that I'm working on. It's the same theme, but in a totally different context.

I kind of like this cliche actually. It still holds a certain dramatic punch for me. Just whatever you do, don't have him confront this person in an underground parkade. And especially don't make him a smoker.

BTW I'm guilty of this as well except I changed it from a trenchcoat to an ivy cap (the genius that I am).

Some clichés are unavoidable. I’ve learned to look at clichés as having two categories - unnecessary ones and unavoidable ones. For example, politicians and business heads are often villains in movies. And that’s a cliché. But if your plot involves a massive scale event that would require the villain to have a great deal of power to accomplish, it’s unavoidable that the villain has to be a person with the means.

Sometimes your story is moving along and you just get to a spot where there’s no way to move the story forward without a plot device that’s cliché. In other words, there’s a reason why some clichés are clichés and they’re nearly impossible to avoid and still have any story cohesiveness.

I try my best to avoid them at all costs but sometimes it’s simply not feasible - or even possible.

Breanne

Quoted from mgj

Mine isn't dramatic at all. It's more of a play into the cliche.

Cars knocking over a fruit stand during a high speed chase and then knocking it over again just as the fruitier has finished restacking his fruit.

Having the antagonist hiding behind a newspaper while he spies on the protagonist. This is usually revealed to the audience when the protagonist walks out of shot and the antagonist lowers the newspaper.

I just saw Bad Boys again and noticed a huge cliché in buddy flicks. When two buddy cops are cornered by a couple of henchmen with guns on them they will PRETEND to argue and fight which will throw the bad guys off and the buddy cops will then overpower them.

I think Lethal Weapon started this.

I think partners who hate each other are a cliche in any cop/crime movie, whether or not it's a buddy movie.

Quoted from James McClung

I think partners who hate each other are a cliche in any cop/crime movie, whether or not it's a buddy movie.

Well intially they always hate each other, but as time goes by they come to appreciate each others' different outlooks on life blah blah blah.

However, that's not what I was referring to. I mean that moment when the two PRETEND to go at it with each other to throw off the guys holding the gun, and use this momentum to overpower them.

True. I get what you're saying. That cliche is ripe in buddy cop movies. I wouldn't say it's exclusive to the genre but definitely a big part of it. I actually saw the same device in Galaxy Quest the other day with Tim Allen and Alan Rickman pretending to go at it, which is why I say not "exclusive." But yeah, you're definitely right.

yeah it probably branched over into other genres as well. But I mainly remember it from Lethal Weapon, The Last Boyscout and Bad Boys.

That pretend to argue and fight thing kind of harkens back to the old days of slapstick comedy. Stuff like the Three Stooges and Laurel and Hardy. I'm sure that's where it originated from.

Another cliche is when one character eyes someone standing across the street and a large semi passes between them. You just know that person will inexplicably vanish.

out of all of these cliche's listed in the article. I have to say I wouldn't agree with this one:

Quoted Text

'Halloween,' in which that crazy Michael Myers just won't stay dead; every time someone thinks they've finally got him down for the count, they ... stand across the room with their back to him. And what happens? His shadowy body moves, and the chase is on again

Why would you want to check the pulse of someone who has a knife and could still be alive?

The self exploiting minority stereotype.

Cliches?
How about everyone knows how to pick a lock or jump start a car?

Although, for one screenwriting festival I knew Shane Black was one of the judges, so I threw in this scene just for fun...

INT. COP CAR
The cop and the rookie stare up through the front windshield
dumbfounded.  They look back to the street and yell.

EXT. STREETS
The cop car smashes into a large donut truck.

INT. COP CAR
The cop and rookie gather themselves.  Donuts are everywhere.

ROOKIE
This is so cliche.

The cop stares at him.  The motorcycle falls out of the sky
and lands on the hood of the car.  The siren on the car slows
and dies.

COP
I'm getting too old for this sh*t.

ROOKIE
And so is that.

The hooker who is so bored with her job that she checks her watch in the middle of a shag.

Just check this one out guys...

http://www.moviecliches.com

There's one thing I learnt: producers LOVE and DON'T CARE about clichés

Michel 8)

Haha! Some awesome ones in here.

PHONES CLICHÈS

    * All phone numbers begin with 555.

    * People speaking on the phone never introduce themselves, and never ever say "good-bye" at the end of a conversation.

    * When a phone line is broken or someone hangs up unexpectedly, communication channels can be restored by frantically beating the cradle and saying "Hello? Hello?".

    * The Movie Telephone Time Vortex.
      How often have you seen something like this:
      Phone rings. Hero/Heroine picks it up. "Hello. Yes. O.k. Right. Thanks, Goodbye." (Total elapsed time on phone: 5 seconds.)
      Hero/Heroine turns to other character: "That was John. He says that the Marilyn left for the lawyer's office about an hour ago, and she should have been there by now. He's called the lawyer's office but Marilyn apparently never got there. He also called Bill's, thinking she'd stop by there, but Bill hasn't seen her. John says he's going to call Anne, as Marilyn said she and Ann were going to go shopping sometime today. If she's not at Anne's, he's going to call the police. He suggests that we drive over to Mario's and check with him as to whether or not Marilyn told Wally about the statue. However, he thinks this is unlikely as Marilyn doesn't trust Wally, she only trusts us and Fransisco. John also suggests we try to get in touch with Fransisco . . . ."

* On the subject of phones, how about variations of the Bob Newhart-style conversation where we only get to hear one side of the conversation, as in: Marilyn hasn't shown up at the lawyer's office yet? (PAUSE) And you already called Bill's? (PAUSE) What did he say? (PAUSE) He hasn't seen her either. (PAUSE) So, John's getting nervous? (PAUSE) He's going to call the police...
      If I'm not mistaken, the conversation must have gone like this:
      "Marilyn hasn't shown up at the lawyer's office yet."
      "Marilyn hasn't shown up at the lawyer's office yet?"
      "No, and I've already called Bill's."
      "And you already called Bill's?"
      "Yes."
      "What did he say?"
      "He hasn't seen her either."
      "He hasn't seen her either."
      "John's getting pretty nervous about this."
      "So, John's getting nervous?"
      "Yes, he's going to call the police."
      "He's going to call the police..."

lol. That one about the phone is spot on.

Here's couple more....dunno if they've been mentioned:

-If a character is extremely good-willed, so good willed he/she could pass for an angel, he/she will die. Guaranteed. Even if it is the film's protagonist  (Pay it Forward). Or, if the character has a sudden epiphany or something really good happens in his/her life, it about 90% guaranteed that character will die too (Cruel Intentions) or lose a loved one.

-Horror: The toughest-lookin' SOB is always the first to go.

-In movieland, you can meet, fall in love with a girl/guy, and have sex with him/her in a matter of days. And in some other times, even hours, despite the fact that the two characters did not express the least bit of interest in each other at any previous point in the movie. All this while one of the characters had been preaching for the whole movie to "wait for the right person".

-Coughing is an immediate sign of death approaching (Blade).

-Completely evil Villians that have no redeeming qualities are more likely to get away and escape the movie alive (or at least last longer) than the villians who actually show a glimpse of remorse for what they do.

Quoted from Death Monkey

PHONES CLICHÈS

The one I really hate -- but I don't think there is any way around it -- has occurred since the advent of the cell phone.

Every single horror movie or thriller of the last decade -- and from now on, I suppose -- is obligated to include a scene where it is established that thier cell phones are not working.

I just sit there waiting for it -- you know it's coming -- and once that is finally out of the way they can proceed with the story.

I am still trying to figure out something new to do with one of those scenes -- turn it on its ear somehow.

Quoted from bert

I just sit there waiting for it -- you know it's coming -- and once that is finally out of the way they can proceed with the story.

I am still trying to figure out something new to do with one of those scenes -- turn it on its ear somehow.

Make all your characters Amish. :P

Quoted from bert

I think the cell-phone is the single most detrimental invention to screenwriting. This little annoying contraption makes sure your characters are in contact with civilization or law-enforcement where ever they go, UNLESS, as you mention you throw in a clichÃ© about how it's not working or there's no coverage.

Consequently I'm setting all my scripts in the 1980's. A simpler time.

I saw a classic one in ‘We are Marshall’ the other night. Two friends are at the airport and there is only one seat left on the plane, so one can catch the plane and the other has to take a long drive home. They both selflessly offer the plane ride to each other. Eventually one of them accepts. When this happens you always know the plane is going to crash.

The Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord

That pretty much covers it.

Phil

Randomly scanning the thread I saw the reference to 555 phone numbers.

As a sort of an FYI, all telephone numbers used in tv and film are (area code) 555-01XX. Those are the only numbers that are cleared for use by the federal government. It keeps your grandmother in Topeka from being called at 3AM when someone watches an episode of JERICHO.

I think cliches are pretty hard to avoid in trying to write a 90 page script because of act structure.
You have to have a certain criteria to fullfill and it seems cliches are almost as vital as the structure of the script itself when it comes to the crunch.

Its a shame because I reckon a lot of these movies that come out nowadays probably were without all these cliches until it falls into the hands of the producers - who want to rely on the formula that works and X ammount of rewrites then distort the script into just another genre movie.

Just looking at film adaptions of books - it's pretty rare that a movie is better, and possibly because of the time restraints and the structure that a movie needs. It's almost impossible to put an entire book into a film so you need the cliche as a short cut to get the nitty gritty.

Although horror films have a bad rep for cliches, and rightfully so, a lot of them go against the grain. It's probably why I find that genre so interesting because sometimes, the ending is not always a cliche of the good guy coming out victorious.

Quoted from Death Monkey

I was thinking this exact thought this morning, I am currently trying to write an adaptation of a novel that was written in the 70's but set in the near future. No matter how hard I try I just cannot get the story to work knowing what we now know and it is all to do with modern communications technology. it is a fantastic story but the plot just falls apart when you start thinking about mobile phones and the Internet. (The biggest problem with Blade Runner now for instance is the scene where he uses a pay phone!!) The only solutions I have at the moment Is that mobile phones are too expensive for the majority of people to afford or that they have been banned by the government - both ideas too weak.

Anyway my point was that I was watching 'No Country For Old Men' the other day and I marveled at how the Coen brothers dared make a movie with no mobile phones, no internet, no laptops etc.. and thought it would be really great to just pretend these things don't exist. But surely only the Coen brothers could get away with it?

And this morning i found out that the movie was actually set in the 80's, but I have no idea where that comes from because I have seen it twice now and read the script and at no point do i remember ever seeing or hearing a date mentioned - the only thing is that the novel must be set in the 80's so people just assume the movie is.

But it made the movie so much better, so much simpler.

Anyway talking about my current project brings me onto another cliche which i am trying to avoid - All cars in the future must float or fly - none of them can have wheels!!

Quoted from Tierney

That's fascinating. Thanks for the FYI! :)

Quoted from Death Monkey (very first post on this thread)

I’ve never taken anyone to this place before…
Here’s one from romantic comedies especially. Every Freddy Prinze Jr. flick has one of these moments. He’s on a date with his love-interest and he takes her to this amazing remote and magical place like a secluded orchard where he ”used to look at constellations and try to figure out the world” and he’s NEVER EVER taken anyone there before.

True, that is kind of dumb and ridiculous in a screenplay.  But that shit works in real life.  I think I've pulled that on just about every chick I've been with out at my uncle's lake.

One thing, though, as of only lately, that is starting to irk me is in every movie, when somebody says something cool-sounding, but out of character to somebody right before they kill them.

If you do it in real life, I have to admit... It's awesome and works really well.  But it's just sounding forced nowadays in movies.

eg. -  (HERO stares at the beat up VILLAIN on his knees.)    HERO: Step into my office.    VILLAIN: Why?    (HERO holds up his makeshift rubberband coolwhip can and sprays binaca on it.  VILLIAN goes up in flames.)  HERO: Cause you're fired.

Quoted from Murphy

One idea I'm slowly developing involves three people being chased through wine country. I'll be setting it in the mid-seventies so no one has cell phones and the three would be isolated.

Also, the music of the time is so much better.

Phil

Quoted from dogglebe

I'll be setting it in the mid-seventies so no one has cell phones

Crap. I just wrote a story that's set in the mid-70's. I have to go back and take the cell phone out.
Anybody have any ideas now how to rescue a hitchhiker being attacked by the driver?

And speaking of cliche's...

Quoted from rc1107

Anybody have any ideas now how to rescue a hitchhiker being attacked by the driver?

Don't pick up hitchhikers in the '70's, except if they have a six pack of Bud Light along with the bloody chainsaw...

Trucker might have seen something suspicious in the car and CB'd for help...

Saw this one in a movie last night...

Someone who has just escaped a dangerous situation (usually a criminal) drives into an intersection and gets plowed by another car coming "out of nowhere." Look both ways, huh?
I've used the cliche myself, I'm afraid to say.

Oh, and in regards to the cell phone cliche, I'm afraid it doesn't belong in a "Cliches we all shoud avoid" thread. As Death Monkey said, it's quite lame but without it, everyone thinks your characters are idiots and will be removed from the story hence forth. It's a neccesary evil, unfortunately.

Quoted from blakkwolfe

Trucker might have seen something suspicious in the car and CB'd for help...

Nope. Wouldn't work. My hitchhiker's hitchhiking down a windy dirt backroad. Oh yeah, and it's also a cul-de-sac.

Quoted from Tierney

FYI, all telephone numbers used in tv and film are (area code) 555-01XX.

But I have a script about a girl named Jenny-Jenny and it's vital that her phone number that she writes on the bathroom wall be a certain number. Surely the f*ckin' Feds'll let that slide, right?

On a serious note, though. One way I try to get by the horrible 555 situation is just leave one number out. For instance. This is my real phone number. (330) 774-848. Now everybody guess what number to put in where and try to call me. The first person to reach me, I'll give them a hundred bucks. This game's going to be really fun for anybody playing in Austrailia.

- Mark

P.S. - If you do get through to me, I'll give you the hundred dollars whenever I have it.

Quoted from rc1107

But I have a script about a girl named Jenny-Jenny and it's vital that her phone number that she writes on the bathroom wall be a certain number.

Please tell me its not 867-5309...

Quoted from Blakkwolfe

Please tell me its not 867-5309...

I knew a guy in college who got that number from a girl in a bar. Swear to God....

Phil

Quoted from dogglebe

I knew a guy in college who got that number (867-5309) from a girl in a bar

I dated a girl named Jen and her number was 831-0675. All the numbers in 867-5309 except for one number. I asked her if she got that number on purpose and she said never even heard of the song.

And, for the two-fer, she's also one of the girls I took out to my uncle's lake and told her I had never brought anybody else there.

Hey,

I found this Horror Movie Character Survival Guide, it has a whole list of clichées to avoid (mostly if you want to survive a horror flick but some of them should also be avoided by writers).

A couple of my favourites:

- If your children speak to you in Latin or any other language which they do not know, or if they speak using a voice other than their own, shoot them at once. It will save you a lot of grief in the long run. Note: it's unlikely they'll die easy, so be prepared.

- If you're running from the monster, expect to trip or fall down at least twice, more if you are female. Also note that, although you are running and the monster is merely shambling along, it's still moving fast enough to catch up with you.

- When something bad is chasing you, bear in mind that when you try to start your car, no matter how reliable the vehicle is normally, you'll have to crank the engine over many times before it will fire up.

I hate the one where one character is looking for another character, who doesn't want to be found, (usually parents of a teenage runaway) and they'll see them on a busy street, say 100 meters away, and instead of sneaking up on them and catching them, they'll scream out their name giving them ample opportunity to take off.

Heres a cliche that affects the whole format of a films structure

A young child makes best friends with the ghost that haunts the family home.

If you see this cliche in a film you can almost always predict the whole movie.

An example below.

-A young child has an imaginary friend.
"Her name is Nancy, she likes to tell me things"

-The mother becomes worried when the young child begins finding out things they shouldn't know.
"Who told you that Timmy?"

"Nancy did"

"Nancy doesn't exist!"

-Childs friendship with ghost becomes an obsession.

-Spooky clues lead the mother to realise that Nnacy does exist.

-Everyone thinks the mother is crazy.

-The mother eventually interogates the child about the imaginary friend.
"Where does Nancy live Timmy?"

"Stop it! Your making Nancy angry"

-Nancy becomes angry.

-The child is kidnapped/possessed by Nancy which results in the parents having to save the child under creepy circumstances.

There are a few different variations on this structure. They usually fit the above pretty closely though.

The latest film which looks to fit this formula is Mirrors. Have a look at the Redband trailer on youtube.

Quoted from Takeshi

I think in real life one would call out the persons name... how do you know they are running away from you? Maybe they were abducted or suffered from drug problems.

Maybe you could lure them into a car with some nose candy.

Quoted from bert

I liked how they did that in 'Shrooms'. A bit of a change to the normal - no signal. Simply, someone's nicked them! duh duh duh...

I saw this one again last night and was reminded of it...

Two people fighting over a briefcase of money at a high altitude, will always inadvertently open the case and cause the money to fly off every which way.

Sometimes a group of people below scrambles to pick it up, and sometimes not, but either way our two main characters won't be getting one plug nickel.

I just came across an article about the cliches/phrases that Australians find the most annoying.

General:
1. At the end of the day
2. Lets do lunch
3. It's not rocket science
4. 24/7
5. Calling to touch base
6. Bring it on
7. Don’t get me started
8. As you do
9. Tell me about it
10. Your call may be recorded for training purposes

Political:
1. Working families
2. Not ruling anything in or out
3. No magic bullet
4. Can I just say
5. The jury is still out on that one
6. Going forward
7. No brainer
8. Having said that
9. Ballpark figure
10. At this point in time

Work:
1. Push the envelope
2. 110%
3. Think outside the square
4. Hit the ground running
5. Get on the same page
6. Key learnings
7. Fast-track
8. Cutting edge
9. Steep learning curve
10. Let's unpack this

Youth:
1. My bad
2. Random
3. So hot right now
4. Fully sick
5. So over that
6. Oh my gosh
7. Whatever
8. Totally
9. Chillout
10. Whassup

Social:
1. I'm hot
2. Touchdown
3. How's the weather up/down there? (said to a tall/short person)
4. No thanks, I'm sweet enough (said at the offer of sugar with one's tea/coffee)
5. Quote... (said while holding up fingers making quotation marks)
6. Enjoy your trip? (said to someone after a stumble)
7. Oh you shouldn't have! (when someone walks past with flowers/gift)
8. Singing ‘why was he born so beautiful, why was he born at all...’ (after Happy Birthday song)
9. Taxi! (when someone knocks something over)
10. Touch wood (reaching for wooden object or knocking on one's head)

I would've had "warm enough for ya?" (said by people on hot days) in Social.

Source: http://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/at-the-end-of-the-day-australians-just-hate-cliches/story-e6frg3pl-1225826056532

Quoted from Death Monkey

All Asians know karate.

But they do...

;D

An Irish one I heard today but don't say and never will say which bugs me is, top of the morning.

I was never fond of when the antagonist and the protagonist fight for the gun. It goes off and the two stare at each other for several seconds before....

the antagonist falls to the floor.

Phil

The night was humid.

and then a shot rang out!

I love it when politicians use Blair's trick of starting a sentence with the word "look".

They then usually proceed to talk ballocks for five long minutes and refuse to be interrupted.

Sadly they usually never have anything worth listening too. But they do know how to make sure they do my favourite cliche and that's 'fill their boots'. Wonkers.

Any one who dies instantly from a stab wound.

Any woman who falls down in a horror movie.

The gun shot from 200 feet with a snub nose 38. (barnaby jones comes to mind)

400 rounds from any gun that doesn't need reloading.

I could go on and on....

Shawn....><

You can die instantly from a stab wound.

Phil

Splitting hairs are we...;-)

The scene is a struggle between two men...

Of course the woman stands in the background screaming..

They come together...

They look into one anothers eyes in shock..

One man falls with a knife in his stomach...

Dead instantly.

My brother was stabbed six times during an attack and is still kicking. A bit mental, but none the less on this side of the turf.

I was talking of the cleche style of dieing.

Shawn.....><

I'm not reading all these entries to see if this one has been made mention of

But --

I cannot fuggin' stand it when, in every horror movie, a girl has to be the center of the story.  For once... Just once, I'd like to see a strong ass dude,  a bad ass at that, be the focal point.

Imagine a movie where the killer, who's a bad ass, sets his sights on someone who's even badder.  But he don't know it.  And then it's like the killer just made a stupid mistake because he's about to get fucked up.

In every slasher it's always some presumed "weak" girl who turns out to be more cunning than the killer and beats him by way of cat and mouse.  I'd like the Bizarro version, myself.

-Killer
-Bad Ass dude
-no cat and mouse
-Just balls out tooth and nail

And maybe for good measure kill off the would be protag girl at the start to make it a point that this isn't that kind of movie.

End rant.

Quoted Text

Imagine a movie where the killer, who's a bad A**, sets his sights on someone who's even badder. But he don't know it. And then it's like the killer just made a stupid mistake because he's about to get f****d up.

Where've you been, Balt? That's been tried and done many, many times. Sometimes the movie suffers for it and sometimes it makes it better.

Evil Dead II and The Hills Have Eyes (remake) come to mind off the top of my head, and more recently The Midnight Meat Train movie version of Cliver Barker's short story as well as the MoH episode "Family."

Friday 13th pt. 5 and 6 also spring to mind.

But I agree with your general opinion. The "final girl" niche has become one of the most annoying to me in the last few years. "Say hi to mommy..in HELL" during the climax of that terrible F13 remake was the last bit I could take. No more.Although, to that movie's credit, it DID kill off a character that would have survived any other slasher flick.

--Julio

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