Etiquette by James McClung - Short, Comedy - Some things are more important than making movies. 6 pages - pdf, format 8)

J-man, what's up?

Okay, I liked your scripts, so I gave this baby a read straight away. Here are my thoughts:

- Do we need to know the characters full names in their intro? Why not stick to their last or first name only...

- Okay, by mentioning atual films like Paranormal Activity and Cloverfield, you are isolating part of the audience. If people have never heard of those films, those lines won't make sense.... so careful which too much name dropping.

- Minimal characters, easy locations, good way to get this thing produced, good stuff.

- This was all good until the last scene. Great, witty banter throughout, some clear characters, and a set up at the start. I think you should have gone with the two fat cats saying stuff in the urinal which will come back to bite them. Something like, "Oh, if only Cox knew blah blah blah then he could make his film how he wants to, no more reshoots." And then the other two hear that, and mention it in the meeting.

The last scene was too over the top compared to the rest of it, I think, and it ruined it. By going with what I mentioned above, you are still making the point about etiquette, but in a more realistic way.

Anyways over all, good job man. Funny lines, could work well as a good skit/short, just think the ending could be slightly better.

Hello James,

I like bathroom humour as much as the next man but didn't find this to be funny.  The story wasn't for me.

I don't mind the full name thing as characters refer to other characters by surname.

I think you should of named the studio head.

I don't agree with capitals in dialogue and excessive exclamation marks.

All the best,


Javier

Thanks for the read, guys. I just wanted to point out this is not just bathroom humor. It's actually a spoof off guys chatting at the urinal in movies and TV. Nobody does this in real life as far as I know and based on past conversations, I'm not the only one who's annoyed by it. Hell, even the Sopranos do it. It's in affront on realism and just plain awkward. I hate it!

Not that this is meant to change any of your opinions. They stand just the same. The full names, I wasn't sure how to handle. Just figured they'd come up as these guys are essentially famous in this world. That's what I was going for anyway. The capitals, I agree. I don't know. Just figured I could get away with it in something like this. The ending... yeah, I guess it is a little too over the top. I will point out, however, that not all of the interactions are meant to be realistic. I created the universe with the intention that everyone takes the concept of male etiquette seriously and excessively, even ludicrously, so. To the point that it takes priority over legitimate problems. That's basically the joke although I really, really hate it in movies and I don't think I'm the only one.

It's boring. What I compare this to is that some time ago, there was a short (on SS) about a backlot with something about zombies (movie set zombies), a guy getting fired, golf karts (a tour?), you know, movie biz. But it was hilarious. So while I don't know shit about what you wrote about, I didn't know shit about the backlot story, either, but I was in stitches none-the-less. The writer made the content funny. You address the man-code, but I think you need to take it from a different angle to make it funny. Couldn't tell you what that is, either.

yo dude, so i really enjoyed this (although i have no problem peeing and talking at the same time. shit, youve called me while ive been glazing my knuckles and i still answered the phone). i thought the whole thing was more witty and clever than it was LOL funny. which to me, id rather have it that way - and be that kind of writer. my only gripe with the script, and you know im this way with everything, was the paranormal activity reference. but like i said, no matter what film im watching or screenplay im reading, i always critique outside references.

so overall, really well written short. flowed nicely, was entertaining, and could be easily produced. plus dialogue was superb, but thats to be expected from you by now

Quoted from cloroxmartini It's boring. What I compare this to is that some time ago, there was a short (on SS) about a backlot with something about zombies (movie set zombies), a guy getting fired, golf karts (a tour?), you know, movie biz. But it was hilarious. So while I don't know shit about what you wrote about, I didn't know shit about the backlot story, either, but I was in stitches none-the-less. The writer made the content funny. You address the man-code, but I think you need to take it from a different angle to make it funny. Couldn't tell you what that is, either.

Fair enough. Don't think it's boring but I suppose the humor's a tad dry. Seinfeld funny, I suppose. I couldn't never write anything as clever or funny as Seinfeld's stuff (ever) but the show's never made me bust a gut or even come close. That's what I'm getting at. Not sure where I went wrong with clarity though.

Quoted from albinopenguin yo dude, so i really enjoyed this (although i have no problem peeing and talking at the same time. shit, youve called me while ive been glazing my knuckles and i still answered the phone). i thought the whole thing was more witty and clever than it was LOL funny. which to me, id rather have it that way - and be that kind of writer. my only gripe with the script, and you know im this way with everything, was the paranormal activity reference. but like i said, no matter what film im watching or screenplay im reading, i always critique outside references. so overall, really well written short. flowed nicely, was entertaining, and could be easily produced. plus dialogue was superb, but thats to be expected from you by now

Thank you, good sir.

The issues chatting side by side in public rest rooms. I could give a shit what you're doing if you're on the phone? Just looks retarded in movies and TV. Adam Sandler movies, Nip/Tuck, Sopranos, whatever. Every once and a while, they toss in some stupid dick reference without even trying to make a joke and the characters think nothing of it. Despite whatever graphic scatological references enter our personal discussions, that kind of comfort just never works in the movies.

Anyway, you're right about the humor. It's more the general concept that's funny than any actual jokes. Always wanted to write a script on the subject so I did, especially considering most of my shorts aren't easily filmable. Figured I've been selling myself short.  Also right about the movie references. It generally never crosses my mind to use them but since these guys are all in the biz, I figured they'd naturally enter the conversation. Still, I doubt I'll ever use them again.

now thinking back on it, since they are movie exec's, its a little more appropriate - at the very least, it works. still i wouldnt have done it, but that's just my personal preference. maybe its because i never found a way to write an outside movie reference into my script- and you have, so kudos for that.

and i most definitely agree with what youre saying. this scene happens way too frequently in movies and tv- and its done for a cheap laugh. hahaha im not circumcized hahaha i pee really slow hahaha my piss is orange colored hahaha - NOT FUNNY FUCKERS

You wrote this in a very clear and concice fashion. Well done on that score.  It's also microbudget and very easy to shoot.   So well done there too.  

This sort of skit has been done often but that isn't a reason not to do it, you just have to do it differently.  Unfortunately, discussions of ettiquette and someone overhearing a conversation in the bathroom isn't quite different enough.   However, the ironic twist at the end was pretty fresh so you kind of made up for it.

That being said, I think this is a bit light on story and character and as a result is falling short of the zing it should have.  If it's meant to be a skit then that's ok, just add more jokes.  If it's meant to be a film then you might want to consider adding a bit more depth.        

I suppose this is more skit than film. I wrote this script essentially for three reasons. To have something easily produceable, to express my sentiments regarding the subject matter and, most importantly, for fun. I don't write many shorts for myself. More than half have been for the OWC. If I'm going to write a short that's more dense, it'll more than likely be horror or drama. I do hold my few comedy shorts (non OWC) in higher regard than "throwaways" but I don't really intend for them to be all that sophisticated. I'm writing two features at the moment, one of which I've been hired to write and have something of a deadline for. This is sort of a break from both.

That said, a few more jokes couldn't hurt. I'm not sure how much more I could build this up but I suppose I could if I tried. I think I'll hold out for a few more reviews then see if I can't beef it up some.

James

You do good work so I said I'd check this out. It had its ups and downs or me and as you say, I don't see it more of a skit then a short film.

Unlike Tommy I loved the full (purposely Jewish) names, very Hollywood. As were the attitude of all the characters, the artistically compromised director, his foil, the egotistical, leering producers and of course the short tempered, unpredictable studio head, Harvey Weintein anyone?

The whole etiquette concept was somewhat humorous; I did something similar before in a short about bathroom politics albeit from a different angle. I didn't think Scorsese and Gilliam reference worked, again, personally, they stood out as ill fitting and too obvious. That’s the thing I find with referencing, it can only be pulled of half the time, for me it usually depends on obscurity and comic timing, unfortunately I didn't find them clicking here. This could be just me of course.

I get what you were going for in the closing sequence, rounding the story up, I guess I just didn't buy it. Keeping in mind that this is a skit an all and such is the nature of these things, overblown characterisation, implausibility, random coincidences, etc it just didn't work for me as a punchline too illogical and silly to deliver that all important closing laugh from the audience (again this could just my sense of humor|).

Good writing all the same though bar a couple of typos and a commendable maverick filmmaker in Russell, we need more of him around.

Col.

Aw, this was just like Entourage but from the perspective of the film makers and not the actor and his agent.  I really dig Entourage so I got a kick out of this.

calling in a new director to film reshoots on the sly and behind the original directors back? that's a low blow. dose hollywood do this for real?

The clash between the director and the studio had me spellbound so I don't understand why you had to string this story together with toilet etiquette. Who gives a shit about  something trival like talking to the person next to you at the urinal. I wanted to see more of Russell and Keir getting screwed over by the studio.

and you do realize you have a story about an exposed penis while men have a piss in urinal together and you have one of them with the last name Cox? That's got to be deliberate. Right?

Quoted from Colkurtz8 Unlike Tommy I loved the full (purposely Jewish) names, very Hollywood. As were the attitude of all the characters, the artistically compromised director, his foil, the egotistical, leering producers and of course the short tempered, unpredictable studio head, Harvey Weintein anyone?

Quoted from tonkatough and you do realize you have a story about an exposed penis while men have a piss in urinal together and you have one of them with the last name Cox? That's got to be deliberate. Right?

All the names are deliberate. However Oliver Lipschitz is the only Jewish name and while its inevitable that Cox will be linked to the exposed penis, that's not what it's referring to. All the names are loose puns meant to describe a character's behavior or condition. They might be a little hard to figure out but they're there albiet not particularly clever.

Quoted from tonkatough Aw, this was just like Entourage but from the perspective of the film makers and not the actor and his agent.  I really dig Entourage so I got a kick out of this.

Haha! Coincidentally, I hate Entourage so needless to say, I haven't watched more than a couple episodes. I'm not sure how I could have emulated it in any way. Nevertheless, if the Entourage flavor helps you enjoy my story, I'm glad. To each his own. :)

Quoted from tonkatough calling in a new director to film reshoots on the sly and behind the original directors back? that's a low blow. dose hollywood do this for real?

Maybe not behind their back but it's been done. The most famous example is Paul Schrader's Exorcist prequel. Apparently, it was too artsy for the producers so they got action director Renny Harlin (Die Hard) to reshoot the entire thing from scratch. Very low blow, indeed. Not sure how great Schrader's version was but just the same.

Quoted from Colkurtz8 I get what you were going for in the closing sequence, rounding the story up, I guess I just didn't buy it. Keeping in mind that this is a skit an all and such is the nature of these things, overblown characterisation, implausibility, random coincidences, etc it just didn't work for me as a punchline too illogical and silly to deliver that all important closing laugh from the audience (again this could just my sense of humor|).

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to react this way. That's fine. Cornetto liked it so that's good enough for me. I suppose the story would work more logically if it was more of a cautionary tale about leaking (no pun intended) secrets. Like I said before though, it's not meant to be logical all the time. Besides, the real joke would never sink in that way even if it doesn't sink in now.

Hey James

I don't have a problem with you including surnames but I wonder why you didn't name the studio head at the end?

As for the story, I found it funny.  It something stupid but completely true, you don't talk and you definately look straight ahead at all times lol.  I actually liked the ending, Rich and Oliver being fired not for what they were talking about but just for talking in the lav.

There's a good underlying story here too, a director getting jerked about.  Overall, I liked this and found it a nice quick and enjoyable read.

Not a bad little read.  You've taken what is sort of a Curb your Enthusiasm moment and turned it into a six page script.  But, it was a curious decision making the characters in this high powered Hollywood people instead of just normal guys.   That does put a bit of distance between the story and the reader, IMO.  I think it might have been funnier it had just been two blue collar joes discussing the finer points of bathroom etiquette.

When I saw the two last names of Cox and Hertz, I thought for sure you were setting us up for a cox hurts joke.  It was not to be.

I think you made a mistake on the last scene when you wrote:

"Oliver and Kier sit in front of the STUDIO HEAD (60s), a
wrinkly old lard ass in a fancy chair."

I believe you meant Oliver and Rich.  Right?

So, not bad.  But, I think you could have mined the situation for more comedy gold.

Thanks for reading, guys.

Quoted from Cam17 But, it was a curious decision making the characters in this high powered Hollywood people instead of just normal guys.   That does put a bit of distance between the story and the reader, IMO.  I think it might have been funnier it had just been two blue collar joes discussing the finer points of bathroom etiquette.

Initially, I wanted the story to take place at an office but I couldn't figure out which roles the characters would play and what they would talk about at the urinals. The film industry just seemed like more familiar territory. Since the execs screwing over the director is meant to be secondary to the plot, I figured it wouldn't be much of an issue anyway.

Hahah, the audience WOULD want more handheld.  Poor fools.

This was a fun little lark.  I'm afraid I don't really have much constructive criticism because I don't think there is much to criticize.  You accomplish what you set out to do.  If I saw this on TV I would probably giggle and then never think of it again.  Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, this is pretty much a joke made into a little skit. I get the feeling that the writer is venting a little frustration here and not just toward Hollywood clichés but toward Hollywood in general. Or at least there seemed to be a little jab at the “fat cats” at the top.

I didn’t find it particularly funny, although I’ve never heard of male bathroom etiquette and in that regard I found it strangely fascinating. :D Not that I would ever need to know such etiquette but it’s interesting to hear about nonetheless.

Might make an interesting single thread in a larger comedy that’s focused on several different character threads. All by itself, it seems a little lacking. For what it is, I do think the punchline is fitting. As far as setting up the ending and progressing toward it, it worked well.


Breanne

Thanks for reading, guys.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Yeah, this is pretty much a joke made into a little skit. I get the feeling that the writer is venting a little frustration here and not just toward Hollywood clichés but toward Hollywood in general. Or at least there seemed to be a little jab at the “fat cats” at the top.

Quoted from James McClung Initially, I wanted the story to take place at an office but I couldn't figure out which roles the characters would play and what they would talk about at the urinals. The film industry just seemed like more familiar territory. Since the execs screwing over the director is meant to be secondary to the plot, I figured it wouldn't be much of an issue anyway.

I usually try to avoid this kind of material. Generally, I find it cheap but then so is the script, to a degree. Heretic described it best as a lark.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson I didn’t find it particularly funny, although I’ve never heard of male bathroom etiquette and in that regard I found it strangely fascinating. :D Not that I would ever need to know such etiquette but it’s interesting to hear about nonetheless.

That's good enough for me! :)

Hey if it wasn’t for the male bathroom scene, we wouldn’t have this scene:

Hi James -

Well, I'm not sure if I'm qualified to review this one.

I've only been in a men's bathroom a handful of times in my life (and never for nefarious reasons, I might add..!)  And I really, really, really have no idea what the etiquette is regarding talking to guys while standing at a urinal.  (Though I have to admit that I'm quite jealous that 50% of the population can go outside, in emergency situations.)

That said (and having said way too much already), I did have a few tweaks/issues with this one (IMHO.)

1) I know it's a camp comedy, but the big wigs came off a *little too* cartoony for me.  Especially with the spraying foam from the jowls...  What is this guy, a British bulldog?

2) On page 2, Russell makes a comment about what urinal cakes taste like.  I'm really, seriously worried about how he would know that...

3) Do guys sometimes really kick their leg involuntarily?  Seriously - I have no idea....

4) The ending - while I like the idea - came too abruptly.  

Just my four cents, there...

Cheers!

--WV

Thanks for the read, Janet! I'm not sure by what means people dig these old ones up but it's happened quite a bit in my time.

Quoted from wonkavite Well, I'm not sure if I'm qualified to review this one. I've only been in a men's bathroom a handful of times in my life (and never for nefarious reasons, I might add..!)  And I really, really, really have no idea what the etiquette is regarding talking to guys while standing at a urinal.  (Though I have to admit that I'm quite jealous that 50% of the population can go outside, in emergency situations.)

Obviously, this is an exaggerated interpretation of etiquette but I'm not sure even the real life etiquette is at a scale where it can be lampooned so extensively. I think urinal chats at this point have just annoyed a minimal but substantial amount of guys enough to produce some good satire (mostly on the Internet). I myself just got sick of unrealistic scenes in movies (namely Adam Sandler's) where guys talk about their business than make some lame comment about the color of their pee or something as a cheap gag.

Quoted from wonkavite 1) I know it's a camp comedy, but the big wigs came off a *little too* cartoony for me.  Especially with the spraying foam from the jowls...  What is this guy, a British bulldog?

Yeah, I basically pictured a guy straight out of Animaniacs or something. A little too much, maybe.

Quoted from wonkavite 2) On page 2, Russell makes a comment about what urinal cakes taste like.  I'm really, seriously worried about how he would know that...

Just reread the line. Surprised to say, I thought it was funny even now. I can't imagine the cake would taste like anything else.

Quoted from wonkavite 3) Do guys sometimes really kick their leg involuntarily?  Seriously - I have no idea....

I've seen it done.

Quoted from wonkavite 4) The ending - while I like the idea - came too abruptly.

  

Yep. You're right.

Honestly, I kinda forgot about this one so I reread it for the first (maybe the second) time in the year or so since it got buried. I'd call it junk but I think it's too much of a lark to deserve such a harsh label. In any case, I surprisingly now take a lot more issue with lampooning the film industry than I do guys chatting at the john. I would've loved to have set this in a normal office but I know nothing about office politics.

Regardless, I think I might rewrite this one a couple times and film it. Think it might work as much as a filmmaking lark as it is a writing one.

Anyway, thanks again! I've seen a few of your scripts floating around. I'll take a look at one of them as soon as I get a chance.