I wanted to bring this up. If there's a thread for it, forgive. I've been asked by a few through PM, where to post their shorts to attract the most attention from film makers. I, personally, think this place is best. I just think its what you write, not necessarily where you post it.

Some of the best shorts I've ever read on here have no chance of becoming film IMO. The production costs would be enormous. The best short I think i've personally ever written only got two queries. Both went nowhere. Basically two talking heads on a train with a violent ending. It wasn't the violent ending that was the problem, it was the train. Amateur film makers don't have that kind of coin for the insurance and rental.

My last short was two talking heads in a resataurant. 14 queries. It was an experiment. It worked. It's been shot once, Looks like its going to be made again by a filmaker in LA.

I've often wondered the value. Is it better to write to win contests or to be produced?

I think a couple of well made shorts on anyones resume could do wonders. I've got two so far. Thank you Cornie for The Environmetalist. It is my showpiece.

I would just like to hear what some people think as to why some shorts get made and some don't. To me, it's not about where you place them, its how you write them. I don't know which of the vets here have had the most produced shorts, But I think it would be educational to all who aspire to see there work on film if you guys chimed in. I personally would like to hear it. I'm interested...

Now that I've gotten that out with mediocre eloquence, time for some cheap rum as I watch this thread drop straight down the portal with no responses. Cheers!

James

Based on what I've seen here, I think it's been a cross between being dirt cheap and good writing... that is also dirt cheap.

Mike (Shelton) and Phil have both had a number of shorts produced which I've read and I think it was just a matter of a simple premise and sharp dialogue. I've read others that were produced that I didn't are for but were, again... just dirt cheap. I have a short currently in production which was also, you guessed it, dirt cheap to produce.

That said, I have a big problem with writers setting their sights too low. If you write a script in an apartment with two characters or maybe one character doing a V.O., chances are it'll be easy to produce. A lot of writers could probably shoot their stuff themselves. That doesn't mean it'll be worth it though. A lot of these scripts just feel like brain farts to me and I can't imagine a prospective director, D.P., etc. would have much to show for themselves. So I'd say just try to keep it simple but do put some effort into it and try to come up with something interesting.

Another thing that might be an interesting approach for feature writers would be to write shorts with characters from your features. That way, you have characters who are, hopefully, three-dimensional with established backstories who you can toy around with, without having to go the whole nine yards as far as concept or budget are concerned. I've realized recently that I don't have a knack for, nor a great interest in, writing shorts but have finally started to become actively involved in filmmaking so this is one avenue I'm looking to pursue.

If it's humour and it's funny and easy to produce and it has a catchy title then you are most likely to get a bite.   Second would be horror and easy to produce.  

I think I've had near 15 or so produced now. Some are still in production, but should be done soon. I'm not sure, but I think I have 40 shorts here and almost 50 on my website. I haven't counted them in a while.

Most of them have been found here and a few at MoviePoet. Got an e-mail about Old Wounds from there today. That works out good since the other person tinkering with it for a couple of years will not finish it.

I wouldn't worry too much about keeping an ultra low budget in mind. Story has to come first.

I love writing shorts. Suits my attention span just right. I also think shorts are a great way to connect with producer/directors. Many times I've been asked by people who love my shorts if they can read a feature... Sadly, I've never had a feature that was good enough to show anyone until Blackout, but that one was rewritten by someone else.  :-/   Still, it's in the hands of a director looking for a feature to shoot that already directed one of my shorts. In other words, absolutely write shorts and post them here.  :)

It's more than just having your script produced.  The filmmaker needs to do something with the film to have any impact.

Of my favorite shorts produced, only half made it beyond private viewing.  They did very well in competition and, IMHO, helped me.  The others disappeared off the face of the earth; I'm trying to get master copies of them so I can get them into festivals.  Getting them into festivals makes it easier to get it listed on IMDB, and that'll only make me look better.


Phil

There are different types of filmmaker.

Those that are just starting out are more often than not looking for extremely cheap stuff to produce...so one location and a few characters.

Obviously there are more beginners out there looking for material...so those kind of scripts  will move more easily.

With that being said James and Phil make very salient points.

The shorts that more serious filmmakers will be after will probably be one of three things:

1.European style social realism...these are the kinds of stories that seem to win multiple awards at the biggest European festival...and they can make serious, serious money.

Saw this film the other day:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1114688/

It's a very simple story, reasonably well filmed...most people wouldn't consider it either a great story/script or film IMHO.

It won over 200 awards (!!!) and also won an award they give to the film most nominated in a single year by the major film festivals.

This is a MAJOR market in short film terms that not many writers cater for on here, and elsehwere on the web,

2. Genre scripts that will enable the filmmaker to compete for prizes and attention. Particularly high concept shorts that act as a promo for a feature...EG Saw.

3. The type of short that allows the filmmaker to demonstrate his undeniable talent as a pro director...high end visual stuff that requires green screen, VFX etc...Ie a film that demonstrates their ability to make an actual Hollywood film, just on a smaller scale.

EG The Silent City, The Raven.


As for what's better for a writer...would have thought contests would be more useful personally...but I don't know for sure. That's ultimatley a true reflection of your own work. Phil raises a very pertinent point about the ability of filmmakers to promote their material (and hence your writing). It's extremely difficult without considerable financial resources to get the film out to multiple festivals...it's far from a level playing field. It can certainly be beneficial to establish a relationship with a competent filmmaker though, as Pia suggests, as who knows where that may ultimately lead?

The main reason I brought This up was because I talked with this director at lenghts last night. He said, and I quote, "You're nobody in this town if you don't, at least, have an IMDB profile. That's the first thing we look at."

It resonated with me. Again, better to write shorts with competition in mind or write to be produced?

I didn't write a shit short, James. Its not a cop out. I churned my brains for weeks trying to come up with the idea. Most liked it, except Jeff.  I would never advise ANYONE to set their sights low.  Just more practical. I laughed my ass off when I wrote it. Because I found it funny myself.

I also think a mediocre script can become a great film if done by the right director.

James

I spend as much time selling my work as I do writing it.  You have to find directors/producers who want to look at it.  Since the beginning of the year, I sent out 90+ query letters and 200+ e-queries.

And you have to give them a reason to look at your work!  Don't tell a director that you have 10 feature length scripts and 75 shorts in your portfolio.  That means jack-shit.  Tell them what you've had produced and if you won anything in competitions.


Phil

I have an imdb profile!!!!  

Does that mean I am somebody?...no

So don't expect to work in that town until you have an IMDB profile.  There are plenty of other people who make shorts in plenty of other places.  Eventually one of them will make a film of yours and enter it into a contest on withoutabox and then you will have an IMDB credit.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I have an imdb profile!!!!   Does that mean I am somebody?...no

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1012434/


Phil

Quoted from jwent6688 I didn't write a shit short, James. Its not a cop out. I churned my brains for weeks trying to come up with the idea. Most liked it, except Jeff.  I would never advise ANYONE to set their sights low.  Just more practical. I laughed my ass off when I wrote it. Because I found it funny myself.

I didn't mean to imply you did write a "shit short," nor am I sure you even meant to imply that I did. If you did, and I read it, I will most certainly have told you.

I do think a lot of writers do set their sights low though. I don't think any of them realize it but they do it just the same.

I do agree a mediocre script can be made into a great film but who cares? Why wait for the right director to come along? Get it right on paper.

Quoted from jwent6688 The main reason I brought This up was because I talked with this director at lenghts last night. He said, and I quote, "You're nobody in this town if you don't, at least, have an IMDB profile. That's the first thing we look at."

How big of an imdb profile does this guy have?


Phil

Occasionally I'll go running through youtube looking @ shorts and will run across someone like this:


Now, look at all the product this "kid" has produced.
http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew#g/u

Wrote.
Shot.
Chopped.
Loaded.

How much longer is Freddie gonna be "on the streets" putzin' around with these creative cornball shorts?
How much longer until he hits Neil BlomKamp's "Alive in Joburg" Quality in SFX?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Blomkamp&search=tag

The point is that not only are people writing, their also directing quality stuff.

Check out products from the "Iron Filmmaker" competition.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=iron%20filmmaker&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1

Where do these people go from here?

Writers have some pretty hard competition with writer/director/producers.

Two episodes ago for Babz Buzz she discretely took a pass on what I thought would be a "difficult" question: "What kind of producers and directors go to agencies looking for material? Why aren't they writing their own stuff"
My guess: People with toys and talent but no ideas of their own to shoot.

Now, we've all seen sh!t films. Some made it DTV. Some to assorted horror-fests. Lionsgate probably brings in some margin from schlock. Some even make it to the silver screen.

So, who are you writing for?
Who is coming to look for your work?

Phil & Pia impress the pudding outta me because they've been able to successfully secure producers for their material.
I gather it takes a LOT of effort.
Building contacts and relationships is key in this biz.
Likely, their producers and directors have a "stable" of writers, much akin to what Babz refers to, so there's no guarantee that once anyone makes a hit film (and we all know how fickle that can be) that the other writers are gonna have to take a distant back seat for a while.

Competition cognizance.
Produce & market.
Not just produce.
But I'm just guessing.

I looked at two of Freddy's shorts, Ray, and I'm not at all impressed.  I'm rarely impressed with the stuff there.  It's where films go to die, IMHO.

When someone asks to film one of my scripts, I ask what they plan on doing with the film.  If they say 'youtube,' that's a red flag.

The following is, IMHO, the best thing on youtube.




Phil

Phil,

Sent you PM with his name. Feel free to send it around, didn't want to plaster it here.

Quoted from Me I have an imdb profile!!!!   Does that mean I am somebody?...no

I'd rather be a nobody with an IMBD profile then one without. Again, I dunno how much of this is really true.

Quoted from mcornetto So don't expect to work in that town until you have an IMDB profile.

Isn't that the point though.? Don't we all want to work in THAT town? That's where the best and worst movies get made. I'm just confused about how to break into the biz as strictly a writer. Bad and good, most of us... are still here.

James

Phil -
I failed to make my point.

Freddie's youtube goof offs may be no great shakes, but the guy had to figure out some story and fight scene choreography for these.
I concede his work currently appears to largely be a SFX venue, but then again so was Bomkamp's pre-DISTRICT 9 work.
Both of these geehaw with Rick's third point, above.

A couple months back I did a little digging around on FROZEN due to the talk around here.
The director, Adam Green http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1697112/ began with some goofy shorts, they got a little better, and now look at where the guy is.
(lucky schmuck married the brunette chick, Rileah Vanderbilt, in SABER. The blonde chick, Clare Grant, married Seth Green. Don't know if Adam and Seth are related).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1470828/


Just last night I posted a DVD extras review for the $20million (US) DAYBREAKERS, writen & directed by the Spierig Brothers. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1294961/ whose prior work was the $1M (AUS) UNDEAD. Their credited work prior to that was the $3,000 (AUS) THE BIG PICTURE.

PI didn't really impress me, but BLACK SWAN seems to be a decent outcome of that humble begining.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004716/

And then there's the whole Robert Rodriguez saga. QT, as well.

Now maybe these are just a few co-winkie-dinks, but I'm pretty sure the more digging around we do we can see "Yes" some of these people start from not all that impressive beginings but they take off from there.

Rome wan't built in a day, and not every writer/director is committed to the Ed Wood/Wes Craven/David Cronenberg never ending series of (profitable) tripe.

"What they plan on doing with the film" is perfect.
"Who are THEY?" would be more to what I was addressing.
=> People with toys and skills but not the head for writing a story by the truckloads. <=
WE are the writers, to obviously varying degrees of sucess, that write for those with toys and skills but no ideas.
Our competition is with people that can write/direct/produce.
So, writing for something that can be sensibly financed & produced is very sensible.

Good, bad or indifferent, some of the shorts I write are more sensible budget-wise than others.
GLORY & PRIDE or NINJA GOPHERS would be cheap.
SMALL POWERS would not.
AUTOMATED might be feasible.
THE MANSOUR CIRCLE INCIDENT completely out of any sensible budget for a short.

I believe James' original idea was to vet "Is it better to write to win contests or to be produced?"

I would lean towards produced, in which case budgetary considerations come before high art of literary merit competitions warrant.

Quoted from jwent6688 Isn't that the point though.? Don't we all want to work in THAT town? That's where the best and worst movies get made. I'm just confused about how to break into the biz as strictly a writer. Bad and good, most of us... are still here.

Not all of us want to work in that town.  But the point is if you want to work in that town then you set up a plan to get there.   If that plan involves the step of getting an IMDB profile then I've just told you how to do that.  So make the IMDB profile your first objective.   To be honest, I don't think that's a requirement.

Quoted from jwent6688 Phil, Sent you PM with his name. Feel free to send it around, didn't want to plaster it here.

I looked.  I wasn't impressed.

Quoted from jwent6688 I'm just confused about how to break into the biz as strictly a writer. Bad and good, most of us... are still here.

I still say that entering competitions is a good way to get noticed.  Filmmakers often ask to the competition organizers for contact information of the winners.  And it always looks good on your resume when you can mention competitions you've won in.

You also have to know how to shop your scripts around.  Don't try with the big names.  Oliver Stone isn't looking to make a short right now.  Craigslist is a great place to find student filmmakers and other people wanting to get into movies.


Phil

Quoted from RayW Phil & Pia impress the pudding outta me because they've been able to successfully secure producers for their material. I gather it takes a LOT of effort.

Phil might work hard at it Ray, but you don't know me. I don't have dreams of working for Hollywood. I'm my own weird little person who writes for a completely different reasons.

Don'tchagotta put a little hustle in it?

I don't have dreams of working for Hollywood. I'm my own weird little person who writes for a completely different reasons.
You're soooo cryptic!
Don't tell me.
I just wanna immmmmagine what that means.  :)

Just a note on breaking in - I read on Scriptshadow that it takes an average of SEVEN YEARS for a writer to go from starting to write scripts to breaking in. So I really don't think any of us are doing too badly.

Quoted from JonnyBoy Just a note on breaking in - I read on Scriptshadow that it takes an average of SEVEN YEARS for a writer to go from starting to write scripts to breaking in. So I really don't think any of us are doing too badly.

If that was the case (I don't believe it), my day is coming very soon.


Phil

SPIN: the best short on Youtube. Good example of storytelling without dialogue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP59tQf_njc

Quoted from fionaman SPIN: the best short on Youtube. Good example of storytelling without dialogue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP59tQf_njc

Nice film.

Quoted from JonnyBoy Just a note on breaking in - I read on Scriptshadow that it takes an average of SEVEN YEARS for a writer to go from starting to write scripts to breaking in.

I'm six days from my 8-year anniversary. So, I have less than a week to go before I "break in".

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=)

Quoted from Mr. Blonde I'm six days from my 8-year anniversary. So, I have less than a week to go before I "break in". YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

That's just the average...for everyone who got lucky on their first go...there's someone who took twenty years. ;)

Allowing for a Bell curve 7 years in the middle - disallowing infinity because those that didn't break in are probably excluded from the statistics - using 71 as a more than reasonable maximum age to finally break-in by.  That means it can take from 0 to approx 55 years to break-in.  

Thanks guys, for depressing the shit out of me....

Reality sucks!


Phil