Billy by Simon (sicoll007) - Short - Whilst in debt, a man makes a rash decision. 10 pages - pdf, format 8)

I liked this a whole lot better than Cat.  Nice dramatic ending.  Would look great on film.  Only thing I didn't like was the slang.   It was distracting.   Other than that, it was a quick and effective read.  

Hi - thanks for the read - yeah, I think Cat's probably a bit of a crash looking for a repair. The slang - do you man Dog's dialogue?

Quoted from Forgive Hi - thanks for the read - yeah, I think Cat's probably a bit of a crash looking for a repair. The slang - do you man Dog's dialogue?

Yes.

Simon,

Interesting story here. Very minimalist writing -- not a problem for me.

I like the direction you took it in, the turnaround on Dog’s character was a nice touch, unexpected.

I would say that not revealing what Billy said to Dog didn’t give me much to fall back on in terms of why he should suddenly want to take Billy away.  The pivotal moment (Rash sending Billy into the office) felt vague in that we never really see what Rash is hoping to achieve.  Up until this point he seems to look after Billy pretty well given the circumstances -- checking his weight, washing, feeding him etc.  Felt like it dampened the payoff.  

Hope that made sense...

Aside from that --

p.6 -- ‘to an first floor office’.  Should be ‘a’.

Steve.

Hey Simon- Liked your story a lot. Even though Billy didn't seem to have the capacity to understand what was going on I felt for Rash the most. Hard for anyone to have to take care of someone else let alone an adult. Rash was stuck in a corner, vunerable. Best of luck with anything else in the future.

Another good short from you.

I really like the way you write, Simon.  It reads fast, but it gets the point across.  Both of your scripts that I've read have a very distinct, dirty feel to them.

The story's sad and short.  It's mostly dialogue and the dialogue was really good, so there's not much to complain about.

The ending, I feel, could have a little more oomph.

Gage

Hi Simon,

The feedback you have given me in the past has been absolutely priceless. It's a pity I'm unable to do the same, as I was unable to fault this (as I expected, anyway.).

You've come out with a brilliant little short, that I imagine would be very easy to film.

Very sad story, indeed, written to perfection.

Sorry. Wish I could say more, but as I say, I couldn't fault it.

Daniel

Simon, this was a bit hit and miss for me.

It was a little strange to read with the minimal descriptions and short sharp dialogue.  The concept is quite dark; one brother struggling to look after the other.  I didn't understand why Rash got the loan but then didn't spend it at the shop?  Also if Dog was holding Billy, wouldn't Rash contact authorities to get him back in his care?

I quite liked the quickness in the read but it just lacked something...but I'm not sure what?

stevemiles - Hi, you make a good point there - there's a couple of thing that happen that are key to the story, and maybe one of them has to be writ large(r) - I can totally see why you say it vagues out around there. Nice bit of spotting.

DV44 - cheers! Thanks for the read.

Gage - so you're person number two who's said the ending's a bit damp - that's interesting, and I didn't really see that. I'll have to have a look over it, and see where it'll go. Yeah - a tad dialogue heavy, I think it could benefit from a little more creativity in the descriptions. Glad you liked it overall & thanks for the read.

Daniel - Cheers guy! I'm just glad you liked it - you know I have a lot of respect for your writing, so that's good enough for me!

Alffy - You've spotted what a number of people, to my mind, are thinking, and I do need to look at my 'trimming' which I think I do at the expense of creativity, and sometimes fail to create a 'mood' to a script - that's been made fairly clear from uploading this and the other short. Jeff pointed out a lot missing 'a''s & 'the''s, which I'm subconsciously doing to speed up the read & sometimes it really shouldn't read fast - it needs to read right. Rash doesn't spend the loan as he knows in reality he can't pay it back - which is why he goes back to the loan shark. Thanks for the read though - you're confirming what I'm suspecting.

Nice work, it was a sad tale but I think in the end Rash got what was coming to him. It was a fast and clean read.

Hey Simon

I read this without reading other reviews but having completed it i rea the others as i wanted to check out what they made of it.

In short I could have almost written Steve Miles review word for word. Sorry to repeat but at least you know another thought he same way.

I was really into this and the use of repeating a scene to reflect a situation is one I learnt from the film the illusionist where they have a powerful scene of the magician trying to get on stage three times. You did that well and I felt it, it was just at the end I couldn't work out what happened. Was Dog doing a good deed or not etc what had the bother asked Billy to do, good or bad etc

As an aside I thought you portrayed Billy well but again an extra couple of words, or line of description, may have helped when we first met him. Happy, shaking his head etc could have been the result of a handful of things.

Cheers

Bill

Simon, I glanced over the feedback and saw my name brought up, so decided to have a read.  I read the whole thing and have some comments that may help you find the style you're looking for.

First of all, let's all understand in everything, there are options.  Options are good.  Variety is the spice of life, and depending on the particular vice..I mean spice that we're talking about, give 'em to me!

I write the way I do because to me, it makes the most sense.  It allows me to include the most detail, all the dialogue I want, and all the visual action I'm after, in the least amount of pages.  I always  try to be as efficient as I can...not just in writing, but in all things.

For some reason, you and some others have this feeling that you need to offer a "fast read".  To make it "fast", you literally cut necessary words out, and write in a very staccato style, that's almost completely void of any real visuals.  To me, this is a big mistake.

I often critique people's "style" and say negative things about it.  But the reality is that I'm critiquing what I'm actually reading on the page, what I'm seeing in my head as I read, and the fact that it's not effective.

You know I'm all about solid, technical writing, completely accurate grammar, Slug use, sentence structure and the like, but probably, what's most important to me is 2 things:

Clarity  and Visual writing.

Simon, for me, this script is neither, and I think the problem lies in what you're attempting to do with your writing, as opposed to trying to get these 2 things across in the most efficient way possible.

I don't want to go int great detail, but I will offer up some exact examples as well as some generalities I see on display here.

In your entire 8 pages here, you only have three 3 line passages.  You've probably got 6 or so 2 line passages, and the rest are all 1 line.  This obviously creates lots of white space and a quick read, but does it give much visual description?  I don't think so.

On Page 1, under your new Slug of GROCERY STORE, you have a 1 line passage which reads, "Billy and Rash."  Now, this obviously is not a sentence because it has no verb, but more importantly, what is it telling us...or showing us?  Your next passage is a 2 liner ending in a totally unnecessary orphan - but, these 2 passages should really be combined, and in total, they should be 2 lines, meaning here, you have an extra 2 lines that you completely wasted.  You can go through the entire script and see lots of examples like this.

Page 2 - Look at you opening passage here, under a brand new location Slug.  First of all, you didn't properly intro the "owner".  You also didn't name him, or give him an age.  If you didn't use "he" in the line, we wouldn't even know "he" was a male. You omitted a lead "a" or "the", which makes the sentence read poorly. But more importantly, you chose not to give us a single visual of this new location we're in...zero visuals here.

The next passage is a real head scratcher, as you've got a single sentence passage that runs 3 lines, filled with multiple shots and dashes, that's just worded downright bizarrely.  Another new character not properly intro'd as well.  Rash grabs bread and milk and throws it down at the register, as if this store is what...like 5 feet by 5 feet?  No visual equals confused reader.  Confused reader equals unhappy reader.

OK, 1 more passage I want to bring up, also on page 2 - "Owner’s escorting Billy out - Rash’s following him up - to the owner ..." - The tense is all off here.  No lead in word again.  Dashes misused.  The ellipses is all wrong - no spaces between them.  No reason for one here at all, as far as I can see.

Simon, if I were you, I'd relook at this and rewrite it just for shits and giggles in a very traditional style and see how it differs.  See if you can get across what you're after, while giving better visuals.  Write it out in full sentences.  Don't use subject Slugs.  Set your scenes properly and completely by adding some visual ques and descriptions.  Intro and name your characters properly.  Watch your verb tense - keep it all active.  Use lead in words like "a" and "the".

I bet you can write this same script in the same amount of space and have it read 100% more clearly and visually.  Actually, I know you can.  You may not like that traditional style, but I bet your readers will, and I bet they'll get alot more out of this, because there is true power lurking underneath the odd style choices, but it's hard to really "see", based on your writing choices.

Hope this makes sense and helps.  Take care, man.

Hey Simon,

I move onto your next short and I love the logline "a man makes a rash decision" Your character is called Rash, tell me this is intentional. ;D

A nice touch with the antag turning the tables and becoming the protag if you will. I'm not sure what he means by Rash treating him bad, he seemed to be doing his best. I think the fact that we never know what he told Billy to say leaves that side of it a bit mysterious for the reader.

I was unsure why he needed the money so bad, they always seemed to be eating.

A difficult job when dealing with a disability and I think you did okay here, you revealed a little but not too much. I would have liked to seen Rash have more of an inner struggle with his predicament, hating his brother for holding him back or something along those lines but on the whole, not a bad story. Certainly easier to follow then Cat.

There were a few awkward phrases but this was mainly dialogue heavy. Again, I did feel you didn't give your settings any life. I think you've heard enough about your writing now. I'll give you this, it's different but not to every one's taste.

Some notes I took:

P.1 "trying to drag his attention." Wondered if drag should have been "draw"

P.2 Owner isn't capped on first intro. And the woman.

"EXT. GROCERY STORE - CONTINUOUS - DAY" Day isn't needed if it's continuous. Doesn't really matter but might as well mention it.

P.3 "Rash screw it up," should be screws.

"Like a Private Eye’s place." I need more than that I'm afraid... I've never been in a Private Eye's place.

"DOG, (55)." Huh? Not the bounty hunter, right? I wonder what happened to him. ;D

P.4 "Asian lady" Was this the woman from before? If so you need to be consistent with her description. Asian lady turns to woman in the next sentence. They could be different people for all I know.

P.5 If he's only concerned about feeding Billy, put the milk back and just buy the bread. Water should be sufficient to drink.

"Billy and Rash, at the table - they eat." That's twice where they've been eating after not getting any food from the grocery? Where is it coming from?

"Dog’s looking pissed." Do you mean angry or drunk? :P

P.6 "an first floor office." An should be a.

P.7 "(to phone)" I don't think you need this wrylie as you've stated in the action he's on the phone.

Who's driving the car if Dog's in the rear seat?

"Dog exits and ambles toward Billy" Should this be Rash?

Good work. :)

Steve

Sorry I'm being so slow to respond.

Ectoplasm - Thanks for the read - appreciated.
------------
Bill - Yeah, Steve brought up some valid points there. I did wonder if Billy need a few more words, and the point at which he meets Dog would be good point to give him that shot. I didn't want to spoon-feed too much, b ut it's sometimes tricky just getting that balance right. Cheers for the read, though.
-------------
Jeff - Thanks for reading. I get your point with the staccato style - I agree that it can be used very effetively where deployed well. You raise the points of 'clarity and visualisation'. I tend to write with 'clarity and brevity' in mind, and this clearly has its shortcomings. I can't totally agree that the script has failed in the clarity stakes, but I do agree that more shortcomings are to be found in the area of visualisation.

I agree the Grocery store need a little more - when I read scipts, I'll often say 'describe the location well when first intro'd', and then go and give it no description at all in my own script. A bit dim, but easy to overlook.

I understand you sensibilities, but unfortunately, I'm quite into a bit of grammar-abuse when I think it suits the script -- but I can see that I've moved into the early habit-forming stage of misuse - that can be corrected, though.

I'll also concede that page two grocery store visit could be seen as confusing: In my mind, these things were happening at once, which is why they were crammed (somewhat uncomfortably) together.

Ellipses ... mmmm ... as far as I understand, there should be a space between the preceding word and the ellipse where the ellipses represents a missing, as there would be a space had the word not been missed (although few seem to adhere to this).

Thanks for the read, Jeff. As usual, lots of insightful points - and as you know me, I'll still be chewing on what I haven't fedback on as much as what I have.
---------------
Coop - nice read there, thanks. Of course Rash was intentional - you didn't need to ask!

On Dog believing Rash treats Billy badly - Dog never sees Rash doing all the cleaning, washing, looking after Billy etc. It's like you work hard and do 100 things that nobody sees you do, then make one rash decision - and bang! penalty to pay. I was hoping to create a kind of 'who's right and who's wrong - difficult to say' kind of thing.

And by the way - leave my exclamations marks out of this - I like them!  ;D

Thanks for the notes - you make a whole bunch of valid points there, and I'll go correct. Let me just pick up a couple of things though:

p5. 'Put the milk back, water should be sufficient'. Bread and Water! Quit with the Dickens' books!

They do get the food from the grocery store, but it's all on tick.

I guess the driver's driving the car ... ? I doubt you'd be able to see him through the windowscreen anyway. Or Dog's just got real long arms?

Cheers for the read Coop - it's appreciated.

Hello, Simon.

You've been busy. Two scripts in two days--impressive!

I had an issue with the writing style. In Cat the incomplete or abruptly ended sentences built tension. Here they are just annoying, a real distraction.

Reading the name "Rash" just brought "the irritation of skin" to mind or an Eighties punk rocker, but not a guy who makes 'rash' decisions. This kid should be named "Bad" because he makes god-awful decisions. By the way, the name "Rash" is never spoken in the dialog.

Overall, this is a good story, even if it is underwritten. Two to four more pages of story possibly conveying Rash's guilt over what he did to Billy and possibly conveying the sense of relief he may feel not having to take care of Billy anymore would give the story more emotion and profundity. Also, I would have liked to have seen Billy working around Dog's place. Maybe even show Dog bestowing some avuncular affection upon Billy. Nothing too saccharine, but just enough to  make the reader feel it's sincere but that it could also be mockery. Of course, you may have written this ambiguously on purpose. If that's the case please forgive me for telling you how to write your story.

Best regards,
rmaze.

rmaze - thanks for the read, I appreciate you taking your time out.

I'd agree that the style here should be a little slower - a little more thoughtful. I think the script would have worked better for it - you're spot-on with that one. Accepting the mistakes of the other other script, it's a style more suited to it.

I like the idea of showing Dog's relationship with Billy - this would challenge Dog's attitude and give some character arc that I think would be unexpected.

Cheers for the read - you've made some really good points.

Hey Simon.

Good to see new content from SS vets.
Glad to crack this one open and see what's inside...

P. 1
This line confused me...
he taps his fingers like he’s praying.

Does that mean he's touching his fingertips together as if in prayer?

P. 7
Did Rash just abandon Billy?
Or is there a plan here?
This scene could use some narrative clarification.

P. 8
Dog and Rash's back and froth is the best reading part of the script so far.
The pages are so sparse and unusually punctuated, it's a bit of a slow read for me.

Just when it was getting interested, it ended.
I liked the dilemma of Rash coping with using his brother that way.
That part of the story could be expanded upon.
Consequences. Characters Against Type. Conflict. That's the good stuff! ;D

Regards,
E.D.

Simon

Similar to Cat, this left me confused with a couple of questions.

Again I appreciate your minimal style, with some tweaks and honing it could become a very effective and economical style but unfortunately the dialogue is even more cryptic and truncated than Cat, giving very little away to the point of not making much sense sometimes.

What I grasp is that Rash is looking after his mentally retarded brother Billy. Money is tight, Billy is blissfully ignorant as his weight plummets and the local Asian shop keepers won’t show them any sympathy. Rash goes to some loan shark or just a shifty character called Dog who gives him money at 50 percent interest (rather high but anyway) Then Rash appears to spend all the money in very  short space of time on food yet he still gets turned away by the Asians. Is this because they don’t trust Billy in the shop or what?

He sends Billy to Dog to play on his sympathy as the loan agreement has gone sour (Rash comes across as a complete idiot here) Dog holds on to Billy (to do what, outside of cleaning, I fear to even contemplate!) and as punishment for trying to pull such a trick. Rash is left with the guilt and shame of his actions and that’s really it…at least from what I can surmise. Are we to take Dog’s side for taking Billy away from such an irresponsible guardian? Thematically this has a backbone thus potential, narrative-wise however, it’s uneven and murky.

Can you help me out here?

Regards

Col.

HI ED - sorry, didn't see you'd replied to this - thanks for the pointers.

Like the 'Cat' script, I've updated this one to iron out some of the errors, but not posted an updated yet.

Your p1. - yes.

Yup - and I agree that expansion (with an improved writing style could improve this one).

Thanks for the read!

Hi Col - thanks for the read - I agree this needs a different style than 'Cat'.

The principle story is that Rash can't cope with Billy - the shopowners are reluctantly giving him produce, but he is building up a bill with them.

When Rash lends the money, he thinks on it, but realise he can't afford to pay it back - but Dog still wants the interest:
p5 Dog: 'You can give it back, but the rate applies.'

As Rash can't afford to pay the money back, in an act of cowardice he send Billy, and Dog decised to keep Billy on the basis that Rash can't and isn't taking proper care of him.

There is meant to be an element of ambiguity to it - Dog is probably very capable of taking care of Billy, and Rash clearly isn't.

I agree re-reading it now (6 months later) that some of the dialogue is quite criptic - but I think most of it there -- it's not all laid out obvious.

Thanks for the read none-the-less - appreciated.

Quoted from Forgive When Rash lends the money, he thinks on it, but realise he can't afford to pay it back - but Dog still wants the interest: p5 Dog: 'You can give it back, but the rate applies.'

- I stand corrected on this point, it does make more sense now.

Like I said, this has some strong themes running through it to make a decent script.

Best of luck with it.

Hey Simon,

I think the basic premise of this story is quite effective. Unfortunately, I feel like you could write a summary for it and it'd still about cover all the substance that comes out of the script itself. That is, not much.

I think this essentially boils down to your writing style, which, between this and Cat, I've seen referred to as "staccato" style. On a purely visual basis, it leaves much to be desired. I had an extremely difficult time visualizing much of anything in the script. This is probably the quickest way to disengage your reader and indeed, I didn't feel all that engaged at all. On an emotional level, I think this style sucks the life out of the story.

The bath scene would be a prime example of this. You get the point across, sure. But that's it. I got no sense of how Rash feels about his relationship with Billy? Is he utterly content with this routine of caring for his brother? Is it a breeze for him or is everyday a struggle? Does it wear him out? Does he ever resent his brother for what he's required to do or does his love give him the strength to carry on? If this is all easy for Rash, do he and his brother ever enjoy their time together or is it indeed routine? Dull, cyclic?

I suppose I may be unloading a lot on you but I feel like there's many a simple thing you can do to communicate this kind of nuance, even just a laugh or a sigh from the right character. But the rapid-fire nature of the writing style makes it feel like you're simply crossing things off a checklist.

The scenes with Dog are equally devoid of nuance. I really wanted to get a sense of what kind of guy this is. At the end of the day though, all you have to go on is an accent. An accent that took me a moment to get the hang of, btw. Otherwise, he couldn't come off as a gangster or a bank official just as easily either way.

I'm not saying you need to change up your writing style entirely. I've seen this style work before. If you can establish a flow to your writing that is benefited by a more quick-burst style, I'd stick with it. But it shouldn't be at the expense of the elements that make your script resonate, which is most certainly the case at this point.

I've skimmed the comments here and see this has been brought up many a time. I'm sorry to be repeating what's already been said but I do feel that it needs to be driven home as surprisingly, I don't come across many scripts that are done in by the writing style alone. There's definitely some work that needs to be done here though again, I don't think you need to start from scratch, so to speak.

Also, I think this story could go on a little longer. If you can spruce up what you've got thus far, first and foremost, I'd consider seeing where this little yarn goes.

Finally, your logline's a little dull. I read this script yesterday and the only reason I opted to do so was that it was at the top of the portal. It's a simple story but that doesn't mean your description couldn't pop a little more.

Hope this helps.

Hi Simon,

First, I haven't gone through all the comments, so sorry if any of this repeats.

I liked the script, I felt for the brother. I would say though, that it was so "tight" in its read that I felt I was getting whiplash, I had to go back just to see if I missed something, but then again maybe it was just me. However, I felt it could use a bit more detail to really pull me into the world.

Perhaps I was a little lost as to why Dog would want to take care of someone like Billy, did I miss something about their relationship that would explain this? If i did, I blame it on the whiplash ;)...

I both like and dislike the way it ended, and not because it ended bad, but because I wanted to see Rash get his brother back, so I felt cheated a bit, but the fact I felt this about the character makes me think," there is something to this script" and that's good. You set up a great premise, I guess I would love to have seen it resolved a bit more... but that's always the frustrating part of a cliffhanger, which is how I found the ending to be.

Here's a "nod" to you, for a good script. I look forward to reading more.

Cheers.

@James - thanks for the read. Yeah, this is a bit of an old script now - the staccato-esque 'style' is something that I've cut out/back on in my writing unless needed. I think that whole thing was part of the process of getting the style right.

In regard to the visuals, I don't think that is a function of the writing style - I now write in more visual aspects - (albeit non-staccato), but I take a little more care to specify visual factors.

Some people have different point of views when it comes to some of the things you have referred to. Rash, for example - I didn't think it was so necessary to explain so explicity the nature of the relationship with Billy, as I think putting the pieces together, it was fairly clear. Some people prefer less oblique techniques, other not. I guess it's a matter of taste.

Having said that, I agree with your point on nuance - but as I'm sure you know, that is a tricky balance - especially when it comes to dictating how the character should be portrayed - there has be to space for interpretation. It's interesting, I was reading a script here just yesterday (a Rambo re-work), and compared it with one of the originals - in the original, no-where did it say "Rambo's this peed off guy with unresolved issues", but it was in the subtext, which you'd have to derive if you were to portray the character. And I certainly don't feel all portrayals are spot on ...

Anyway, this has had a bit of a re-write, but I've not uploaded it yet - but it could probably do with another look. Seeing as it's getting attention all of a sudden I best figure out how to re-load it. :)

Thanks for the read - you've made a lot of very pertinent points. Cheers.

@KAlbers - Hi thanks for the read - I checked your website and see that you have one up here - I'll give a read this evening.

Yeah, my writing has loosened up some since I wrote this - it was all part of the learning curve. I've a script up on Talentville (Take The Boy), should you wish to compare.

Dog taking care of Billy will always be to some people a little bit of a leap of faith, some okaying it other not. Dog has a couple of motivations - initially the money (he could hold Billy until Rash pays - Dog: "Holding on to him f’ now.") but Dog believes Rash is not capable of looking after Billy and Dog is affronted by what Rash has done (Dog: "I wouldn’t treat a dog like you treat him."), and Dog clearly has the resources (he has a driver). But either you go for this or you don't (can't keep everyone happy ...).

Cheers for the read, though - and I'll do the return.

Hey Simon

I didn't read any other feedback, so sorry if I repeat anything.

It was a nice short and very quick read, with minimal characters and locations it would we easy to shoot.

Unless it's a nickname "Rash" doesn't seem appropriate, as his brother has a straightforward name "Billy"

I liked the whole "brother looking after younger brother" theme and it played out well, there were a few little nitpicks, but not enough to distract from the main core of the story.

I liked the twist at the end, Dog taking his brother as payment... out of the frying pan into the fire... springs to mind, although he is probably better off... does anybody know the number for social services????



Page 3

Rash screw(s) it up

Page 6  "to (a) first floor office’.

Overall good job Simon
Mark

Mark

Quoted Text (can't keep everyone happy ...).

Truer words have never been spoken....

Quoted Text Dog taking care of Billy will always be to some people a little bit of a leap of faith, some okaying it other not.

I can take the leap of faith, but I can also see how the story can be expanded to make it that much better.

I do see this one has been around awhile, do you have any newer scripts I could check out?

Cheers, Kev.

@Irish Eyes - Rash will be re-named - promise. I can take (a heap of) hints  ;D

@KAlbers - only on TV at the moment - but if you're on that site you can check it out.

Simon,

I gave this a read when I saw all the other positive reviews and I won't try to repeat what other have said.  I do like your writing style--it has a kind of The Usual Suspects type of short, clippy staccato style to it.  Others may not care for that, and that's fine--everyone has their own taste for what they like and don't like.

I'm sure you're UK based on a lot of the dialogue and action, and that makes it difficult sometimes for U.S. readers to follow (e.g., the weighting scale reading eight stone, and a bedsit-what is that? Is that a bedroom?), but you may have a specific target audience in mind.

I will say that one thing you do that is a little distracting to the reader is the constant use of contractions ("Rash’s looking frantic,"  "Dog’s looking pissed," "Owner’s pushing Billy out,").  Again, that may be solely a British thing, but it means you're also constantly switching from the passive to the active and back to the passive throughout your action lines.  I would try to stay consistent and stay away from -ING ending verbs, so that it's "Rash looks frantic,"  "Dog looks pissed," etc.  Makes for a much better (and easier) read for us.

I agree with some of the others that there probably ought to be some backstory or added material to explain why Dog would want to take Billy on, especially given his condition.  I mean, does it makes financial sense to take him on as opposed to taking back Rash's money (even without the interest)?  Surely there would need to be more of an underlying reason for his actions.

Otherwise, I think this is a pretty good piece.  Good job!

Gary