Why are tonal shifts looked down on?  Having the same tone throughout the entire movie can be a bit boring.  Now, I'm not saying that you should go from light-hearted romantic comedy to nihilistic drama, nor should you switch back and forth every ten minutes.  But a well-executed one (usually halfway or two-thirds into the movie, and only one shift) can change a whole movie experience for me.

I mean, think of Shaun of the Dead.  It's all fun and games until they go to the bar and Simon Pegg has to shoot his own mother and leave his best friend behind.  It gets really serious and doesn't return to its funny roots until the last scene of the movie (where Nick Frost is a zombie).

I really like tonal shifts.  Why are they bad?

They're not inherently bad, just difficult to pull off. Most directors who try fail.

I always think of "Super" as a great example of that. It's mostly a comedy but the last fifteen minutes or so are really surprising and dramatic, and the ending itself is just flat-out depressing. I really liked the movie overall, but that was such a dramatic shift in tone that it kind of made the movie feel like James Gunn couldn't decide if he wanted it to be funny or not.

Quentin Tarantino and P.T. Anderson are two directors who are brilliant at it. "Magnolia" shifts between comedy to drama and even to operatic, over-reaching melodrama every few scenes. And it's genius.

1. They are looked down on because most people who create them weren't trying to...they start off writing onew thing and veer off.

2. Messes up the genre, therefore audience expectation and ability of marketing department to advertise. So they don't tend to sell too well.

3. As Matt says above...most of the time they don't work. Comedic shifts undermine serious stuff etc. See Phantom Menace...where there were tonal shifts from scene to scene and the whole thing was a mess. An Epic Battle for a planet doesn't mix well with Jar Jar Binks.

Some tones/styles are clearly more naturally related...like you can have "drama" with every genre. Shift to Slapstick comedy in the middle of Gladiator, for instance...not going to play out too well, probably.

It mostly has to do with expectations. People select movies based on who they are and how they feel at the time. Movies can also set moods for someone as it plays and when that tone abruptly shifts or gets muddled somewhere in the middle, it can leave someone confused. Consider life. you're with your significant other making out and getting hot and heavy and all of a sudden, they right out slap you and walk away. Night's over, and you're wondering what the hell just happened. Movies that do that don't sit well with the audience because they wanted some action and got frustration instead. Can you do it? Sure, if it feels natural, but it has to lead very slowly and naturally into the change.

The same can go for genre mash-ups. one movie that sticks with me as the worst genre mash-up I've ever seen is Corpse Bride. Gothic horror romantic comedy. Seriously, what the hell was that? And it didn't change tones. It ran with that genre throughout the whole thing. I didn't know what to think when it was over since the emotional state one is in through those different genres is so vastly different.

If you've got a solid story that would work with a tone shit in the middle, then go for it. Just know that stories have themes and tones for the audience to identify with, and if your audience can't identify with what you're doing, then you have failed.

"But I wrote it for me!" said the bad writer who never sold anything.

It goes along with movies that are advertised one way but end up being completely different. A good example is those dramatic comedies that are advertised as comedies to make more money. Marley & Me and The Breakup were both advertised as funny and but light movies and end up being horrifyingly depressing.

Having a movie that starts one way and then changes is like having previews lead the audience one way and then send them another. It can work, and if done right can be outright genius, but that's the thing, you may need to be a genius to pull it off.

Good topic and question.

I suppose we are have our preferred genre and whilst I like many, my aspiration is that of dramedy - you know, comedy interlaced with drama. To me this is like the full monty and IMO Ground Hog day. Both are funny but long periods are not and at their heart they deal with deep issues and change.

As such, combining a drama story with depth, eg for the full monty potential male suicide, unemployment, divorce, relationship with your son etc is blended with humour.

My observation is that mixing these is fine if;

Each element is consistent
They are compatible
You get lucky!!

I can picture the problems with tonal shift if not intended.

The best directors - and writers for that matter - oscillate tone with aplomb. They do it so effectively that it's not considered an erroneous handling of tone. If your story doesn't 'tonal shift', it's likely one-dimensional.

I disagree with that. I think what he means by tonal shift is making a drama into a comedy halfway through the movie.

Most dramas have comedic moments and most comedies have dramatic moments. The best ones at least. But to just completely abandon your genre and tone you need to know exactly what you're doing and why without losing your audience.

In truth, if this is the first movie you're trying to sell - then stick to genre.  Don't sway or waver your tone.  

If after you sell your first and you're brought onto a project with a director who agrees with your vision then do what ever the hell he wants.  

If you're going the independent route then do whatever the hell you want.  If you're going to make it, who cares.  

However, if you want other people to make your film strict adherence to genre and consistent tone are the best way to go.

Quoted from Felipe I disagree with that. I think what he means by tonal shift is making a drama into a comedy halfway through the movie. Most dramas have comedic moments and most comedies have dramatic moments. The best ones at least. But to just completely abandon your genre and tone you need to know exactly what you're doing and why without losing your audience.

I disagree here for the most part -- Shallow Hal is one example of why it doesn't always work.  We are to laugh and be merry the entire flick because this overweight dude doesn't like overweight  women, but then we get to the part where he enters a burn victims unit and all of a sudden the audience shifts into a weird, awkward state of "I dunno if I'm supposed to laugh anymore" and the "Now I feel like a jerk for laughing earlier on" moment.

Of course the movie sucked either way and didn't muster even a slight smile on my face -- but examples like these show that comedies should be comedies "Not another teen movie"  and "Wet Hot American Summer" come to mind here and they are nothing more than comedies... When you mix drama with comedy it sends the viewer into an awkward stage more often than not.

Drama's can have comedic bits in them... My favorite movie of all time is "Magnolia" and I laugh every time Frank T.J. Mackey says "The battle of the bush is being fought and won by Frank T.j. Mackey."  It probably isn't meant to be funny, but it damn sure is -- And that is the best part of comedy to me.  Real moments of inner comedy due to character delivery -- Not a manufactured line for a laugh.

Cinemachado is correct that comedy has elements of drama, as well as the other way around. It shouldn't usually be deep, melodramatic stuff, like the scene from Shallow Hal. But there still should be elements of drama.

Unless it's the Three Stooges. Then no drama needed.

Also, even when genre changes, tone can remain the same, such as with From Dusk Til Dawn, which goes from crime to horror, but the tone is always the same: popcorn violence laced with humor.

It's difficult to do because the viewer expected one thing and got another which isn't always a bad thing of course...the unexpected can make a movie stand out from the rest.

Comedies are mostly the worst offenders, Marley & Me stuck in my mind as well as the movie Click which became rather depressing but that might just be Adam Sandler to be fair. ;D

The Descent started off very dramatic, woman losing family and then takes a trip with friends but was very much full-on horror by the end.

Quoted from Felipe I disagree with that. I think what he means by tonal shift is making a drama into a comedy halfway through the movie. Most dramas have comedic moments and most comedies have dramatic moments. The best ones at least. But to just completely abandon your genre and tone you need to know exactly what you're doing and why without losing your audience.

Tonal shift is a slippery term that means different things to different people it would seem.

Of course, one should note at this point with the word "drama" being tossed around like it belongs in its own category that all stories should contain drama. In fact, drama is what a plot really is. Movies are dramatic presentations, so whatever you happen to write should have drama of some kind in it.

The tonal shift that seems to go wrong is when something comedic radically shifts into something serious or vice versa. Or when something horrific shifts into the equivalent of a Mel Brooks film.

This would be a film starting with Saw, moving into Young Frankenstein, and ending with Steel Magnolias. Your audience will give you a solid "WTF?" no matter how you swing that.

I think, that like many things, it's more something that you have to deal with cautiously, and when people say "use caution" it quickly gets translated to "avoid". Tone and Genre are different things, but a persistent tone can end up establishing the genre.

I think getting these things right is largely about getting the 'feel' of the film correct - so 'Shaun of the Dead' is a good example, as when  they are in the pub, people who matter start to get killed (Shaun's Mum being one). From there and to going into the basement, they're in a dark place - facing their own demise, so naturally you would expect a tone shift - and it works well because after that period, we're brought back to the comedic nature of the film at the ending.

So a correctly placed and interpreted tonal shift works well within and for the film -- whereas just doing it 'cos you've gotten lost or runout of ideas, is just going to kill it. JMO.

When it comes to personal writing, I'm a big fan of tonal VARIETY.

For instance, I always knew I wanted my newest feature to be... FUN.
I think too many action/thrillers in recent decades have abandoned that, why?
Because it's friggin hard to write! ;D

In addition to the fun, there's lots of tonal side trips...
High stakes action. Suspense. Mystery. Romance. Comedy.

But the "rudder" that steers all those is the underlying tone of fun.
For me, once the rudder's in the proverbial water, then I can splash around! ;D

Regards,
E.D.

Well, I for one go through a lot of tonal shifts and I can tell you Frederick. They are BAD. I think it has something to do with all the earthquakes and Fukishimas and weather not permitting and such, but I abpositively don't like them at all.

Here's the scenario: I'm working on a project with these "apparently strict" perceptions of what I'd like it to be like mood and all, but ohhh no. The Man's gotta mess with me. I've learned (well maybe not) but I'd like to think I've learned to accept it.

In any case, you get "normal" people all hyped up and ready for "what they think they need". A dose of comedy. A dose of blood and guts or some shit like that. And I guess you really ruin their pipe dream if you don't follow through.  ;D ;D ;D

Sandra

I went to see Ice Age 4 today (with the Wife & kids of course) - and it's a weird film etc, but the Wife (who know nothing about this kind of stuff) said the only thing she didn't like about it was when they burst into song - she couldn't figure out why they did that - if anyone's seen it - there's one bit where the pirates (yeah, they're stretching it) suddenly burst into song - for no reason any only once. Sticks out like a sore thumb - really the way not to do it.

Apparently in Ice Age 5 they're going to do fancy dress.