A lot of scripts, I feel like, seem to be inspired by a certain scene or type of scene, rather than the story that the scene belongs to. A good example is a short script that's written by someone inspired by your typical soapy, dramatic exchanges between two lovers or former lovers. Rather than taking a look at the larger tapestry behind that scene, the writer just incorporates that scene into their story because they like it, it's dramatic, and they think that will automatically make their work good. Ultimately, they do it without ever examining why it's good, if it actually works without the rest of the story to motivate it, or if it'll even be good or interesting.

Does anyone have any idea what I'm saying at this point?

Really, I feel like a lot of scripts produce the same results and I'm trying to work backwards, looking for a cause. In other words, why do all relationship dramas have to feel like a soap opera?

If I'm totally off my rocker, please don't hesitate to chime in and respectfully say so. ;) But I'm really hoping a lot of you kinda get what I'm saying and we'll get a deep discussion going about it. I think it's a really important topic to explore.

I do believe in the old adage...

Hacks borrow. Pros steal.

I tend to watch a lot of "relevant" movies when brewing a story.
I'll examine why those films work.
And how I can use that philosophy, not scene, to further my tale.

Scenes live or die by the thought processes implemented by the writer.
So, in theory, if you're copying, there's no life on the page.
I try to take that slice of thunder and infuse it into my realized characters.

For instance, here's the "Big Five" for Clone Wife:

Peggy Sue Got Married
Tootsie
Creator
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Electric Dreams.

So, I'll break down scenes in a notebook while I watch.
I've seen all these movies AT LEAST three times each.
All the while educating myself about why they work while I watch.

E.D.

Totally agree Dan.  And it's funny that E.D. mentioned Eternal Sunshine because I'm actually looking to that movie for ideas right now.

I find that every once and a while, I'll write down an idea for a scene, not a feature.  I'll play around with it and when I feel like it's great, I'll start building an entire story around that one scene.  A lot of times I feel like it'll ultimately head for disaster but think that that particular scene will anchor it down and keep it steady.

I'm not sure if what I've written is what you were talking about but most of what I've written thus far has been inspired by a single scene.  Probably not the best way to approach a feature but what can ya say.

Dan, maybe you can give us a couple of examples from movies where you feel like this is especially egregious so that we have a better idea of what you're pointing towards.  

It could be that what bothers you is that a movie might have a bunch of scenes which on their own work okay, but not in the larger context of the movie and that there needs to be more of a connection to the story, so that the scene (as well as all the other scenes) drives you to the whole point of the story?

But maybe you were going for something else entirely.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer I tend to watch a lot of "relevant" movies when brewing a story. I'll examine why those films work. And how I can use that philosophy, not scene, to further my tale.

I've heard of this before. Sometimes I do it.

Quoted Text Scenes live or die by the thought processes implemented by the writer. So, in theory, if you're copying, there's no life on the page.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I guess the part I left out of my original post was do you think it's a trend/bad habit that's a lot more common than it should be and if it's really addressed enough?

Quoted from RegularJohn I find that every once and a while, I'll write down an idea for a scene, not a feature.  I'll play around with it and when I feel like it's great, I'll start building an entire story around that one scene.  A lot of times I feel like it'll ultimately head for disaster but think that that particular scene will anchor it down and keep it steady. I'm not sure if what I've written is what you were talking about but most of what I've written thus far has been inspired by a single scene.  Probably not the best way to approach a feature but what can ya say.

Yes, I think this is what I'm saying I don't like. But I feel like some writers, unlike you, don't even play around with scenes before dropping them in. They just come across a spot in their story or work towards a spot in the story when they think the stereotypical soap opera argument is supposed to occur, then they go at it, guns blazing. Their story doesn't really call for it, but they throw it in anyway and try to make the dialogue as dramatic and 'moving' as possible.

Guesswork is what you call it. I guess.

Quoted from Gary in Houston Dan, maybe you can give us a couple of examples from movies where you feel like this is especially egregious so that we have a better idea of what you're pointing towards.   It could be that what bothers you is that a movie might have a bunch of scenes which on their own work okay, but not in the larger context of the movie and that there needs to be more of a connection to the story, so that the scene (as well as all the other scenes) drives you to the whole point of the story? But maybe you were going for something else entirely.

It's not really particular movies that do it, but just scripts here on Simply or written elsewhere by people at a beginning/intermediate skill level.

I don't think you understood what I was saying, though. (I don't blame you.)

I'm talking about a common trend where beginning writers go with their guts. They're so enthusiastic and pumped to be writing, think they know it all, and write the best script ever--their words--because every scene is a really good argument between two characters who cuss at each other a lot because they're angry.

Originally, I thought Nomad's script was kind of like this, but then I re-read it twice more and got a completely different story. But when I thought it was something like this, that's when I started this post. I thought it was basically just a separated couple having it out for each other and every line of dialogue was just an attempt by one person to one-up the other. There's a bit more to Nomad's dialogue than that, but there's a lot of other scripts out there where there's not.

I want to say like 65% of the scripts I read have this problem. And I think it's because the writers see great movies with great, emotional scenes and they try to emulate the emotion without understanding the context or its purpose or the broader story.

Hope that's a better explanation.

Yes, that totally makes sense.  I have seen some scripts on this site where they are essentially trying to recreate Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson's court standoff in "A Few Good Men," just in a different setting.  And the scene by itself might be well-written, but really doesn't drive the story anywhere because of a lack of an inherent connection with the overarching story.  Now maybe there's some sub-text that the characters are getting at, but many of the writers don't really sell the sub-text well enough to make you understand how it's a part of the larger story.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being influenced by films that you find intriguing or moving or inspirational.  I think the problem becomes where writers think that they HAVE to write in a certain way to get noticed, so they parrot what they've seen onscreen.   I would rather see something original and that's not the greatest piece of writing, because that can always be improved upon with some editing and polish.   Gotta find your own voice and have a good story.   And you need to be able to convey the voice and story on to the computer screen.  That's where I'm still struggling, because I just don't want to mimic what others have done.

Dan, I really don't think anyone is trying to emulate another writer or copy a style. I think it's just extremely hard to write a really good script that accomplishes what you want.

For example, let's say you outline in pretty good detail. And let's say your outline says this: scene # 32 - Quentin argues with Martin over who caused the car accident.

It seems pretty straightforward, but when you actually come to that scene you'll find out there are a lot of little things as far as the story line that you have to accomplish. For example, maybe there is some expository piece of information you need to include here. Or maybe there is some important step in Martin's character development.

So when it comes to executing the scene, it becomes much harder than just having an argument with clever dialogue.

The pros will make this seem fully natural. But anyone less than a pro is libel to make a mistake. So the dialogue might seem forced, or the scene just might stick out as not organic to the story.

But this has nothing to do with the writer thinking he knows it all or the writer trying to emulate someone. It's the writer doing his best and not quite succeeding.

You'll see that in every script here. We're all learning to master the process, and it's very hard. Once someone does master it, and very few do, they won't be posting work online. So we won't see it. That's why Scriptshadow was so important for me, because it gave me the chance to read writers that have reached that level.

Hawkeye:

You nailed it. You went from not getting it at all to understanding it perfectly. Thank you!

LK:

Your argument's valid and it might explain a few of the scripts I've read, but I still can't help feeling that some people are, as Hawkeye so perfectly suggested, emulating scenes like Cruise vs. Nicholson from A Few Good Men. Unlike your example, I don't think there are any expository pieces of information or bits of character development to be accomplished in these scenes. It's just drama for drama's sake. You might think there's a good reason behind it, and I hope there is, but I really doubt it sometimes.

My concern is that it's a beginner's mistake that goes unnoticed for a while before the writer just figures it out. No one ever calls it out to save the writer some time. It's just always left up to the n00b to learn about story structure, if they even bother to do it. As a result, we're inundated with a few good rehashes of scenes we've already seen or read a million times.

When you read someone's scripts, you can only point out so many problems. And you don't want to be discouraging. We all need some incubation time when we start out.

And yes, that is why learning structure is so important. I don't mean some modelof structure necessarily, a story can have its own structure. As long as when you structure it, everything that's there is what needs to be there and when. And it takes practice. Many scripts. I'm thinking in my case, maybe a couple hundred!

Quoted from DanBall This is pretty much what I'm saying. I guess the part I left out of my original post was do you think it's a trend/bad habit that's a lot more common than it should be and if it's really addressed enough?

Copying doesn't work in a creative process.
Because then it ceases to be creative. :)

And yeah, a lotta gurus preaching at pitch cons won't tell you this. :P

E.D.

It's hard to be original since their's going to be that guy who said, "I've seen this before."

And I agree with Kev, it's hard to write a right script. You, the writer, are going to critique so much that...I can't come up with an analogy for this. lol. You'll love it at first and then despise it later. lol.

And then add upon that time, (if the script gets picked up) funds, other people's opinion, and so forth. It's effing crazy. But for some odd reason, some of us would like that experience. lol

Gabe