Jack Flannigan by Alex Sarris (Alex_212) - Short, Horror, Suspense - On the far side of Loch Lomond lives a possessed Jack Flannigan, who seeks revenge against the descendants of those that turned his life into a living HELL. - pdf, format 8)

Hey Alex,

How you been, buddy? All good I hope.

This one isn't bad, more of an "old wise tale" or "urban legend" than an actual story and I could see grandparents telling this tale to scare the children for whatever reason - maybe to keep them away from the loch. ;D At this moment, it's very predictable - I challenge anyone to openly admit that they didn't know where this one was going as soon as the old man started the story but if you didn't, then this line "He takes the descendants of the four boys." was the clincher.

Not saying that's bad and you probably intended it this way, I don't think you were looking to surprise the reader at the end but if you was then I try to be more subtle in the old man's dialogue.

I think you could further enhance the Jack Flannigan back-story by making it more compelling or agonizing - I mean, at the moment he kills the four Children (or teens?) and their descendants for throwing a few pesky rocks which just comes off a little trivial to me. What if the kids fathers inadvertently (or knowingly) kill Jack's family and then he goes into the murky loch to exact revenge only to disappear and this is where the legend starts. I apologize if this comes out like I'm completely changing the idea you had, it's your story, but I think it would be more merited if these children have some meaning to death of his family... just a thought. I also want to mention that the logline really didn't help - "who seeks revenge against the descendants of those that (turned his life into a living HELL.)" I was expecting them to do more I guess.

Also be careful about how he's described, lines like "He was a fair man who kept to himself." made his reaction to the children that more unbelievable to me. Maybe just adding "He was (once) a fair man who kept to himself" But I think the dialogue could be looked at this junction to enhance an imagine of a despondent man who strives to see his family again. Again, lines like "seen on many occasions enjoyin’ a pipe and gazin’ across the waters." had me thinking of a bushy beard man content with life.

I also didn't understand the time change at the beginning? Why did the story move forward 32 years? I thought this was showing the old man rowing towards William's house but that's impossible with the time change. Was it important to show the row boat for half of that opening page? I mean, there is more than enough of the row boat, foggy loch and so on in the rest of the story. That also meant the quick flash of the lit candle went right over my head - didn't understand its relevance?

Writing wise, this is okay - could be tightened up in areas, maybe a few grammar issues but I'm hardly the expert in this area. I would watch out for repetitiveness in the action as it's more recognizable over six pages but on the whole it read fast.

Not bad but I think it has potential to be better - add a few pages, flesh out Jack Flannigan's back-story and maybe introduce William before he meets the old man - I think William needs more, I know he's only 10 but he's very passive at the moment.  What if it's his birthday and he gets told this tale earlier - something about all the descendants go missing when they turn the same age as the teens which obviously just happens to be his age now. Just some different angles to think about.

Best of luck with it, mate. :)

Steve

Hey Steve,

Thanks for your detailed reply as well as being the first to respond.

I wrote this as an entry to the Writer Arena Challenge #4 and came in runner up along side of Dena.

I got some amazing feedback on Writer Arena and thought I would share the script on SS in the hope that a few readers enjoy it.

I did enjoy writing this and have not planned to do a great deal with it other than posting it here and filing a copy for future reference. I am soooooo busy as I have just finished two features and a few episodes of a sitcom so not a lot of time for much else.

The 30 year timeframe flips from the happenings on the Loch to William one of the descendants as Jack comes looking for.

Thanks for the post and your great feedback and we should catch up for a coffee or three real soon !!!!!

Regards Alex

Gave this a read, Alex.  Sorry to say, but the writing is lacking in many respects.  The story is as well, but as Coop said, I agree there is potential.

Your Slug work is poor.  Check it out.  You have 3 unique Slugs within the entire script - LOCH LOMMOND, BEDROOM, and LOCH LOMMOND - HOUSE.  If you read carefully, you'll see these 3 Slugs don't really fit every scene very well.  They're also not very descriptive, and because of that, it's tough to really see much here.

Your writing is awkward and repetitive throughout. Read carefully and see how often you repeat your Slug in your first line beneath it.  Numerous sentences and passages contain multiple subjects, which makes it very hard to know exactly who or what you're writing about.  Check out how often you use words like "murky", "night", etc.  Many of your sentences just aren't written correctly and read very awkwardly.

You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO.

Story-wise, it's OK and as I said earlier, I do see potential, if for no other reason, the unique setting alone gives this potential.

BUT, I think you missed the boat by painting your Antag, Jack, as a nice normal guy.  Like Coop, I just don't see what happeend to set him off and make him turn into some kind of demon or whatever.  Just doesn't work as told.

Also, the opening with the 32 year leap doesn't make any sense.

Finally, I don't see the sense in the scene with William and the "Old Man", who's obviously mis-labeled, because he's clearly Jack Flannigan.  William is in bed reading, and suddenly, this old man appears in a rocking chair?  WTF?  Did I miss something or misread?

Needs some work, but it could be a fun little horror script.

I liked the story, Alex. Some specific notes.

1) this slug...EXT. LOCH LOMOND - HOUSE - DAY

Because you have several scenes on the loch, maybe rethink this one for clarity. Maybe even HOUSE ON THE LOCH - DAY  would be clearer.

2)"A shadow lurks and grips the oars"

Which is it, lurking or paddling? Lurking seems to be the opposite of moving, unless I am mistaken. Caused me to reread.

3) pg3 less confusing if the boy asks "did the devil catch 'em?"

These are minor points, just a bit of tweaking. Good work.

Quoted from KevinLenihan I liked the story, Alex. Some specific notes. 1) this slug...EXT. LOCH LOMOND - HOUSE - DAY Because you have several scenes on the loch, maybe rethink this one for clarity. Maybe even HOUSE ON THE LOCH - DAY  would be clearer. 2)"A shadow lurks and grips the oars" Which is it, lurking or paddling? Lurking seems to be the opposite of moving, unless I am mistaken. Caused me to reread. 3) pg3 less confusing if the boy asks "did the devil catch 'em?" These are minor points, just a bit of tweaking. Good work.

Hey KevinL and thanks for the read and the post.

You prompted me to look up the definition of "Lurks" and I found this:-
Be or remain hidden so as to wait in ambush for someone or something: "a killer lurked in the darkness".
"shadow lurks and grips the oars" I feel he can be lurking and holding something at the same time, like gripping the oars?
If a killer lurks in the darkness, wouldn't he be holding a gun or similar ?

Once again thanks for your read and comments and glad you liked the story.

Alex

Quoted from Dreamscale Gave this a read, Alex.  Sorry to say, but the writing is lacking in many respects.  The story is as well, but as Coop said, I agree there is potential. Your Slug work is poor.  Check it out.  You have 3 unique Slugs within the entire script - LOCH LOMMOND, BEDROOM, and LOCH LOMMOND - HOUSE.  If you read carefully, you'll see these 3 Slugs don't really fit every scene very well.  They're also not very descriptive, and because of that, it's tough to really see much here. Your writing is awkward and repetitive throughout. Read carefully and see how often you repeat your Slug in your first line beneath it.  Numerous sentences and passages contain multiple subjects, which makes it very hard to know exactly who or what you're writing about.  Check out how often you use words like "murky", "night", etc.  Many of your sentences just aren't written correctly and read very awkwardly. You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO. Story-wise, it's OK and as I said earlier, I do see potential, if for no other reason, the unique setting alone gives this potential. BUT, I think you missed the boat by painting your Antag, Jack, as a nice normal guy.  Like Coop, I just don't see what happeend to set him off and make him turn into some kind of demon or whatever.  Just doesn't work as told. Also, the opening with the 32 year leap doesn't make any sense. Finally, I don't see the sense in the scene with William and the "Old Man", who's obviously mis-labeled, because he's clearly Jack Flannigan.  William is in bed reading, and suddenly, this old man appears in a rocking chair?  WTF?  Did I miss something or misread? Needs some work, but it could be a fun little horror script.

Thanks for your comments Jeff and taking the time to do a read though I have already received some amazing feedback and would have to disagree with you on a number of things you have mentioned.

I guess screenplays are subjective and we can't all like the same thing.

"Your writing is awkward" never heard this before as I have had some great feedback from some very talented screenwriters with respect to the quality of the writing. Sure there may be a few things that others may do differently though we are all individually and have different perceptions.

You mention "You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO."
Well there are two named characters because they are the main characters and extra's don't really justify getting a name for the small part they play. The Old-Man remains as Old-Man because giving him the name "Jack Flannigan" would not only make it confusing it would also give the story away.
  
Also if you make a statement like "Very odd typos, misspellings and grammar errors". A statement like that is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Substantiate your claim and specify where the "Odd Typos" exist !!!! So others can respond to these.

Furthermore, I would have to say that a lot of this type of negativity is one of the reasons why I and others do not spend a lot of time on SS anymore. I was always encouraging in my feedback in order to inspire others and feel if you keep knocking someone down, eventually they will either leave or knock back.

Thanks for taking the time to do a read and I am sure you will be responding in due course.

Regards Alex

Hey Alex

But you have the boat cutting through the water. He is rowing. That is not lurking. If he were sitting in his boat silently in the shadows, that would be lurking. I could be wrong, but I see lurking as involving little or no motion. It's more of a waiting. That's what waiting in ambush is...waiting.

Thanks Kevin,

I'll go back and take a look. Appreciated.

Regards Alex

Hey Alex,

So, this was nice little, old-time-y ghost tale.

A few things...

First paragraph of description, you mention that it's a dark and still night when you already have night in the SLUG. And I'm not sure what kind of visual the QUICKFLASH was supposed to give me. I see a candle in the window, but not sure what pathway it lights... is the boat in the background at shore?

Quoted Text INT. BEDROOM - NIGHT William stares at the Old-Man, frightened. OLD-MAN The rumors say... His family was taken by the loch, and this made him bitter. William’s eyes wide open. OLD-MAN Twas also said... That when he went fishin’ in the loch, he could see the reflections of his family in the dark and murky waters. Until one day....

It felt like you had a reaction (maybe you meant William's eyes widen?) just to break up a big dialogue block. But I think you can probably fit all that dialogue in one block.

Also, there's no need to keep mentioning that a character speaks w/ a Scottish accent.

And with the exception of quite a few orphaned words, this was pretty well written overall.

The twist didn't really get me, though. While the old man was telling the story, I felt like the SHADOW in the boat was moving to shore/was at shore at the same time.

So when it's revealed that the old man is actually Jack Flannigan (wouldn't there be some resemblance?), it didn't feel right. Maybe if you hid old man's face in the shadows...

And why were the children throwing rocks at Jack Flannigan? Is he some kind of old coot that all the town's kids throw rocks at or something? Is it because of his wife and kids? Was he to blame for their death? Those kids seemed to have traveled in boat specifically to throw rocks at this guy.

Overall, this was well written, but the legend should be a bit more clear as to why Jack Flannigan's ghost does this.

-- Michael

Quoted from spesh2k Hey Alex, So, this was nice little, old-time-y ghost tale. A few things... First paragraph of description, you mention that it's a dark and still night when you already have night in the SLUG. And I'm not sure what kind of visual the QUICKFLASH was supposed to give me. I see a candle in the window, but not sure what pathway it lights... is the boat in the background at shore? It felt like you had a reaction (maybe you meant William's eyes widen?) just to break up a big dialogue block. But I think you can probably fit all that dialogue in one block. Also, there's no need to keep mentioning that a character speaks w/ a Scottish accent. And with the exception of quite a few orphaned words, this was pretty well written overall. The twist didn't really get me, though. While the old man was telling the story, I felt like the SHADOW in the boat was moving to shore/was at shore at the same time. So when it's revealed that the old man is actually Jack Flannigan (wouldn't there be some resemblance?), it didn't feel right. Maybe if you hid old man's face in the shadows... And why were the children throwing rocks at Jack Flannigan? Is he some kind of old coot that all the town's kids throw rocks at or something? Is it because of his wife and kids? Was he to blame for their death? Those kids seemed to have traveled in boat specifically to throw rocks at this guy. Overall, this was well written, but the legend should be a bit more clear as to why Jack Flannigan's ghost does this. -- Michael

Thanks Michael,

Some great points raised here and I will take them all into account should I do a rewrite once I complete my current projects.

Glad you enjoyed the read and thanks for your time.

Regards Alex

Enjoyed reading this on WA Alex...and I'm happy to share a spot with you! :)

Good job.

Quoted from Pale Yellow Enjoyed reading this on WA Alex...and I'm happy to share a spot with you! :) Good job.

Thanks Dena. You and I buddy !!!!

LUV YA ???

PS. Have a Beer for my while you're on holidays !!!!

Quoted from Alex_212 ...though I have already received some amazing feedback and would have to disagree with you on a number of things you have mentioned.

Really?  Alex, I say this every now and then, but think it often - it amazes me when I hear responses such as this.

I agree 100% that each adn every writer needs to decide what to listen to and what not to, but don't think for a second that just because you've recieved "amazing feedback from very talented writers" that anything new you hear that they didn't say, see, or realize, isn't correct.

I'm just trying to help, and if you don't want that help or think your script is beautifully and flwlessly written, I apologize for jumping in.

Quoted from Alex_212 I guess screenplays are subjective and we can't all like the same thing.

Uhhh...yeah.  Good guess.

Quoted from Alex_212 "Your writing is awkward" never heard this before as I have had some great feedback from some very talented screenwriters with respect to the quality of the writing. Sure there may be a few things that others may do differently though we are all individually and have different perceptions.

Alex, c'mon man.  Seriously?  You've never heard that your writing is awkward?  Never?  I bet if you go back to any thread on SS invovling a script of yours, you'll see at least 1 comment about awkward writing...and if you don't, then these "very talented" writers" that are leaving you feedback are completely missing the boat.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's not meant to put you down or hurt your feeelings, it's meant to help you see the error of your ways.  If you honestly reread this and don't see many, many examples of very awkward writing, then I guess I'm rather speachless.

Quoted from Alex_212 You mention "You also have several very odd typos, misspellings, and grammar errors.  And, why are there only 2 named characters?  Kind of odd, IMO." Well there are two named characters because they are the main characters and extra's don't really justify getting a name for the small part they play. The Old-Man remains as Old-Man because giving him the name "Jack Flannigan" would not only make it confusing it would also give the story away.

"Extras"?  If that's how you feel, Alex, it's your decision to make.

Giving Jack Flannigan his actual name would make it confusing?  How about the other way around?  You are attemtping to hide this character's identity and you're doing a very poor job of it.  In a filmed version, this wouldn't remotely work because it would be obvious this "Old-Man" is Jack Flannigan.
  

Quoted from Alex_212 Also if you make a statement like "Very odd typos, misspellings and grammar errors". A statement like that is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Substantiate your claim and specify where the "Odd Typos" exist !!!! So others can respond to these.

Really?  Alex, it's a 5 1/2 page script...are you saying there aren't any?  How about the most used and obvious - "Old-Man".  What's with the hyphen?  You use both bow and stern to describe the font of a boat.  "foetal"  "cold head" etc, etc, etc.  There's alot more, but based on your dismissive attuitude, why would I want to spend more time highlighting them?

Quoted from Alex_212 Furthermore, I would have to say that a lot of this type of negativity is one of the reasons why I and others do not spend a lot of time on SS anymore. I was always encouraging in my feedback in order to inspire others and feel if you keep knocking someone down, eventually they will either leave or knock back.

Alex, I'm sorry if you take my feedback as being negative.  Being encouraging in your feedback is fine, as long as it's also honest and realistic.  No one is being knocked down - I'm merely trying to point things out to you that noo one else is obviously telling you.

You can't imagine how majy times I've come acros someone doing something completely incorrectly and when I ask why they're doing it that way, they say, they thought it was correct and no one ever told them differently.  If you don't knnow, you don't knnow.  Period.  I want peeps to know and I want them to be better for it.

If you don't want to know anything that remotely negative or not great, keep getting that amazing feedback from those very talented writers and see where it takes you.

PS - Could you please address the 32 year jump in time and how it makes any sense within this script? Also, Jack is intro'd as being 43 years old (in what is most likely an unlabeled FLASHBACK).  The "Old-Man" is 63 years old and William is 10 in 1868.  Does any of this work out and make sense?

Quoted from Dreamscale Really?  Alex, I say this every now and then, but think it often - it amazes me when I hear responses such as this. I agree 100% that each adn every writer needs to decide what to listen to and what not to, but don't think for a second that just because you've recieved "amazing feedback from very talented writers" that anything new you hear that they didn't say, see, or realize, isn't correct. I'm just trying to help, and if you don't want that help or think your script is beautifully and flwlessly written, I apologize for jumping in.

Hey Jeff I never said my script was flawless and never said it didn't have it's share of problems.

I came second along side of Dena in the WA challenge and did get comments like Kudos and Excellent. Just stating a fact here.

Quoted from Dreamscale Alex, c'mon man.  Seriously?  You've never heard that your writing is awkward?  Never?  I bet if you go back to any thread on SS invovling a script of yours, you'll see at least 1 comment about awkward writing...and if you don't, then these "very talented" writers" that are leaving you feedback are completely missing the boat. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's not meant to put you down or hurt your feeelings, it's meant to help you see the error of your ways.  If you honestly reread this and don't see many, many examples of very awkward writing, then I guess I'm rather speachless.

We are not talking about previous screenplays, we are discussing this one.

My writing has come a long way in my time on SS and there is no way that the writing in this script is awkward. Either state where you feel it is awkward or retract your unjustified statement.

Quoted from Dreamscale "Extras"?  If that's how you feel, Alex, it's your decision to make.

Extras !! We are talking about a group of 4 boys and a Lady who knocks on a door at the end. If you had a screenplay with a gathering of people would you name all 43 of them? Really Jeff !!

Quoted from Dreamscale Giving Jack Flannigan his actual name would make it confusing?  How about the other way around?  You are attemtping to hide this character's identity and you're doing a very poor job of it.  In a filmed version, this wouldn't remotely work because it would be obvious this "Old-Man" is Jack Flannigan.

I do realize that it is obvious that the Old-Man is Jack Flannigan and really didn't want to confuse things further by stating that. I do feel it works that way and don't see any need to change it. iMHO.

Quoted from Dreamscale Really?  Alex, it's a 5 1/2 page script...are you saying there aren't any?  How about the most used and obvious - "Old-Man".  What's with the hyphen?  You use both bow and stern to describe the font of a boat.  "foetal"  "cold head" etc, etc, etc.  There's alot more, but based on your dismissive attuitude, why would I want to spend more time highlighting them?

I never said there wasn't any mistakes, you implied it. All I said the writing was not awkward as you have stated it to be.

If you know anything about row boats. A rower faces the back of the boat as he rows. That's the stern. Would you place the boy at the bow of the boat so he is behind you ? It is just common sense and was done intentionally.

Quoted from Dreamscale Alex, I'm sorry if you take my feedback as being negative.

Jeff I feel you have built yourself a reputation on SS. The point is not me receiving negative feedback the point is when someone is blatantly wrong and they know it.

Quoted from Dreamscale You can't imagine how majy times I've come acros someone doing something completely incorrectly and when I ask why they're doing it that way, they say, they thought it was correct and no one ever told them differently.  If you don't knnow, you don't knnow.  Period.  I want peeps to know and I want them to be better for it.

I know what you mean, I have read your post.

By the way Jeff your writing here is vary awkward not to mention the number of typos and spelling mistakes.

Quoted from Dreamscale If you don't want to know anything that remotely negative or not great, keep getting that amazing feedback from those very talented writers and see where it takes you.

Seriously Jeff, I find your attitude is appalling. I have received both good and bad feedback in the past and have thick enough skin to take it.

Generally when the majority agree then that is unanimous and I follow a general consensus.

When it comes from someone who is downright mean and cannot substantiate claims like awkward writing, then I really do not have time for their games.

Have you ever wondered why many newbies come to SS and vary rarely remain ???

Thanks for your feedback Jeff and taking the time to do a read.

Quoted from Alex_212 Hey Jeff I never said my script was flawless and never said it didn't have it's share of problems.

OK, then why all the fuss about some very obvious mistakes that were brought up, as well as a vast number of blatant mistakes that were vaguely referenced?

Quoted from Alex_212 I came second along side of Dena in the WA challenge and did get comments like Kudos and Excellent. Just stating a fact here.

That's great, Alex.  Congratulations.  Does that mean that you don't want to fix any blatant mistakes?  You're one of those "writers" who only wants to hear praise, obviously.  The problem is that the praise doesn't do anything for you, bro.  The critique is what helps, but I guess you're above help, huh?

Quoted from Alex_212 We are not talking about previous screenplays, we are discussing this one.

OK, no problem.  We'll only discuss this one.

Quoted from Alex_212 My writing has come a long way in my time on SS and there is no way that the writing in this script is awkward. Either state where you feel it is awkward or retract your unjustified statement.

Wow...really?  You're really saying this?  You honestly believe there's no awkward writing in this script, huh?  Maybe you don't know what awkward writing even is.  So, just to try 1 last time to open your eyes, I'll list some awkward lines.  You read them back and let me know if you understand why they're awkward.  Can you do that?

Your opening line - "A dark and still night -- A row boat cuts a path through the thick fog."

Your 2nd passage - both lines - "A SHADOW lurks and grips the oars. His deep breaths can be heard through the thick night air."

Your 3rd passage - "Every movement of the oars, takes the row boat closer to a dim lit house in the distance."

Your 4th passage - "A lit candle in the window of the house shines a pathway."

Seriously, basically, ev ery line is awkward, has grammar errors, punctuation errors, etc.  You honestly don't see this or know what I'm talking about?

I'll throw out a few more doozies, just so you know I read through your script again.

"He stands near the house with an axe in hand as he chops firewood."

"A stern of a boat cuts the still waters and heads towards a house.

"They pickup rocks and pelt them towards the house, breaking bits of the dry timber that lines the exterior walls."    

"Jack picks-up his axe and moves towards the Children."

"Rocks bounce off his body as the Children release a continuous stream of missiles."

"An evil stare at the Child as Jack wipes the blood with his index finger."

"The boys run to their boat as fear fills their young faces."

"William looks at the Old-Man curious."

"With an axe in hand, Jack rushes to his colorful row boat and quickly pushes it into the murky waters and jumps in as it floats away."

"William turns pale as he stares at a cold faced Old -Man who lifts a pipe to his mouth."

OK, Alex, is that enouigh examples?  I can't wait to see your reply, saying there's nothing wrong with any of my examples.

Quoted from Alex_212 Extras !! We are talking about a group of 4 boys and a Lady who knocks on a door at the end. If you had a screenplay with a gathering of people would you name all 43 of them? Really Jeff !!

As you stated, we're not talking about 43 people at a gathering, we're talking about a total of 7 characters.  You used 3 different references for Jack Flannigan.  You used "the Children", "the boys", and "the Child" for the 4 lads.  But the best one has to be "Lady", who is obviously William's mother.  I'd love to see a filmed version of this when the credits roll, and see the character "Lady".  WTF?  Really?  You don't see an issue with that?

Quoted from Alex_212 I do realize that it is obvious that the Old-Man is Jack Flannigan and really didn't want to confuse things further by stating that. I do feel it works that way and don't see any need to change it. iMHO.

Alex, Alex, Alex...seriously?  You say this again and don't see the madness in your thinking?  How in the world would you be "confusing things further" by using a character's name in your script?  As I sai earlier, the reality is exactly the opposite.  You really don't get that?  If this is the way you feel, why not just throw out random names and descriptors each time you reference a character?

Quoted from Alex_212 I never said there wasn't any mistakes, you implied it. All I said the writing was not awkward as you have stated it to be.

Well, now that I've thrown out a few examples of the awkward writing, you hopefully won't say that again.

Quoted from Alex_212 If you know anything about row boats. A rower faces the back of the boat as he rows. That's the stern. Would you place the boy at the bow of the boat so he is behind you ? It is just common sense and was done intentionally.

I see.  So, this row boat goes both ways, so to speak, I take it.  Here's 2 quotes from your script regarding the bow and stern of this row boat.

"The bow of the row boat slices into the muddy shore line."

"A stern of a boat cuts the still waters and heads towards a house."

You see my point yet?  Please...stop the madness.

Quoted from Alex_212 Jeff I feel you have built yourself a reputation on SS. The point is not me receiving negative feedback the point is when someone is blatantly wrong and they know it.

Exactly.  I hope you now know you are blatantly wrong.  If you don't, you're either a complete idiot, or a blatant liar.

Quoted from Alex_212 By the way Jeff your writing here is vary awkward not to mention the number of typos and spelling mistakes.

;D ;D ;D  Good one, Alex.  I was a little hammied, most likely.  I think you'll find most posts are poorly and rather quickly written.  Hopefully, this post is written a bit better.

Quoted from Alex_212 Seriously Jeff, I find your attitude is appalling. I have received both good and bad feedback in the past and have thick enough skin to take it.

How in the world is my attitude appalling? Seriously, man.  All I've done is give you free feedback and attempted to help you.  It's your attitude that stinks.  Accept the feedback.  Be gracious for the time spent.  Admit to your numerous mistakes and move on.

Quoted from Alex_212 Generally when the majority agree then that is unanimous and I follow a general consensus.

That's actually a piss poor way to go, bro.  If you have 10 trained chimps read your script and provide feedback, does it really matter what they have to say?  How about 10 first year writers?  Or your Mom and Dad?  Listen to what's right - the majority is not always correct...and if you think they are, you're very foolish.

Quoted from Alex_212 When it comes from someone who is downright mean and cannot substantiate claims like awkward writing, then I really do not have time for their games.

Well, at least now I've substantiated my claims, right?  I never meant to be downright mean and am still not sure where you're getting that.

Quoted from Alex_212 Have you ever wondered why many newbies come to SS and vary rarely remain ???

No, I haven't.  Do you want to share why that is?

Hey Alex,

As for the story, it's quite creepy.  I enjoyed the end, it was pretty disturbing.

A few things that stuck out to me as I read:

" A dark and still night -- A row boat cuts a path through the thick fog."

The way you wrote this, you joined two separate clauses with double hyphens.  From what I understand, double hyphens should be used in the manner as a colon, and only to put critical emphasis on what precedes it.  A double hyphen is going to draw a good amount of attention to the reader, so better make it good.

"Every movement of the oars, takes the row boat closer to a dim lit house in the distance."

This entire line reads awkward.  We already know the oars are in motion.

"A young bright faced WILLIAM O’HARA (10) lies in the bed and flips pages of an old stained book."

Modifiers should be distinguished: young, bright-faced and old, stained.

"William lifts his face from the book. Notices a bearded OLD- MAN (63)"

'Notices a bearded OLD MAN' is a dependent clause, so it should have a conjunction that ties it to the subject.  A double hyphen could actually work here, because it will draw the reader to the surprise of it.  Also, keep the predicate of William going wide-eyed into the sentence somehow, because just "noticing" it kills the flow.

"He stands near the house with an axe in hand as he chops firewood."

I understand why you brought the axe into play here, but it reads weird.  Why not share some creepy characteristics of the axe in a way that builds some tension?

For the most part, there are lines littered throughout that could be tuned up.

OLD-MAN (V.O.)
They say on a still night. Ya’ can ere’ the cries of the wee’ lads as
Jack Flannigan feeds on their flesh and then grinds their bones to dust.

Thats my favorite line of dialogue from the short.  I thought you handled the dialogue in this well, the dialect was fun to follow and aligns itself with the story.

Overall, it was a creepy tale.  That ending was really something, a knock-out IMO.

Later,

Johnny

Seriously Jeff,

I have taken my share of both good and bad feedback so you have no idea what you are talking about and really why change my awkward lines to read different in your post. Get it right dude as it really does show your inexperience and lack of confidence in you own abilities.

I am better than that, and I really am not going to argue by trying to substantiate on your extensive list with someone who wastes my time.

Good luck.

Thanks Johnny for your comments and taking the time to do a read.

Really appreciated.

Regards

Quoted from Alex_212 I have taken my share of both good and bad feedback so you have no idea what you are talking about and really why change my awkward lines to read different in your post. Get it right dude as it really does show your inexperience and lack of confidence in you own abilities.

HUH?  I have no idea what I'm talking about because you have taken your share of both good and bad feedback?  I don't quite get that point.

You're saying I changed your lines when I quoted them?  Really?  No, ALex, I copy pasted them.  If there's a letter off or teh like, my apologies, but these are your lines.  Still think they're not awkward, or can't you admit to any of your many failings?  Simply unbeleivable.

My inexperience and lack of confidence shows how, you little pussy?

Quoted from Alex_212 I am better than that, and I really am not going to argue by trying to substantiate on your extensive list with someone who wastes my time.

You're better than what?  No need to argue, just respond to my feedback as I responded to yours.  You can't seem to fess up to literally anything, can you?  Very sad, Alex...

What you mention is my opening line that you specify is different so how can it be a cut and paste .

Very sad that you have the need to do this to support your case.

Hey Alex,

Look man, if anyone here knows Jeff, I know Jeff. I think it simply might be the tone you’re seeing rather than the information he’s giving. But I can say, he is right on with the advice he is giving.

Look at the advice given to you thus far-

Quoted from CoopBazinga Writing wise, this is okay - could be tightened up in areas, maybe a few grammar issues but I'm hardly the expert in this area. I would watch out for repetitiveness in the action as it's more recognizable over six pages but on the whole it read fast.  Steve

Quoted from Dreamscale Your writing is awkward and repetitive throughout. Read carefully and see how often you repeat your Slug in your first line beneath it.

Quoted from spesh2k Also, there's no need to keep mentioning that a character speaks w/ a Scottish accent.

Quoted from oJOHNNYoNUTSo "Every movement of the oars, takes the row boat closer to a dim lit house in the distance." This entire line reads awkward.  We already know the oars are in motion.

Alex,

These are all from people looking to help you with small repairable issues with your script.

Some awkward lines and repetitiveness.

All of them are keying on pretty much the same issues here. I honestly think you are simply taking what Jeff has to say personally because of his frankness.

But he’s right as are the others here.

Jeff and I go way back, Alex. I fought with him for weeks. But you know what I learned?

His heart is in the right place.

In fact, for a proofreader, there is no one here better. I will NEVER send out a script without him reading it first. Not because he’s a good friend (which he is) but because no one has a better eye than him.

No one here is looking to run anyone off but see the advice for what it is…

Advice and nothing more my friend

Believe me, at the end of the day, if several people are saying the same thing, (as it seems above) no matter the tone, believe it and make your decision based on that information.

Not on whether the person writing it is pissing you off with their tone.

Take care man

Shawn…..><

Oh, and I will say this...

oJOHNNYoNUTSo is really bad-a$$ super impressive with his skills as well.  :)

That's some serious advice with regards to the sentance structure you gave bro.

Well done!

Yeah, I'll second that.

Jeff took the time to go through a writing exercise with me to literally show me what I am doing wrong...and that was after he detonated at least 3 of my scripts.

Since then, I have been addicted to learning formulaic grammar, and I think in the long run it will pay off in ways that will take my writing far beyond the next level.

Yeah, he's a dick, but he's damn good at grammar.

You guys seem to have forgotten what Alex's initial affrontery was about.

He primarily remarked on how some people giving feedback come out with:

'awkward phrasing, & grammar, punctuation and spelling errors' (paraphrasing here) throughout but then they don't say what those errors are.

And then, this thread went a little haywire. This is not my 'fight' so I will say no more, other than - c'mon guys, (the two main guys, that is), surely things can pointed out with a little nicer tone.

Quoted from LC You guys seem to have forgotten what Alex's initial affrontery was about.

Affrontery...

Damn that's a good word.

You can always count on Libby. ;)

Shawn.....><

Quoted from Ledbetter Affrontery... Damn that's a good word. You can always count on Libby. ;) Shawn.....><

;D Least it served to lighten the tone. Thanks Led. :) Over n out.

Alex,

See you're getting some heat.  I was reading this and one of my favorite songs came to mind... "Many miles away there's a shadow on the door of a cottage on the shore of a dark Scottish lake." ...many miles away.  The Police (Sting).  Syncronicity II... powerful.  I'll get back to this one...

This was a short, simple tale.  Very creepy, so props.  Quick and easy read as well.  Nothing really tripped me up.  I would have wrote a few things differently, but here's the kicker, this is your script... not mine.

..and it was clear to me by page four, why the old man was there and who William was.  Sometimes its good to let the audience put 2 and 2 together.  But regardless, things fell into place nicely.  Your ending was good... it works.  So please don't get me wrong here.  For a piece like this...

...sometimes take a page from some great artists, who have purposely kept some of their art ambiguous - Sting, Picasso, Dada... there has been endless speculation as to what the Mona Lisa's smile is really about. The art then becomes a more powerful interaction with the audience.  If Sting were to tell us what he really meant in Synchronicity II it would lose its magic. Besides, he himself probably interprets it differently at different times.

So I might have gave some serious thought to leaving the ending ambiguous.  But that's just me. Having said that...

...I had no major gripes with anything here... so I don't nitpick.  Overall I enjoyed this... so nice job.

Good luck

Ghostie  

Quoted from ghost and_ghostie gal I was reading this and one of my favorite songs came to mind... "Many miles away there's a shadow on the door of a cottage on the shore of a dark Scottish lake." ...many miles away.  The Police (Sting).  Syncronicity II... powerful.  I'll get back to this one...

Ghostwriter is right,

Now that I look at this, I see some of the great artist Chris de Burgh from the 1982 hit song, don’t pay the Ferryman.

Don’t even fix a price. Don’t pay the Ferryman till he gets you to the other side…

God I love that song…

Quoted from ghost and_ghostie gal If Sting were to tell us what he really meant in Synchronicity II it would lose its magic. Besides, he himself probably interprets it differently at different times.

Hope I don’t kill the magic…but-

Synchronicity is-

The album was inspired by Arthur Koestler's The Roots of Coincidence, which mentions Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity. Sting was an avid reader of Koestler, and also named Ghost in the Machine after one of his works.

And

Synchronicity -2 ...

Refers to Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity, nominally tells the story of an emasculated husband and harried father whose home, work life, and environment are terrible and depressing. In an early stretch of lyrics we find "Grandmother screaming at the wall" (family trouble/mental illness), as well as "mother chants her litany of boredom and frustration, but we know all her suicides are fake" (nagging, unhappy spouse). Later, we hear about humiliation by his boss ("and every single meeting with his so-called superior/is an humiliating kick in the crotch"), all the while he "knows that something somewhere has to break". Meanwhile something monstrous is emerging from a "dark Scottish lake/loch", a reference to the Loch Ness Monster—a parallel to the father's own inner anguish.

Shawn…..><

Quoted from Ledbetter Synchronicity -2 ... Refers to Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity, nominally tells the story of an emasculated husband and harried father whose home, work life, and environment are terrible and depressing. In an early stretch of lyrics we find "Grandmother screaming at the wall" (family trouble/mental illness), as well as "mother chants her litany of boredom and frustration, but we know all her suicides are fake" (nagging, unhappy spouse). Later, we hear about humiliation by his boss ("and every single meeting with his so-called superior/is an humiliating kick in the crotch"), all the while he "knows that something somewhere has to break". Meanwhile something monstrous is emerging from a "dark Scottish lake/loch", a reference to the Loch Ness Monster�a parallel to the father's own inner anguish.

Inspired by the writings of C. G. Jung... duh, that's no big secret.  But how does it end. We're left wodering...

One interpretation, perfectly plausible is he's about to massacre everybody when he enters the house.
Another -- he is about to have a breakthrough and maybe just leave... or tell everybody to go "jump in a lake."  Either way, he's about to change.

Is the monster going to kill the folks in the cottage?

My overall point in my post stands... and it still hasn't lost its magic.

Sorry, Alex.

Ghostie

Quoted from ghost and_ghostie gal Alex, See you're getting some heat.  I was reading this and one of my favorite songs came to mind... "Many miles away there's a shadow on the door of a cottage on the shore of a dark Scottish lake." ...many miles away.  The Police (Sting).  Syncronicity II... powerful.  I'll get back to this one... This was a short, simple tale.  Very creepy, so props.  Quick and easy read as well.  Nothing really tripped me up.  I would have wrote a few things differently, but here's the kicker, this is your script... not mine. ..and it was clear to me by page four, why the old man was there and who William was.  Sometimes its good to let the audience put 2 and 2 together.  But regardless, things fell into place nicely.  Your ending was good... it works.  So please don't get me wrong here.  For a piece like this... ...sometimes take a page from some great artists, who have purposely kept some of their art ambiguous - Sting, Picasso, Dada... there has been endless speculation as to what the Mona Lisa's smile is really about. The art then becomes a more powerful interaction with the audience.  If Sting were to tell us what he really meant in Synchronicity II it would lose its magic. Besides, he himself probably interprets it differently at different times. So I might have gave some serious thought to leaving the ending ambiguous.  But that's just me. Having said that... ...I had no major gripes with anything here... so I don't nitpick.  Overall I enjoyed this... so nice job. Good luck Ghostie

Hey Ghostie,

Thanks for taking a read and really glad you enjoyed it.

I loved that song and it would be perfect for this if it was filmed as a short. I can picture Jack Flannigan rowing away with the stolen boy in the row boat and this tune playing.

It's sort-a stuck in my head now though I remember it being stuck in my head when it came out.

Really appreciate it.

Good to see others chiming in here.  NOt good to see Alex continuing to act like he is...reminds me of some other writers who only respond to positive feedbacka dn try to ignore all else.

Alex, your opening line was misquoted by me, and I apologize for that.  It has been changed.  It was not intentional.

If nothing else, I'd still appreciate you responding about the 2 different years being used and how that math works out with Jack Flannigan's age.

Quoted from Dreamscale Alex, your opening line was misquoted by me, and I apologize for that.  It has been changed.  It was not intentional.

Thanks Jeff.

You originally mentioned that you did a cut and paste and if so how did that change ?
I don't believe a cut and paste can alter the wording ?

Quoted from Dreamscale If nothing else, I'd still appreciate you responding about the 2 different years being used and how that math works out with Jack Flannigan's age.

32 years later Jack is 20 years older. Knew he should have been a female character as I believe they age that way. Hee Hee

I added the second SUPER at a later date and must have got my numbers mixed up. Thanks for letting me know.

Alex

Thanks for responding, Alex.

Again, I promise you I did not purposely misquote your script.  Something's wrong with my posting becausae my auto correct isn't on or doesn;t seem to be working.

In no way would I do soemthing so dumbass as to misquote something on purpose that ahyone and everyone would see was incorrect.  BUT, I do stand by all the quotes i posted about being awkward phrasing.  Whether or not you oraanyone else agrees, is a different matter.

On the year/age thing, i knoew it was a mistake and wanted to alert you, as I did and do for everything I see that's wrong or not correct.

No hard felings, bro, from me, at least.  I always try to help, but sometimes the way I come across turns peeps off.

Cool?  

Quoted from Dreamscale Thanks for responding, Alex. Again, I promise you I did not purposely misquote your script.  Something's wrong with my posting becausae my auto correct isn't on or doesn;t seem to be working. In no way would I do soemthing so dumbass as to misquote something on purpose that ahyone and everyone would see was incorrect.  BUT, I do stand by all the quotes i posted about being awkward phrasing.  Whether or not you oraanyone else agrees, is a different matter. On the year/age thing, i knoew it was a mistake and wanted to alert you, as I did and do for everything I see that's wrong or not correct. No hard felings, bro, from me, at least.  I always try to help, but sometimes the way I come across turns peeps off. Cool?

Hey Jeff,

Thanks Mate and definitely no hard feelings at this end.

I feel you have probably been told it before though, you need to really ease up a touch.

We are all here at SS for the same reason and life should be FUN !!!!!

Not everyone gets everything right all the time. Even the best of us F*** up sometimes.
When someone pisses me off, I think of a HAPPY place.       HAPPY... HAPPY... HAPPY... (Happy Gilmore)

Alex

lmao oh c'mon, Alex, it's funny when Jeff tears your script a new asshole. :P

You're not the only one, although I didn't really see anything wrong with his posts and actually agree with most of what he said, especially concerning the awkward writing part.

I, on the other hand, did not get any further than 4 pages.  A bit on the tedious side.  Just wasn't my cup of tea.

Alex, don't worry I wont comment on the writing here, I tend to focus on the actual story.

I enjoyed this.  That is all.

Not really.  I liked the creepiness of the setting and the tale of Jack.

I did think that William's reaction was a surprise.  When Jack turns up in his bedroom he seems a but startled (wide eyed) but is soon transfixed with Jack's story.  Was he hyponotised or something?  Just seems strange that he wasn't shitting himself?  

That's my only real gripe.  Overall I really liked this.

With all the fuss, I had to take a look.

Fine for what it is -- and nothing unbearably awkward for me -- but there is one thing about this tale that bugged me -- and that is the dialogue from the Old Man (which I would not hyphenate, personally).

Virtually every line you give this guy is, "The rumors say", "Twas said", "They say", "Legend says", "It is written", and on and on with stuff like that.

Once the Old Man has established the "legendary" nature of the story, just let him tell the story without some kind of caveat for every line of dialogue.  The impact of his tale will be improved.

My 2 cents.

Quoted from alffy I enjoyed this.  That is all. Not really.  I liked the creepiness of the setting and the tale of Jack. I did think that William's reaction was a surprise.  When Jack turns up in his bedroom he seems a but startled (wide eyed) but is soon transfixed with Jack's story.  Was he hyponotised or something?  Just seems strange that he wasn't shitting himself?   That's my only real gripe.  Overall I really liked this.

Hey Anthony,

Thanks for the read and post.

Initially I was trying to make it seem that the Oldman was the boys grandfather telling him the story and William went "Wide Eyed" because of the story and not because of the old man.

Sure if a ghost was sitting in a chair in your room you would really crap yourself, though some people do freeze up in these situations.

Thanks and glad you enjoyed it.

Alex

Quoted from bert With all the fuss, I had to take a look. Fine for what it is -- and nothing unbearably awkward for me -- but there is one thing about this tale that bugged me -- and that is the dialogue from the Old Man (which I would not hyphenate, personally). Virtually every line you give this guy is, "The rumors say", "Twas said", "They say", "Legend says", "It is written", and on and on with stuff like that. Once the Old Man has established the "legendary" nature of the story, just let him tell the story without some kind of caveat for every line of dialogue.  The impact of his tale will be improved. My 2 cents.

Thanks for taking a read Bert. I have taken out the hyphen and really don't know why I put it there in the first place, thanks for that.

I will review the Old Man's dialogue.

Thanks for doing a read.

Alex