Hey guys.  I'm pretty much finished (or at least taking a good break from) a feature of mine that I have been working on for some years now.  I have many ideas for spin-offs and prequels and related side stories for this world that I have created, but for right now I want to take a breather from the twisted, fucked up, depraved shit that I've been writing. (when you read the script, if it's ever posted, you'll see why. haha)

So I decided to take a dive into the realm of horror.  After throwing around many ideas, I've settled on one and so far have written about 5 pages -- and a very likeable protagonist -- that I am pretty happy with.  It's going to be low budget, very limited location, easy to film, and I'm excited to continue on with it.

As for the purpose of this thread, I just want to strike up a really good conversation between all the horror movie buffs around these parts.  Let's discuss what makes a good horror film, the elements that you need to keep your viewer/reader on the edge of their seats.  I suppose we can even bring forth examples from our favorite classics.  We can even talk about the duds and point out the things that don't work (so, in a way, this thread might be loaded with spoilers, so be aware).  Maybe you can talk about your experiences writing a horror feature/short and how that went for you.  Whatever the case may be...

Switching to the inspiration for my horror feature, I'm going to say a few things about John Carpenter's The Thing.  I love how everyone is stuck where they're at, there's no chance of rescue, the dread, and especially:  the element of mystery.  No one knows who The Thing could be, which keeps us paranoid, on edge, guessing every second.  That's what I'm trying to achieve with my feature, that same feeling of dread and mystery.


Carry on...


--Steve

Read some of Lovecraft's stories if the Thing is your model.

It's hard to talk about this so generally, I think. I think this topic needs to be more specific. Horror can be classified in either monster movies (Frankenstein, The Thing, Wolfman, etc.), psychopathic killers (Psycho), or some sort of psychological horror (Polanski's movies). This is at least what I've noticed, I'm sure there are others but I can't quite think of them right now. And they do blend, also, as I'm sure you are aware. So maybe you can refine your topic/question a bit more?

-J.S.

There's a few others actually that come to mind: The Cat and the Canary, Phantom of the Opera, and the Val Lewton films of the 40s. So there's usually a supernatural element, maybe that's a bit more general and inclusive.

I love horror films! Have written many too. What works best in scaring people is isolation. Everyone gets more scared when we are alone or isolated from the rest of the world.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I love horror films! Have written many too. What works best in scaring people is isolation. Everyone gets more scared when we are alone or isolated from the rest of the world.

That's probably true. Can't quite think of many horror films set in the city :)

I think you misunderstood what I meant with isolation. A person can be very alone/isolated in a city. ;D

I recently wrote a horror, although I can't show it here as it is for a potential producer, and we're seeking funds on it now. Anyway, I had to come up with something original.

Also what they told me was on my first draft... too much blood. Blood is expensive, apparently. If you want to write cheap horror, then go for the more paranormal type. Lifts and people being thrown around is easy and cheap to do.

I also had a limited location, like very limited... and it can be difficult, you have to get inventive. In many ways writing for a low budget is more difficult than a blockbuster (so long as we ignore the magnitude of plot in a blockbuster, of course).

I managed it, and everyone is very happy. I can't give away the original method I've used though... as it hasn't been done before as far as I know. So try and find your own... something that can hook in a producer, or anyone else really, if other people are interested then there will be a producer out there *somewhere* that will be too.

Female protag's work well in horror, and are just a seller in general at the moment.

http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/university-of-california-press/monster-pains-masochism-menstruation-and-identification-in-the-horror-bXzMYnC3jt

This is one of my favourite essays. I've been trying to find a way to share it for a while, but like a lot of academia, it's un-shareable because academics are assholes. This site lets you read it if you sign in with Facebook or set up an account.

If anyone is really interested after reading the first page but doesn't want to sign up in those ways, I would probably re-type the whole thing for you!

I think The Thing is as good a place to start as any. It has most, if not all the things that make horror great. You named some of them already but I think the key is atmosphere. All the best horror, at least in the traditional sense, has it. It's one of the most powerful tools you have at your disposal and is easily the most neglected and underestimated in (most) horror movies nowadays.

Another thing I think goes a long way in horror is memorable imagery. The Thing is packed with it. It need not be extreme either. In The Changling, it's as simple as a ball or a wheelchair. Or in The Shining, a hallway. Even simpler, in Hellraiser, the slatted patterns on the wall before the cenobites appear. Film is ever a visual medium and I think horror has the potential for some of the most interesting and resonant images.

Personally, I like horror that plays on the human condition in one form or another. Again, The Thing is a perfect example. In the beginning, all the characters know, trust, and depend on each other. They're out in the middle of nowhere with only so many supplies and facilities; it's imperative that they do. Along comes the Thing and these relationships start to falter. One could argue the characters become as dangerous to each other as the Thing is to them.

I could go on all day frankly. Let's see where this thread goes.

Quoted from James McClung In The Changling, it's as simple as a ball or a wheelchair.

Here here.  Some of the best (and under-acknowledged) horror scenes around.  Though both the Shining/Hallway scene and JC's' The Thing are both top notch and worthy, too.  And that's in a genre that - while it's got great potential - is rarely done well....

Quoted from Grandma Bear I think you misunderstood what I meant with isolation. A person can be very alone/isolated in a city. ;D

Yeah, you're right. I guess I was thinking about something else. But, yes, isolation does have a part in it, can have a part in it.

Quoted from James McClung You named some of them already but I think the key is atmosphere. All the best horror, at least in the traditional sense, has it. It's one of the most powerful tools you have at your disposal and is easily the most neglected and underestimated in (most) horror movies nowadays.

You know, I'll be honest, I don't know what you mean by this. I mean, doesn't every good movie have a good atmosphere?

Not to answer for James - but for me...

Yes, every good movie has atmosphere.  But how many horror films actually have it?  Beyond the cliche jump scares and obvious "something bad is about to happen" tension.  The ones that truly work the atmosphere are the few that stand out, IMO...

...and those that have something intelligent and fresh to say....

Anything can have atmosphere. But the atmosphere in horror movies has a much more distinct effect and purpose and really is a lot more significant and essential to the genre than it is to others, not to mention the word itself springs to mind a lot more in horror discussion than it would otherwise.

Quoted from wonkavite Not to answer for James - but for me... Yes, every good movie has atmosphere.  But how many horror films actually have it?  Beyond the cliche jump scares and obvious "something bad is about to happen" tension.  The ones that truly work the atmosphere are the few that stand out, IMO...

I think that's all rather ambiguous. That's why I'm having trouble understanding what is meant here by "atmosphere." Personally, I think it's not possible for the screenwriter to write such a thing into a screenplay. Or if they do, as it happens with some horror scripts on here, it's overwritten and I don't want to read that, frankly. I think it's the director's job to create the atmosphere of a film, whatever that atmosphere may be. There are no two films with the same atmosphere.

Quoted from James McClung But the atmosphere in horror movies has a much more distinct effect and purpose and really is a lot more significant and essential to the genre than it is to others, not to mention the word itself springs to mind a lot more in horror discussion than it would otherwise.

That doesn't really clarify for me what you mean by atmosphere though. There are specific things we can point to in horror films like the music or the silence or what have you. But I almost feel like the way you're using the word atmosphere, what you really mean is the feeling of horror. Or is it something else?

Quoted from J.S. Personally, I think it's not possible for the screenwriter to write such a thing into a screenplay. Or if they do, as it happens with some horror scripts on here, it's overwritten and I don't want to read that, frankly.

Not to be argumentative - because in alot of cases, you're right about the overwriting. And you're also correct that the director/cinematographer has quite a bit to do with creating atmosphere - or not - successfully.

That said - a writer CAN and SHOULD add atmosphere to their script, giving cues to the director as to what should be the flavor of a scene.  And that can easily be done without overwriting, if handled correctly. Just to take the Hellraiser example (which I'm riffing here.  No idea how the script itself actually read.):

Pinhead crosses the room.  Blades SCRAPE against wet walls. Beams of light stab the darkness like translucent knives.

Victim #156 SCREAMS.

IE: things like that can add a lot of needed personality to a script.  Assuming one doesn't go overboard.

Quoted from wonkavite Pinhead crosses the room.  Blades SCRAPE against wet walls. Beams of light stab the darkness like translucent knives. Victim #156 SCREAMS. IE: things like that can add a lot of needed personality to a script.  Assuming one doesn't go overboard.

I'm glad you gave an example. I see this as mood not atmosphere. And I see a distinction between the two also.

What would you define as atmosphere, J.S.?

Quoted from James McClung What would you define as atmosphere, J.S.?

It's an itch you can't quite scratch. I think it's something like the feeling the audience will project on the movie given the mood, tone, music, etc. You know it's there, you can't quite say what it is though.

I'd sort of agree except I don't think the audience projects atmosphere onto the film. I think atmosphere can be consciously created by a writer or filmmaker, even though it is something sort of in the ether.

I'd venture to say in this case that atmosphere is the amalgam of all the little elements (e.g. image, sound, tone, pacing, etc.) that create the feeling of horror, dread, unease, whatever you want to call it.

If not, there's the Google definition:

"The pervading tone or mood of a place, situation, or work of art."

Whatever though. Splitting hairs. My point is that horror movies need that extra something -- atmosphere, mood, tone, [insert noun here] -- to instill a consistent sense of horror in the audience. Cheap jump scares can startle people for 90 minutes but that's about it.

There's no doubt a jump scare is the most cliche trick in the book.

And the several elements involved in creating a sense of horror, whatever they are is like creating the atmosphere. Everyone feels the horror differently and likewise everyone feels the atmosphere differently. That's why I think it's a projection. In my opinion, the audience has to project all the feelings of a two dimensional image. That's my thoughts on that, anyway :)

JUmp scares are as easy as baking a sweet ass pie, you've baked over and over. Really? C'mon...

Horror..when it rocks and when it works is about characters that we root for and fear for.  Set it up, play it out and let nature take it's sweet ass course.

And...come up with some cool ass Antag(s).

I found myself jumping quite a bit while watching The Conjuring the other night. I don't generally think it's that easy to make me jump, but this did well.

SPOILERS RE THE CONJURING BELOW:

However, once past the 45th minute I could kinda see the way the story was headed. Seen one exorcism, seen 'em all really. And, I thought it was odd that James Wan used (well, his writers used) the same idea of:' there's no point in moving, the ghost has attached itself to you now, not the house - Insidious).

Having said that, I still think it was a cut above most, by way of scare factor.

I think the most difficult part is sustaining a level of horror that's not predictable, coming up with an original plot and writing characters that we've not seen before and want to get behind. If most of the characters are purely there so they can be killed off in some boringly gory way then I'm just... bored.

Gore is one thing, true horror is another thing entirely.

Alternatively ramp it up with some good action interspersed... which is why I'm really looking forward to seeing what Greg Mclean has done with 'Wolf Creek 2'.  ;D

Quoted from J.S. I think that's all rather ambiguous. That's why I'm having trouble understanding what is meant here by "atmosphere." Personally, I think it's not possible for the screenwriter to write such a thing into a screenplay. Or if they do, as it happens with some horror scripts on here, it's overwritten and I don't want to read that, frankly. I think it's the director's job to create the atmosphere of a film, whatever that atmosphere may be. There are no two films with the same atmosphere.

I agree with you that atmosphere is in every good film... however I also believe it is in every good script. Maybe, as a writer, you see this as a tool rather than allowing yourself to become absorbed in it, you look at stories (in script form) too analytically rather than allowing yourself the enjoyment of them. So, you'll sense atmosphere and instantly your writer's brain will pick up on it... this then removes you from the atmosphere and from then on you consider the script to be tricking you, almost trying to get one over on you. The atmosphere doesn't work.

I see this a lot with writers, even with myself.

However an ordinary reader, that just likes stories, will simply enjoy the tale and really enjoy the atmosphere. Our stories are meant for the general public, not nit-picky writers that don't know how to enjoy stories without analysing every little detail.

Quoted from LC I think the most difficult part is sustaining a level of horror that's not predictable

Is that really possible though? Horror, I think, is like comedy. You can't sustain comedy. You can have moments of it. Likewise with horror.

Quoted from DustinBowcott I agree with you that atmosphere is in every good film... however I also believe it is in every good script. Maybe, as a writer, you see this as a tool rather than allowing yourself to become absorbed in it, you look at stories (in script form) too analytically rather than allowing yourself the enjoyment of them. So, you'll sense atmosphere and instantly your writer's brain will pick up on it... this then removes you from the atmosphere and from then on ...

Reading a short story, one can find atmosphere in it because the writer is doing everything. Reading a script is a whole different matter. It should go without saying that whenever each of us read a script, we direct it in our head. It is a blueprint. Not the finished thing. So the way I read the atmosphere of a particular script doesn't mean another writer will read it the same way. Like I said, mood is a different thing. That is usually much easier to sense.

Quoted from James McClung I think The Thing is as good a place to start as any. It has most, if not all the things that make horror great. You named some of them already but I think the key is atmosphere. All the best horror, at least in the traditional sense, has it. It's one of the most powerful tools you have at your disposal and is easily the most neglected and underestimated in (most) horror movies nowadays. Another thing I think goes a long way in horror is memorable imagery. The Thing is packed with it. It need not be extreme either. In The Changling, it's as simple as a ball or a wheelchair. Or in The Shining, a hallway. Even simpler, in Hellraiser, the slatted patterns on the wall before the cenobites appear. Film is ever a visual medium and I think horror has the potential for some of the most interesting and resonant images. Personally, I like horror that plays on the human condition in one form or another. Again, The Thing is a perfect example. In the beginning, all the characters know, trust, and depend on each other. They're out in the middle of nowhere with only so many supplies and facilities; it's imperative that they do. Along comes the Thing and these relationships start to falter. One could argue the characters become as dangerous to each other as the Thing is to them. I could go on all day frankly. Let's see where this thread goes.

Great post, James.  Have you watched the commentary track with Carpenter and Russell?  I like when you can listen to one of those things and just have a smile on your face most of the time.  The commentary track for Jason Goes to Hell (the Unrated Cut) is one I would recommend as well.

Good to have you back around... how was LA?


--Steve

Quoted from Guest Great post, James.  Have you watched the commentary track with Carpenter and Russell?  I like when you can listen to one of those things and just have a smile on your face most of the time.  The commentary track for Jason Goes to Hell (the Unrated Cut) is one I would recommend as well.

I did. It was definitely a couple years back though as I bought the DVD in college. I'll have to check it out again. I love The Thing and Carpenter always brings a lot to the special features he's involved in. He's got some great stuff on the In the Mouth of Madness and Masters of Horror DVDs as well.

Haven't seen Jason Goes To Hell. Might have to check it out. I love DVD commentaries, at least when they're interesting and insightful. Sometimes the filmmakers don't know what to talk about.

Quoted from Guest Good to have you back around... how was LA?

Thanks, man. LA was cool, albeit somewhat overwhelming. First time for me over there, testing the waters, so to speak. I wasn't there for very long but I did get to see and do a lot so it was worth it. I love the city and definitely plan on going back at some point.

I'm a few months late but thought I'd throw in my two cents.

For me, it starts with likable characters.  This is why the Friday the 13th films, which while fun in a brain-dead kind of way, don't really work for me.  You can't be scared for a character you don't like or aren't emotionally invested in.  I've had this conversation with other writers who have trouble building suspense, and my answer is the same -- achieving horror and suspense is easy, IF we like the characters, because then it's simply a matter of putting them in the line of danger.  

Basically, in my mind, a good horror film is about horrible things happening to people you don't want horrible things to happen to.  

Quoted from Guest Let's discuss what makes a good horror film, the elements that you need to keep your viewer/reader on the edge of their seats.

As I look over the contemporary horror films I've watched in the last couple years I find that I'm less horrified by or even put on edge by most of these.

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2012/horror?s=date
http://www.movieweb.com/movies/2013/horror?s=date

Mostly I appreciate a good story, one that I can appreciate how much the writer or director has successfully crammed into 90 - 110mins.

Quoted Text I love how everyone is stuck where they're at, there's no chance of rescue, the dread, and especially:  the element of mystery.

Yeah, for myself I enjoy a good situation where we, the audience, can empathize with a protagonists impending dread and doom.
We know it.
The protag knows it.
And there's nothing either of us can do about it but endure.

I don't really like the stories where everyone just runs about willy-nilly as random things happen.

Quoted from RayW I don't really like the stories where everyone just runs about willy-nilly as random things happen.

Oh dear. I've just written one of them.

R

Quoted from rendevous Oh dear. I've just written one of them.

Hey, for four bucks, I'll produce anything.  ;)

just give me ample tits and ass... cartoonish violence, and an over-the top killer and i'm good to go with Horror.

that being said... Alien, The Thing are the kinds of Horror movies I love... when done correctly....

a horrible beast.... and a isolated group of people trying to survive... the best is when all of the characters have been developed so well... that you have no fucking clue who is going to survive...

that is what I like

Pen, in the last two years what horror films have been released matching that sensible criteria?

^ Some thoughts (quality may vary…):

Nurse 3D (so good, hahah)
Stitches
Hatchet III
Curse of Chucky
Silent Night
Piranha 3DD

And some looser fits to those criteria (that are good, at least, anyway):

Evil Dead
American Mary
Maniac
You're Next

Haha, I like how this thread finds a way to survive-- even though my project fell through the cracks.  ;D


--Steve

I hate horror movies because they just are not scary. Gore does not equal scary. Most films today are low grade snuff films pretending to pass off as horror it seems to me. Most are mindless predictable clichés of each other. My wife however loves them and will watch every B grade horror movie on Netflix if it has a creepy enough name. So I've seen more than I would like. My drives me nuts is that Hollywood keeps pumping out the same awful movies again and again. Sure they scary creepy commercials but then at the end you see its rated PG-13. Sorry. No good horror movie could ever be rated PG-13. Fail.

It seems like people want to watch horror films to be scared. What makes something scary? is something jumping out of the window scary? A person being torn to pieces? A attacker lurking in the shadows unseen? Does having lost "video footage" ramp up the reality and make films scary? Atmosphere? There are a lot of ways to approach horror. My complaint is that so many films these days are content to reach for the low hanging fruit to make a quick buck.

The scariest movie I remember seeing might seem corny now, but Event Horizon on the big screen was something else. I actually worked at a movie theater when these came out and every show you could count on a handful of people walking out hallway through requesting their money back. I had never seen any other movie at the theater turn people away as much as it did. Even our manager who built and screened the movies Thursday nights before opening day couldn't finish it. It had a dreadful atmosphere, it had gore, it had jump scares, it had that horror unseen. I still think it's a great movie.

That said, I got to thinking about what would make a truly scary horror movie since they are few and far between. And I think I came up with a good idea. So much so that I want to make it my next spec even though I despise the genre.  (There seems to be an insatiable market for these) I guess I just want to show my wife what a good horror movie actually is.

CD, I think most everyone over the age of 25 is experienced enough to not be actually horrified or scared by a film.
Sure, we may be disgusted or made to feel uncomfortable, but to leave the theater or to pop out the DVD and remain truly scared afterwards is a tall order.
Only kids and silly adults watch 'Evil Dead' or 'Carrie' remakes and get scared.
Pfft.

The best it gets is a good story well told and we can say that was a good story.

In which case there are a few good recent horror films, as Heretic above has identified.

You can forget scaring anybody any more, except for dopes.


Oh, and the reason HWood keeps pumping out more schlock is because A) there's always a new crop of young adults to pander to = $$$, and B) remakes to aggravate the mature audiences interested in seeing how an "old" classic gets f#cked up = $$$.

"Suuuu-kahhhhz!"

Quoted from CameronD I guess I just want to show my wife what a good horror movie actually is.

You will write what you think is a good horror movie. Everyone's idea of what a good horror movie is will vary from individual to individual.

The genre some of you look down on is treasured by a lot of people. Everyone doesn't want to see Oscar winning dramas or gag inducing rom-coms.

Good points Ray. But I still think its possible to make a movie that will still scare. I want to feel like that little kid again.

And if nothing else, it gives me a chance to put my index fingers where my mouth is by trying.

Yeah... that ain't happening.

Adults can scare kids.
Adults can be scared by the stupid things kids do.
But I don't think any adults are gonna get scared by a movie.

And the reason there are so many horror films is because there are so many new filmmakers looking to make a name (and a buck) for themselves with a marketable film..
Of the main genre's Adventure films are too expensive to make, Action films are also expensive because people get hurt and blowing up stuff is expensive, there's no market for drama or comedy, so a new lo/no budget filmmaker is left with horror films to strike the best balance between affordability and market interest.

See "Top-Grossing Genres 1995 to 2014" and note the "Average Gross" column:
http://www.the-numbers.com/market

As I stated above - there's always a new market of nubes = $$$.
(Psst! They don't know any better! They're just got allowed to watch rated R movies last year! ;))



Wow.
I just noticed the difference the per film averages are since OCT 2013.



That's quite an industry drop, across the board.
Hope it's seasonal.
Can't wait to see what the YoY changes are.

:( The film I'm writing currently is a western. Guess it's time to ditch it and start writing black comedies!

It'll lose LESS money, it appears.

Just be mindful of the production costs, and be funny as Hades.


Goodness! That's a lotta R rated films!
http://www.the-numbers.com/market/genre/Black-Comedy

And have everyone talk dirty, too.  8)


'You Kill Me' and '50/50' are great, BTW.

I think there many facets of what can be considered scary in horror movies. It doesn’t always have to be a jump scare or a gory scene with an arm being chewed off. Just the tone of a movie, an ominous feeling.  A well placed score or sound at a particular moment during a scene could easily heightened the level on tension. Even with holding sound to pique curiosity.

Of course people aren’t really frightened for their lives  when they watch a horror movie. But the idea of seeing a movie is to vicariously experience the emotion and story form the characters that we’re watching.  And as I am well aware that the movie I’m watching is fiction. I go into it wanting to be scared. If your wearing your skeptical glasses and your "Nothing scares me" t-shirt, then chances are your probably watching the wrong movie.

And that’s the appeal of horror. The audience deep down, probably innately needs a good scare. Could be a reason why people remember their nightmares more vividly then their dreams. It's the images that stay with us. That’s why a good horror movie can resonate for years.

--Reel-truth

Quoted from Grandma Bear Everyone doesn't want to see Oscar winning dramas or gag inducing rom-coms.

I don't like horror much either.. but between Oscar-winning drama, gag-inducing rom-coms and cheap horror... I'd go for the cheap horror.

Is it too much to ask for some good Oscar winning gag-inducing horror?

^ Silence of the Lambs! The Exorcist! Aaaaaand…nothing. Unless one includes the makeup awards (not that The Fly and American Werewolf in London and stuff aren't amazing, just that it doesn't seem to show much respect for the films as a whole when they win for makeup alone).

Yet another aspect of the unending suckitude of the Oscars.

Curious, what are some of your biggest fears? Horror movies that focus on blood and gore end up looking like slapstick to me. But I think a movie that built around fears is much more horrific. I want to try and scare those unscarable adults and I think a movie centered around some of our worst and very real fears could be terrifying.

For example I have a huge fear of death and dying. I don't believe in any afterlife and every day for whatever reason at random times I imagine myself dying. Old, in a hospital bed, surrounded by family, weak, frail, the end of my existence. And then nothing. I won't know my children anymore. My wife will be gone forever. The earth turns without me, history goes on and I won't be a part of it anymore. I see it coming. Each day that moment gets closer. I can't stop it nor can I stop thinking about it. I literally have to shake it out of my head when it happens. Sometimes at night I wake up and the first thought that pops into my head is my death. I've come close to crying at times because its so awful. Not so much the dying as the moment when it all becomes black and I am gone forever. I've had these thoughts since I was 8 years old.

A movie built around that would scare and mind f$%& the hell outta me.

Yeah, but having a fear isn't the same as watching some other character have it.

Maybe I'm just a poor candidate for scaring so my perspectives on the issue are invalid.

Quoted Text Curious, what are some of your biggest fears?

Being stuck at a Miley Cyrus concert.

Adverts

Anybody who uses the word 'basically' a lot.

So, basically Smiley Cyrus concert ads make you basically shirt in her shorts?

I'd rather be on fire and buried alive with a shark and a black fucking mamba.

You need to work these lines into your next OWC. ;)

Quoted from CameronD Curious, what are some of your biggest fears? Horror movies that focus on blood and gore end up looking like slapstick to me. But I think a movie that built around fears is much more horrific. I want to try and scare those unscarable adults and I think a movie centered around some of our worst and very real fears could be terrifying. For example I have a huge fear of death and dying. I don't believe in any afterlife and every day for whatever reason at random times I imagine myself dying. Old, in a hospital bed, surrounded by family, weak, frail, the end of my existence. And then nothing. I won't know my children anymore. My wife will be gone forever. The earth turns without me, history goes on and I won't be a part of it anymore. I see it coming. Each day that moment gets closer. I can't stop it nor can I stop thinking about it. I literally have to shake it out of my head when it happens. Sometimes at night I wake up and the first thought that pops into my head is my death. I've come close to crying at times because its so awful. Not so much the dying as the moment when it all becomes black and I am gone forever. I've had these thoughts since I was 8 years old. A movie built around that would scare and mind f$%& the hell outta me.

Hey Cam. I feel for you. I used to have severe panic attacks, shortness of breath, all those horrendous feelings of impending doom and that your about to die any moment. I still think now and again about death, particularly my own, but I think as you grow older, you tend to get a little more... carefree about the whole thing. You start to appreciate gallows humour more than you would than when you were young, perhaps.

You know your time is up, you know it's coming, it's the wait that kills you more than death itself. And the why, the how and the when is the most annoying part... and how long will this pain actually last?

Quick death is the best, I suppose, but no one knows anything about death so it's impossible to answer. I was interested in this because I was on a train earlier, one part of a fox's torso lay in one area, it's cleanly decapitated head lay in the other. Clean swipe. I guess he froze in the train lights and failed to duck. I hate seeing anything like that. But he died probably the quickest death possible. I consoled myself with that thought.

My biggest fears are those I love and care for being hurt. It sounds lame but it is true. Imagine your child, or wife, or whatever, being taken from you. Especially a child. You can't imagine the pain that must bring. A kid going missing for weeks, months, even years on end, must be soul destroying. It would kill me completely if any one I loved was taken - your mind would go wild. That is real horror, and if you are looking for real horror, I would tread in those types of psychological areas.
How it damages those that are looking for the person lost; how the captive is feeling; the kidnapper itself. I suppose you have your basic three there.

To add: The horror genre might get a lot of stick but it's an amazing genre that helps keep major companies in business. You can be as creative as a you want, you have freedom as a writer, you can do what you want in horror.

However, it annoys me that snobs look down and say "Oh, I might have to do a horror film." as if this is a last resort. Two words. Fuck. You.

Scoob, don't watch the movie 'Prisoners.' ;)

Ray.... why are you tempting me into finding out all about 'Prisoners'.

OK, just read the synopsis on IMDB.

I guess I'm talking in the wind, haha.

Still, that's just one film. Which has probably been done a million times before.

No reason not to do the same thing but change it up a little. And by changing it up a little, I mean putting your stamp on it.

Every 'major' movie is always the same in structure because it is a tried and trusted formula. You don't break the rules when so much money is at stake, artistic vision goes out the window. It has to fit these regulations. If you, as a writer, can't do it, we'll pass it on to someone who can. They will rape and take your vision and make it something you won't even recognize without as much as a credit.
If you handle your business, you might be OK.

Going back to the creative side, horror like all genres, has ups and downs. Saw 1 was really good. It was more psychological than gore. Not seen it a while but I remember it being more of a contained room with two guys trying to get out kinda film rather than a splatter fest. The sequels made it a gore fest. Much like Halloween and Friday The 13th. People were more interested in seeing how to disassemble a human body in violent ways than the plot.  'How are they going to kill people this time?' was the main draw of Saw. How is Jason going to reappear and kill off Crystal Lake campers this time round? How's he going to die? What's Michael Myers been up to lately?

The first are usually always the best. So make something interesting, scary, genuinely frightening or intimidating that noone has ever used before - and you will be on to a sure bet.

Best of luck :)

What would bugg me out… Is if you die, you don’t just fade black like some script. But instead, your last visual image or dream image gets frozen in time. No consciousness. Just that image or even a sound added in. Just lasting for eternity. I dunno, but to me that would suck.

That sort of stuff tripped me out when I was a kid. Not thinking about death, just that everlasting sound. Like back in VHS days. After the credits of the movies were done…that beeeep sound would blare out the T.V.  I never liked that. It always felt evil to me. I hate when the emergency warnings come on at night too. Now picture that for eternity…..that shit’s horrifying.

Quoted from Reel-truth What would bugg me out� Is if you die, you don�t just fade black like some script. But instead, your last visual image or dream image gets frozen in time. No consciousness. Just that image or even a sound added in. Just lasting for eternity. I dunno, but to me that would suck. That sort of stuff tripped me out when I was a kid. Not thinking about death, just that everlasting sound. Like back in VHS days. After the credits of the movies were done�that beeeep sound would blare out the T.V.  I never liked that. It always felt evil to me. I hate when the emergency warnings come on at night too. Now picture that for eternity�..that shit�s horrifying.

Now you mention it, I think my biggest fear is that you are still conscious after death. You can feel, see, hear but can't move. Autopsy. Stuck in paralysis forever. Buried. Going through a cremation chamber, unable to yell for help.
I suppose suffocation would get you in the end but what a horrible way to go.

Sounds like 'Wes Craven's Serpent And The Rainbow' haha. I love that film, would love to see it again in decent quality.

Creepshow had something to that effect.  I’m not sure if it was part 1 or two. But the guy was dead or in paralysis, and he couldn't move. I think they even buried him.

Leslie Nielsen's segment : Something to tide you over. Classic short haha!
Wasn't Ted Danson the unlucky guy? Great little movie, cared little for the actual "twist" end but the horror of the idea is what sticks in your mind. Great score too, really accompanies the story.

If you have not seen Rainbow and the Serpent, check it out. It's an underrated classic as far as I'm concerned. I'm amazed they haven't remade it.  Yet.

Quoted from CameronD Curious, what are some of your biggest fears? Horror movies that focus on blood and gore end up looking like slapstick to me. But I think a movie that built around fears is much more horrific. I want to try and scare those unscarable adults and I think a movie centered around some of our worst and very real fears could be terrifying. For example I have a huge fear of death and dying. I don't believe in any afterlife and every day for whatever reason at random times I imagine myself dying. Old, in a hospital bed, surrounded by family, weak, frail, the end of my existence. And then nothing. I won't know my children anymore. My wife will be gone forever. The earth turns without me, history goes on and I won't be a part of it anymore. I see it coming. Each day that moment gets closer. I can't stop it nor can I stop thinking about it. I literally have to shake it out of my head when it happens. Sometimes at night I wake up and the first thought that pops into my head is my death. I've come close to crying at times because its so awful. Not so much the dying as the moment when it all becomes black and I am gone forever. I've had these thoughts since I was 8 years old. A movie built around that would scare and mind f$%& the hell outta me.

What you have just described is the horror genre.

Horror is our innermost fears personified and made external.

What is a zombie, but exactly what you are saying? Their slow, shambolic gait walking slowly towards us, their rotting faces are a mirror saying "This is what you will become".

The best horror unsettles by examining people's deep seated fears.

For instance, one of the reasons the novel Dracula was so successful at the time was that it tapped into British fears of immigration, the fear of foreigners from unknown lands bringing disease. It also featured burgeoning female sexuality, something deeply frightening to the Victorian mentality who saw it as a threat to the stability of families and therefore the country.

The problem you may come across is that in attempting to tell a story about inner fears, you don't make a horror at all...but an existentialist drama.

The challenge is to create an external force that represents those inner fears. It's not so easy.

Especially on film where you are at the mercy of special effects. Lots of scary stories cannot survive the transition between brilliant writing on the page, and a guy in a crummy latex suit in reality.

That's all true and insightful. But there is also the fear of getting biitten on the neck then turning into the undead. And that garlic problem.

R

p.s. Welcome back, STF

"Horror is when you know and love the characters, but you also know something very bad is going to happen to them. It's not the monsters!" --Stephen King

I couldn't agree more.

As P79 quoted - it's not about the monsters.

It's always about the characters. And how much you have invested in them. I thought that watching the big blow in the desert towards the end of Breaking Bad. Again.

If these characters were more new to me it would meant little. But as it was the stakes were enormously high.

You know your guys are gonna lose. There is no way on earth they could possibly walk away from this intact. And yet you hope. For a miracle. And then you feel the tears and sadness building up when the inevitable happens. Yet you hope.

Wonderful film making. And Cranston deserves the plaudits. This should be on the BB thread. Didn't start out that way. But this came to mind -

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/oct/17/anthony-hopkins-bryan-cranston-breaking-bad-fan-letter