Feel you pain CJ...

If I count every option I've had, so some are on the same script, I think I'm pushing 25 options.

To date I've had 5 make it out of production, two (and a half) of which I think have been done well, and I think another 3 in post production..

The rest... People dropping off the face of the earth, film makers losing interest, not been able to get the budget so options lapsing, etc etc.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason either, it's not the free options (approx half) that are any better or worse, and I'd originally assumed it would be that they'd be more committed to it if they paid. In fact it could be the opposite, with my most recent, Disruption, been a free option that the Director turned round within 3 months and did a great job of.

Requests to write more shorts, yep also had that, now completely refuse... If they've not done the first one the odds aren't great for the second.

Shorts into features, yep a couple of these, but the only one I've actually done it on is Graft and I did that because I wanted to... I mean it's nice that these people have aspirations to make features, but I don't think that's enough to expand the time and effort to write a feature... Unless you are paid up front OR want to expand it for yourself anyway.

So I think we've been through very similar journeys of late, and I don't have any answers that won't have already occured to you.

The only thing I specifically do differently is that I start every conversation with 'and do you have a budget to buy/option the script'. My thinking is that there is value in the work, if it's going to be tied up for a period then I may have well got something for it... And so far that's range from $25 to $750 on shorts... Pays for a few more competition entries!

But I will say for me, that I will persevere and keep tryng to approach each opportunity as an individual case and not tar them with the brush of previous experience. I like writing the shorts and love seeing them produced... but I've just come to accept that it can be a tortuous road from writing to screen ;-(

Chin up mate ;-)  

Nice response, Anthony. Couldn't have said it any better myself. :) All good info to share with SS.

CJ, we're all in the same boat. It can be dispiriting and incredibly frustrating when you're excited to see something come to fruition and then it falls by the wayside. I don't think I'll ever get used to people flying off the radar, acting like they never contacted you in the first place... Or maybe I am getting used to it now. The main thing is that you continue to love what you do - write.

I am curious why you have turned down offers to extend 'shorts' into feature length scripts? I suppose that could have been for a number of reasons.

Regardless, keep on keeping on. :)

Personally turned down an offer to extend a feature as it came with no pay or guarantees...

If i'm going to expand time and effort on a feature that isn't already on my to do pad then I need a decent reason.

Just my thinking of course... And I have extended one short, Graft, but as I said, that was because I wanted to do it... Now trying to get some interest in that... Whilst someone else makes the short version ;-)

Not as many, but similar experiences. I think it is merely a function of (a) chronology, and (b) skin in the game.

Just is just intuition rather than specific knowledge, but I am guessing that the script always comes at the beginning of the game rather than the end, Someone gets a hold of a script and then shops for actors, locations and money based on that script. There are just too many potential failure points in going from A to B.

And then we are dealing with folks who don't have a lot of cash in the game. There are almost no financial costs for their failure so bailing out at the least of hiccups is not a problem.

I recently allowed the use of a short script (for free) and added two caveats. Basically, rights to use the script is rescinded if (1) I do not receive a weekly update via email on the the status of production AND/OR  (2) the entire project is not completed within six months. The first email is due in 3 days - I'll see how it goes.

I would never give away a feature nor would I convert a short to a feature without meaningful compensation.

Quoted from eldave1 Basically, rights to use the script is rescinded if (1) I do not receive a weekly update via email on the the status of production...

An interesting idea, but a weekly update seems onerous.  It is a slow process with lots of waiting.

People will agree to anything up front, but in practice, I cannot see anybody actually following through on a weekly update.  And then, if you actually try to enforce it, you become kind of a dick and "difficult" to deal with.  You always want to avoid that if you can.

If you are a writer, you just need to get used to the idea of an empty inbox and be thankful for any communications that you get at all.  It's the nature of the beast.

Not sure I'm of any help here since I'm not pursuing a career in screenwriting. It's just a hobby for me. One I love and it's nice to get paid, but I have another job, so...

Anyway, I've been in the same situation. Actually, I still am, however, I've been doing this long enough that I have a pretty good feel for my own work. I'm pretty productive and typically write 4 - 6 features/ year and the same amount of shorts. I usually write the shorts in between the features, hence the same amount. I have a lot of material. I'm not married to any of my scripts however. Sometimes I know I have a winner on my hands and other times just a so so script and occasionally, I even have complete turkeys.

When someone approach me about a script, I take my feel for the script and any feedback I've received into consideration. If I think it's a "hot" script, then I ask what their plans are for the film. If it's festival circuits or distribution and they have a decent budget, then they have to pay for it. If it's a short, I'll give them three months to prove that they are actually working on the film otherwise, it goes back to me. If it's a feature, they have to pay for the script and I'll give them six months or a year long option. Again, it depends how I feel about the script. If they want more than that or exclusivity, then they have to pay well or buy the script. When I have a good script that several people want it, the last thing I want is for it to be forgotten due to long options. It's hard to get a once hot script to get hot again.

With the scripts I feel are just so so and they haven't generated any interest, I'll give away. I won't even think twice about it. I don't keep track of what happens to them either. Every now and then I get an email from a filmmaker to a link to the film. That's always fun surprises. Regardless of the quality. It makes me happy that someone thought enough about the script to film it. Having made a few short films myself, I know that it takes a lot of effort and time, so I appreciate what they did. Regardless.

I guess, what I'm saying is that when you've been around long enough  and written enough material, you get a feel for each script and its worth and that makes making deals easier and each deal will be different.

PS: I forgot, I never write a feature for anyone for free. Never.

And Bert...I will start emailing you with updates every day!!!!!!!  ;D

Quoted from bert An interesting idea, but a weekly update seems onerous.  It is a slow process with lots of waiting. People will agree to anything up front, but in practice, I cannot see anybody actually following through on a weekly update.  And then, if you actually try to enforce it, you become kind of a dick and "difficult" to deal with.  You always want to avoid that if you can. If you are a writer, you just need to get used to the idea of an empty inbox and be thankful for any communications that you get at all.  It's the nature of the beast.

Guess  I'll see. Seems a small task to pay for getting something for free.

Just read the very interesting interview Anthony did with the talented Matias Caruso. Matias said that among the shorts films made of his scripts his favorite is Numbers "because of its great production value". The thing is (as some may remember) that the film was actually made without Matias' permission. Matias wasn't even credited as the writer, initially, and only found out about the film after it premiered at… Cannes. And yet, he chose to play down the filmmaker's terrible behavior. Why? Because the guy had done a terrific job.

Let's face it - unless a writer is actively involved in a production, he totally depends on other people's work and resources. So he is not in a position to make demands or put much pressure upon them.

Quoted from Grandma Bear And Bert...I will start emailing you with updates every day!!!!!!!  ;D

Daily?  I was not even aware of your new sig until just now!  How terrifying is that??

Quoted from eldave1 Guess  I'll see. Seems a small task to pay for getting something for free.

Honestly, more power to you if it pans out.  But you need your end-game, too.

I mean, are you really going to strip the script away from this guy if you don't get your weekly email?

Quoted from bert Daily?  I was not even aware of your new sig until just now!  How terrifying is that?? Honestly, more power to you if it pans out.  But you need your end-game, too. I mean, are you really going to strip the script away from this guy if you don't get your weekly email?

Yep

Update, at home and on my normal laptop which has my Excel log on it, so here's my scores on the doors...

Stats
Short scripts written = 42
Options/Sales = 33*
Lapsed Options/Sales = 21*
Actively in development still = 6
Filmed = 5

Reasons
Film maker fallen off the planet = 7
Film maker changed mind = 5
Option lapsed = 5
Started but not finished = 3

And it all starts again today with a conversation with a film maker wanting to Option Fairytale, price agreed, awaiting the agreement... let's hope it ends up in the Filmed category ;-)

Anthony

*Some of these are on same script.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood Update, at home and on my normal laptop which has my Excel log on it, so here's my scores on the doors... Stats Short scripts written = 42 Options/Sales = 33* Lapsed Options/Sales = 21* Actively in development still = 6 Filmed = 5 Reasons Film maker fallen off the planet = 7 Film maker changed mind = 5 Option lapsed = 5 Started but not finished = 3 And it all starts again today with a conversation with a film maker wanting to Option Fairytale, price agreed, awaiting the agreement... let's hope it ends up in the Filmed category ;-) Anthony *Some of these are on same script.

You have stats!! Impressive.

These I don't really give a &@%£

If someone wants to film it, so be it. But I do have rules;

if they don't pay they don't have sole rights - I could give the same permission the next day

and then there is the credits, and keeping me informed, etc etc

I suppose I just like seeing the work produced. Inner journey won a festival the other day, as a student entry, but that's cool.

It really depends, I've given out three shorts for free recently but to very respectable people. One is the Northern Film School, the other is to an ex, but very famous, soap star and the final one is to a company from the US with a good track record. They have a grand to spend on it. I could ask for a slice of that or allow it all to go into the production and make as good a product as possible. I prefer the latter.

We essentially get one shot per story as festivals usually only allow a film to be made once. If we give it to somebody and they mess it up, it can potentially ruin that story's chances of ever getting the production it deserves.

Bluddy ell. RD has written 42 scripts. The big git. I'm not even sure I've done half of that. Hmm, maybe. There are the ones nobody sees, when it's dark and lonely and a bit damp. No, I am toilet trained. Erm, sort of. Alright, most of the time, dammit. You should try making it go straight. Sometimes it doesn't and there's nothing you can do but panic and make it worse and hope we're not running out of toilet roll again. Oh dear, I would delete all that but my keyboard's delete key is still playing up. One day soon I'll fix it. I promise, mods. PM me if this has to be sooner rather than...

Bludy RD. He wins comps too. Last thing I won was in the eighties when I had that haircut and stupid Bowie / Japan grey suit on. Jeezus, the shirt with the frills too. Thank the Lorde there were no smartphones then.

CJ, I feel your pain. No joke. None. At all. I can empathise. And I do.

When you write something you think is better than usual, then you stick it up here, or there or wherever you think - Right. Someone is gonna like this and film it. Properly. With actors who have done some acting. Nobody's expecting some brilliant auteur who is a fan of Truffaut or JL Godard. But who knows, that stuff costs nothing.

All I hope and expect is when someone contacts going "Wow, love your script. Can I film it? Please?" I would then hope they do, and they do it reasonably soon and they try to make it as well as they can. That's all. A DVD copy in the post would be nice too. Hey R, can I stick my filmed version of your script on Youtube?

Erm, hang on. Lemme have a gander first. Oooh, not bad. The tall guy could do with a few more takes but yeah, nay bad. You go ahead and upload, geezer. Let's see what happens.

How many times has this actually happened to me? I'll tell ya. None. I write stories. So the above is something I do while I'm having a fag. No, not one of them. A cigarette. A real one. With tobacco and a filter. I wouldn't recommend it. But it's not quite as dangerous as unprotected se... Sorry. Back to the point -

Am I downhearted by this lack of results from the film making community of t'interweb? Oh, a little. But you know what? Feck it. Cameras are cheap these days. I know people. A lot of them. I'm gonna get my sweet cheeks in gear and get me shet together. I know how it should be done. I wrote the feckin' thing. I'm gonna stop talking about it (in a minute) and start acting. Accordingly. As best I can. Then we'll see what happens.

Probably not much. But at least after I'll be able to say I had a good go. I am trying. Everybody tells me so. Hang on....

Is this advice necessary? Maybe not. All advice given by me is done so in good faith. Take it, leave it, scorn it or love it. I do care. But I give advice without erm... forethought. I'm here to help and hopefully have the odd giggle too. You have been warned. Be good. I'm gonna try to be. Very. Wahey!

R x

EDIT - I just had to, as I don't see any typos and this is is force of habit. Maybe tired. Hmmm. Anyway, I read some of the previous posts a bit more thoroughly just now. If there is someone who seems to be doing alright and have the right attitude, then it's the Brummie who was rather erm, a bit sharp in the beginning of his SS career, but has since mellowed and got far sharper in the professional sense. I watch from the sidelines with a tinge of jealousy, D. We hate it when our friends become successful. Some ponce said that a while ago. Bugger's a millionaire who makes grown Manc men weep and follow in their thousands. Good on him. You too, D. Keep it up. Now, I'm off down the shops. Looking at lenses. Lots of 'em.

Wow CJ - that is quite the potpourri

Great list CJ

I've experienced variants of many of these, my 'fave' was the film maker who was super keen, until a car crash left him with two broken legs... I mean poor bloke, but, well ya know...

Maybe we should start a support club where we can vent a little  ;-)

On the flip side I optioned a new short and have some interest in one of my features, and so the rollercoaster continues!

Anthony

You guys are so far ahead of me.  I haven't done near any of this.

I guess I'm scared.  I wonder how many are like me...

Gotta get your feet wet in the pool sometime, right :)

I miss the days when I could write something myself and just shoot it.  I did that for my thesis project in Grad school.  It was so much fun...

But, since I barely leave the house anymore, well, that isn't possible...

Let me offer one piece of advice.  Don't let today go without doing everything that you could do to further your life in some way.  You aren't guaranteed a working tomorrow....

You really aren't...

Dan