Would seeing:

Writer interested in feedback on this work

vs

First time screenwriter interested in feedback on this work

Influence how you respond to a writer?

Worth doing.


I fear us usual suspects sometimes chase the newbies away with our expectations.

It might help but I tend to look out for new writers either because I don't know their name or through writing clues and react accordingly... cant do any harm though.

You can definitely tell if someone is new by writing style, but if someone clicks on the "new writer" tab you might be inclined to offer more constructive feedback other than "this needs work, read more scripts."

Yes. I would concentrate more on illustrating how to show and not tell, etc.

For a seasoned writer I would concentrate more on what I thought worked and what didn't.

Yes. Honestly, depending on how much I have on my plate, I might not open it. It's likely going to take a lot more time and effort to give feedback. Don't get me wrong I've gone above and beyond to give detailed feedback on new writer's work before... But I'd rather not know beforehand, and just crack it open if the log line appeals.

More importantly though what would be the purpose of writing that little disclaimer? I think it's not a great idea and could be prejudicial to  potential producers opening a script too. It's a form of rating.

A script might be technically lacking, and the writer starting out a little green, but if there's a great story idea there this type of 'label' might do that terrific story a disservice.

We should all start off from the same starting block, if you ask me. It will soon be obvious to those in the know at what level the script is after opening it.

Good points, Libby, but... If a new writer is honest enough to hit that new writer button, I would think that writer would be genuinely open to honest feedback and how to improve. You know what kind of new writer won't hit that button? The one who wants you to look past his improperly formatted script, his eight line action blocks and passive writing. Why? Because -- there's a great story here! But what about the story? Chances are if we can't get through the first couple pages to see what a great story this writer has, then how would a producer?

About the same way a "BABY ON BOARD" sign does absolutely nothing for the car's occupants.

James

Quoted Text more constructive feedback other than "this needs work, read more scripts."

If people haven't taken the time to read enough scripts to atleast figure out what one looks like, then this is the best they can expect from me.

Thousands of scripts here and easy to Google formatting.

Yes story, character arcs etc take time but atleast make it easier for people to read the script.

I like the idea.

When I first came on board here - I learned a ton (SLUGS/Active Writing/etc. etc.) - If it is a new writer I know I can just look at three pages or so and see if they're going in the right direction. So yeah - I vote for this.

Quoted from Warren If people haven't taken the time to read enough scripts to atleast figure out what one looks like, then this is the best they can expect from me. Thousands of scripts here and easy to Google formatting. Yes story, character arcs etc take time but atleast make it easier for people to read the script.

Correct.

If someone is too lazy to learn how to get the formatting right, then why should I explain him/her how to do it properly? Nobody told me either. That's the least I expect from someone who wants to write a screenplay.

As for the vote: I can tell if someone is new to screenwriting by now. Wouldn't make a difference to me...

It's not a matter of "too lazy to read scripts and learn". If someone is so new to screenplays, they might not understand the value of consistently reading. Other forms of creation are more insular - you can create a technically good short story even if you don't read a lot as long as you can grasp the English language. Same thing for some visual arts. Secondly, seeing the value of criticism might inspire them to go out and read/review.

Worth doing

Besides it may help some pluck up the confidence to join in

Quoted from AlsoBen It's not a matter of "too lazy to read scripts and learn".

Well, lazy might be the wrong word, but a lot of new writers definitely don't take it seriously enough. If they did, the script would at least be properly formatted.

It's not like all these articles on the internet suggest that something like this:

"INT-SUB-RITE-DAY (Sub-Rite is a generic Subway.)"

is a proper slugline.

Plus a lot of new writers obviously don't even know the difference between a spec and a shooting script. There are more than enough websites dealing with this... The new writers have to be willing to learn in order to make sure that the script complies with the industry standards (at least most of the script's content) BEFORE sharing their work. Otherwise they'll have to re-write the whole thing anyway, where's the sense in that?

Quoted from BenL Plus a lot of new writers obviously don't even know the difference between a spec and a shooting script. There are more than enough websites dealing with this... The new writers have to be willing to learn in order to make sure that the script complies with the industry standards (at least most of the script's content) BEFORE sharing their work. Otherwise they'll have to re-write the whole thing anyway, where's the sense in that?

I'm working on a New Writer's Pony of the top five things you need to do when writing a screenplay. I want to cover:

1. software
2. no camera angles
3. no 'We See"
4. no "-ing" verbs
5. spelling, punctuation and capitalization count.

I will later throw this up to the group to see if we've covered the top five mistakes a new writer makes.

Quoted from Don I'm working on a New Writer's Pony of the top five things you need to do when writing a screenplay. I want to cover: 1. software 2. no camera angles 3. no 'We See" 4. no "-ing" words 5. spelling, punctuation and capitalization count. I will later throw this up to the group to see if we've covered the top five mistakes a new writer makes.

No ‘-ing’ words… I seriously tried to wrap my head around that many moons ago and, found the best solution is no ‘–ing’ verbs…? if that makes sense. Otherwise it might be confusing to quite a few ‘noobs’.

I don't care really if a writer is new (everybody is at some point), but when I've read the first few pages, I usually know if I want to continue reading. And I prefer to stop reading over giving negative feedback nowadays, because experience shows most people don't accept negative feedback and take it as personal insult instead of an effort to help, so all I'd do is waste their time and mine,

Quoted from Don I'm working on a New Writer's Pony of the top five things you need to do when writing a screenplay. I want to cover: 1. software 2. no camera angles 3. no 'We See" 4. no "-ing" verbs 5. spelling, punctuation and capitalization count. I will later throw this up to the group to see if we've covered the top five mistakes a new writer makes.

That's a good idea. Just as a first toe in the water.

I wuld change number 1 to "Format and Software" (e.g., assuming that the theme is that scripts should be in proper format and here is a list of software that does that)

Items 2 and 3 snd 4 should have the word "limited" in front of them, IMO

I would have a separate item on scene headings.

I'm more inclined to read a first time screenwriter's script to help them on their way.  I expect it to be riddled with poor formatting, horrible grammar, and a myriad of spelling errors, but hey, I'm not the best speeler in the world.

I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, however, if this first time screenwriter wants to get all uppity and act like their shit don't stink, I get to practice my wit and sarcasm on them.  It's a win/win.

I was once a "first time screenwriter", many moons ago, in a galaxy...well...it was actually in this galaxy, but you get the gist.  I still remember those who commented on my first script and I'm grateful for their time.

Pay it forward.

Jordan

concur

Quoted from Equinox I don't care really if a writer is new (everybody is at some point), but when I've read the first few pages, I usually know if I want to continue reading. And I prefer to stop reading over giving negative feedback nowadays, because experience shows most people don't accept negative feedback and take it as personal insult instead of an effort to help, so all I'd do is waste their time and mine,

Equinox,
How about if instead you responded with something like, "Looks like the start of a great story. You should check out: "So You Want To Be A Screenwriter" which would have information on formatting, etc.

Quoted from Nomad I'm more inclined to read a first time screenwriter's script to help them on their way.  I expect it to be riddled with poor formatting, horrible grammar, and a myriad of spelling errors, but hey, I'm not the best speeler in the world. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, however, if this first time screenwriter wants to get all uppity and act like their shit don't stink, I get to practice my wit and sarcasm on them.  It's a win/win. I was once a "first time screenwriter", many moons ago, in a galaxy...well...it was actually in this galaxy, but you get the gist.  I still remember those who commented on my first script and I'm grateful for their time. Pay it forward. Jordan

Jordan, I agree.  And, you re going run into that person who will say, "formatting is not important, I want you to read the story." and they don't get it that it very difficult to get to the story if the formatting is way off...

- Don

Wow!

Thank you everyone for your input. I've updated the Submit Your Script page to include a check box for I am new to screenwriting that would change Writer interested in feedback on this work to New writer interested in feedback on this work.

I also added under the Optional Items:
This is a quality short script that I'd like to be considered for review and inclusion in Short Script Reviews.

I'd like to take the discussion to      Top Five New Writer Peeves (and How to Help Them), tho you are welcome to continue with this discussion.

Sincerely,

Don

Love the new additions to the script submission. It helps a lot when reviewing when it says New writer looking for feedback!  8)

Quoted from Grandma Bear Love the new additions to the script submission. It helps a lot when reviewing when it says New writer looking for feedback!  8)

I agree 100%

Why not just have a section that is specific to new writers? A place on the forum where they can ask questions and get responses from people who actually want to help...and not begrudgingly.

This forum can be a little alienating to new people which is why a lot of times people 'peace out' early.

That and the expectations they have are dashed almost immediately once they post something on here.

Just my opinion.

Quoted from Female Gaze Why not just have a section that is specific to new writers? A place on the forum where they can ask questions and get responses from people who actually want to help...and not begrudgingly. This forum can be a little alienating to new people which is why a lot of times people 'peace out' early. That and the expectations they have are dashed almost immediately once they post something on here. Just my opinion.

There is a separate thread section already entitled :Screenwriting Class.

I think it is geared for new writers.

So then why all the hubbub then????? lol

Idk. This is weird. On one hand I love this forum for what it does for writers. Gives us an open forum to discuss our work...but on the other hand it's not always constructive the way it needs to be.

It seems like everyone is in their own little clique and the 'short' section is the popular crowd. And everyone is always trying to tell everyone else who isn't in their clique how their clique should run. If that makes any sense.

It's like should someone who writes action movies exclusively really give advice to the person who writes sci-fi tv shows?

I guess what I'm saying is can we really take anyone's advice here without a grain of salt? Or is everyone on here expected to know and understand every kind of script writing there is?

You know what never mind.....

I think the effort here is merely to let newbie writers let reviewers know that they are indeed new to the craft to see if that would temper criticsm to the more constructive variety. e.g. I am not going to post a link on how to format a scene heading to an experienced writer while I would with a newbie.

Sorry that was a tangent.

Wouldn't critique a new writer any different than someone who say he/she is experienced.

I don't think it's good to be over critical to new writers.  Too much overload of negatives can stop someone from really getting started before they have a chance to tidy up what they've got.

On a side note to this.

If being critical points out the negatives, there should always be a plus side, a positive, something like the story or a particular good character.  Highlight what's good also.

When I was always here back in the day, sometimes it was like the news on television, the news never say anything nice, but we're people, and we're all trying out best.  Which is why I've had to have a hiatus away from the negative feedback (that came my way).

Quoted from jayrex I don't think it's good to be over critical to new writers.  Too much overload of negatives can stop someone from really getting started before they have a chance to tidy up what they've got. On a side note to this. If being critical points out the negatives, there should always be a plus side, a positive, something like the story or a particular good character.  Highlight what's good also. When I was always here back in the day, sometimes it was like the news on television, the news never say anything nice, but we're people, and we're all trying out best.  Which is why I've had to have a hiatus away from the negative feedback (that came my way).

I certainly agree with the spirit, but not the detail. If there is nothing really positive to say, I won't force something. I will try to be constructive even if all comments are negative.

Maybe there should be some kind of standard message that a new writer gets from simplyscripts when a script is submitted. Just some constructive tips. These are tips people generally give here, but might go unnoticed by someone new to the site.

A new writer should not expect any feedback until they've made relationships by giving their own feedback. That's the price you pay. It should seem obvious, but more often than not it seems that it's not.

One thing that discourages newbs from giving feedback is that they think they're not qualified. So maybe it could be part of their 'instruction kit' that they be encouraged to understand that what writers want most is just reaction to the story, what works and what doesn't. No training is required for that.

I will add for myself that I stopped posting scripts here because I didn't want anymore obligatory feature reads, and I did feel an obligation to reciprocate. It takes me at least a few hours to read a script and give useful notes. Some amateur scripts take longer. It took me days to get through Clone ****. So I stopped posting features. But for a new writer, being able to post and develop reciprocal relationships is crucial.

Quoted Text One thing that discourages newbs from giving feedback is that they think they're not qualified.

This is probably true - when I first joined I probably didn't comment for quite a bit being a raw hobbyist with no education in the art. Wanted to soak some stuff in first.

Quoted Text I will add for myself that I stopped posting scripts here because I didn't want anymore obligatory feature reads, and I did feel an obligation to reciprocate. It takes me at least a few hours to read a script and give useful notes. Some amateur scripts take longer. It took me days to get through Clone ****. So I stopped posting features. But for a new writer, being able to post and develop reciprocal relationships is crucial.

You could still post your feature and state Writer is not interested in feedback. I have had inquiries on my scripts as a direct result of them being on this site so it would seem a shame to not use that opportunity. The site always comes up high in the Google rankings (often first) when googling something akin to - where can I find scripts....

Funny thing about reviews is that I usually prefer the untrained script reader, as long as they don't hold back. In the same way I often prefer Amazon reviews by customers to pro reviews on books. Once people get corrupted by nitpicky preferences they start pre-judging work by standards that aren't meant for it.

As for posting, I really don't write many scripts now. I'm more focused on novels. Though I am actually writing one this month for Nicholls. The deadline is May 1. Got like 80 pages to go!

Quoted from leitskev Funny thing about reviews is that I usually prefer the untrained script reader, as long as they don't hold back. In the same way I often prefer Amazon reviews by customers to pro reviews on books. Once people get corrupted by nitpicky preferences they start pre-judging work by standards that aren't meant for it. As for posting, I really don't write many scripts now. I'm more focused on novels. Though I am actually writing one this month for Nicholls. The deadline is May 1. Got like 80 pages to go!

Personally, I don't mind the nitpicks. Different strokes.

Best of luck with that Nicholls.  

Maybe nitpicks isn't the best word for me to use. Prejudgments is better. People get locked into notions of what they think every story should do or not do. A cheap example would be save the cat beats. And I love that book, but I think the structure of a story should conform to its own logic.

Quoted from leitskev Maybe nitpicks isn't the best word for me to use. Prejudgments is better. People get locked into notions of what they think every story should do or not do. A cheap example would be save the cat beats. And I love that book, but I think the structure of a story should conform to its own logic.

Concur!

Quoted from leitskev Maybe nitpicks isn't the best word for me to use. Prejudgments is better. People get locked into notions of what they think every story should do or not do. A cheap example would be save the cat beats. And I love that book, but I think the structure of a story should conform to its own logic.

Agree - formulas suck.

Quoted from leitskev Funny thing about reviews is that I usually prefer the untrained script reader, as long as they don't hold back. In the same way I often prefer Amazon reviews by customers to pro reviews on books. Once people get corrupted by nitpicky preferences they start pre-judging work by standards that aren't meant for it. As for posting, I really don't write many scripts now. I'm more focused on novels. Though I am actually writing one this month for Nicholls. The deadline is May 1. Got like 80 pages to go!

A good point!