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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  Drama Scripts  /  La Loteria - Optioned
Posted by: Don, October 6th, 2016, 5:38pm
La Loteria by David Lambertson - Drama - A missing grand prize lottery ticket is the key to solving a series of murders in a gang infested Los Angeles neighborhood. 113 pages - pdf format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

Posted by: eldave1, October 6th, 2016, 6:20pm; Reply: 1
Don - can you fix the page count on this - it's 120 - and thanks for getting it up so quick
Posted by: Grandma Bear, October 6th, 2016, 6:22pm; Reply: 2
Changed. I read a few pages. Intriguing!

Might read more. I have two scripts to give feedback on, but if we lose power for a long time due to Matthew, reading is what I will be doing.  :)
Posted by: eldave1, October 6th, 2016, 9:12pm; Reply: 3
Thanks much and all the best with the power
Posted by: LC, October 7th, 2016, 12:21am; Reply: 4
Dave, I only have time for your opening at the moment cause I should be getting back to my own thing (first feature) but your logline piqued my initerest.

... Poor Esperanza. Esperanza, don't give him your... And she did. Oh, dear.
And we're off, good start, right into it.

I'd personally peg back some of your descriptive lines. Pale Blue Home has a header stuck out at me as being a bit unnecessary, I'd just put that in description under EXT. HOUSE.

Likewise:
The small living room, dining area and kitchen are
essentially one room merely separated by a difference in flooring. Worn carpet meets cheap linoleum. Btw, just noticed, should be: is essentially.

Great last line, btw.

I'd write something like: Poky and cramped, essentially one room. Living, dining, kitchen, separated only by the flooring. Worn carpet meets cheap linoleum.

And you know what, it's pretty much the same thing and if someone were to dissect all my descriptive passages in a feature length I'd probably have conniptions.

I'll just say the beginning reads like you just let it all spill out and some could be tightened. How's that?

Reading on I thought Gabriel's actions were impulsive and opportunistic. The burner phone leads me to believe something else altogether. Hmm.

The broken camera is a nice coincidence. I dunno, too much? It is a rundown part of the neighbourhood. On screen I'd probably buy it.

'Just under Jesus'
Great line, very funny.

Delete the repetition of it in description on the following line, detracts from the humour when reading the first, if you ask me.

Hmm, there's that PALE BLUE HOME again.

Ooh, nice touch with PABLO being in Iraq.

No - no, It’s (typo) full stop or lower case it's.

Gabriel places her hand on her (his hand on hers)

flairs about ? not used to that one.

Oh, really? I didn't expect that. Thought she'd stay, you know... and Pablo would come into it.

of Narcocorrido Hip Hop. (the repeat is not needed imh, said at top)
pulsate with the music? pulsate to the beat of the music?

Lovely suspense with the flash of the camera. Works really well.

carves the letter “V” - ooh, turns this into 'horror', instantly in my head. Crime/horror/thriller. Doesn't read as straight 'Drama' to me. That label underestimates it. Not that there's anything wrong with straight Drama, but you get me...

walks down the cracked
sidewalks within a large apartment complex.

walks down the cracked sidewalk of a large apartment complex? If anything I'd delete the plural and go singular 'sidewalk'.

kitchen area,
kitchen would suffice

Only a dim light from the kitchen, the rest of the apartment in darkness.
Sorry, can't help myself. Yours is perfectly acceptable.

A baby mobile is attached.
Don't you want to show that mobile gently gliding around? Yep, I know there'd have to be an open window or draft wouldn't there? Just seems like a lost visual opp, ask me.

Andrew starts to stir a bit.
Baby Andrew stirs.

She’s common in appearance
Really? 'common'? As in the literal meaning I suppose but I think 'plain, undorned' might work better, or similar. 'Common' gives me the impression of unsophisticated/common as muck, to the point of being lower class and uncouth - that could be my Brit roots but it stood out at me in not a good way after I read on about her character too.

Call some lowlife with a bad mullet and peroxide roots lurking in an alley 'common looking' for sure. Just ignore me.

Ooh, okay, I like that this is a bigger story than I first thought. Stopping with the Ramiraz's on p.17 & Huck Whitehurst (great character name!) - great start, Dave, very pro feel to the writing, despite my nitpicks.

Everything is easy on the eye, effortless to read, vivid characters.

Hopefully I'll come back to it sometime to see how the story pans out.
Posted by: SAC, October 7th, 2016, 8:53am; Reply: 5
Dave,

Read the first ten -- will get to more as time allows. But so far it seems like the making of a great story! You've done a brilliant job of setting this all up. Basically, I can see where this is all going from the first ten. However, I've also a feeling that I know nothing yet, and somewhere along the way the rug is gonna be pulled out from under my feet. Several times. Can't wait to read more!

Steve
Posted by: eldave1, October 7th, 2016, 4:49pm; Reply: 6
Libby - thanks for the read and the detailed comments - much appreciated.


Quoted Text
I'd personally peg back some of your descriptive lines. Pale Blue Home has a header stuck out at me as being a bit unnecessary, I'd just put that in description under EXT. HOUSE.


I agree on the trimming. I think I can cut it in half. The problem for me is I know this neighborhood (it's a real one) and when I know something I tend to but more in then needed. So, yeah - some snipping is needed.

In terms of the PALE BLUE HOME. I am keeping that. The home becomes a centerpiece for much of the story and I want it to stand out (i.e., as oppossed to HOUSE or HOME) - almost like it was a haunted one.


Quoted Text
I'd write something like: Poky and cramped, essentially one room. Living, dining, kitchen, separated only by the flooring. Worn carpet meets cheap linoleum.


I like this better and now have stolen it - thanks :)


Quoted Text
And you know what, it's pretty much the same thing and if someone were to dissect all my descriptive passages in a feature length I'd probably have conniptions.


Nitpick away - all improvements are improvements.


Quoted Text
I'll just say the beginning reads like you just let it all spill out and some could be tightened. How's that?


Yes - concur.


Quoted Text
Reading on I thought Gabriel's actions were impulsive and opportunistic. The burner phone leads me to believe something else altogether. Hmm.


Yep - it becomes clear why he has one later


Quoted Text
The broken camera is a nice coincidence. I dunno, too much? It is a rundown part of the neighbourhood. On screen I'd probably buy it.


I thought about this coincidence too. For story purposes (becomes clearer later) he has to have no camera or a broken one. Original draft had no security camera and then I talked myself the other way because most stores in that neighborhood have them. Anyway - will mull it over.


Quoted Text
'Just under Jesus'
Great line, very funny.


Thanks


Quoted Text
Delete the repetition of it in description on the following line, detracts from the humour when reading the first, if you ask me.


agree with this deletion


Quoted Text
Hmm, there's that PALE BLUE HOME again.


Yes - you will get a lot of it :)


Quoted Text
Ooh, nice touch with PABLO being in Iraq.


Thanks


Quoted Text
No - no, It’s (typo) full stop or lower case it's.


Good catch - thanks


Quoted Text
Gabriel places her hand on her (his hand on hers)


Got it - thanks


Quoted Text
flairs about ? not used to that one.


Suppose to be flails - thanks

Oh, really? I didn't expect that. Thought she'd stay, you know... and Pablo would come into it.


Quoted Text
of Narcocorrido Hip Hop. (the repeat is not needed imh, said at top)
pulsate with the music? pulsate to the beat of the music?


Not sure I agree here. It is a very specific and not widely known genre specific to East LA Gangs (they write it). I am toying with getting rid of it altogher - haven't decided yet.


Quoted Text
Lovely suspense with the flash of the camera. Works really well.


thanks


Quoted Text
carves the letter “V” - ooh, turns this into 'horror', instantly in my head. Crime/horror/thriller. Doesn't read as straight 'Drama' to me. That label underestimates it. Not that there's anything wrong with straight Drama, but you get me...


I would probably label it as crime drama


Quoted Text
walks down the cracked sidewalk of a large apartment complex? If anything I'd delete the plural and go singular 'sidewalk'.


Singular works - thanks.


Quoted Text
kitchen area,
kitchen would suffice


Disagree here - in these apartments there are not distinct kitchen/dining and living rooms - they pour into each other - I think area better describes that.


Quoted Text
A baby mobile is attached.
Don't you want to show that mobile gently gliding around? Yep, I know there'd have to be an open window or draft wouldn't there? Just seems like a lost visual opp, ask me.


Yeah, that would a nice visual. Maybe something akin to:

Angel figurines dangling from a baby mobile dance lightly in the circulated air above the crib


Quoted Text
Andrew starts to stir a bit.
Baby Andrew stirs.


That works


Quoted Text
She’s common in appearance
Really? 'common'? As in the literal meaning I suppose but I think 'plain, undorned' might work better, or similar. 'Common' gives me the impression of unsophisticated/common as muck, to the point of being lower class and uncouth - that could be my Brit roots but it stood out at me in not a good way after I read on about her character too.

Call some lowlife with a bad mullet and peroxide roots lurking in an alley 'common looking' for sure. Just ignore me.


Might be a Brit vs U.S thing. Merely implies nothing outstanding in clothes or physical traits,


Quoted Text
Ooh, okay, I like that this is a bigger story than I first thought. Stopping with the Ramiraz's on p.17 & Huck Whitehurst (great character name!) - great start, Dave, very pro feel to the writing, despite my nitpicks.

Everything is easy on the eye, effortless to read, vivid characters.

Hopefully I'll come back to it sometime to see how the story pans out.


Thanks much, Libby. I appreciate the read and the nitpicks as well. All our helpful.  
Posted by: eldave1, October 7th, 2016, 4:51pm; Reply: 7

Quoted from SAC
Dave,

Read the first ten -- will get to more as time allows. But so far it seems like the making of a great story! You've done a brilliant job of setting this all up. Basically, I can see where this is all going from the first ten. However, I've also a feeling that I know nothing yet, and somewhere along the way the rug is gonna be pulled out from under my feet. Several times. Can't wait to read more!

Steve


Wow - thanks for the kind words Steve. Much appreciated.
Posted by: BSaunders, October 7th, 2016, 6:37pm; Reply: 8
Hey Dave. I'm a big fan of your writing, so I'm going to read this tonight (Aus time) and get back to you with my thoughts in the next coupla of days.

Posted by: eldave1, October 7th, 2016, 6:59pm; Reply: 9

Quoted from BSaunders
Hey Dave. I'm a big fan of your writing, so I'm going to read this tonight (Aus time) and get back to you with my thoughts in the next coupla of days.



Super - much thanks
Posted by: SAC, October 8th, 2016, 7:20pm; Reply: 10
SOME SPOILERS

Geez, Dave. This was a super slick read. I read that first ten yesterday, then the rest today in one sitting in probably a bit over an hour. Everything I mentioned in my first post happened. It didn't disappoint. A very clean read with the odd typo here and there -- stuff like a missing period, and perhaps a repeat of a line. I'm so sorry I didn't take the time to point these out. I was pressed for time as it was, and of course, I didn't want to interrupt the read. Just the fact that I didn't want to stop reading kinda says a lot about this script, IMO. It was good.

I don't think there was one loose end left untied. You pretty
Much cleared everything up for me. And just when I was like -- wait, is that it? (Gabriel's death), you pulled a doozy out and finished it up very nicely.

I particularly loved the "aha" moment you threw in later in regards to why Huck initially pocketed those numbers they found in Gabriel's car. You made it believable and logical as to why he did that. Hell, even Anna agreed!

I think your characters were pretty well rounded. However, they all seemed rather subdued at times and I wonder if your writing should reflect that in places. Not the dialogue -- like, I knew when Anna was pissed, for example, but I can honestly say I don't recall one action being capped. Like someone slamming their fist down, for example, or a gunshot. Not complaining, mind you. This was expertly written and told with precision. But still, there were places where I felt the writing should've "popped" and didn't. If anything, the writing was a little too consistent, if you will. But don't mind me, of course. I could be way off.

Regardless, a very well told story and a great read. I enjoyed it very much, and could easily see this being picked up and turned into a pretty damn good movie. Congrats!

Steve
Posted by: BSaunders, October 9th, 2016, 3:13am; Reply: 11
Hey Dave, just had a read.

I loved it. Read it all in one sitting. Here're a few thoughts followed by some notes.

Some would say your descriptions are too long, but I’d say they’re just right. You get the little stuff that really paints a clear picture in the head without blabbering on too much.

Great ending! I love what you did with the whole Pablo angle. Even though Double V is a gangster and an atrocious human being, you still did a good job at making him not so dislikeable. You made me kind of feel sorry for him. And that’s what I like most about this. The way you persuade us to feel like the gangsters aren’t so bad, is a really cool thing.

The concept of the lottery ticket is original. I’m not really into these detective type of movies, but this one was something I think I would enjoy watching. It had me invested, and I wanted to know who was going to end up with the coin.

Your characters are great too. Anna, the detective, with her sick dad is a beautiful touch that makes her stand out from others. Huck, the asshole detective. I must say, I never saw that coming! And I’m usually quite good at predicting endings. The coke head Gabriel: Brilliant angle with him and his little family. Even the deal with him and his father-in-law. And of-course the gangsters. (Including Pablo.) Yes, they are cliché characters, but it’s what you did with them that made me stand out for me. Usually, in movies, you see Mexican gangsters swear off their heads, spit, threaten and abuse cops, but not these guys. You kept them level headed, and I liked how you went about with that.

“A far too giddy MALE REPORTER (30) with a face you just want to punch” is one of the best descriptions I’ve ever read. Made me laugh. Bravo.

A couple of notes:

1) Little Stevie shouldn’t be such a wimp. This guy is a hard gangster that has killed before and has probably been in a few shoot outs, yet he trembles at the sight of a gun by a detective. Doesn’t sit with me.
Suggestion:
Have Little Stevie as an aggressor. Have him still take orders from Double V, but not without challenging his authority. It would make it more believable for when he doesn’t help him out in the whole murder case. I also think it would add more tension to scenes with him and Double V and also with the Detectives. When Anna and Huck questioned them, I would have liked to fear for the safety of Anna. I kind of knew Double V wouldn’t do anything, but it would have been a nice touch to have Little Stevie there as an unpredictable nut case. It would have had me on the edge of my seat not knowing if he was going to pounce.

2) Page 65: I think you should get rid of Captain Ganza explaining Pablo’s injuries in a V.O. It didn’t flow for me.
Suggestion:
Instead of having Ganza talk as the V.O; Have a Nurse or Doctor explain his injuries to an Army General or something, then cut back to Anna hanging up the phone with a tear in her eye.

Also, you have Pablo Sanchez written a few times when I think you meant Gabriel Sanchez.

That’s about it, Dave. Good job.
Posted by: eldave1, October 9th, 2016, 10:51am; Reply: 12

Quoted from SAC
SOME SPOILERS

Geez, Dave. This was a super slick read. I read that first ten yesterday, then the rest today in one sitting in probably a bit over an hour. Everything I mentioned in my first post happened. It didn't disappoint. A very clean read with the odd typo here and there -- stuff like a missing period, and perhaps a repeat of a line. I'm so sorry I didn't take the time to point these out. I was pressed for time as it was, and of course, I didn't want to interrupt the read. Just the fact that I didn't want to stop reading kinda says a lot about this script, IMO. It was good.

I don't think there was one loose end left untied. You pretty
Much cleared everything up for me. And just when I was like -- wait, is that it? (Gabriel's death), you pulled a doozy out and finished it up very nicely.

I particularly loved the "aha" moment you threw in later in regards to why Huck initially pocketed those numbers they found in Gabriel's car. You made it believable and logical as to why he did that. Hell, even Anna agreed!

I think your characters were pretty well rounded. However, they all seemed rather subdued at times and I wonder if your writing should reflect that in places. Not the dialogue -- like, I knew when Anna was pissed, for example, but I can honestly say I don't recall one action being capped. Like someone slamming their fist down, for example, or a gunshot. Not complaining, mind you. This was expertly written and told with precision. But still, there were places where I felt the writing should've "popped" and didn't. If anything, the writing was a little too consistent, if you will. But don't mind me, of course. I could be way off.

Regardless, a very well told story and a great read. I enjoyed it very much, and could easily see this being picked up and turned into a pretty damn good movie. Congrats!

Steve


Thanks so much for the review and kind words Steve. Much appreciated. I know it is quite the effort to get through a feature. I do like your thoughts on opportunities to add some POP - it is stuff like that can get a script to the next level and is great fodder for review/re-write - in the next draft I will look for those opportunities - Again - much appreciated.
Posted by: eldave1, October 9th, 2016, 11:12am; Reply: 13

Quoted from BSaunders
Hey Dave, just had a read.
I loved it. Read it all in one sitting. Here're a few thoughts followed by some notes.

Some would say your descriptions are too long, but I’d say they’re just right. You get the little stuff that really paints a clear picture in the head without blabbering on too much.

Great ending! I love what you did with the whole Pablo angle. Even though Double V is a gangster and an atrocious human being, you still did a good job at making him not so dislikeable. You made me kind of feel sorry for him. And that’s what I like most about this. The way you persuade us to feel like the gangsters aren’t so bad, is a really cool thing.

The concept of the lottery ticket is original. I’m not really into these detective type of movies, but this one was something I think I would enjoy watching. It had me invested, and I wanted to know who was going to end up with the coin.

Your characters are great too. Anna, the detective, with her sick dad is a beautiful touch that makes her stand out from others. Huck, the asshole detective. I must say, I never saw that coming! And I’m usually quite good at predicting endings. The coke head Gabriel: Brilliant angle with him and his little family. Even the deal with him and his father-in-law. And of-course the gangsters. (Including Pablo.) Yes, they are cliché characters, but it’s what you did with them that made me stand out for me. Usually, in movies, you see Mexican gangsters swear off their heads, spit, threaten and abuse cops, but not these guys. You kept them level headed, and I liked how you went about with that.

“A far too giddy MALE REPORTER (30) with a face you just want to punch” is one of the best descriptions I’ve ever read. Made me laugh. Bravo.


Thanks for the read, buddy  really appreciate you getting through this and adding your comments.  As I told, Steve - I know getting through a feature is a lot of effort and greatly appreciate that you both took the time.


Quoted Text
1) Little Stevie shouldn’t be such a wimp. This guy is a hard gangster that has killed before and has probably been in a few shoot outs, yet he trembles at the sight of a gun by a detective. Doesn’t sit with me. Suggestion:
Have Little Stevie as an aggressor. Have him still take orders from Double V, but not without challenging his authority. It would make it more believable for when he doesn’t help him out in the whole murder case. I also think it would add more tension to scenes with him and Double V and also with the Detectives. When Anna and Huck questioned them, I would have liked to fear for the safety of Anna. I kind of knew Double V wouldn’t do anything, but it would have been a nice touch to have Little Stevie there as an unpredictable nut case. It would have had me on the edge of my seat not knowing if he was going to pounce.


Excellent note!!!! It's dead on and I will definitely use it.


Quoted Text
2) Page 65: I think you should get rid of Captain Ganza explaining Pablo’s injuries in a V.O. It didn’t flow for me.
Suggestion:
Instead of having Ganza talk as the V.O; Have a Nurse or Doctor explain his injuries to an Army General or something, then cut back to Anna hanging up the phone with a tear in her eye.


I just re-read this section - yep - it does create a hiccup - I'll either go with your suggestion or as an alternative - after just showing Pablo in the hospital - go back to Anna at her house relaying the info to he Dad on what happened to Pablo - will take a couple of stabs at this and see what works - but concur that the VO is a hiccup.


Quoted Text
Also, you have Pablo Sanchez written a few times when I think you meant Gabriel Sanchez.


Thanks - just fixed it (why can't spell checkers also read my mind?)

Again - thanks for the read, the notes and the kind words.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, October 9th, 2016, 12:22pm; Reply: 14
I have only read up to page 11 so far. I like the story and where it's heading. If the rest of the script is written in the same way as these first 11, I think you could probably trim ten pages off this script by just by cutting some of your descriptions. They are unnecessary long, IMHO. They are also very specific. like the PALE BLUE HOUSE. Is it necessary to the story that it's that color? If not, I'd skip that. Some of the descriptions are also repetitive. You tell us in the EXT paragraph of the liquor store how run down it is and such and then you do it again with the INT description. That is repetitive, at least to me since we got a good idea of the store from the earlier description. Also, try to use active verbs. Instead of "slowly walks", why not describe her walk with one word? She shuffles, she hobbles, she staggers...

There were a couple of things about the story I was wondering about. Gabriel goes to buy a lottery ticket in the same store that Esperanza did. But, she already has the winning numbers. His ticket must therefore be from the next week's drawing, right? I don't play the lottery, but I'm pretty sure that those machines have a date and time when each ticket was sold. In other words, his ticket purchase wouldn't match the winning ticket. Which makes the convenience store surveillance seem extremely lucky  coincidence for Gabriel. I'll go along with it. It's a movie after all. Another thing that stood out for me is that Gabriel works for the state lottery. I'm pretty sure employees at the lottery can't win, but perhaps he finds someone else to cash it in for him.

Just some thoughts that popped up while I read. Good start regardless.
Posted by: MarkItZero, October 9th, 2016, 1:05pm; Reply: 15
Dave -- Just saw this was up. Real life is getting in the way and I still need to find time for the OWC followed by the growing list of features I already promised notes on... but at some point soon I'll get to this. Looking forward to reading it.
Posted by: eldave1, October 9th, 2016, 1:51pm; Reply: 16
Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.


Quoted from Grandma Bear
I have only read up to page 11 so far. I like the story and where it's heading. If the rest of the script is written in the same way as these first 11, I think you could probably trim ten pages off this script by just by cutting some of your descriptions. They are unnecessary long, IMHO.
Quoted Text


I agree it needs some trimming up front - I think I can get where I want to be quicker.  

[quote]They are also very specific. like the PALE BLUE HOUSE. Is it necessary to the story that it's that color? If not, I'd skip that.


Disagree here - I am a fan of slugs being is specific as allowed by one line. IMHO - house is boring and indistinguishable.  If you can make it unique/specific - I think you always ought to go for it.

[quote]Some of the descriptions are also repetitive. You tell us in the EXT paragraph of the liquor store how run down it is and such and then you do it again with the INT description. That is repetitive, at least to me since we got a good idea of the store from the earlier description.


I agree in terms of this specific one since the inside description is redundant. I think if there were something to add. e.g.,:  Crammed with more products than it was designed to hold - or something like that, an inside description is warranted. Good catch.


Quoted Text
Also, try to use active verbs. Instead of "slowly walks", why not describe her walk with one word? She shuffles, she hobbles, she staggers...


Like this.


Quoted Text
There were a couple of things about the story I was wondering about. Gabriel goes to buy a lottery ticket in the same store that Esperanza did. But, she already has the winning numbers. His ticket must therefore be from the next week's drawing, right? I don't play the lottery, but I'm pretty sure that those machines have a date and time when each ticket was sold. In other words, his ticket purchase wouldn't match the winning ticket. Which makes the convenience store surveillance seem extremely lucky  coincidence for Gabriel. I'll go along with it. It's a movie after all. Another thing that stood out for me is that Gabriel works for the state lottery. I'm pretty sure employees at the lottery can't win, but perhaps he finds someone else to cash it in for him.


Gabriel is only going to the store to discover if there was a video of Esperanza buying the ticket. His purchase of a ticket is merely a ruse to get the information about the camera. He's not trying to buy a winning ticket. He already knows that Esperanza holds it.

Lottery employees cannot win. Gabriel will not personally cash the ticket (and he knows this).

Thanks much for the read and the comments - useful.
Posted by: eldave1, October 9th, 2016, 1:52pm; Reply: 17

Quoted from MarkItZero
Dave -- Just saw this was up. Real life is getting in the way and I still need to find time for the OWC followed by the growing list of features I already promised notes on... but at some point soon I'll get to this. Looking forward to reading it.


No problem, James - just pleased that it is in your hopper. Good luck with the OWC. I have to sit this one out but look forward to the scripts.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, October 9th, 2016, 2:37pm; Reply: 18
Ok, I thought he was buying a ticket to swap with Esperanza's.

About the PALE BLUE HOUSE. I hear you, but I was curious if it was important to the story since you had it capitalized. If it's not important to the story, I would at least put it in lower case. Upper case is more for making sure that this item or sound is IMPORTANT, kind of thing. That was all.  :)
Posted by: eldave1, October 9th, 2016, 3:27pm; Reply: 19

Quoted from Grandma Bear
Ok, I thought he was buying a ticket to swap with Esperanza's.

About the PALE BLUE HOUSE. I hear you, but I was curious if it was important to the story since you had it capitalized. If it's not important to the story, I would at least put it in lower case. Upper case is more for making sure that this item or sound is IMPORTANT, kind of thing. That was all.  :)


Thought you were referring to just the slug. I now see where it is CAPPED in the action area. Should not be - thanks
Posted by: AlsoBen, October 10th, 2016, 1:36am; Reply: 20
Hey Dave, I've read a few pages and, with the logline, I definitely plan to finish this soon-ish. Looks really good.

Just to chime in re: the sluglines, I didn't find them distracting or too long or w/e. Wouldn't have even commented on them.
Posted by: eldave1, October 10th, 2016, 2:08pm; Reply: 21

Quoted from AlsoBen
Hey Dave, I've read a few pages and, with the logline, I definitely plan to finish this soon-ish. Looks really good.

Just to chime in re: the sluglines, I didn't find them distracting or too long or w/e. Wouldn't have even commented on them.


Thanks, bud - loof forward to it
Posted by: stevemiles, October 17th, 2016, 1:55pm; Reply: 22
Dave,

Thought I’d check out the first ten or so and this pretty much held my interest to the end.

Great start - foreshadowing the Ranger grandson and the appearance of the gang worked to pull me in - there was no way I couldn’t not want to see where this was leading.  

I was kind of surprised when you spun this away from Gabriel to frame the story around Anna and the investigation.  You threw the goal of the lottery ticket front and centre at the outset and pulled all these opposing characters into place - really putting Gabriel in the thick of it.  But from there it turned into more of a police procedural and that initial momentum (or moreover pressure on Gabriel) stalled as Anna tried to work out who killed Esperanza.  

That no-one but Gabriel and Huck (which doesn’t factor in till late) know of the ticket’s existence left that whole angle with little room to develop.  No-one’s chasing the money and Gabriel's left somewhat sidelined with Double V and his gang in the frame for the killing.  Gabriel (and Huck’s) motivations were left rather thin - just simple greed.  I wonder if that’s enough?

Some surprise choices - Pablo’s Ranger character didn’t go where I expected (I thought he’d be more pivotal to this).  And then killing off Gabriel threw me through a loop.  Not in a bad way, but with Double V in the frame for Esperanza’s murder and no mention of the lottery ticket (that no-one on the surface of the story knows about) around p.75 there’s little to drive the story forward aside from finding Gabriel’s murderer - which given his actions I’m not all that sympathetic to.

I’m not a fan of the climax.  You build to the reveal with Huck but in order to pull it off you’re left with having to explain how he did it via a 7 page chunk of flashback/exposition.  The logic is pretty tight.  The hows and whys I can get with (maybe a little more ‘why’ on Huck’s part - why risk it?), but execution wise if I were watching this unfold on screen I’d be left pretty underwhelmed.  Really surprised Huck went out in handcuffs - though I suspect most writers would have opted for a violent end, so I respect you took it someplace else.

The way this unfolded put me in mind of a TV police drama.  Don’t get me wrong, between the characters (main and secondary), sharp dialogue and writing it’s a pleasure to read; perhaps a little description heavy here and there but it works to paint the scene/characters.  Plot wise I’m torn as outlined above.  Huck’s a decent twist, but I struggled with the way it was handled.  What if you didn’t hide his deceit?  

It’s a matter of taste and I think my expectations from the premise and set-up suggested this would unfold with a lot more conflict as characters clash over the money.  In the end this is more about the characters and the emotional impact of people’s choices - it's a lot more subtle, so kudos for that.  

There’s hints at a deeper theme here - at the nature of hope (‘Esperanza’, the lottery etc.).  I guess Pablo’s lucky, in a way - in surviving his injury.  I’m not sure how or if it relates to Anna?  I’m not sure what you intended to say there - maybe I’m not digging deep enough?  Interested to get your take on that.

NOTES:

P.14 - ‘...as he carves the letter “V” with the knife in his right hand.’  I’m guessing it’s her head but on first glance it reads like he’s carving it in his own hand.

Do you need the Postwoman scene of her finding Esperanza?  Could just be referenced in dialogue.

‘His shots are random and disinterested, as if nothing or everything could be a clue and it ain’t his job to figure out which is which.’  -- love this.

Coroner/Medical Examiner - same character?

p.42 - the whole ‘then find him’ - to me this seemed a bit of a leap - at least at this point.  If they knew about the carving then perhaps they’d have more incentive - but that doesn’t come till later.  Do you need it?  It never comes to anything.

p.45 - the ‘He burst...etc.’ paragraph needs a look.

p.58 - would they not want to separate Stevie and Valenzuela before questioning them?  They’re giving out details of their investigation (being seen by the Addict and the transcript), would detectives show their hand like that without first ensuring an arrest and questioning suspects individually?  Not to mention they’re putting their witness at risk by not making an arrest.

p.77 - lunches/launches?

Pablo Sanchez?  Seems important - did I miss something?

Really, an inconvenient gun jam..? :)

Good luck with this (and the others entered into the comps etc.).  Again, this is all just opinion and preference so take it with a pinch of salt.    

Steve  
Posted by: eldave1, October 17th, 2016, 8:02pm; Reply: 23
Steve: - thanks so much for the full read and the notes. Truly appreciated.


Quoted from stevemiles
Dave, Thought I’d check out the first ten or so and this pretty much held my interest to the end.

Great start - foreshadowing the Ranger grandson and the appearance of the gang worked to pull me in - there was no way I couldn’t not want to see where this was leading.  


Well, that's good news. I had you for awhile anyway.


Quoted Text
I was kind of surprised when you spun this away from Gabriel to frame the story around Anna and the investigation.  You threw the goal of the lottery ticket front and centre at the outset and pulled all these opposing characters into place - really putting Gabriel in the thick of it.  But from there it turned into more of a police procedural and that initial momentum (or moreover pressure on Gabriel) stalled as Anna tried to work out who killed Esperanza.  

That no-one but Gabriel and Huck (which doesn’t factor in till late) know of the ticket’s existence left that whole angle with little room to develop.  No-one’s chasing the money and Gabriel's left somewhat sidelined with Double V and his gang in the frame for the killing.  Gabriel (and Huck’s) motivations were left rather thin - just simple greed.  I wonder if that’s enough?


Well, at least you were surprised. That is a good thing. I do appreciate your thoughts here as I have probably for 3 or 4 versions of this story and have battled over which way to go. One even involves a fast forward 10 years later where Gabriel, now rich and a community leader has that life unraveled when Esperanza's cold case is re-opened. Another has Esperanza found dead in the opening and the Gabriel murder for the ticket scene is in the form of flashback at the end. All of these have some chinks in the armor and I wrestled over which way to go. For me, I landed on the most interesting one - but I can certainly see alternatives say I really went back and forth myself.  


Quoted Text
Some surprise choices - Pablo’s Ranger character didn’t go where I expected (I thought he’d be more pivotal to this).  

He's not in a lot of scenes - but he was pivotal being the only person other than Huck would knew about the numbers.


Quoted Text
And then killing off Gabriel threw me through a loop.  Not in a bad way, but with Double V in the frame for Esperanza’s murder and no mention of the lottery ticket (that no-one on the surface of the story knows about) around p.75 there’s little to drive the story forward aside from finding Gabriel’s murderer - which given his actions I’m not all that sympathetic to.


Again - glad you were surprised. Again - I have/will wrestle with alternatives.


Quoted Text
I’m not a fan of the climax.  You build to the reveal with Huck but in order to pull it off you’re left with having to explain how he did it via a 7 page chunk of flashback/exposition.  The logic is pretty tight.  The hows and whys I can get with (maybe a little more ‘why’ on Huck’s part - why risk it?), but execution wise if I were watching this unfold on screen I’d be left pretty underwhelmed.  Really surprised Huck went out in handcuffs - though I suspect most writers would have opted for a violent end, so I respect you took it someplace else.


Sorry it didn't grab you. I did think Huck going out in a shoot out would have been too typical. I think you raise a valid point on Huck's motivation. Greed may not be enough. Will mull that over,


Quoted Text
The way this unfolded put me in mind of a TV police drama.  Don’t get me wrong, between the characters (main and secondary), sharp dialogue and writing it’s a pleasure to read; perhaps a little description heavy here and there but it works to paint the scene/characters.  Plot wise I’m torn as outlined above.  Huck’s a decent twist, but I struggled with the way it was handled.  What if you didn’t hide his deceit?  


If you were not surprised that Huck did it - then there is a problem. If you were surprised - then I think I'm okay. I really think if I lay out where that lottery ticket ends up up front then I lose the suspense of the story. But certainly will consider your point of view in the re-write.


Quoted Text
It’s a matter of taste and I think my expectations from the premise and set-up suggested this would unfold with a lot more conflict as characters clash over the money.  In the end this is more about the characters and the emotional impact of people’s choices - it's a lot more subtle, so kudos for that.  


In one of the versions I mentioned -above - where Pablo becomes rich - he doesn't start out as a drug addict. He's just wants to do well and is over come by the greed of the moment. The money - while making him wealthy and respected, destroys his family and ultimately - when it is discovered what the source of the money was - his own life. Think you may have enjoyed that version better. I am trying to recover it (lost in an accidental over write of the file - i.e., saved one version of the story over another version).


Quoted Text
There’s hints at a deeper theme here - at the nature of hope (‘Esperanza’, the lottery etc.).  I guess Pablo’s lucky, in a way - in surviving his injury.  I’m not sure how or if it relates to Anna?  I’m not sure what you intended to say there - maybe I’m not digging deep enough?  Interested to get your take on that.


See above - think I have spoken to most of that. What I am least satisfied with in this script is what happens to Anna - I do think there is something missing there.

NOTES:


Quoted Text
P.14 - ‘...as he carves the letter “V” with the knife in his right hand.’  I’m guessing it’s her head but on first glance it reads like he’s carving it in his own hand.


Based on your comment I changed it to:

"With the washcloth covering his left hand, Gabriel holds Esperanza’s chin as he carves the letter “V” in her forehead."

I think that's better - thanks.  


Quoted Text
Do you need the Postwoman scene of her finding Esperanza?  Could just be referenced in dialogue.


I think so. I like that it reinforces the fact that Esperanza was so alone, a post woman (rather than family of friends) found her body.


Quoted Text
‘His shots are random and disinterested, as if nothing or everything could be a clue and it ain’t his job to figure out which is which.’  -- love this.


thanks


Quoted Text
Coroner/Medical Examiner - same character?


No - they're to different people.


Quoted Text
p.42 - the whole ‘then find him’ - to me this seemed a bit of a leap - at least at this point.  If they knew about the carving then perhaps they’d have more incentive - but that doesn’t come till later.  Do you need it?  It never comes to anything.


It was meant to foreshadow that Double V had a more than normal interest in Esperanza - revealed later that her son was a member of Double V's gang and that no one was going to get away with killing one of their own. It may be too subtle though. I will consider your suggesion to delete here.


Quoted Text
p.45 - the ‘He burst...etc.’ paragraph needs a look.


Has been fixed along with a mess of typos - couldn't submit an update due to the freeze because of the OWC.  


Quoted Text
p.58 - would they not want to separate Stevie and Valenzuela before questioning them?  They’re giving out details of their investigation (being seen by the Addict and the transcript), would detectives show their hand like that without first ensuring an arrest and questioning suspects individually?  Not to mention they’re putting their witness at risk by not making an arrest.


Damn - that's a good point. I'll need to rework that.


Quoted Text
p.77 - lunches/launches?


lunges


Quoted Text
Pablo Sanchez?  Seems important - did I miss something?


Typo - fixed in the update.


Quoted Text
Really, an inconvenient gun jam..? :)


Okay - you got me there. I stared at that page for a day - how the hell is he going to get the upper hand and settled on the old gun jam trope so I could move forward. It definitely needs something different.


Quoted Text
Good luck with this (and the others entered into the comps etc.).  Again, this is all just opinion and preference so take it with a pinch of salt.    


Again - thanks for the read and taking time to write out your comments - a great service to me and really appreciated.
Posted by: stevemiles, October 19th, 2016, 2:48pm; Reply: 24
Dave,

Fair enough on Pablo knowing Esperanza’s numbers - I’d forgotten that.  I did like that Double V’s connection to her was of a different nature - that of helping her.

Huck’s involvement was a surprise.  At the point of Gabriel’s murder I really had no idea where this was heading.  Him killing Gabriel and turning on Anna when she finds out feels like it could have more substance.  Perhaps understanding him (and/or their relationship) a little better could go some way.  It’s a huge betrayal, but it comes across as rather matter-of-fact.    

Let me know if you ever recover the other draft, I’d be down to take a look.  I’ve done a similar thing - saving a rewrite over an older draft.  Luckily I email myself a PDF copy every now and then as back-up - still had to copy/paste and re-format the whole thing into Celtex from PDF.  It ain’t fun.

All the best,

Steve
Posted by: eldave1, October 19th, 2016, 8:08pm; Reply: 25

Quoted Text
Huck’s involvement was a surprise.  At the point of Gabriel’s murder I really had no idea where [quote]this was heading.  Him killing Gabriel and turning on Anna when she finds out feels like it could have more substance.  Perhaps understanding him (and/or their relationship) a little better could go some way.  It’s a huge betrayal, but it comes across as rather matter-of-fact.  


I got the typos fixed and am waiting to get that up - but the uploads are still locked. In terms of the above - I am making notes - including yours and others for the next draft and two items I want to address relate to your comment above and apply to both Gabriel and Huck. I think there needs to be more than just mere greed there to justify their actions. Working on this:

Gabe being in huge debt with a drug dealer who is now threatening him and his family if he don't pay. He gets the last threatening call just before he gets the call from Esperanza.  

Think of adding a gambling problem for Huck.

Anyway - playing around with those two themes.  


Quoted Text
Let me know if you ever recover the other draft, I’d be down to take a look.  I’ve done a similar thing - saving a rewrite over an older draft.  Luckily I email myself a PDF copy every now and then as back-up - still had to copy/paste and re-format the whole thing into Celtex from PDF.  It ain’t fun.


Yeah - this was so irritating. Not only did I lay it over on my hard drive - but being the careful back-up person I am - layed it over the file on my thumb drive right the fok after that. Arrgh.

Thanks again
Posted by: JohnN, October 21st, 2016, 11:35am; Reply: 26
Dave, only read the 1st 10 pages so far but based on those and the comments, it seems you may have something special here.

I have a couple of suggestions.

1. Opening scene. Why not start with credits over images that set up the movie?
Something like...As credits roll - we see a poor, gang-infested area before ending up at Esperanza's home. Her tiny kitchen- emptying can of refried beans into a pot on the stove. In the living room, the Lotto on TV, the picture of her grandson nearby next to one of Jesus, her Lotto ticket on the table. Shots like that. Utilize the irony of a someone whose "luck" is about to change."  End credits on the TV and ping pong balls spitting out the winning numbers.  A lot revealed without a word said.

2. Lotto computer tracks and notifies where winning tickets were bought. So the store would know it sold the winning ticket. The next day I believe. They also get an amount equal to something like 10%.

3.  That brings us to other flaw I see in your 10 pages... the camera at the liquor store. He finds out after considering murder? Too convenient.

He needs to find out before.

4.  That's why I had Esperanza in the kitchen during opening credits. Maybe Gabriel visits the winning store BEFORE the call.

5. Since you show the murder, I think the 1st ten pages should focus on Gabriel. He needs and his contemplations.

We should see how and why he'd consider murder and how things seem to fall in place.
A. I assume he needs money - show that. Then...
B. He visits liquor store to check out their celebrating and happens to notice that camera doesn't work.
C. A day or so later, he gets the call from Esperanza. She saw on news where winning ticket was sold?  Something like that. She also mentions she hasn't told anyone else.

He now knows, he's the only one that knowsshe has the winning Lotto ticket!  You've shown motive and opportunity just fell in his lap.

That give Gabriel an emotional dilemma you should bring out... His internal debate. He should seem uncertain IMO. That is until he's actually holding the Lotto ticket in his hands.  That create the moment he either has to kill her or hand it back to her.

Well that's my 2 cents so far. I'll read the rest this weekend.

JohnN
Posted by: eldave1, October 21st, 2016, 4:54pm; Reply: 27

Quoted from JohnN
Dave, only read the 1st 10 pages so far but based on those and the comments, it seems you may have something special here.


Thanks, buddy - always appreciate a read.


Quoted Text
1. Opening scene. Why not start with credits over images that set up the movie?
Something like...As credits roll - we see a poor, gang-infested area before ending up at Esperanza's home. Her tiny kitchen- emptying can of refried beans into a pot on the stove. In the living room, the Lotto on TV, the picture of her grandson nearby next to one of Jesus, her Lotto ticket on the table. Shots like that. Utilize the irony of a someone whose "luck" is about to change."  End credits on the TV and ping pong balls spitting out the winning numbers.  A lot revealed without a word said.


I don't ever do the credit over images as I figure the director can figure that out. But your ideas on the set-up are definitely worth considering.  They would be compelling images. I'm tweaking the story right now - definitely might use this.


Quoted Text
2. Lotto computer tracks and notifies where winning tickets were bought. So the store would know it sold the winning ticket. The next day I believe. They also get an amount equal to something like 10%.


That is correct. The store is announced the next day It is revealed in a newscast on page 16.


Quoted Text
3.  That brings us to other flaw I see in your 10 pages... the camera at the liquor store. He finds out after considering murder? Too convenient.

He needs to find out before.


Don't agree here. Retailers are not required to have cameras in the first place. I think the plot point is fine - when he sees the liquor store he has an ah shit moment that maybe they recorded it - checks it out just in case. As a side note - the scene is on the potential chopping block - I am leaning to deleting it entirely and just not referencing a camera at all.


Quoted Text
4.  That's why I had Esperanza in the kitchen during opening credits. Maybe Gabriel visits the winning store BEFORE the call.


You mean, wait an hour before calling Esperanza back so he could check out the liquor store first??


Quoted Text
5. Since you show the murder, I think the 1st ten pages should focus on Gabriel. He needs and his contemplations.


Concur here and have something in the works.


Quoted Text
We should see how and why he'd consider murder and how things seem to fall in place.
A. I assume he needs money - show that. Then...
B. He visits liquor store to check out their celebrating and happens to notice that camera doesn't work.
C. A day or so later, he gets the call from Esperanza. She saw on news where winning ticket was sold?  Something like that. She also mentions she hasn't told anyone else.


I appreciate the thoughts - but am not a fan of the above approach.

Overall - very grateful for your feedback, John and for taking the effort to share your thoughts - damn nice of you.
Posted by: eldave1, October 28th, 2016, 10:46am; Reply: 28
Okay - got some changes made based on the feedback received here - again, thanks to all. I am now headed off for a well deserved vacation with the wife (Panama Canal cruise) where I will break from the writing and enjoy drinks and gambling. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Again - thanks to all for the helpful comments.
Posted by: MarkItZero, November 16th, 2016, 3:39pm; Reply: 29
Okay, here's some notes. I know it took awhile but when you see the sheer volume of rambling you'll wish I never did them in the first place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o87nwie571o75gz/laloteria.pdf?dl=0
Posted by: eldave1, November 17th, 2016, 3:11pm; Reply: 30

Quoted from MarkItZero
Okay, here's some notes. I know it took awhile but when you see the sheer volume of rambling you'll wish I never did them in the first place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o87nwie571o75gz/laloteria.pdf?dl=0


Thanks, James - the notes were great! I sent you an email with my comments - thanks again. Super stuff.
Posted by: eldave1, January 1st, 2017, 11:39am; Reply: 31
Just got a revised draft up.

Not looking for re-reads as I got another revision coming. But wanted to thank all who have read and commented so far - the feedback was invaluable. Still have to incorporate some of the suggestions but am happy with the direction it is going. I think I may be one or two more drafts away from being done.

Again - thanks for all the detailed comments. This place (SS) is a goldmine.
Posted by: AlsoBen, January 1st, 2017, 9:50pm; Reply: 32
HeyDave, I haven't read the whole thing but I've read the first act and recorder my thought streams of conscientiousness haha. I've been meaning to give this a go but I normally struggle with mysteries and crime.

I promise to finish this up in the next week.

I appreciate the bolded slugs, first of all. Makes things so much easier to read.

The conversation between Lobo and Gabriel is so well done. Absolutely A+ dialogue. Description of Anna and her dad Frank could be a little less over written if that makes sense. It's a long paragraph and we only established the fact that they are both LAPD officers. Maybe just a quick morning ritual followed by looking at the picture. The dialogue that she Utters seems a tiny bit expository.

Aside from that the conversation between Anna and her dad as they convert between rooms is so naturalistic and well done.

I'm only on page 7 and I am already enamoured with how you introduce characters and set scenes. Four instance when Huck is introduced I had a very clear picture in my head that very really happens with screenplays.

More to come

PS i love the strong latinx prescense in the script. I see so many movies/scripts set in SoCal which barely acknowledge that part of the population, or use tokenism. Even little things like having your phone conversations in spanish (as the character would be more comfortable doing) is a great representation of culture. Props on that.
Posted by: eldave1, January 2nd, 2017, 10:36am; Reply: 33
Thanks much for the comments Ben - appreciated for sure. I agree with the need to shorten the Anna bedroom scene - need to get that down to one or two blocks.
Posted by: PrussianMosby, January 3rd, 2017, 2:54am; Reply: 34
Yo, Dave, I just looked into the script to check out the introduction and hope I can help there, as you so frequently did when it comes to my stuff. So, I tried to get out everything I think about those 11 pages I read.


Your formatting is very well, I think. However, there were few things that were very noticeable to me. Not in a clear negative way, but simply noticeable:

1. You use many dashes. At p8-10 I eventually got used to that style. Sometimes the dashes are very well chosen of you BUT they are also simply very widely used. It really really does not bother me personally, although, generally, I don't know if it's so good when the reader notices clearly: he does work a lot with punctuation… It's an accentuation not related to picture and story, rather to format you know.

Imo – with cutting a few of those dashes, you even strengthen the impact at the point when you actually use one of them in handsome manner, as you quite often do. Hope it makes sense.


2. Before mini slugs, you use colons.

That is not needed imo. The use of mini slugs, to me, is one of the few situations when it's perfectly fine, too even work with half sentences and a "more" free syntax above and below the slug.

As screenwriters/readers our mind is used to focus on and realize the new location for a moment, and then just go on reading. You don't need that interruption through colon, better just let it flow on.


3. At some point, I realized that you have a lot of description going on when beginning a scene. Sometimes it felt like reading 2 paragraphs and more since what I see – Starts to move!


4. You could trust your live writing some more, rather giving an extra information that only repeats/explains your already beautiful description. Most noticeable example to me was:

Anna blows air between pursed lips - how did this
conversation get started?

I'm not against some free exppression in a writer's words, but here, the first part of the sentence does perfectly achieve what you say in the second part. Trust those descriptions! They are fine. You give trust to us in trusting yourself. Otherwise, it could quickly come across as: Okay, I explain it cause you don't get the context... which, if done to often, fulfills the exact opposite of reaching a trustfull relationship with the reader.


5. Some parts are over-descriptive, for example: Gabriel has a key in his hands and stuff like that. I don't need that picture, because THOSE ARE NO PICTURES.


6. There's a slight inconsistence in the usage of character names. Some have first name and surname. Some have only first name, then there was the odd long DETECTIVE ANNA RAMIREZ.

It's an unnecessary playing around. I don't know the perfect AE term (shenanigan?) but it's really just an noticeable, irritating choice of inconsistency.

I myself only use one name, one word, for one character. There's only one variance I use: I sometimes give bad guys the surname and good guys the first name what serves some orientation, I like to believe :-)

Bottom line is, those character names we read a million times in your script need to take as few space as possible. Put simply: things like names are just clear as shit... after five pages we anyway connect faces with the first three letters that reach our eye... the rest is noticable playing around...


Story: I left the story when Gabriel goes for a ride to the old lady with the ticket. In those last pages of the first ten, the script was obviously gaining momentum and getting better, and I definitely like to read on when there's time.

Your plotting is matured and you truly drag us into the story in an intelligent way. Of course some editing and rewriting could make each moment even better, but the general structure feels good to read. There's nothing more to say: it's good story-wise. The introduction of Ramirez and the accompanying starting plot about the lottery ticket f.i. -- all good at the story front.

There is one point that I didn't like and you should rethink in any case, imo:
It's not a problem that we're not 100% clear about the protagonist yet. (Though I'd put my money rather on Ramirez than Gabriel). It's fine. I think the story already foreshadows a social study, with lots of real-life antiheroes having to take questionable decisions like in: Crash, Training Day, La Confidential. All that may be settled in the ethnical group of Latinos – at least that's what the characters' names imply to me as a not-knowing German…

The problem I see yet, lies/starts in the very first scene. It's super generic to have a "surprised at the car in the dark" - scene. To me, it's also super generic how you handled this story ignition if your true ambition is to go deep in characterization of these people in this script.

The scene is well told but -- it's still feels too meaningless and bland, as a low budget crime story would start, that bases on gangsters searching our empathy when using words like "gringo" with their desert eagle in hand.

And I don't believe that is the path of your story. Not at all.

The major problem that starts in this scene and continues till page 11 is that we don't know any reason why Gabriel owes Lobo that money - his life's problem. Then, as told, it feels super easy how Lobo gets Gabriel's girl and faces Gabriel with a fait accompli, like a snap.

There might be a reason you left that out, and roll up that whole thing about the money from behind - I really like to believe that you don't leave it unexplained. But even then there's a problem:

As described above, the scene is not strong enough.

The credit you may get later – about how intelligent it was of you to not tell Gabriel's exact mistakes and problems from the start – does not help you live on screen in that scene.

If there's no character depth and a creative, intriguing plot we never saw before that way – then you just throw your slight different version of the "surprised at the car in the dark" scene at us.

When you go deep within those 120 pages, and I'd bet my ass you do, then the first scene must mirror the intelligence and characteristics of the screenplay 100% --
character-wise
or/and
intriguing in case of story experience, creativity, freshness.

I hope you understand what I mean. Even if some that I state about that scene may sound harsh, like having a low-budget feeling etc. , I just hope you would want my clear opinion on it. Sometimes we don't see it all from the inside, and since I think you set pretty high standards toward yourself, I better be clear that this opening scene may collide with your definite level of aspiration.


Otherwise, looking first time into one of your features, I completely understand now why you got so much success with readers and in those competitions lately.

It's really very good, and in every imaginable facet of screenwriting, there's not much missing here compared to how a professional, produced high quality screenplay works.

However, I'm looking forward to read it through at some point…

Alex
Posted by: eldave1, January 3rd, 2017, 5:55pm; Reply: 35
First, Alex: thanks much for the detailed comments. Very much appreciated that you took the time.


Quoted Text
1. You use many dashes. At p8-10 I eventually got used to that style. Sometimes the dashes are very well chosen of you BUT they are also simply very widely used. It really really does not bother me personally, although, generally, I don't know if it's so good when the reader notices clearly: he does work a lot with punctuation… It's an accentuation not related to picture and story, rather to format you know.

Imo – with cutting a few of those dashes, you even strengthen the impact at the point when you actually use one of them in handsome manner, as you quite often do. Hope it makes sense.


I think this is a solid observation. When I do my final clean-up I actually search on "-" and eliminate several of them. I think they really only work best when you are indicating a pause in the action. As an example:

Lobo lights a cigarette - flicks the match against Gabriel’s
chest.


I'm okay with because I am trying to reflect a moment between the two actions (lighting the cig and flicking the match). In other cases, I think they can be eliminated. Thanks for the observation.


Quoted Text
2. Before mini slugs, you use colons.

That is not needed imo. The use of mini slugs, to me, is one of the few situations when it's perfectly fine, too even work with half sentences and a "more" free syntax above and below the slug.


Not sure I agree. I think they are helpful for continuing action. e.g.:

Dave walks down the hallway and enters the:

BEDROOM

Agree that they are not needed without continuing action.


Quoted Text
3. At some point, I realized that you have a lot of description going on when beginning a scene. Sometimes it felt like reading 2 paragraphs and more since what I see – Starts to move!


I will take a look at this. I am torn. Some like the descriptions. Others find the way too long.


Quoted Text
4. You could trust your live writing some more, rather giving an extra information that only repeats/explains your already beautiful description. Most noticeable example to me was:

Anna blows air between pursed lips - how did this
conversation get started?

I'm not against some free exppression in a writer's words, but here, the first part of the sentence does perfectly achieve what you say in the second part. Trust those descriptions! They are fine. You give trust to us in trusting yourself. Otherwise, it could quickly come across as: Okay, I explain it cause you don't get the context... which, if done to often, fulfills the exact opposite of reaching a trustfull relationship with the reader.


I like the aside here and think it along with the physical action is needed. Certainly others hate them as a general rule.  


Quoted Text
5. Some parts are over-descriptive, for example: Gabriel has a key in his hands and stuff like that. I don't need that picture, because THOSE ARE NO PICTURES.


Not sure I understand - "those are no pictures." I assume the line you are referencing is:

In one hand, a coffee thermos. In the other, a set of car
keys. As he reaches a:


Your saying you prefer not referencing that he is carrying car keys?


Quoted Text
6. There's a slight inconsistence in the usage of character names. Some have first name and surname. Some have only first name, then there was the odd long DETECTIVE ANNA RAMIREZ.

It's an unnecessary playing around. I don't know the perfect AE term (shenanigan?) but it's really just an noticeable, irritating choice of inconsistency.

I myself only use one name, one word, for one character. There's only one variance I use: I sometimes give bad guys the surname and good guys the first name what serves some orientation, I like to believe :-)

Bottom line is, those character names we read a million times in your script need to take as few space as possible. Put simply: things like names are just clear as shit... after five pages we anyway connect faces with the first three letters that reach our eye... the rest is noticable playing around...


Not using "shenanigans" here or playing around. As a rule, I am perfectly okay with using the first name for some characters and the last one for others and a title (e.g., CAPTAIN, etc.) for others - especially those that appear infrequently.  In terms of DETECTIVE ANNA RAMIREZ - I think you are correct that her first name would suffice. Good catch
Quoted Text


Story: I left the story when Gabriel goes for a ride to the old lady with the ticket. In those last pages of the first ten, the script was obviously gaining momentum and getting better, and I definitely like to read on when there's time.

Your plotting is matured and you truly drag us into the story in an intelligent way. Of course some editing and rewriting could make each moment even better, but the general structure feels good to read. There's nothing more to say: it's good story-wise. The introduction of Ramirez and the accompanying starting plot about the lottery ticket f.i. -- all good at the story front.


Thanks


Quoted Text
There is one point that I didn't like and you should rethink in any case, imo:
It's not a problem that we're not 100% clear about the protagonist yet. (Though I'd put my money rather on Ramirez than Gabriel). It's fine. I think the story already foreshadows a social study, with lots of real-life antiheroes having to take questionable decisions like in: Crash, Training Day, La Confidential. All that may be settled in the ethnical group of Latinos – at least that's what the characters' names imply to me as a not-knowing German…


Yep - that is pretty much it.


Quoted Text
The problem I see yet, lies/starts in the very first scene. It's super generic to have a "surprised at the car in the dark" - scene. To me, it's also super generic how you handled this story ignition if your true ambition is to go deep in characterization of these people in this script.

The scene is well told but -- it's still feels too meaningless and bland, as a low budget crime story would start, that bases on gangsters searching our empathy when using words like "gringo" with their desert eagle in hand.

And I don't believe that is the path of your story. Not at all.

The major problem that starts in this scene and continues till page 11 is that we don't know any reason why Gabriel owes Lobo that money - his life's problem. Then, as told, it feels super easy how Lobo gets Gabriel's girl and faces Gabriel with a fait accompli, like a snap.

There might be a reason you left that out, and roll up that whole thing about the money from behind - I really like to believe that you don't leave it unexplained. But even then there's a problem:

As described above, the scene is not strong enough.

The credit you may get later – about how intelligent it was of you to not tell Gabriel's exact mistakes and problems from the start – does not help you live on screen in that scene.

If there's no character depth and a creative, intriguing plot we never saw before that way – then you just throw your slight different version of the "surprised at the car in the dark" scene at us.

When you go deep within those 120 pages, and I'd bet my ass you do, then the first scene must mirror the intelligence and characteristics of the screenplay 100% --
character-wise
or/and
intriguing in case of story experience, creativity, freshness.

I hope you understand what I mean. Even if some that I state about that scene may sound harsh, like having a low-budget feeling etc. , I just hope you would want my clear opinion on it. Sometimes we don't see it all from the inside, and since I think you set pretty high standards toward yourself, I better be clear that this opening scene may collide with your definite level of aspiration.


The root of Gabriel's debt was drugs. I thought that became obvious when he was snorting cocaine in his car on page 5.  Perhaps it would be clearer if I made a reference to it in the opening scene - but it didn't quite seem natural for Lobo to say something like are you going to be pay me for the drugs - because they both already know what the money is owed for. Maybe a line along the line of - do you know what happened to the last junkie who stiffed me. I think it is clear - but think it worthwhile to revisit the scene to make sure that it is.


Quoted Text
Otherwise, looking first time into one of your features, I completely understand now why you got so much success with readers and in those competitions lately.

It's really very good, and in every imaginable facet of screenwriting, there's not much missing here compared to how a professional, produced high quality screenplay works.

However, I'm looking forward to read it through at some point…


Thanks.

And thanks for all of the feedback - thought provoking and I know you took a lot of time to frame these thoughts. Really appreciated, mate.
Posted by: FrankH, February 12th, 2017, 6:13pm; Reply: 36
Hey Dave,

I'd like to take a stab at your script. interesting title and logline. Noticed you posted a couple of revisions. If you're planning a re-write in the very near future, I'll hold off on the review.

Frank
Posted by: eldave1, February 12th, 2017, 6:26pm; Reply: 37

Quoted from FrankH
Hey Dave,

I'd like to take a stab at your script. interesting title and logline. Noticed you posted a couple of revisions. If you're planning a re-write in the very near future, I'll hold off on the review.

Frank


Thanks Frank. The most recentversion is up. Not working on a rewrite
Posted by: FrankH, February 18th, 2017, 6:28pm; Reply: 38
Hey Dave,

Read your script.
Not read any other reviews, so I might double up on stuff.

Digest my feedback as you wish. I'm new to screenwriting. These are my opinions.

Overall I liked it. Good dialogue. I could easily visualize the scenes you set-up and showed us. Characters came alive.
Also liked the way you "solved" the crimes, piece by piece.
Very interesting piece of work.

P1: "A giddy MALE REPORTER (30) with a face you just want to punch " --- great description
P15: " Worn carpet meets faded linoleum" --- great description
P42: "HUCK Basically, a five-foot pile of shit." --- funny stuff.
P78: "Little Stevie sits in a chair at a metal table, twitching like a nervous chihuahua" --- again funny, great description.
P87: "PHYSICAL THERAPIST Thank you, soldier" --- I really liked this one

Okay, onto some nit picks and other stuff:
In action, replacing "and" with a "," can make a script a little leaner.
"is/are/am/does" tend to tell rather than show in action.
CONT'D seems to lose its fan base these days, just remove it.
Words like "start" and "then" really not needed. Use "stands" instead of "stands up". "Sits" instead of "sits down"
P8: "puts on a headset on and presses the answer button" --- one "on" too many.
P13: "KOREAN OWNER (50), He has bald patches" --- a "." instead of a ","
P15: "As Esperanza shuffles towards a recliner in the center of the room. She points over at a television." --- "," instead of "."
P43: "DECTECTIVE ANNA RAMIREZ" --- why her rank and full name, throughout the script you refer to her as Anna.
P44: "LITTLE STEVIE (reading paper) “..." --- not sure what this is, maybe some leftovers from an older version.
P46: Anna's dialogue, " Anything we found could be thrown out -- " --- she's not really being interrupted, so the use of "--" might not be necessary.
P53: Anna's dialogue in parenthesis, I don't know what that means.
P57: " He places the barrel of his revolver on Double V’s forehead." -- maybe too soft to use "places"
P64: "ANNA You point? " --- is that suppose to be "your point?"
P65: " Two CORONER ASSISTANT’s " --- get rid of the "'"
P69: "HUCK You don’t have to go the funeral." --- missing "to"
P73: " SHOUTING of reporters " --- cap R in reporters
P119: "PABLO I’m giving most if it to Saint Mary’s." --- replace "of" with "if"

I guess numbers should be written out in dialogue, but in this script it makes it more clear and more sense not to do it.

I felt some slug-lines were a little bit over the top, too much information.

You transition to scenes with a ":". Is that a personal preference or a format thing?
Looks like the use of " - " replaces ",". Is that the thinking behind the use of " - "?

The one thing I was not a big fan of was the use of additional explanations or narrative in your action lines, usually followed by a " _ ".
At times overwritten, too many details. Some narrative is okay, makes for a fun read, but loads up the script with unfilmable pages.

Another thing, I'm not a big fan of parantheticals either. I believe some can be added to action lines and some can be removed.
I would keep parenthecals to a minimum. I think your writing is very good, so it doesn't really need most of the parenthecals.

Isn't (O.C.) mostly used in TV scripts. (O.S.) in movie scripts.

Maybe cut some fat off the ending when Anna knows it's Huck.

Conclusion:
Enjoyed reading your script. It felt authentic. A couple of nice twists.
My advice would be to trim off some pages, possible remove some scenes and make it leaner.
The story is the thing. I felt your story is a really good one.

Good luck with your script.

Frank
Posted by: eldave1, February 18th, 2017, 9:37pm; Reply: 39
Frank - much thanks for the review.


Quoted Text
In action, replacing "and" with a "," can make a script a little leaner.
"is/are/am/does" tend to tell rather than show in action.


Solid advice - there are a ton of these I can delete


Quoted Text
CONT'D seems to lose its fan base these days, just remove it.


I agree - only intend to use it when there is a dialogue break from one page to the next.


Quoted Text
Words like "start" and "then" really not needed. Use "stands" instead of "stands up". "Sits" instead of "sits down"


Good - picked out a bunch of these for deletion as well


Quoted Text
P8: "puts on a headset on and presses the answer button" --- one "on" too many
P13: "KOREAN OWNER (50), He has bald patches" --- a "." instead of a ","
P15: "As Esperanza shuffles towards a recliner in the center of the room. She points over at a television." --- "," instead of "."
P43: "DECTECTIVE ANNA RAMIREZ" --- why her rank and full name, throughout the script you refer to her as Anna.
P44: "LITTLE STEVIE (reading paper) “..." --- not sure what this is, maybe some leftovers from an older version.
P46: Anna's dialogue, " Anything we found could be thrown out -- " --- she's not really being interrupted, so the use of "--" might not be necessary.
P53: Anna's dialogue in parenthesis, I don't know what that means.
P57: " He places the barrel of his revolver on Double V’s forehead." -- maybe too soft to use "places"
P64: "ANNA You point? " --- is that suppose to be "your point?"
P65: " Two CORONER ASSISTANT’s " --- get rid of the "'"
P69: "HUCK You don’t have to go the funeral." --- missing "to"
P73: " SHOUTING of reporters " --- cap R in reporters
P119: "PABLO I’m giving most if it to Saint Mary’s." --- replace "of" with "if"


Thanks a million! It is amazing how many times I can go through something and still miss these things. I have now corrected them all. Great catches.


Quoted Text
I guess numbers should be written out in dialogue, but in this script it makes it more clear and more sense not to do it.


Yeah, I normally write them out - it just seemed to be clearer going the other way here.


Quoted Text
I felt some slug-lines were a little bit over the top, too much information.


I have mixed emotions on this. One school of thought is that since you have to use a line anyway, include as much relevant information as you can and it is a scene heading - not dialogue or action.

I do agree that the scene headings should never cause a hiccup in the read. Bulkier ones could do that - I'll take a fresh look at them.


Quoted Text
You transition to scenes with a ":". Is that a personal preference or a format thing?


I took to doing this when using mini-slugs and it is totally non standard. You are correct. Technically, it should be:

INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY

Dave turns off the TV and enters the

BEDROOM

His wife stirs is waiting.

In normal writing, a colon gives emphasis to whatever you are introducing because the reader must come to a full stop at the colon, which causes them to pay attention to what comes next.

Example:
Richard was the best person for the job because he had experience in one key area: teaching.

I kind of viewed the mini-slug the same way - I wanted the eyes to stop there. I know it is technically incorrect. I am still mulling it over and will probably go back to the standard.


Quoted Text
Looks like the use of " - " replaces ",". Is that the thinking behind the use of " - "?


Sometimes. Again, I know technically a comma is appropriate. I like the - rather than the , when there is, at least in my mind, some time lag between the actions. For example:

"Lobo lights a cigarette - flicks the match against Gabriel’s chest."

Should technically have a comma after cigarette rather than a -. But to my eye, I like the - because it connotes some time lapse between the two actions. Just a style choice.


Quoted Text
The one thing I was not a big fan of was the use of additional explanations or narrative in your action lines, usually followed by a " _ ".
At times overwritten, too many details. Some narrative is okay, makes for a fun read, but loads up the script with unfilmable pages.


Others have made similar comments. While others have said they like the descriptions for purposes of setting the right tone. I am trying to find the right balance so will definitely take a another look. I am comfortable with unfilmables if I feel they are important to tone and place.


Quoted Text
Another thing, I'm not a big fan of parantheticals either. I believe some can be added to action lines and some can be removed.
I would keep parenthecals to a minimum. I think your writing is very good, so it doesn't really need most of the parenthecals.


Agree and disagree. I like the use of them if they replace an action line that would otherwise be needed: e.g.,

GABRIEL
Oh, God no. Sorry - sorry.
(as he walks off)
Keep the change.

To be, that is just more efficient than writing an extra line and the required blank space with him walking off.

I like them when the tone is opposite the dialogue (e.g., sarcastically)

I don't like them when the emotion is either obvious or best left to the actor/director - I will take another look to see if there are opportunities to delete any in this area.


Quoted Text
Isn't (O.C.) mostly used in TV scripts. (O.S.) in movie scripts.


I think they are interchangeable.


Quoted Text
Maybe cut some fat off the ending when Anna knows it's Huck.


I agree it could use some trimming


Quoted Text
Conclusion:
Enjoyed reading your script. It felt authentic. A couple of nice twists.
My advice would be to trim off some pages, possible remove some scenes and make it leaner.
The story is the thing. I felt your story is a really good one.

Good luck with your script.


Thanks  so much for the read, Frank. Very valuable feedback. Make sure to hit me up if there is anything of yours I can look at.
Posted by: Gum, February 18th, 2017, 10:47pm; Reply: 40
Hey Dave,

Thought I’d give this a read. I noticed you (somewhat) sealed this off, indicating you’re not doing any more revisions, so this might come off as unnecessary info. Anyway, I read it all. Truthfully, I loaded it into Spreeder-dot-com and fired it into my head at about 400 wpm… I caught the bulk of what transpired, as well, got a feel for the overall cadence of the script in terms of emotional frequency.

The first act had a nice rise and fall, like breathing, the script felt alive. Shortly into the second act, however, it took on a stasis that seemed to stay with the story till the end (engaging but, had a loss of up and down/in and out motion).

There could be a few things shed to tighten it up IMO. First and foremost was the introduction of Pedro and his loss of two limbs. This would be congruent with months of being bed ridden, followed by immense psychological trauma and, finally, months of rehab in order to walk with prosthetic(s). He doesn’t have to disappear altogether but, perhaps can show at the end to finalize the direction of the lottery winnings.

Your protag, Anna, at times appears to be along for the ride. She is then hit with the realization that the deceased lady was her Nanny? I didn’t feel the heartfelt drive from her to solve anything really. She received a lot of info via other departments doing their thing and, basically handing her the results. A lone fingerprint is somewhat nonchalant regarding the ‘who done it’ genre… however, the belt analysis was a good touch of sleuth activity.

Pedro shows up to spoon feed the task force some info about his father being a member of the Varrio Nuevo Estrada, their gang rituals of tattoos, etc, that I believe could be passed onto Anna from a gang control unit after she inquires about the tattoos in the Polaroid. This would further cement her involvement in being a true detective. The tickets may have also been Anna’s find but, she had Huck look into it while she was engaged in some other aspect of the case, which could set him up as saying something along the lines of a “false lead”, which in turn forces her to harbour doubts about Huck because she knows there is something about the tickets that don’t add up.

I hope some any of this helps, if not and you’re gonna let this script sit for a while, that’s cool also. I really did enjoy the story and, I think Gabriel could have played a larger part with respect to why he would go to such lengths to ensure Lobo (the Wolf) would not make good on his words of hurting those closest to him. I believe Gabriel would have understood the complications of someone else claiming a major prize winning ticket and, might have gone to elaborate lengths to show the audience how a scam could work, by having inside information on how the system works. That might be a fun road to travel; a story within a story… murder and fraud wrapped in an enigma.

Best of luck!
Posted by: eldave1, February 19th, 2017, 10:59am; Reply: 41

Quoted from Gum
Hey Dave,

Thought I’d give this a read. I noticed you (somewhat) sealed this off, indicating you’re not doing any more revisions, so this might come off as unnecessary info. Anyway, I read it all. Truthfully, I loaded it into Spreeder-dot-com and fired it into my head at about 400 wpm… I caught the bulk of what transpired, as well, got a feel for the overall cadence of the script in terms of emotional frequency.

The first act had a nice rise and fall, like breathing, the script felt alive. Shortly into the second act, however, it took on a stasis that seemed to stay with the story till the end (engaging but, had a loss of up and down/in and out motion).

There could be a few things shed to tighten it up IMO. First and foremost was the introduction of Pedro and his loss of two limbs. This would be congruent with months of being bed ridden, followed by immense psychological trauma and, finally, months of rehab in order to walk with prosthetic(s). He doesn’t have to disappear altogether but, perhaps can show at the end to finalize the direction of the lottery winnings.

Your protag, Anna, at times appears to be along for the ride. She is then hit with the realization that the deceased lady was her Nanny? I didn’t feel the heartfelt drive from her to solve anything really. She received a lot of info via other departments doing their thing and, basically handing her the results. A lone fingerprint is somewhat nonchalant regarding the ‘who done it’ genre… however, the belt analysis was a good touch of sleuth activity.

Pedro shows up to spoon feed the task force some info about his father being a member of the Varrio Nuevo Estrada, their gang rituals of tattoos, etc, that I believe could be passed onto Anna from a gang control unit after she inquires about the tattoos in the Polaroid. This would further cement her involvement in being a true detective. The tickets may have also been Anna’s find but, she had Huck look into it while she was engaged in some other aspect of the case, which could set him up as saying something along the lines of a “false lead”, which in turn forces her to harbour doubts about Huck because she knows there is something about the tickets that don’t add up.

I hope some any of this helps, if not and you’re gonna let this script sit for a while, that’s cool also. I really did enjoy the story and, I think Gabriel could have played a larger part with respect to why he would go to such lengths to ensure Lobo (the Wolf) would not make good on his words of hurting those closest to him. I believe Gabriel would have understood the complications of someone else claiming a major prize winning ticket and, might have gone to elaborate lengths to show the audience how a scam could work, by having inside information on how the system works. That might be a fun road to travel; a story within a story… murder and fraud wrapped in an enigma.

Best of luck!



Thanks so much for the read and the insights - they were very valuable and will certainly consider when I tackle this  again. Much thanks
Posted by: Gum, February 19th, 2017, 2:30pm; Reply: 42
Anytime, glad you could get something out of it. As well, sorry for being so succinct, lol. I had to write the post with the entire script fresh in mind before I forgot what I wanted to say. There was more I thought about afterwards but, you seem to have your hands full with feedback from previous posts, so, I’ll leave it be for now. Do let me know if you post another version though, till then… all the best.
Posted by: eldave1, February 19th, 2017, 3:00pm; Reply: 43

Quoted from Gum
Anytime, glad you could get something out of it. As well, sorry for being so succinct, lol. I had to write the post with the entire script fresh in mind before I forgot what I wanted to say. There was more I thought about afterwards but, you seem to have your hands full with feedback from previous posts, so, I’ll leave it be for now. Do let me know if you post another version though, till then… all the best.


Will do - thanks again, mate
Posted by: FrankH, February 19th, 2017, 4:41pm; Reply: 44
Glad some of the feedback was helpful.

I got a thriller posted,  "Inconceivable Pain".
You had a quick look at it a few months ago.
A revised version was posted recently.
Would certainly appreciate your input.

Frank
Posted by: eldave1, February 19th, 2017, 6:21pm; Reply: 45

Quoted from FrankH
Glad some of the feedback was helpful.

I got a thriller posted,  "Inconceivable Pain".
You had a quick look at it a few months ago.
A revised version was posted recently.
Would certainly appreciate your input.

Frank


Very helpful.

I will check out the script and post on your thread.
Posted by: Patrick, February 24th, 2017, 9:07am; Reply: 46
Good story, good flow. A good read. Are you at the pitching stage yet?
Posted by: eldave1, February 24th, 2017, 6:14pm; Reply: 47

Quoted from Patrick
Good story, good flow. A good read. Are you at the pitching stage yet?


Thanks for the kind words, Patrick. I have sent out general queries
Posted by: Athenian, March 30th, 2017, 11:55pm; Reply: 48
Hey Dave,

Sorry for the huge delay in getting to this. I've read both the initial and the updated version, if that's any consolation. ;)

Overall, a much improved draft of a screenplay I already liked. The addition of Lobo raised the stakes for Gabriel and made his motive for murder more understandable. I also agree with the introduction of your main character (Anna) early in the story instead of p.15.  Here are a few notes:

1) p.14

Perhaps Gabriel could ask about the security camera in a way that wouldn't arouse suspicion:


Quoted Text
GABRIEL
Did you know them?

KOREAN OWNER
No.

GABRIEL
Well, if you get curious you can always run the footage from the security camera.

KOREAN OWNER
Camera broken. Sold hundred tickets, anyway. No use.


Same goes for p.17. Gabriel makes those questions to Esperanza a little too directly, IMO.

2) p.18-19


Quoted Text
ESPERANZA
Gabriel. I think you made a
mistake. (...) Those are all my numbers.


I know she's old and naive, but even so wouldn't she normally suspect something at this point?


Quoted Text
ESPERANZA
Gabriel. I think you made a
mistake. Those are all my...

She frowns, troubled.

From behind her chair, Gabriel loops the belt around her neck and pulls it tight.


3) p. 21-22

Not sure if I'm missing something here, but how did Gabriel know about this "Varrio Nuevo Estrada" gang and their initials V-N-E (which even Anna ignored)? Also, had this gang done the curving thing before?

4) p. 90

Others have mentioned that your descriptions are a little too detailed at times. This is a good example:


Quoted Text
Double V hangs up the phone, stands and puts his left hand behind his back. A CLICK as the Guard cuffs it.

GUARD
Right hand.

Double V raises his right hand and shoots Pablo a salute before putting it behind his back. A CLICK as the Guard cuffs it, spins Double V around and escorts him away.


I'd just write:


Quoted Text
Double V hangs up the phone, shoots Pablo a salute. The guard cuffs him and escorts him away.


5) p. 106


Quoted Text
ANNA
I'm about to die. We've fucked each
other. Humor me.

Huck nods.

HUCK
You make a fair point.


I like this, but perhaps it would be more plausible if she made Huck confess while holding him at gunpoint.

Okay, overall, I think you did a very good job (plot, characters and everything), but I do feel you could have used Pablo more: He could initially seek revenge himself instead of cooperating with Anna. He could then be accused of Gabriel's murder. He could even be a potential love interest for Anna. Of course, his health condition wouldn't allow him to do much, but does he really need to be left crippled after that explosion? I don't think it's essential to the story.

Another nice and solid feature by you - good luck with it!

Manolis
Posted by: eldave1, March 31st, 2017, 4:04pm; Reply: 49

Quoted Text
Hey Dave,

Sorry for the huge delay in getting to this. I've read both the initial and the updated version, if that's any consolation. ;)


Thanks, friend - that is very generous of you - appreciated.


Quoted Text
1) p.14

Perhaps Gabriel could ask about the security camera in a way that wouldn't arouse suspicion:


I get your point - but think will leave as is. Gabriel is not supposed to be  a very clever guy - so I think it natural for him to stumble here.

Quoted Text

2) p.18-19

I know she's old and naive, but even so wouldn't she normally suspect something at this point?


Perhaps - I'll give the scene another look.


Quoted Text
3) p. 21-22

Not sure if I'm missing something here, but how did Gabriel know about this "Varrio Nuevo Estrada" gang and their initials V-N-E (which even Anna ignored)? Also, had this gang done the curving thing before?


Thought it would be implied from him living in the area (I actually am very familiar with the area and the local gang symbols are everywhere (graffiti et al) - but I think you may be the third person now that found this to be an issue - so it is worth looking at - maybe a scene where they are present somewhere (e.g., graffiti or something) before the deed is done. Thanks.


Quoted Text
4) p. 90

Others have mentioned that your descriptions are a little too detailed at times. This is a good example:

I'd just write:
Double V hangs up the phone, shoots Pablo a salute. The guard cuffs him and escorts him away.


Like what you did there - cool. Going to steal it.


Quoted Text
5) p. 106

I like this, but perhaps it would be more plausible if she made Huck confess while holding him at gunpoint.


I thought about that and even had a version of it at one time - my problem with it was the logic of him confessing when he knows its going to be used against him - he's only confessing now because he think Anna is going to be dead and gone.


Quoted Text
Okay, overall, I think you did a very good job (plot, characters and everything), but I do feel you could have used Pablo more: He could initially seek revenge himself instead of cooperating with Anna. He could then be accused of Gabriel's murder. He could even be a potential love interest for Anna. Of course, his health condition wouldn't allow him to do much, but does he really need to be left crippled after that explosion? I don't think it's essential to the story.


So interesting you should mention this - the original story had Pablo is the Protag and Anna and Huck simple as the B story. He (Pablo) becomes a vigilante after returning home due to his frustration with no one finding the killer. I will revisit that for sure if I can get any nibble on what I have now.


Quoted Text
Another nice and solid feature by you - good luck with it!

Manolis


Thanks' again, Manolis - I really appreciate your time and effort on the read. Very helpful.
Posted by: eldave1, November 28th, 2020, 3:56pm; Reply: 50
Finally got around to a re-write on this - was able to shave 7 pages - hopefully, I did;t shave any good ones and add any bad ones.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, November 28th, 2020, 4:53pm; Reply: 51
I liked that script!  :)
Posted by: eldave1, November 28th, 2020, 4:56pm; Reply: 52

Quoted from Grandma Bear
I liked that script!  :)


Thanks!
Posted by: FrankH, December 11th, 2020, 9:57pm; Reply: 53
Hey Dave,

Agree with Grandma Bear, I also liked this script.

Good luck.

Frank
Posted by: eldave1, December 12th, 2020, 3:40pm; Reply: 54

Quoted from FrankH
Hey Dave,

Agree with Grandma Bear, I also liked this script.

Good luck.

Frank


Th, buddy.
Posted by: Don, September 6th, 2021, 2:20pm; Reply: 55
Optioned.

Don
Posted by: Yuvraj, September 6th, 2021, 2:26pm; Reply: 56
Kudos yo!!!
Posted by: Zack, September 6th, 2021, 2:48pm; Reply: 57
Congratulations,  Dave! That's awesome! :)
Posted by: eldave1, September 6th, 2021, 3:12pm; Reply: 58
Thanks guys
Posted by: Warren, September 6th, 2021, 4:50pm; Reply: 59
Fantastic news, Dave!
Posted by: eldave1, September 6th, 2021, 4:55pm; Reply: 60

Quoted from Warren
Fantastic news, Dave!


Thanks, Warren - it really is we'll see. Working with a legit guy, but you know how funding and development goes. We'll see.
Posted by: LC, September 6th, 2021, 5:01pm; Reply: 61
Beaudy! Very happy for you, Dave.

I bet someone's doing the happy dance.
Posted by: khamanna, September 6th, 2021, 5:15pm; Reply: 62
Oh nice, Dave!
Will be waiting for it!)
Posted by: Grandma Bear, September 6th, 2021, 5:15pm; Reply: 63
Awesome news, Dave!!! 8)8)8)8)8)
Posted by: Warren, September 6th, 2021, 5:40pm; Reply: 64

Quoted from eldave1


Thanks, Warren - it really is we'll see. Working with a legit guy, but you know how funding and development goes. We'll see.


For sure, but I feel like your time has come to have a massive win, it's been on the cards for a while I think.
Posted by: SAC, September 6th, 2021, 5:46pm; Reply: 65
Awesome Dave. I liked this one a ton!
Posted by: eldave1, September 6th, 2021, 6:14pm; Reply: 66
Thanks all :)
Posted by: Robert Timsah, September 7th, 2021, 5:36pm; Reply: 67
Great to hear and I hope it goes the distance.
Posted by: eldave1, September 7th, 2021, 5:39pm; Reply: 68

Quoted from Robert Timsah
Great to hear and I hope it goes the distance.


Gracias!
Posted by: Gum, September 7th, 2021, 8:53pm; Reply: 69
Oh man...

Saw the thread, thinking “optioned, okay… this script must be good, I’ll give it a read”: Removed by Author. Bummer, now I can’t read it.

Start scrolling through thread to see what it was about via comments, get about half-way through and give myself a stern facepalm when I see my own Avatar; not only have I read it… I gave you feedback on it almost 5 years ago!

Shit, where does the time fly when you’re losing your mind, lol. I do remember it now (before the rewrites), a ‘whodunnit’, t’was definitely a good read, congrats, Dave!

5 years since the first cut to an option... patience is definitely a noble advantage in this game.
Posted by: eldave1, September 7th, 2021, 8:56pm; Reply: 70

Quoted from Gum
Oh man...

Saw the thread, thinking “optioned, okay… this script must be good, I’ll give it a read”: Removed by Author. Bummer, now I can’t read it.

Start scrolling through thread to see what it was about via comments, get about half-way through and give myself a stern facepalm when I see my own Avatar; not only have I read it… I gave you feedback on it almost 5 years ago!

Shit, where does the time fly when you’re losing your mind, lol. I do remember it now (before the rewrites), a ‘whodunnit’, t’was definitely a good read, congrats, Dave!

5 years since the first cut to an option... patience is definitely a noble advantage in this game.


Thanks,  buddy. Appreciate it
Posted by: Mr. Blonde, September 7th, 2021, 9:25pm; Reply: 71
Big congrats on the options, Dave. Fingers crossed for that sale. =)
Posted by: eldave1, September 7th, 2021, 10:48pm; Reply: 72

Quoted from Mr. Blonde
Big congrats on the options, Dave. Fingers crossed for that sale. =)


Thanks, buddy
Posted by: SAC, September 8th, 2021, 7:10am; Reply: 73
Dave —

Curious. How much of this can you talk about at the moment? You said it was optioned by someone reputable — someone or a prodco we might have heard of? How did they actually find the script — on here or by way of queries? Stuff like that. Totally get it if you can’t give many details, not looking to let any cats out of the bag or anything.
Posted by: eldave1, September 8th, 2021, 11:03am; Reply: 74

Quoted from SAC
Dave —

Curious. How much of this can you talk about at the moment? You said it was optioned by someone reputable — someone or a prodco we might have heard of? How did they actually find the script — on here or by way of queries? Stuff like that. Totally get it if you can’t give many details, not looking to let any cats out of the bag or anything.


Here are the details I feel comfortable sharing.

By reputable - I didn't mean big or established. per se. It is optioned with a director/producer who has predominately done shorts and behind-the-scenes stuff. The difference being he has some level of access to the industry (actors, editors, etc) and more importantly - he has the funds needed to complete a feature film. So, all I need is for his passion to hold up.

The option period is a bit longer than I would normally go on a feature (18 months). I don't want to go into too many details, but I am happy with the option price. On the actual purchase, I have negotiated my choice of either a flat amount or 5% of the Producer Pool. Which way to go to be determined by me at the time of final purchase.

The found the script on my website after Googling me when researching competition placements.




Posted by: SAC, September 8th, 2021, 11:55am; Reply: 75
Nice.

Can you explain producer pool?
Posted by: eldave1, September 8th, 2021, 1:58pm; Reply: 76
Hard to explain - but I will try:

Typically, the first people to be paid from the Gross Box Office are the investors and distributors.  After that, the remaining proceeds go to various pools where there is agreed-upon percent share. These pools include Producers,  Directors, sometimes actors and sometimes writers.

The pools are made up of all the money left after the equity investors and distributors have been reimbursed for their costs. These players all have an agreed upon cut percentage of those monies.

The language in the contract may look something like:

The Production Company agrees that the Writer shall receive an amount equal to X% of the Production Company’s share of net profits received by the Production Company, but in no case less than $FIXED DOLLAR AMOUNT.

The writer and production company recognize that ‘share of net profits’ refers to the revenue accumulated in the ‘producers pool’. In essence, the writer will be paid in accordance with the same method and process used to compensate other members in the producer’s pool other than that the writer’s percentage is specifically X%.


Basically - it is a pool of money created and distributed before arriving at a Net Profit for the film.  I believe it is a mistake for a writer to sign an agreement when they are merely getting a percent of NET PROFIT because due to a lot of accounting shenigans - that often is zero. The type of language (above) better ensures that the writer gets paid when the producer gets paid. It is a way of aligning your financial interests with the Producers.

Hope that makes sense.




Posted by: SAC, September 8th, 2021, 2:03pm; Reply: 77
Yes, thanks.
Posted by: FrankH, November 14th, 2021, 8:26pm; Reply: 78
Hey Dave,

I liked this script.

Congrats and best of luck to you.

Frank
Posted by: eldave1, November 14th, 2021, 8:28pm; Reply: 79

Quoted from FrankH
Hey Dave,

I liked this script.

Congrats and best of luck to you.

Frank


Thanks,  mate
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