I might be going crazy but I swear I saw someone mention the key elements of effective prose style in a recent thread. Or something like that. Now I can't find it anymore.

I did some google searches and realized there's all this stuff I've never really studied. Actually, I've never really studied anything related to the nuts and bolts of writing. Some of which seems useful to any kind of writing including screenwriting. So I'd love to know more.  

Anyone know any good resources, IE, books or good free websites on the subject? I already found writelab.com, which has a lot of good stuff. Hopefully people know what I'm talking about. I swear it was in the thread about modifiers/ing words. Am I going insane?

William Zinsser. On Writing Well: An Informal Guide to Writing Nonfiction

William Strunk Jr. and E. B. White, The Elements of Style

Writing tools Roy Peter Clark

Quoted from MarkItZero I might be going crazy but I swear I saw someone mention the key elements of effective prose style in a recent thread. Or something like that. Now I can't find it anymore. I did some google searches and realized there's all this stuff I've never really studied. Actually, I've never really studied anything related to the nuts and bolts of writing. Some of which seems useful to any kind of writing including screenwriting. So I'd love to know more.   Anyone know any good resources, IE, books or good free websites on the subject? I already found writelab.com, which has a lot of good stuff. Hopefully people know what I'm talking about. I swear it was in the thread about modifiers/ing words. Am I going insane?

janet posted something on Facebook?

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films William Zinsser. On Writing Well: An Informal Guide to Writing Nonfiction William Strunk Jr. and E. B. White, The Elements of Style Writing tools Roy Peter Clark

Thank you! Now I just need to learn basic grammar and I'll be all set.

Quoted from Reef Dreamer janet posted something on Facebook?

No, it was a very short post from someone on the forums. Might have been deleted. Or I'm going insane but the voices tell me otherwise.

Start with Aristotle poetics and go from there.

Quoted from MarkItZero Thank you! Now I just need to learn basic grammar and I'll be all set. No, it was a very short post from someone on the forums. Might have been deleted. Or I'm going insane but the voices tell me otherwise.

I think it was in the:

modifiers/ing words

Thread. I recall post about it there - but just checked and seem to be gone.  

Quoted from Female Gaze Start with Aristotle poetics and go from there.

I'm looking for something that doesn't induce instant narcolepsy.

Quoted from eldave1 I think it was in the: modifiers/ing words Thread. I recall post about it there - but just checked and seem to be gone.

Only two possible explanations: government conspiracy or Kardashians.

Quoted from MarkItZero Only two possible explanations: government conspiracy or Kardashians.

I'd lean more towards Kardashians or at a minimun - Kanye

Quoted from MarkItZero I'm looking for something that doesn't induce instant narcolepsy. Only two possible explanations: government conspiracy or Kardashians.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir here but it does help. It's the basics of all 'Drama'. But I'm assuming you've read that so maybe just start with classic prose and go from there...sorry I'm a theatre girl...I just know what I know  :P

It Was the Best of Prose, It Was the Worst of Prose

Sin and Syntax

Strunk and White(though it's old and quite a few things have proven to be wrong)

Stephen King's on Writing

Sense and Style by Pinker

Those are off the top of my head. I've read other good ones too.

Prose style instruction suffers from the some of the same problems as screen, namely the turning of rules of thumb into rules. An example is forcing every passive sentence to be converted to active. Taken in isolation, the active sentence is usually better, but in the context of a paragraph, sometimes the passive is the best choice, because sometimes this conversion changes the POV character, or changes the emphasis. Just to name some reasons.

Anyway, I applaud your effort in trying to dig into prose style!

Quoted from Female Gaze Hey, you're preaching to the choir here but it does help. It's the basics of all 'Drama'. But I'm assuming you've read that so maybe just start with classic prose and go from there...sorry I'm a theatre girl...I just know what I know

I was just being silly. Don't think I have read it though. Not sure I could get through it now. I wish I could. Feel like I missed the boat on all that stuff. I should've been an English major. I should've done anything other than just drink a lot in college. Oh well, can't dwell on the past. What's a good way to forget the past... oh, right, beer!

Quoted from leitskev Anyway, I applaud your effort in trying to dig into prose style!

I'm not exactly trying to get into prose writing. I guess I don't really know what I'm looking for lol. Anything that'll help me become a better screenwriter. You guys have given me a lot of cool stuff to check out though. So thanks everyone!

Mark - was it this thread?

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1482840484/s-14/highlight-/#num14

Anthony -- Yep, pretty sure that's the one.

I hear you Mark. I can say that several people think my screenwriting improved once I spent time doing prose. No, that doesn't mean novelistic writing.

I think a lot of writers on the cusp of breaking in are writing both screen and prose. I mean you can take a feature length script and then easily write it as a novella and self publish it.

One other thing:

Like Stephen King said: "If you ain't got time to read, you ain't got time to write".


The best writers are voracious readers.

There's a reason some writers sell so well, and are considered the best in their respective fields.

Whichever genre you're working in, it can't hurt to devour the best short stories, novels and whatever else to see how the authors use words to create specific effects.

I think it's crucial to have an investigative spirit, Mark. That's the best way to learn the most effective writing styles. And it's always an ongoing process. It's not a matter of mastering a list of simple rules, because there is no way rules can cover every situation, whether in prose or screen.

The passive sentence is a great example. You can read a book that demonstrates why the active sentence is preferable, and read the examples provided and end up so convinced that you decide to rid your work of every hint of a passive sentence. But if you keep an open mind you'll find that passive sentences exist for a reason, and there are situations they work better.

I do think reading these guidelines on prose is very helpful to screen though, as is writing prose. I think you can see evidence in the writing of most pro screenwriters that, at the very least, they read a lot of fiction, and likely they write prose too. They use their writing to create suspension. This is easier in prose, but it is also useful in screen.

I'd add or expand on Scar's piece to say that as screenwriters watching film and or TV should also be an important aspect of our learning, after all it's the medium our words will be expressed within (hopefully!)

Is a novel like a really long tweet?

Really though, I totally agree. I try to read as much as I can. Love to devour a good book just as much as a good screenplay. Read Under the Harrow recently and was blown away by how good it is. I need something that's a page-turner... that one I wouldn't have been able to put down if the building was burning down around me.

I think the one thing I've slacked on is actually watching movies (especially in theaters). I've barely seen anything on people's top 2016 movies lists. When I did go see Arrival my mind was racing with so many ideas I had to go straight home and write them all down. Nothing beats a good movie to get the creative juices flowing.

I'd second Writing Tools by Roy Peter Clark - my personal favourite.  Very accessible and well thought out.

I thought the 'incompetentwriter'  (as linked in the other thread) had some great tips too.

I've been thinking about seriously delving into prose -- novels, short stories, etc -- for some time now. Unfortunately, I have no idea where to begin and haven't yet mustered up the courage to just try. I don't even know if having written screenplays would come in handy. It really shouldn't bother me but I'm both intimidated and discouraged by the idea of having to learn a brand new skill from scratch when I'm *still* learning how to write screenplays after ten years of doing it.

I suppose the best place to start would be reading novels and short stories, which I've started doing regularly for the sheer pleasure of it. I'm currently reading two novels and two short-story books simultaneously with a third novel I plan to start after finishing one of the other two. My goal this year is to replace *at least* 20% of my time spent on social media with reading.

James, writing screenplays all these years will help you tremendously, because you should have a built in sense of how to structure story now. I started prose a couple years ago. Last year I joined a local writers group. These people had been writing for several years, in some cases many. But they didn't have the sense of story you need: how to build an intriguing plot. We get that writing features.

Start by just converting your features to prose...or even shorts. I converted several of my features.

The first hurdle was mastering POV. In a movie, the POV is really the camera. In prose you really don't want to jump around.

Writing in first person might be an easy way to avoid that confusion. I have stuck to third person limited, or close third person as some call it. With that we are in one character's head for a given chapter, and only that character's head. That limits what you can describe, which can be a challenge in converting scripts to prose. You'll see what I mean when you try it. But close POV writing has the advantage of drawing the reader closer to the character. Also, as a limited narrator, it's easier to create suspense...well, sometimes easier.

I would start by just converting one. Then maybe read some books on prose style. And go on to the next one. Just like screenwriting, prose has to be practiced. Good luck!

I've written some stuff and converted into a screenplay, never the opposite.

I've done all three. And they are all major monsters on their own.  But, I have found screenwriting to be the biggest one.

For 'stage' it is all about overwriting. You have to write what can't be seen. So switching from that mechanic to screen is a huge chore.

For lit. It's all about giving just enough. It requires a delicate balance between the two forms. When you write in first-person you are limited to just one character and that requires you find more creative ways to show the other characters personality.

Third-person is easier but it can also land you in a trap of getting carried away with the details.

Prose is far more freeing to me at times because you can write however you like.

There is so much room for error in writing literature. Regardless of the tense you're using, proper usage of punctuation and shit like that can get tedious.

Yeah, but the confines are less severe, at least to me they are.

I also think writing lit for pleasure makes everything so much better. It's so organic in a multitude of ways.

Writing a script always has the idea to sale looming over the writers head.  

I used to write just for pure pleasure and it flowed out of me no problem. Writing a script causes instant tension.

Besides, basic grammar should just be a given for any writer.

Quoted from Female Gaze Yeah, but the confines are less severe, at least to me they are. I also think writing lit for pleasure makes everything so much better. It's so organic in a multitude of ways. Writing a script always has the idea to sale looming over the writers head.   I used to write just for pure pleasure and it flowed out of me no problem. Writing a script causes instant tension. Besides, basic grammar should just be a given for any writer.

It should be a given, yes, but typically for those first run-through drafts, you aren't worried about the use of a hyphen vs a colon, or something similar. The tedious part is going back and editing these little details...that's what I meant. There is a lot more "meat" to sift though.

The best thing about writing literature is that you aren't constrained to writing for a screen. You could write the most absurd shit and as long as the imagination of the reader can cope, you're good.

Agree.

I have a writing partner who hates writing but loves to edit and that's our relationship lol

On the grammar topic... don't publishers have copy editors? LOL

Quoted from leitskev James, writing screenplays all these years will help you tremendously, because you should have a built in sense of how to structure story now. I started prose a couple years ago. Last year I joined a local writers group. These people had been writing for several years, in some cases many. But they didn't have the sense of story you need: how to build an intriguing plot. We get that writing features. Start by just converting your features to prose...or even shorts. I converted several of my features. The first hurdle was mastering POV. In a movie, the POV is really the camera. In prose you really don't want to jump around. Writing in first person might be an easy way to avoid that confusion. I have stuck to third person limited, or close third person as some call it. With that we are in one character's head for a given chapter, and only that character's head. That limits what you can describe, which can be a challenge in converting scripts to prose. You'll see what I mean when you try it. But close POV writing has the advantage of drawing the reader closer to the character. Also, as a limited narrator, it's easier to create suspense...well, sometimes easier. I would start by just converting one. Then maybe read some books on prose style. And go on to the next one. Just like screenwriting, prose has to be practiced. Good luck!

Never considered adapting any of my features to prose. Not particularly interested. My best feature, i.e. most positively received by the people who matter, I've rewritten so many times, I've had enough/it's time to move on. Some of the others, I'd be perfectly happy never to revisit again. Generally speaking, I think I'd serve myself best as an evolving writer to move onto new things.

Shorts on the other hand, I would consider adapting. A lot of mine are centered around loose ideas with room to grow, which I'd think makes them well-suited for prose. I almost don't consider them as films at all but rather short stories in film format. I don't look at my features the same way at all.

Anyway, appreciate the response. It's genuinely encouraging to think that while I haven't been writing prose for ten years, I have been writing stories. At the same time, I simply don't know as much about the world of literature as I feel I should (or would like to) if I'm to take a crack at it (not important to everyone, but I like to be knowledgeable about the medium I work in). Guess you gotta start somewhere.

Take a look at the writing of Blake Couch. This book seems to be his latest and best:

https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Matter-Novel-Blake-Crouch-ebook/dp/B0180T0IUY/ref=la_B001H6U8X0_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483641874&sr=1-1

You can read the first chapters for free.

His style is very similar to screen, I think. He also wrote Wayward Pines, which became a series. It's not a literary style, it's designed to be fast paced.

I think the advent of kindle is affecting prose style too, because the formatting is different. People reading on a kindle or a tablet or phone want to breeze through scripts.

Yeah, I don't think your time writing screenplays would be a waste at all. Most books I enjoy read like a screenplay. Perhaps that means I don't enjoy great literature though. Occasionally I try to get through a John Banville novel or something like that because the writing is so amazing... but it feels like work.

The books I really enjoy have the same qualities as screenplays - gripping pace, characters that pop off the page, and crisp visuals.

I can't really think off the top of my head of books that had very sparse styles. Probably all of the stuff I've read recently and liked (not necessarily new books):

Under the Harrow
City of Thieves
The Night Manager
Special Topics in Calamity Physics
Station Eleven
In the Woods

Quoted from leitskev Take a look at the writing of Blake Couch. This book seems to be his latest and best: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Matter-Novel-Blake-Crouch-ebook/dp/B0180T0IUY/ref=la_B001H6U8X0_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483641874&sr=1-1 You can read the first chapters for free. His style is very similar to screen, I think. He also wrote Wayward Pines, which became a series. It's not a literary style, it's designed to be fast paced. I think the advent of kindle is affecting prose style too, because the formatting is different. People reading on a kindle or a tablet or phone want to breeze through scripts.

Doesn't seem quite like my style, but given that it's free, I'll take a look. That said, I'm not necessarily interested in fast-paced prose. I'm not even that interested in fast-paced scripts, but that's another story. In short, I'm not looking for methods of modeling literary prose after screenwriting; it's a completely different medium, so I'd like to explore what new opportunities I can within it.