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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board  /  January 2018 Two Week Challenge  /  Signal Fire - 2WC
Posted by: Don, January 27th, 2018, 10:05am
Signal Fire by Neil Percival Young - Short, Adventure - How will anyone find their way in a brave new world? 13 pages - pdf, format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

Posted by: SAC, January 27th, 2018, 10:41am; Reply: 1
Writer,

Some awkward, or just wrong, formatting regarding your dialogue. I got what you were going for, but others may not. Your choice of names threw me a bit, and I had to keep reading to remember that Suds was a girl. Then later, you have a girl named Sal - also leading to more confusion. That said, I have no clue what this story is about. Something about Windows/computers? Whatever it is, it’s lost on me. I just had no idea what this was all leading up to, and the end didn’t tell me either. Sorry I have nothing more positive to say. But, good job on getting an entry in. This was a tough challenge.

Steve
Posted by: Stumpzian, January 27th, 2018, 11:16am; Reply: 2
I read this one first only because it had a comment already.

I think this is excellent. Evocative, understated, very well done in general.  I think you forgot to introduce Sal, even though it's clear who she is.
I look forward to coming back to this for a second read, and I may comment further.
Henry

Next day: Okay,  I have read this a second time and still like it very much. This a small story set after some non-specific societal collapse. There are hints of what it might have been, which, to me, is sufficient.
I've read subsequent comments after my first post that mention various problems -- formatting and so on -- and I don't disagree. All are fixable.
What stands out are the (1) dialogue, (2) atmosphere of fear and sadness, and (3) intriguing elements (evens/odds, worship of "great" ideas, God, etc.).
There's much to appreciate here.
Posted by: Talldave, January 27th, 2018, 12:29pm; Reply: 3
Quick commentary, then I’m giving you my messy notes given in order of how it is read. Love it, got it, loved it, very happy with this first read. Wasn’t perfect, but a rewrite or two and you got a really nice script. Characters, story, themes, all pretty right on. Kudos. Messy notes time. Some are just me rewriting part of a sentence the way I would like it to sound, and others are commentary. Good luck.

So aged and black with grease you can barely tell

wiry and (find an easier word to imagine than slight)

Faded neon ski jacket(once-colored is a kind of drawn out)

Don’t realize suds is talking to hen right away, maybe add in line of action to clarify

Deepening evening is awkward phrasing. I know what it means, but two -ing endings in a row is funny to read

What’s suds provoking with her stare?

Long ways away I believe sounds better than way away

Belly, breasts, provocative- I like the attempt at short writing big impact, but I don’t think this was a good place for it.

And decides to tell the story- we know hen decided to tell the story because he is telling the story.

Suds I’m going to fuck you up comment came a little late,

Blackness doesn’t sound right here

Scrabble??

Secret house key, not house secret key

Last two lines of dialogue, redo it.
Posted by: JEStaats, January 27th, 2018, 1:13pm; Reply: 4
Interesting read but very difficult to follow. I know people frown on parenthetical use but it would come in handy when there are multiple people having a conversation and side-bar comments. I did like your vision of this dismal future and the message of our reliance on technology but it would have been nice to have some indication of what triggered the course of history.

Perhaps I need to read it again to see why they did what they did at the end. Good job getting this done and submitted.
Posted by: DarrenJamesSeeley, January 27th, 2018, 11:33pm; Reply: 5
The opening line isn't needed.The line that follows it is better." The air is thick as eater"? What's that supposed to mean? Is it foggy? Also, evening is in the slug, so we already know it's evening.

I know Hen's got a lot of 'xplainin' to do, but the space breaks look odd.

Some characters dialog is kind of tough to follow at times, at least when they aren't dropping f bombs, but it doesn't matter because....

I' don't get it.
Sorry.
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), January 28th, 2018, 1:15am; Reply: 6
OK, as I've said on another entry, when you intro a character or characters, whether by name or just "whatever", it should be CAPPED.

So...we have literally half a page describing 3 characters passing a van in a ditch - TOO MUCH!

Page 2 - dialogue is so vague, there's literally no way to know what's going on...if anything.  New Slug of "HILLSIDE" - OK, we know the setting is a "hillside" - why would you want to repeat that 6 words into the first line? "deepening evening" - WTF?

Next Slug is the same as the prior, but now you use "NIGHT".  Doesn't read well and can be done much more effectively.

Page 4 - whenever you use a name or anything used as a name in dialogue, it needs to be offset with a comma.

The double/quadruple dialogue doesn't work as written.

You say, "They leave the hilltop." - meaning, they exit the scene you set, yet you have 2 more action lines and 3 lines of dialogue.

"is sat" - Really?  Oh man...so bad!!!

Skimming now, as I have no clue what's going on or why.

Page 9 - here we go again - you say Suds leaves the room, and then in the same passage, she's doing something in the room.

And...again, the same setting in a new Slug, in a new time - this doesn't transfer well to film or read well at all as written.

No clue whatsoever what this about or what went on.  No clue what event didn't take place.

Writing is OK, but lots of issues. Dialogue is "unique", but no clue why or what it's supposed to show.

Not for me at all, sorry to say.
Posted by: ChrisBodily, January 28th, 2018, 4:47am; Reply: 7
First of all, I'm a big fan. It's too bad your Pono thing fizzled out.


Quoted Text
EXT.  ENGLISH COUNTRYSIDE - EVENING


The commonly accepted time indicators are DAY and NIGHT. Sometimes DUSK or DAWN, if you must.


Quoted Text
Dusk on a summer's evening. The light is polarised, the air is thick as water and quiet.


A Brit writer. Nice! I hope you can figure out how to film this.

"Undulating." Learned a new word.


Quoted Text
HEN is a man in his forties, wearing clothes so aged and grease-blackened it barely tells they were once jeans and a pullover.


Very awkwardly written. You could try:


Quoted Text
[...] it barely shows that they were once jeans and a pullover.


That being said, the paragraph would still be too busy, sorry to say. Also, "were once" this and that... Everything is happening now, not in the past or in the future. Use present tense, active voice.


Quoted Text
It’s been there a long time


This in in the past, and therefore, unfilmable, unless you want to show flashbacks.


Quoted Text
part reclaimed by the elements, covered in weeds and moss.


That whole sentence reads awkward.


Quoted Text
Ee is old.


Who's Ee? "He," by any chance? Cockney dialect?


Quoted Text
And he's from [the] city.


Or does she just talk like that?


Quoted Text
Why's he still alive?


God, he's not THAT old! LOL! If he were 120, then you'd have a valid argument.


Quoted Text
There’s a large fire pit, a stack of wood, rusting sheets of corrugated iron, and a telegraph post.


A little too busy? Important set pieces or incidental set dressing?


Quoted Text
Far on the horizon, another fire burns on a distant hill. Obscure movements show that distant figures are pulling corrugated iron to block their fire, keeping it open on the facing side and the opposite side, sending the signal on.


A lot of these action lines are busy, overwritten and slow down the pace. I'm getting a little bored, to be honest.

P3


Quoted Text
That’s all ee can hope.


Oh, I see. Cockney dialect.


Quoted Text
That’s not wankers[,] Suds. That’s cooperation



Quoted Text
We’ll be seen, then what[?]


Or is this a rhetorical question?


Quoted Text
Fucking dead bitch. You don’t even exist, you dead bitch. Waste of fucking time.


Huh? Who's dead? Is she drunk?


Quoted Text
A small isolated two-up two-down cottage.


What does that even mean?


Quoted Text
Suds is sat in a rocking chair knitting something, on the edge of the darkness.


Iffy grammar and passive voice.

End of page four and no clue what the event is. If it doesn't pick up by page five, I'm baling.

P7


Quoted Text
Brutal and organised.

It’s Adam’s Principle all over again. You know that?


Why is this dialogue separated?

And again. I know you're trying to divide it into clean paragraphs, but it doesn't work for dialogue. Separate each paragraph with action or another character cutting in.

P8


Quoted Text
There’s something he can’t say, and he’s trying to make Hen understand that.


Borderline unfilmable.


Quoted Text
Calm self.


Reads awkward.


Quoted Text
Bisto creeps down the wooden staircase. Every step risks a
creak.


Ends in an orphan. Try to minimize/avoid these.


Quoted Text
Hello, bitch.


Not my favorite. I don't get it at all. What was the event? Something to do with computers? Y2K? I'm lost. Sorry. Congrats on entering, though.
Posted by: khamanna, January 28th, 2018, 9:19am; Reply: 8
Hi.

Some of it is great. Suds lines - absolutely all of it is so money, really great stuff. And I loved Sud, the way she treats Bisto and Hen.

Didn't get what happened, how Sal managed to find Hen and not sure what happened at the end. Did they kill Sal and spared Hen? What does "Love...?" means at the end?

And didn't get the event that led up to it. The crash of 2000? Don't buy it would have led up to this if I'm correct about it. You could have told us in the log.
Posted by: Stumpzian, January 28th, 2018, 1:28pm; Reply: 9
I've amended my original comment above.
Posted by: LC, January 28th, 2018, 7:24pm; Reply: 10
I think this challenge runs the risk of big world stories that can become less involving. And the parameters of the challenge mean not all stories will translate well to the screen. This one is self contained enough though, that it possibly could, as it's a smaller more personal plight, and character driven.

I like it. You've imbued it with personality and these three characters are clearly on the run from something.

That said, I was in the dark re the specific God/religion v technology millenium event that did/didn't occur.

For sure this needs another draft of two, and a bit more in terms of story/threat, goal - where are they running to/what is the end goal? but you've evoked nicely a certain atmosphere and done well with character voice.

**
To reviewers who comment on words used or terms of reference they're not familiar with, etc., please consult Google or some other search engine first: 'scrabble' is not just a word game, it's a verb. A 'two up, two down'  is a common form of Brit house design.

We're writers and we come from all corners of the globe. Reading different styles, word usages, character dialogue
from other parts of the world etc ., is a lot of the joy of reading and writing. Don't assume the writer is a git and has it wrong.

Just one note to the writer though: I'd personally save: 'is sat' for character dialogue rather than use it in description. Jmho.

Good job.


Posted by: MarkRenshaw, January 29th, 2018, 10:09am; Reply: 11
Writing notes as I'm reading.

Logline needs more. Why is this a brave new world?

A nice opening scene. A bit prosey but that's just my own tastes.

Watch out for parenthiticals. They should be rarer than a rare thing. The dialogue literally should speak for itself, and it does in your case, no need to tell the actor how to deliver it.

Auto Continues do annoy me. I know Final Draft defaults them on but you can turn them off in the options.

Clever trick turning the fire into a beacon. I'd be interested in where you got that idea from!

This is a fascinating dystopian landscape you have here. I don't know what has happened (or not) in this timeline but you are painting a vivid bleak picture. Page 7 and 8 uses a long conversation which feels too on the nose to try and explain it, but it doesn't work as well as the action scenes before it. I'd suggest continuing with the action and just let the audience guess for themselves.

Nice tense moments in the house which leads to Sal's arrival and then there's some sort of stand off and I lost it a bit at the end, wasn't quite sure what was happening or why.

Overall a very decent effort which just seemed to drift off at the end.


I have to say and I'm going to say this for every script in this challenge (so I'm basically cut and pasting this last bit into all of them lol) that well done on entering! This was creatively an extremely challenging outline, one in which quite a few didn't even attempt or dropped out of. To have a completed script in the running deserves a pat on the back and a collective high-five!

-Mark
Posted by: DanC, January 30th, 2018, 2:06am; Reply: 12
Okay, I'm confused.

What event never happened?  And what is going on?  I mean, I have no clue.  

SPOILERS

Is this like a Children of the Corn thing where some crazy god-statue kills people?  

I don't know what or why anything happened.  I hope the writer does a second attempt at this.

It was a good suspenseful story.  

I hated the names.  Perhaps you can fix those, especially Hen.  And why did they take new names?  Even in the Walking Dead, they still keep their names (for the most part).

Good job entering.  Pretty solid, just need to clean up and make it much clearer.

Dan
Posted by: MarkRenshaw, January 30th, 2018, 3:34am; Reply: 13

Quoted from DanC
Okay, I'm confused.

I hated the names.  Perhaps you can fix those, especially Hen.  And why did they take new names?  Even in the Walking Dead, they still keep their names (for the most part).

Dan


I kinda picked up on the names as well and I think it's quite clever. Normal names seems to have been lost (or banned) with whatever tragedy befell this Earth. Hen explains his name was Michael but now it is Hen because he likes eggs. Bisto and Suds seem a bit more savage because they grew up after this event. I believe they chose objects they found as names. Bisto is the name of a stock (gravy) mixture in the UK and Suds is obviously from some soap or detergent box.

I do like it, it is different and paints a vivid picture, even if I don't know what event did or didn't occur.


Posted by: Stumpzian, January 30th, 2018, 7:39am; Reply: 14
I'm with Mark on the names. Very inventive.
Posted by: Dreamscale (Guest), January 30th, 2018, 9:09am; Reply: 15

Quoted from Stumpzian
I'm with Mark on the names. Very inventive.


I'm on the other side of the coin here, as I literally hated these names, but being American, I had no clue what Bisto was, have never used the word suds before, and don't think about hens when I eat eggs.

Posted by: Stumpzian, January 30th, 2018, 9:28am; Reply: 16

Quoted from Dreamscale


I'm on the other side of the coin here, as I literally hated these names, but being American, I had no clue what Bisto was, have never used the word suds before, and don't think about hens when I eat eggs.



;D ;D
Posted by: Scar Tissue Films, January 30th, 2018, 11:23am; Reply: 17
The story was inventive and the tone, in particular, was very evocative.

I didn't fully understand what was going on, so it's hard to give an opinion on the subjective quality of the script.


I thought perhaps that the Church had somehow used computers to establish a kind of literal omnipresence..watching everyone, which is a nice idea, but that doesn't explain anything else...like why Christian names would be gone or why one of the characters called the Church speaker a dead bitch.

That seems kind of internally inconsistent. The speakers respond to live action, suggesting either living people watching, or more likely computerised automation...but then if they were never living...why would it be dead?

This kind of internal inconsistency kept me from understanding it.

Ultimately the whole story comes down to this:

Do not fight your brethren,
friends, if the battle is unequal.
If odds are unequal - one man upon
two - God frowns because the will
of men decides fate and this should
not be.
Only when odds are even - then fate
is in the hands of God. For only He
should decide the outcome in the
battle between brethren.



It's coming from the "Church", but isn't Christian theology in any way, which is love your brother, not kill him, even if the sides are equal.

It goes more back to Teutonic ideas of Trial by Combat, which is interesting, but I don't see what its point is.

The fact that it's an invented theology kind of undermines any point to the story, for me. It's an invented world, with an invented ideology that isn't relevant to audiences.

Ultimately all you can take away is that killing people, even if there are just as many of them as you, is bad....which I think everyone agrees with and I don't think any extant ideology or theology propounds, so it all seemed redundant.

A professional story-teller would have a point that strongly resonates with modern audiences, regardless of how different the presented Universe is.


It is a great effort, though. The tone was really good.

Maybe when I understand what it was you were trying to get across, I'll have more to say.

Rick
Posted by: MarkItZero, January 31st, 2018, 12:03am; Reply: 18
That was impressive. Really good dialogue. Honestly, not knowing what was going on kind of added to the tension for me. It compounded the paranoia/confusion/mistrust in the group.

But if there's one thing needs to be absolutely clear it's the rule of fighting with even odds. I know it's mentioned on the speaker but so is a lot of other dense Church-speak that had my eyes glazing over a bit. I'd find some way to show this rule crystal clear at the start of the script.

Maybe it's spray-painted in huge letters on a wall: Even Odds - God's Way - Kill 'em all!
Posted by: Spqr, February 1st, 2018, 3:21pm; Reply: 19
Good descriptions and dialogue is good. I don’t know what  dialect of englis Suds was speaking, but I found it convincing.  I assume Suds’ psychotic rantings represents most of the other citizens’ attitudes. Compared to her, Bisto and Hen are boring.

This society’s religion frowns upon killing, but only when the odds are uneven. So by setting the signal fire to attract Hen’s partner, all Bisto was doing was ensuring Hen and Sal’s eventual death. So crazy Suds is actually the kind one because she was opposed to the signal fire?

There’s more to Suds than is at first apparent. Of course, she’s also a homicidal maniac, like apparently a lot of other people in this society. Is this in reaction to the “infection” that, I assume, is responsible for the downfall of this world? All strangers are considered infected and must therefore be “cleansed”?
Posted by: PrussianMosby, February 3rd, 2018, 11:54am; Reply: 20
Hi,

In opening slugline plus first two paragraphs, you repeat so many words/impressions for an off-putting start.

P2 dialogue stumbles

P5 mixed up Suds and Hen in Bisto's dialogue, I guess

P7 okay, fuel of the story seems to be the changing event, better said, what it is; which methodically isn't a bad choice of generally proceeding here I think.

P8 how you constantly break up passages within dialogue does harm the read and irritates; if you feel you got no rhythm to present dialogue as usual, then dialogue is probably too long, repetitive, boring, which of course is case here btw -- also, while they talk, there's no movement in picture. Think about pictures, imagery and actions, even little ones, but anything.

P9 hmm, seems to be another one where the enlightenment era and separation of state and church didn't proceed or failed at some point. Unfortunately, it's all told by dialogue though.

Other small sidenote: don't cap the first letter in parenthetical, you don't want to have too much attention on such parenthesis or let them take any focus from the actual spoken words that follow. Btw, those are too frequent anyway. Most times the context in which you use them is clear anyway, which shows insecurity and that you don't trust the reader f.i.

"SUDS
(To Hen)
I’m only not killing you…"

After we followed the storyline, you think we even would consider that she means Bisto???

P 10 eventually some action

Well, the ending doesn't deliver. Bisto's change felt out of character.

It's not a disaster storywise. There's an interesting foundation of social countryside drifters, fighting along in the shadows of the metropolises' autocracy. I also liked their showing of a secure route by signal fires.

Then the last act makes it a common piece about betrayal in a chamber shootout scenario.
When it comes to presentation, you need to trust the reader and the established way of screenplay format, meaning: fewer parentheticals, fewer lyric asides, avoid overlong expositional dialogue, combine dialogue with active pictures, and avoid any self-inventive formatting, write in an active present tense.

The first and second act could have been shortened and be fine, I would have originally said. Because there IS a story that just needs to be communicated more direct, quicker and smooth, which would have just meant to undertake a cutting of 3-4 pages and edit for the good. Then the last act is where you actually could have decided everything in your favor regarding your choice of story structure with having that massive build-up dealing with solving a mystery as "story goal", or better said, as entertainment value for an audience. However, then the last act's story choice pushes it back in "seen before territory", a chamber play climax. IMO there should be more at this specific part and everything else would be fine and reasoned.

Otherwise, I wouldn't call this one a complete failure because there was some definite creativity and imaginative storytelling shimmering through from the background -- and the overall mistakes were that obvious and probably so often commented on, that you can learn quickly to get control over your execution, so that those better, creative parts will come to life soon. Storywise, work on your third act's plot resolution and just fix the other "cold" necesseties from the execution department ;-) imo ... Good luck-
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), February 3rd, 2018, 12:25pm; Reply: 21
So they could only be robbed/killed once odds were even and his wife/partner showed up?

As others have said, the atmosphere and the telling sells this story. On screen, we might be left a tad confused.
Posted by: SteveUK, February 4th, 2018, 12:45pm; Reply: 22
Not sure what the major event change was in this. I understand that society has fallen and that computers and religion were some way involved, but even with Hen’s backstory, it isn’t apparent as to what exactly happened.

The dialogue being broken up the way it was kind of threw me out a little. It’s not something I’ve seen before and I’m not entirely sure what purpose it serves.

I like the dystopian world you’ve created and how both the people and their language has devolved, but in the end I was left a little confused - not just as to what had happened, but what the actual story was about as a whole.
Posted by: Shakey, February 5th, 2018, 4:58am; Reply: 23
There is an actual story here, and I enjoyed that.

I’m not 100% sure what the Brave New World premise is - but that didn’t stop me following the story. I suspect the Millennium Bug happened and there was some sort of global financial/business crisis as a result. The stuff about the church listening in was an unexplained leap. Perhaps the rise of religious fundamentalism?

Adam’s Principle was interesting.

The longer chunks of dialogue are indeed a bit strange, as mentioned in some of the other comments. If they need breaking up that much, they’re probably too chunky period.

Nice attempt. Maybe too many things squeezed into too small a space?
Posted by: CameronD, February 6th, 2018, 11:59am; Reply: 24
No bueno on the logline. Hard to read something when you have no idea what it's about.

Air as thick as water? A SUPER heavy fog?

Cap THREE PEOPLE

Hen (40s)

It's a pet peeve of mine, but clothing doesn't reveal character. I know nothing about these 3 people from the clothes they are wearing.

"He's from city? "

Page 1 and all these errors are a red flag already.

Because the action reads well but the dialogue doesn't I'm guessing this is on purpose? But it makes the script hard to read and with the lack of logline I have no idea if this is fitting with your story or not.

Pg 4 and I'm more lost than your characters. Sorry. Out.
Posted by: DustinBowcot (Guest), February 6th, 2018, 1:37pm; Reply: 25

Quoted from CameronD


It's a pet peeve of mine, but clothing doesn't reveal character. I know nothing about these 3 people from the clothes they are wearing.


When I describe clothing on a character it can sometimes be used to denote their occupation but it can also be simply so that the reader gets a better visual image. I suppose we all have our ways.


NB, I haven't entered a script this time around.
Posted by: CameronD, February 6th, 2018, 1:55pm; Reply: 26
There is a place for clothing of course. But when you get specific about the type of hat, heels or purse one accessories with it's a bit much and I often see writing confusing wardrobe for character. I'd rather see somebody clowning around, cheating, helping, arguing etc than knowing what they decided to throw on when they got out of bed that morning.
Posted by: Grandma Bear, February 12th, 2018, 2:38pm; Reply: 27
Read all the comments and there isn't really a whole lot I can add to what has already been commented on. A few of my thoughts though...

A bit too descriptive, for me at least, in the beginning. I think you can trim that down.

I had no problem with the names. When someone uses unusual names it's very important to let us know if the character is supposed to be a he or she. Otherwise it can be really hard to picture the story. I wouldn't worry about those who complained about the names you chose. I often use "different" names too and have been asked many times, why can't you just use normal names. Normal to whom I ask. If you open your eyes and look around, not everyone is from a place with only english names. Besides, nowadays it's more important to appeal to an international audience than just American. Especially with features.

I liked the fire signals. Should use that more as it was interesting.

I hated Suds, but perhaps you wanted me to.

Would've liked to know more about what had happened and why.

Lots and lots of orphans. Get rid of those and you're script will be shorter.

Not bad, but needs a re-write or two, IMHO.
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