Looks like Dave's up for a Scriptshadow Amateur Offering nomination.

Anyone who's a regular on Scriptshadow - cast your vote for a terrific script!  Good luck, Dave. :)

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Don's edit:

The link: http://scriptshadow.net/amateur-offerings-the-butch-cassidy-and-the-heroin-addicted-governor-of-california-edition/

You can comment on the scripts in the comment section that is near the bottom of the page just below the ads.  You can log in with Discs, Twitter, Facebook or Google.  

Boy, some people over there act like they're real experts. I bet none of them could write a script as good as Dave's.  :-/

Quoted from Grandma Bear Boy, some people over there act like they're real experts. I bet none of them could write a script as good as Dave's.  :-/

Second that.

Man, I don't get that website.
Could someone please guide me. Last time Shawn (I think) helped me when one of hours got there. I read The Last Statement. It's one of my favorite works of Dave's and one of my favorites period. Really great script. I want very much to be able to vote.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Boy, some people over there act like they're real experts. I bet none of them could write a script as good as Dave's.  :-/

I read those comments. I wish I knew them, what sort of people are they? It's so weird to say the stuff they say there.

I have no idea how to vote there. I logged in, but again, forgot how to navigate the site and can't figure it out.

Some really snide and facetious comments on Scriptshadow. Yes, they do profess to be experts...

Two-sentence logline just says "I'm not a good enough writer to do it in one."
Really? How pathetic.
And another derisive comment without reading the script no doubt.

Dave, did you leave your email off the script?

I'm right behind you Dave but your blurb did read a little soft or at least short on further details. I think it would help to add your Page credentials and 'sell' the script a bit more. Not enough there imho to show what a quality writer you are.

Perhaps you're not around yet, and I notice Carson called for last minute candidates but if I were you I'd get on there, update the draft (include email) and answer some of your critics.

Apart from that, producers read that site as they do this one so contact email added for sure would be a good idea, and I know I'm preaching to the converted btw.

Libby, did you manage to submit a vote over there? Because I can't!

Quoted from khamanna Man, I don't get that website. Could someone please guide me. Last time Shawn (I think) helped me when one of hours got there. I read The Last Statement. It's one of my favorite works of Dave's and one of my favorites period. Really great script. I want very much to be able to vote.

Kham, Shawn's script ' What Doesn't Kill You (working title) was on there, and it got a [xx] worth the read.

You need to sign up on the 'join the discussion' or sign up with Disqus to cast your vote/ comment, and the votes are tallied.

* I'm giving it a go now.
Will let you know.

Thanks, Libby.

I'm in, I can post the comments, and I did, but I don't see how to vote. Ok, will be waiting for your instructions.

I'm having trouble getting in with Disqus error. Will try again later.

Kham,  I'm a lurker on Scriptshadow for quite some time so know that all you need to do is post a comment on the thread and clearly state: my vote is for The Last Statesman.

Scott, a regular on the site, usually tallies the votes.

P.S. I can't see where you posted. Perhaps a delay with new contributors. ?

Yeah, I can't see my comment either and I posted over an hour ago. It showed "on hold for the approval" but it disappeared.
Thanks, I'll do what you told me. And will read the first ten of other scripts, too.

Wow - thanks all - the support level is so cool!

Quoted Text Dave, did you leave your email off the script?

I did. Need to correct that for all my scripts. I have been spoiled by the fact that they are hosted on sites (here, mine and CJ's) and ergo contact has not been an issue. However - should put on the scripts.

Quoted Text Perhaps you're not around yet, and I notice Carson called for last minute candidates but if I were you I'd get on there, update the draft (include email) and answer some of your critics.

Yep - just got back -  it was a last minute submittal - hence the brevity. I do plan on responding to some of the comments.

Thanks again all - you guys rock.

That's the thing about Scriptshadow. I like reading the comments over there and I'll get involved in one-on-one conversations from time to time, but in a vacuum, the place has an air of "cult" about it. Carson's articles used to be really well-thought out and informative and they were good tips, but it's not the way it used to be. He's gone back to the well on too many things, he seems to be pushing scripts and movies which aren't all that good while disregarding ones that seem to be of a higher quality and it's like some of the other commenters go along with it like yes men. It's like he's become obsessed with these systems he's come up with (GSU, in-and-out, etc) and if a script doesn't fall into a narrow package, it's no good. It's just always seemed a bit strange to me.

If I make an account can I join in or is it only for regular members?

Congrats, Dave.

I don't really know a lot, or anything about Scriptshadow but more expose can only be a good thing.

I did read through all the comments. Some are completely idiotic. I love that you've kept your composure through some of the madness.

We all know you're a fantastic writer and I truly believe it's becoming a when as opposed to an if you get picked up for big things.

Quoted from Warren Congrats, Dave. I don't really know a lot, or anything about Scriptshadow but more expose can only be a good thing. I did read through all the comments. Some are completely idiotic. I love that you've kept your composure through some of the madness. We all know you're a fantastic writer and I truly believe it's becoming a when as opposed to an if you get picked up for big things.

Thanks, mate - yeah - I did think some of the comments were laughable - but also got some constructive feedback that will help - so all in all worth it

I gave it an honest go, read the full 10 of all the offered scripts and commented. Hope the writers won't get mad at me or anything.  
I'm pretty sure Carson will choose Dave's script, but let's see.

Don't worry about it, Kham. You read and cast a legit vote. I did too. I don't see it yet, but here's hoping...

The next part, if successful, is hoping Carson recognizes a terrific scribe and his work.

G'luck Dave.

Quoted from LC Don't worry about it, Kham. You read and cast a legit vote. I did too. I don't see it yet, but here's hoping... The next part, if successful, is hoping Carson recognizes a terrific scribe and his work. G'luck Dave.

Thanks Kham and Libby.

Think I am running a solid third :)

All good though - there have been some solid insights provided (along with the inane of course) - but the exercise has been proven valuable.

I'm not sure exactly how the voting works. I put in a good word for the script, but maybe you have to prove that you read at least parts of the others as well?

There's usually a lot of campaigning behind the scenes going on to between the regulars especially...

Congrats Dave. I had a script in it once and got dinged for not having my email address on it too, so you’re not alone there.

I like Carson though I disagree with him and some of his readers on a lot of things. Best to take what positive you can get and let the negative slide. Looks like you’re doing just that. I’m sure you’ll be fine.

Best of luck.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

What are the further rules on that? They announce the chosen script today, am I right? When to expect Carson's feedback?

Carson ended up reviewing something else and didn't like it.

Dave, did you mentioned in the email to him how well this script had done in competitions?

Oh, okay, can see it now. Too bad cause in the comments section, I saw Steph thank Carson but say that Dave was the clear winner.
Dave's script was ahead in numbers.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Carson ended up reviewing something else and didn't like it. Dave, did you mentioned in the email to him how well this script had done in competitions?

I did not. Perhaps I should have.

Quoted from khamanna Oh, okay, can see it now. Too bad cause in the comments section, I saw Steph thank Carson but say that Dave was the clear winner. Dave's script was ahead in numbers.

Not sure what happened Kham. Maybe there was an error when he last reported. He (Scott) did make some cryptic comment ("I think there were reasons") when asked why my script didn't make it. I don't have the interest in pursuing it and I do like the writer that they picked anyway.  

Sucks, but it's C's sandbox and he rarely explains himself. I voted for Dave, who won the AOW tally versus the script Carson chose to read, 9.5-6.5. Usually when C ignores the script with the most votes there's a reason, like vote tampering. Disqus is not hard to game if you open dummy accounts and hide/alter your IP address.

Two years ago going into the last day of voting, my script was leading 15-8, but I lost on the final day 18-17. No script ever lost a lead that big on the final day before. A few weeks later, I reviewed the thread to collect script notes and noticed several accounts that voted for the winner on that last day had been deleted.

Over the years, regulars have gotten wise to the cheating ways and several have been caught and removed. I looked through last week's votes and there was only one first time commenter, LC, whose a longtime regular here. I recognized most of Dave's supporters as regular AOW contributors. There was no foul play talk all weekend on the thread, which there always is when someone tries to #Wakandathevote.

So, I'm at a loss on this one. It makes no sense. And like the film industry, bank on no explanation of said rejection forthcoming. Hopefully, Dave can convert some of his new fans into readers. I've already reached out to him and checking out a new project. I hope others follow suit. He won over the members fair and square.

The film industry is filled with just as many know-it-all cheaters. Whether it's amateurs vote tampering to steal the AF spotlight, or working writers that lie on their Twitter feed about some new assignment they just landed so they appear to be in demand. It's all the same. If you want to work in the film industry, get used of folks taking every advantage of you they can. In that respect, Scriptshadow is an accurate craptastic microcosm of what to expect.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Sucks, but it's C's sandbox and he rarely explains himself. I voted for Dave, who won the AOW tally versus the script Carson chose to read, 9.5-6.5. Usually when C ignores the script with the most votes there's a reason, like vote tampering. Disqus is not hard to game if you open dummy accounts and hide/alter your IP address. Two years ago going into the last day of voting, my script was leading 15-8, but I lost on the final day 18-17. No script ever lost a lead that big on the final day before. A few weeks later, I reviewed the thread to collect script notes and noticed several accounts that voted for the winner on that last day had been deleted. Over the years, regulars have gotten wise to the cheating ways and several have been caught and removed. I looked through last week's votes and there was only one first time commenter, LC, whose a longtime regular here. I recognized most of Dave's supporters as regular AOW contributors. There was no foul play talk all weekend on the thread, which there always is when someone tries to #Wakandathevote. So, I'm at a loss on this one. It makes no sense. And like the film industry, bank on no explanation of said rejection forthcoming. Hopefully, Dave can convert some of his new fans into readers. I've already reached out to him and checking out a new project. I hope others follow suit. He won over the members fair and square. The film industry is filled with just as many know-it-all cheaters. Whether it's amateurs vote tampering to steal the AF spotlight, or working writers that lie on their Twitter feed about some new assignment they just landed so they appear to be in demand. It's all the same. If you want to work in the film industry, get used of folks taking every advantage of you they can. In that respect, Scriptshadow is an accurate craptastic microcosm of what to expect.

Brett - wow - I didn't even think of that. If that (i.e, vote tampering) was the reason that would be a real pisser. I had assumed from one of Scott's posts ("...this isn't a democracy.") that he was simply saying that the votes were merely recommends and that Carson would ultimately choose the script that suited him taking the votes into consideration but not as a final determiner. I thought more so when I noticed that votes were missing from my tally (one still is)...i.e., the vote count was not going to matter. So no need to waste the time keeping it accurate.

What would be particularly galling if this were the case is that as it stands now, they count votes:

- Merely based on someone's view of the logline.
- From folks who specifically state that they only read one script (i.e., it was the only one that interested them).
- From folks who only read the first page of each script.  
- From folks who don't indicate at all what they are basing their vote on. They just cast a vote.
- etc. etc.

In other words - it is not like it's a level playing field by design anyway and I did not solicit votes here. I merely said thanks to peeps who did.

What would really, really piss me off as if somehow I got DQ'd because they thought my votes were not on the square and they didn't tell me so giving me no chance to clear my name. That would be horseshit.

Hmm. Exhale, exhale.

Think I'll just settle on their was a legitimate reason.  - exhale, exhale.

PS - Brett - did you get my email on the scripts??? Looking forward to yours.

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Two years ago going into the last day of voting, my script was leading 15-8, but I lost on the final day 18-17. No script ever lost a lead that big on the final day before. A few weeks later, I reviewed the thread to collect script notes and noticed several accounts that voted for the winner on that last day had been deleted.

I remember that one! It got pretty nasty too, if I remember correctly. Don't remember who it was because I'm not a regular there. I usually only check the articles to see if it's something that interests me. Rarely do I check the comments. Only if I'm curious what the responses to that day's article are.

I didn't realize Dave's script got the most votes. That sucks then why it wasn't chosen. Why even have a vote?  :-/

Quoted from Grandma Bear I remember that one! It got pretty nasty too, if I remember correctly. Don't remember who it was because I'm not a regular there. I usually only check the articles to see if it's something that interests me. Rarely do I check the comments. Only if I'm curious what the responses to that day's article are. I didn't realize Dave's script got the most votes. That sucks then why it wasn't chosen. Why even have a vote?  :-/

At least don't call it a vote. Call it a recommendation

Just want to chime in here. I've been checking out Scriptshadow on a daily basis lately and Dave's script was the final incentive to sign up. I'm not a good 'group' person at the best of times, ;D not good at Networking, ((probably  to my detriment). I find Scriptshadow a bit cliquey, but I do find the info on there sometimes valuable and there have been times I've wanted to add, comment or question etc.

When Dave's script didn't make the cut I felt my 'vote' with lack of elaboration might have been a factor and I was kicking myself. Then I discovered, even without my vote, Dave was clear first over the finish line.

I read the first ten of each of the contender's scripts last weekend and should have commented on each, but I was a little under the weather and just couldn't summon the strength to post my usual in depth on each. My vote though was properly thought out and legit. It was imh the best.

To have posted a comment defending my vote after the fact, I thought wouldn't have helped in any way and I didn't want Steph to feel bad by adding to that little flurry of commenters who were asking Carson to give an explanation. It's his site, it's up to him - and yep, I noticed Scott's comment about it not being a democracy. Who knows what went on...

Dave, The Last Statesman is terrific and I wouldn't be surprised if Carson gives it the spotlight on another day. Gotta remember though Carson's opinion (though an educated one in the Biz) is just that. Great exposure though.

On a side note, I actually would like to see you submit The Beginning Of The End Of The End. RomComs are under represented on there and I'd be interested to hear Carson's suggestions. Just make sure you include awards and commendations. Your pitch was a little lacking there, like I said.

Libby:

Quoted Text Just want to chime in here. I've been checking out Scriptshadow on a daily basis lately and Dave's script was the final incentive to sign up. I'm not a good 'group' person at the best of times,  not good at Networking, ((probably  to my detriment). I find Scriptshadow a bit cliquey, but I do find the info on there sometimes valuable and there have been times I've wanted to add, comment or question etc.

I find the site useful, in particular Carson's "what did I learn" segments. Like all sites of this nature some of the comments are irritants (see the diatribe on WGA numbers and title pages) and some are very insightful. Like I said before, I got some fab notes from this exercise.

Quoted Text When Dave's script didn't make the cut I felt my 'vote' with lack of elaboration might have been a factor and I was kicking myself. Then I discovered, even without my vote, Dave was clear first over the finish line.

My final vote tally should have been 9.5 vs 6.5 for the runner up (for some reason they have no interest in correcting the tally). I can't imagine that your vote was the factor (more on that later).

Quoted Text Dave, The Last Statesman is terrific and I wouldn't be surprised if Carson gives it the spotlight on another day. Gotta remember though Carson's opinion (though an educated one in the Biz) is just that. Great exposure though.

Thanks - very kind.

Quoted Text On a side note, I actually would like to see you submit The Beginning Of The End Of The End. RomComs are under represented on there and I'd be interested to hear Carson's suggestions. Just make sure you include awards and commendations. Your pitch was a little lacking there, like I said.

I submitted Beginning several times with no bites. I did include all the contest stuff. On a side note, I won a highly discounted review chance from Carson and did have him review the script. I thought his notes were great and many of them will be incorporated.  Thought he did a good jib with strengths and weaknesses.

In terms of this particular challenge.

Gun to my head if I had to guess I am guessing that I got DQ'd under some ill-founded theory that I was not playing fair - i.e, I was vote mining. Which:

a) definitely was not.
b) had no impact on the final tally anyway.

So, my choices were to follow-up on that thread (i.e., demand to know why I was not selected!!!). I thought better of that because I did not want to take the shine away from Steph (a very cool person btw) by hijacking that thread and at the end of the day I am pretty sure it wouldn't have made any difference. So I just decided to assume that there was a writing reason for the non-selection and not burn any more brain cells over the entire thing. Like I said, some of the posters there gave great notes (I think I got 4 full reads which for an AOW is rare).

"Gun to my head if I had to guess I am guessing that I got DQ'd under some ill-founded theory that I was not playing fair - i.e, I was vote mining."

That wouldn't be my guess. Scott counted the votes, most people commented on all scripts. I for one commented on all and indicated the reasons I didn't like the other scripts. And almost all the others did. There were regulars that selected your script as well.

I think that Carson knows Steph and sincerely wants to help that writer. She's a regular, that's why. And she seems like a nice person.

If that's true it's understandable I guess.  

Just a theory, but in the original Offering thread

http://scriptshadow.net/amateur-offerings-the-butch-cassidy-and-the-heroin-addicted-governor-of-california-edition/#disqus_thread

Dave's script wasn't in the lead by votes. That thing wasn't complete there somehow. Could be that Carson just looked into the thread and simply took that result for real.

But who knows.

Another off topic question about Scriptshadow. Does anybody know what the hell happened to that short script competition that started in spring 2017? Is there an insider who knows what happened, why there wasn't any proclamation, or did I miss something...

Quoted from PrussianMosby Just a theory, but in the original Offering thread http://scriptshadow.net/amateur-offerings-the-butch-cassidy-and-the-heroin-addicted-governor-of-california-edition/#disqus_thread Dave's script wasn't in the lead by votes. That thing wasn't complete there somehow. Could be that Carson just looked into the thread and simply took that result for real. But who knows. Another off topic question about Scriptshadow. Does anybody know what the hell happened to that short script competition that started in spring 2017? Is there an insider who knows what happened, why there wasn't any proclamation, or did I miss something...

Could be - but doubtful since there were tons of comments about the vote disparity afterwards.

Have no idea what happened to the short competition - it was short lived.

Apparently just an error.  My script will be reviewed next Friday

Excellent news!

Thanks

Well, well. Alex's theory was right on the money. Good job.

Nice to know this was just a mistake.

Thanks Dave, for the responses to mine.
And Congrats!  Next weekend.  :D

Quoted from LC Well, well. Alex's theory was right on the money. Good job. Nice to know this was just a mistake. Thanks Dave, for the responses to mine. And Congrats!  Next weekend.  :D

Much thanks

Quoted from eldave1 Apparently just an error.  My script will be reviewed next Friday

Awesome news! I'm glad you're getting the spotlight you deserve, Dave!
I looked back at the last official vote total and noticed two votes for you weren't added. So, it appeared that the vote was much closer than it actually was.
Disqus has been awful about editing posts lately, so the vote keeper's had a hard time updating.
I'm looking forward to your review! Congrats again! You really earned my vote. :)

Quoted from Electric Dreamer Awesome news! I'm glad you're getting the spotlight you deserve, Dave! I looked back at the last official vote total and noticed two votes for you weren't added. So, it appeared that the vote was much closer than it actually was. Disqus has been awful about editing posts lately, so the vote keeper's had a hard time updating. I'm looking forward to your review! Congrats again! You really earned my vote. :)

Thanks,  mate

That's good to hear.  I don't follow Scriptshadow all that closely, but Carson seems open to listening to his readership (if that's the right word) and giving writers a fair shake.  To be honest I've yet to check out TLS, but best of luck - it's a good platform to gain exposure.

Great news, Dave. I've yet to read The Last Statesman but I'll certainly give it a shot. Everybody says great things about it! Looking forward to read Carson's review as well.

Quoted from stevemiles That's good to hear.  I don't follow Scriptshadow all that closely, but Carson seems open to listening to his readership (if that's the right word) and giving writers a fair shake.  To be honest I've yet to check out TLS, but best of luck - it's a good platform to gain exposure.

Thanks,  buddy

Quoted from Philostrate Great news, Dave. I've yet to read The Last Statesman but I'll certainly give it a shot. Everybody says great things about it! Looking forward to read Carson's review as well.

Much appreciated - thanks

What did you think of the review, Dave?

Carson is clearly impressed with your writing.

And I agree with your estimation: "Wasn't for me (him) - quite yet."   :)

The review does seem better than the final rating. Says some very nice and accurate things about the quality of writing.

Can't really comment on the review of the entire script because I've only read the first 10.

I wouldn't be upset with a review like that, not in the least.

Congrats again Dave.

Well, I read the review and don't quite agree with it.
Actually, I agree with the review but not with the rating which seemed quite strange.
I agree with his gripe, but it seems like a small one. Lowell haven't seen the people he's fighting for - so in the next draft he'll see them, that's about what 2-3 scenes, no more.

I don't know. Carson seems to note the writing, the stakes, the way everything is tied up, the way the character pops up from the very first page. And then he marks it low. Might be the page count which he obviously didn't like at all.

My main grump would be - Jason comes late into the picture for me. Carson's words make really good sense, I think the script will definitely benefit from that addition to the Lowel's motivation.
(sorry if I spelled his name wrong, I read the script a while ago)

Anyway, good luck to you with the script. It would be interesting to see the rewrite if you're planning one.

LC, Warren and Kham - thanks for the interest and support.  My reaction to the specific issues raised:

Page Count

Disagree.  Yes, at some level page count can be a problem (i.e., if it is extremely low or extremely high). But most films range from 80 pages on the short end to 150 at the high end. 120 pages is certainly not outside the norm in my view particularity for a dialogue heavy script such as this one. Christ, you can right a car chase scene in one page that may take up 10 minutes of film time and 10 pages of dialogue that takes up 10 minutes of film time. All in all I think page count "rules" are really off based.

I also kind of think that Carson mis-stated his problem. If they were 120 pages that he absolutely loved, I don't think I would have got the page count criticism because he wouldn't have noticed - he would have been engaged in the story. i.e., I think it's a misnomer. I think it's more of you don't need 120 pages to tell that story rather than no story should be 120 pages. Unfortunately, the peeps in the thread all run with the page count issue and I really don't think that's the point.

The Veteran Issue

Carson's primary issue was premise. Why does Lowell care about the veteran issue and why should the reader? When I wrote this, it was irrelevant to me as the issue almost didn't matter - it was a dying man grasping at straws trying to get something significant done before he died. A last gasp at making up for lost time. In my mind, the specific issue didn't matter. i.e., the Homeless Vet issue was random. If Maria's health issues were being ignored - that'd be the cause. If it was an addiction issue - that'd be the cause. Lowell was meant to be grasping at straws to find something to care about rather than caring about something.

HOWEVER: Seems that Carson as well as several other posters that I respect saw that as a stumbling block. They wanted more motivation - desperation if you will - for Lowell's antics. So, I think I need to cede that point.

it's a relatively easy fix. Should not be hard to write why Lowell cares about homeless vets in general and this homeless vet in particular. Think I can get there.

Inrto Jason earlier


A few posters had this issue and I think it is a valid one. It would help the story.

Overall, this was a useful exercise and I think I will play in the sandbox again.  It was a productive exercise. Thanks for your interest - as always - appreciated.