The Venus Heist by Alex Mann - Short, Film Noir - Two women report a heist to the same detective. But can these two best friends turn in their suspects... each other? And which one of them actually committed the crime? 11 pages - pdf, format

Writer interested in feedback on this work

I had a bit of trouble with imagining the opening.

It's at night, and we have a shadowy figure entering the building, but then the Bank is still filled with customers. It all felt a bit weird.

The tone, I felt it tried too hard to be a 50's film noir, instead of just being a noiry story.

As for the story: I didn't really get it, I'm sorry to say.

I didn't get why they involved Rikki. It might just be me, but I didn't follow the story's logic at all.

Picked the bottom script to start and will work my way up!

Hmm, didn't really get into this one. I had to check the genre as I thought it may have been some type of Blade Runner clone lol.

I think the writer had this good concept worked out but it sorta lost its way as can happen. Some elements of comedy in there, perhaps unintentionally?

Valiant effort but it wasn't for me.

The title suggests a female based crime drama.

The author's name suggests a tough guy style.

The logline states the genre as film noir and two best friends are in a hurry to turn each other in after allegedly committing the crime.

So far, looks quite interesting.

Let's see the choices made.

The opening scene reads as a comedy which is an unusual slant on film noir but I'll go with it. Dialogue is laced with standards such as sister and hot cakes. The characters don't have any of the hardness of film noir. The story line is difficult to follow as is the ending. Changing the time line so the two vixens trade barbs while doing the heist and there meltdown as friends would be another way to go.

A romp like this needs to be nailed to work. Not sure what Hammer would say about that.

The asides in the opening threw me a little. seemed to be trying too hard.

The dialogue seems a little stilted and escalates into agression quickly, without enough setup.

Also felt a little like you'd just written a male character, Rikki, and just changes he to she, him to her etc.

Rikki is a weird PI, he doesn't seem to ever get hired at any point and acts more like a cop.

Then I'm afraid I just got a bit confused by the narrative.

There's some decent writing in here but, and it could be me, it got a little muddled for me.

This reads as a parody of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer. Not sure if that was the intention but it doesn't quite work for me. A lot of dialogue and intercutting scenes, which made it difficult for me to follow.

The problem for me was I didn't buy into the premise. Do people report crimes to detectives or to the police?  They normally report things they want investigating to detectives and crimes to the police, so I wasn't buying into this early on.

It also felt like some of these characters were male, the P.I. especially.

Sorry, not my cup of tea but others may love it.  

-Mark

Lots of visuals in this one. I kind of liked it at the beginning and overall it's not bad at all.

I think you should let us in their heads, explain why Ivy needs to rob all of the sudden - you may focus on the girls's rivalry, I see you brushed on it but that's not enough I think.

It reads very much noir by the way - that's a super hard genre I think.

A tough one from a logic perspective at it's very premise - Two separate women report a bank heist to the same detective rather than to the police and the Detective takes the case rather than directing them to the police. Also a bit of a logic stretch that in all of the multiple heists involving dozens of customers - no men are around without any explanation is to why that would be.

  

Sorry, but right out of the gate, it's obvious this writing style ain't for me.  It's trying so damn hard to be cool, but for me, it's irritating.

Why do we have "ESTABLISHING SHOT" in 3 scenes? Really?  Completely unnecessary.  There are also a whole lot of "DARK CORNER" scenes.  Is this the exact same dark corner each time?  If not, that's an obvious mistake that wold be Hell to try and figure out in production.

I really dislike the snarky style, not naming characters, but saying, "we'll call her...Asswiper, how about?  Yeah...that's hat we'll call her.  Does that work for you, Reader?  If not, how about you call her anyfuckingthign you want to, because I'm  not going to name her, because it's so cool to write like this and show everyone what a talented writer I really am.

End of rant.

OK, so what kind of bank is open at night?  Really?  Just a terribly fake setup here.

"OFFICE OF RIKKI WESSON, P.I." - Seeing (or writing) this Slug numerous times should have told the writer that it's not a great Slug...at all.  It just sounds terrible.

So this "Witness" has only 1 eye?  That's very odd.

Oh...now it's OK to reveal the Witness's name?  Why is that?

Well, there is a heavy "noir" feel to the script and writing, so maybe I should try not to hate it so much?

Page 3 - Why are you repeating the Slug again?  Looks to be exactly the same Slug we're already in.  OK, so it's a different night or time, huh?  Think how that will look on film?  You end the scene with Amy talking, then the next scene is the same place with a different chick walking in.  That's don't work, brother.

Page 8 - Wow...now we have INTERCUTS going on?  Oh man...

OK, the end.  I don't get the end at all, but at this point, I don't think it really matters.

This isn't for me in any way...the story, the writing, the characters, the dialogue...none of it.

But, it's a tough genre and you definitely seem to know your noir, so points for that for sure.

Full disclosure – There is no genre I’m less versed in than Film Noir.  I would have been terrified if I got stuck writing in that genre.  I would have just had every character talk about “dames and gams” and had them say “see” after every line of dialogue.  So with that said I think you got a crappy draw and will judge accordingly from that.

I like the first page.  That style of writing is snappy, and I personally appreciate it.

If I hadn’t already said I’d be lenient b/c of my lack of noir knowledge, I’d probably give you crap for describing your characters with just about the only 2 actors I know prominently from said genre.  Also, Bogart as a woman is not drawing an image in my brain at all.

You. Slimy. Bitch. – Ok, what’s the poop?  - not a big fan of this dialogue exchange.

Again with these descriptions.  “This is noir, so just picture this old actress in this role… I’ll wait for you to google.”  I’m not enough of a film historian to know what Marlene Dietrich looks like on the spot… but I appreciate you mixing her with a current day actress.

Oh and Rikki is in no way coming across as a woman to me.

“Back in black!” – I don’t get it.

Jeez, didn’t expect the teller to bite it.

It’s getting jumbled for at this point, kinda losing track which woman is which.

I guess this is a solid little story.  Kinda figured they’d both be in on the robberies, but like I said, this had to be a tough genre to crack.  Honestly, I don’t even know if it was successful.  To me it just seems like you took the film noir archtype and turned him into a woman… unconvincingly and then just peppered in some nods to actresses of yore.  But, like I said at the top, I don’t know any better, so all in all this isn’t bad.

Well, I guess you have all of the elements of a classic noir and I did like some of the visuals, but for the most part, this script really had me scratching my head.

Why does she use a knife?!?  Why not a gun?  Why don't any of the bank guards have guns?  Why go to the same P.I. instead of the cops?  Why would Ivy go at all?  Just a ton of logic gaps here.

She murders the teller completely out of left field, completely against the whimsical tone you had throughout.

I don't really have more notes for you.  The writing was competent enough (although you use the term "graces" twice, both of which felt out of place), but the story was just nonsensical to me.

How many customers are in the bank? You never specify.

"An unseen woman inches towards..." How do we know this if she is unseen?

You've now introduced "The Witness character three different times. Not good. It's actually slowing down the read for me.

You have Rikki pick up the newspaper in one action line, then you have Amy slam the paper down in the next. I'm confused.

"What's the poop?" I really hope this is a typo and you meant "Scoop".

You keep describing your characters by comparing them to other actresses (I'm assuming), but besides Jennifer Lawernce, I have no idea who you are talking about. This doesn't work.

The exchange between the Hamilton Bank Teller and The Robber on page 6 is awful.

I'm forcing myself to continue at this point. I'm sorry but I'm calling it quits. I really don't like to be so negative. I really like the title, for what it's worth. If you give this a rewrite let me know and I'll give you my thoughts on it.

~Zack~

This one was a bit of a wrestle, very messy and just couldn't get to grips with it. Some typos and formatting issues didn't help matters, but the story just roams all over the place and the dialogue isn't good enough to reign it in.

Not for me I'm afraid,

Cam

I can't add much more than what everyone else said.  I found it very confusing.  Unless they are both bank robbers, this made no sense.

Why involve the PI??  That makes no sense.

Film Noir is very hard to write, believe me, I've tried in the past...

I think you gave it a good shot, but, to try to cram so much into so few pages hurt this story.

It might make a cool story to come back to and write it the way it should be written, with a man as the lackey.

Good luck but, sadly, it didn't work for me.

Dan

I also tried but couldn't really make head nor tail of the story.

I think the terms: 'sister' 'dame', 'hotcakes' 'dollface' et al really only work if it's a male noir character speaking to a female. Do cell phones belong in noir? I'd replace the cell phone with a cigarette (even though it's politically incorrect), wafting smoke, a black cat, someone skulking in the shadows in silhouette. In really capturing the essence of noir there needs to be a slower darker mood too. The opening read to me as a super hero villain heist with its high energy.

You captured some of the noir feel,, to your credit.

I was quite envious of the person who was allocated noir, now I see the challenge with it being a female cast only.

'You know how to whistle, don't you Steve? You just put your lips together, and blow ...'

You need a guy and a gal imh, just to get off the starting blocks. So much of it is intrigue and sex and crime all  mixed together.
Good effort.

I couldn't get into this.  I found it to be a little confusing, and actually had to go back and read it again.  I was still confused after the second read.  

The dialogue didn't really work for me.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of this one.  Sorry.  

Pretty solid title
Logline fits the genre and explains central plot. Yes.

P1 tone is there

Lots of comparisons, but it works with me; however, quite risky in case of if it works with most others…

A quick read.

This script hasn't unfolded its potential yet. There was a bit too much unserious irony (Froot Loops, dialogues) which mirrored the insecurity of the story.

Solid effort. It was a bit repetitive constructed, so that the plot felt also a bit tedious, honestly. Although the general atmosphere was there, I missed some more noirish coolness from the characters' actions, this weird genre-typical stuff. However I recognized the effort to try to serve some. It just hasn't fully delivered yet. Not bad. Not bad.

So much said already. I just didn't get it. Noir or not, it just distracted me and I quite trying to figure out where this was going. Got to the end and was still scratching my head. When the bank tellers started talking back, that just killed it. When the teller asked 'All of it?' What's the bandit going to say? No, $50 bucks should do it. Sorry.

Rikki doesn't really show initiative in this story. If it weren't for characters coming to her and dragging her places, I get the sense she'd just as soon stay at the office eating cheerios.

I like what this was attempting, but there's too many plot points thrown into this small space. Things race along, but the characters are never built. Considering it's a mystery, where anyone could be the culprit, you need to build character into it more. Who’s got the motive? Who’s got the means? What about one person makes them more suspicious than the other? I couldn't really detect a difference between Ivy and Amy, so trying to guess who was guilty was more like flipping a coin then solving a mystery.

By the ending, I’m guessing they were working together and trying to frame each other. That's a good twist, but the setup and development just needs more space for it to be an “Aha!” moment.

kudos for getting Film Noir and still being able to get something out. I'm not familiar with that genre so was interested to give this one a read.

Wouldn't it be better to call the shdaowy figure "it" instead of "she", how are we able to see exactly what she is carrying with her? Unless you mean the silhouette of the Burlap sac and the Bowie Knife?

Not sure why they would call P.I's and not the cops.

started off well enough, but by the ending I was losing interest,

Hope you plan on re-writing this after the OWC is done, this could be an interesting short with some adjustments.

[quote
]ROBBER
Come on, I ain't got all night, hot
cakes!
[/quote]

BWAHAHAHAHA! Hot cakes?

Quoted Text RIKKI Only banks I've ever heard of are on Earth, sweetie. Amy SLAMS the paper down on the desk, eyes cold and hard. She glares at Rikki. AMY You. Slimy. Bitch. A flash of lightning. THUNDER. RIKKI Okay, okay. What's the poop?

Umm..ok? I'm gonna keep going with this.

Well, Rikki is the laziest PO ever! And, I'm including that fat one from family guy. And she just took her with her? Ok.

This one suffers from identity crisis. It claims to be the present day, but reads like it's from 40 years ago or more. I got confused. Sorry. Good effort though.

Well done for the effort.

I liked the set up with a love triangle, who's the baddy so to speak?

The script doesn't quite hit the spot, and for a short, I would suggest fewer scenes and locations, but that's just a preference.

The twist being that they both were robbers is also good.

*WARNING: LONG POST *

I know a lot of you have questions, which is a bit of a surprise to me, but I’ll go along.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I had a bit of trouble with imagining the opening. It's at night, and we have a shadowy figure entering the building, but then the Bank is still filled with customers. It all felt a bit weird.

To answer your first question, originally, the robberies and Ivy all happened in the daytime, but I feared people would tell me it’s not noir if there’s even one scene that takes place in the daytime. I played it safe and changed everything to night in the final draft. It read better to me, and it felt like a noir. Originally, only two or three scenes took place at night.

I added stormy weather whenever Amy visited to differentiate it from Ivy’s visits. Maybe now that the challenge is over, I can rework it a bit? I agree, the Amy/Ivy switch (“Amy/Ivy’s a serial robber, blah blah”) read better switching from night to day, rather than night to night.

Quoted from stevie Picked the bottom script to start and will work my way up! Some elements of comedy in there, perhaps unintentionally?

If you’re talking dialogue, sure. I wanted to give the robber some quips, while everybody else (including Amy and Ivy proper) play it mostly straight (Rikki gets a few deadpans). It’s the kind of snappy dialogue I would assume to be in a noir.

Quoted from grademan The title suggests a female based crime drama. The author's name suggests a tough guy style.

I came up with the concept first, then the title, then the story, characters, etc.

The pen name is intended to be: Alex is an androgynous name (Alexander, Alexandra, Alexis), and Mann (Man) is pretty self-explanatory. It’s not the first time I’ve used a pen name that tied into the OWC theme:

Board Game OWC: Jim Onji (Jumanji)

Taxi OWC: Utah Kintumi (Taxi Driver’s “You talkin’ to me?”)

Quoted from MarkRenshaw This reads as a parody of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer. Not sure if that was the intention but it doesn't quite work for me. The problem for me was I didn't buy into the premise. Do people report crimes to detectives or to the police?  They normally report things they want investigat[ed] to detectives and crimes to the police, so I wasn't buying into this early on. It also felt like some of these characters were male, the P.I. especially.

Nope, no parody. I wanted to write a straight noir.

You brought up a very good question. I figured the cops would say Amy and Ivy don’t have much of a case naming someone without proof. Since, the robber disguised herself (including her voice), the only way to get proof/evidence of identity would be to catch them in the act, which would go beyond a cop’s job description. Also, perhaps Amy and Ivy didn’t go to the police because they already have records?

Here’s some things a PI can and cannot do:

https://www.pinow.com/articles/456/what-a-private-investigator-cannot-do

Police vs. private Detective:

http://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/private-investigator-versus-police-detective/

I wrote the characters in such a way that they could be either gender and the story would still work (to the extent that it does).

And now… (deep breath) …onto Jeff.

Quoted from Dreamscale There are also a whole lot of "DARK CORNER" scenes.  Is this the exact same dark corner each time?  If not, that's an obvious mistake that wo[u]ld be Hell to try and figure out in production.

Of course it’s the same exact dark corner, each and every time.

Quoted from Dreamscale I really dislike the snarky style, not naming characters, but saying, "we'll call her...Asswiper, how about?  Yeah...that's hat we'll call her.  Does that work for you, Reader?  If not, how about you call her anyfuckingthi[ng] you want to, because I'm  not going to name her, because it's so cool to write like this and show everyone what a talented writer I really am. End of rant.

I’m concealing the characters’ identities so as not to spoil the twist ending. And I’m told this is the correct way to do it.

Quoted from Dreamscale OK, so what kind of bank is open at night?  Really?  Just a terribly fake setup here

See above about me changing day scenes to night. I was afraid people would blast me for doing a noir in the daytime, but the actual complaint is the opposite? Wow.

Quoted from Dreamscale "OFFICE OF RIKKI WESSON, P.I." - Seeing (or writing) this Slug numerous times should have told the writer that it's not a great Slug...at all.  It just sounds terrible.

I disagree, but different strokes. Maybe DETECTIVE’S OFFICE would have worked better. But it works for me.

Quoted from Dreamscale So this "Witness" has only 1 eye?  That's very odd.

Only one of her eyes (and the area around it) is visible. It could be either eye (I prefer the right because it would be on the left-hand side of the screen), but the viewer would never be able to tell with the rest of the body obscured by shadows. I didn’t want to write anything unfilmable.

This is basically what I had in mind:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/dark-eye-stock-footage/161330225

Quoted from Dreamscale Oh...now it's OK to reveal the Witness's name?  Why is that?

See above. I only conceal their names when they’re involved in the robberies, because I reveal that they were both in on it; I show Amy as the robber, which logically, makes Ivy the witness. Perhaps they’re learning from one another and pulling off every other heist, alternating between each other.

Quoted from Dreamscale Page 3 - Why are you repeating the Slug again?  Looks to be exactly the same Slug we're already in.  OK, so it's a different night or time, huh?  Think how that will look on film?  You end the scene with Amy talking, then the next scene is the same place with a different chick walking in.  That's don't work, brother.

See above. I agree, when I changed all the scenes to night in the final draft, I tried to make this transition work by changing the weather. After the fact, I thought about inserting a calendar and ripping off yesterday’s date. But now that I think about it, I could have left it alone to begin with.

Quoted from Dreamscale Page 8 - Wow...now we have INTERCUTS going on?  Oh man…

Ramp up the suspense, man.

Quoted from Dreamscale OK, the end.  I don't get the end at all, but at this point, I don't think it really matters.

As noted above, they were BOTH in on it.

Quoted from Dreamscale This isn't for me in any way...the story, the writing, the characters, the dialogue...none of it.

You said the same thing about Mad Max: Fury Road and It Follows.

Quoted from Conz Also, Bogart as a woman is not drawing an image in my brain at all.

Yeah, this one. I’m sure there’s some woman out there who looks like Bogart, at least in the face. Someone like Melissa Leo or Mickey Faerch.

Quoted from Conz Oh and Rikki is in no way coming across as a woman to me.

I wrote her a tad butch and manly, admittedly. The characters could be either gender.

Quoted from Conz “Back in black!” – I don’t get it.

I take it you’re not fluent in AC/DC? Just one of the robber’s quips/one-liners.

Quoted from Digitaldecayfilms Why does she use a knife?!?  Why not a gun?

Quoted Text JOKER Do you know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick; you can’t savor all the… little emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?

Knives are more intimate. Why do you think Michael Myers uses a knife instead of a gun? Jason? Freddy? Norman Bates? Imagine the shower scene with a gun; it’d be over in five seconds. Bernard Herrmann wouldn’t have bothered writing that iconic screech.

Quoted from Digitaldecayfilms Why don't any of the bank guards have guns?

I actually didn’t think of that. I figured she got away before the guards could do anything. Hence, the smoke bomb in the first robbery, the titular heist. And I never did say they did or didn’t have guns; I just never wrote them in.

Quoted from Digitaldecayfilms Why go to the same P.I. instead of the cops?  Why would Ivy go at all?  Just a ton of logic gaps here.

I did the best I could in a week’s time. Why go to a PI? See above, to catch them in the act. Maybe Rikki is investigating in between scenes? There’s only so much I could do within 12 pages, but I’m happy with what I accomplished.

Ivy is going so she can catch Amy. Rikki is suspicious of both of them at some point.

Quoted from Zack How many customers are in the bank? You never specify.

I never specified because the customers aren’t that important to the story, but it would only be a handful.

Quoted from Zack "An unseen woman inches towards..." How do we know this if she is unseen?

It’s her P.O.V. Should be obvious.

Quoted from Zack You've now introduced "The Witness character three different times. Not good. It's actually slowing down the read for me.

See above.

Quoted from Zack You have Rikki pick up the newspaper in one action line, then you have Amy slam the paper down in the next. I'm confused.

Rikki is reading the paper. Amy, on the opposite side, slams the palm of her hand onto the paper. Again, should be obvious. Sorry if it’s confusing.

Quoted from Zack "What's the poop?" I really hope this is a typo and you meant "Scoop".

poop
noun, slang.

relevant information, especially a candid or pertinent factual report; low-down:

Send a reporter to get the real poop on that accident.

Origin 1945-50, Americanism; apparently extracted from poop sheet

Quoted from Cameron Some typos and formatting issues didn't help matters.

I read and re-read several times to make sure I caught everything. I wonder what I missed?

Quoted from LC I also tried but couldn't really make head nor tail of the story. I think the terms: 'sister' 'dame', 'hotcakes' 'dollface' et al really only work if it's a male noir character speaking to a female. Do cell phones belong in noir?

I was sort of trying to be ironic and/or turn that convention (hotcakes, sister) on its ear. Ditto the hard-bitten detective archetype.

Cell phones, I never actually used them in the script, but I thought I should update the noir genre somewhat.

Quoted from EWall433 What about one person makes them more suspicious than the other?

Ivy Murdoch is pretty suspicious. First of all her name. “Ivy” is associated with poison Ivy. Then “Murdoch” sounds like “murder.” Then there’s the fact she reports the crime AFTER Amy already did so. Then, Ivy implicates Amy, who we’ve assumed is a protagonist. Plus, who would suspect somebody named Amy Swan? Amy is a very agreeable name, and a swan is a very innocent animal. All of this was intentional and very much thought out.

...

That should answer everything.   Thanks for the reads and honest feedback. I had a lot of fun writing it.