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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    October 2K16 One Week Challenge  ›  Render Stillskin - OWC
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  Author    Render Stillskin - OWC  (currently 4134 views)
Don
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 12:16pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Render Stillskin by Big Bad Wolf

A handicapped girl, desperate for cash to help her junkie mother, signs a deal with a strange creature which she will soon regret.

Short Urban Gothic Horror based on Rumplestillskin


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AnthonyCawood
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 2:58pm Report to Moderator
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Really enjoyed this until the very last page and then it lost me, the mask may have been good enough, how did Mom know to read the contract and do people really sleep in hoodies?

BUT... well written and I think some work on the end and it could be great.

Anthony


Anthony Cawood - Award winning screenwriter
Available Short screenplays - http://www.anthonycawood.co.uk/short-scripts
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khamanna
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 3:21pm Report to Moderator
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It's well written despite the lack of time and reads really well in my opinion.

Sound concept, solid story. Nice work throughout.

I was a bit confused about Mom knowing what to do. Besides it's not her contract but Maria's - so I think you could show to us how she talked them into taking her skin instead of Maria's. Also, I don't think you need thugs for your first scene. I thought it would be about them. They are extra characters that don't show in the story. I think it could be solely about Maria, her mother and the agency.

Nice twist on an old story! I like it.
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Warren
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 4:40pm Report to Moderator
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Not bad, it's quite well written.

Why did mom do the deed? I think I missed something.

Anyway it's a consider from me.


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Gum
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 6:22pm Report to Moderator
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Seriously disturbing, great twist on the theme and use of ambiguity... I dig the alternative meaning  you had here , makes you wonder if the original writer was not all there.

First few pages really tugged at the heart strings and, it was all I could bear to envision Maria having to suffer even more to appease her sick Mom. Not entirely sure the punks bullying Maria was necessary, IMO,  I would liked to have seen you use that space to build a more complex relationship between Maria and her Mom. It paints a vivid picture, mind you; of Mom hanging around to contend with Maria's disability sans a Father figure, it's a common theme within society for couples to separate simply due to the stress of having to care for a disabled child, and Mom has chosen to contend with it via self destruction.

Slender Man is a creepy little figure, I envisioned him similar to Gollum (if that's what you were going for), wherein the skin masks are his 'Precious'. He feeds/preys on the week, making him an ambitious little weirdo, like Lord Cutler Beckett from Pirates of the Caribbean... simply because he will go to any lengths to possess Sparrows 'Compass', knowing it will take him to that which he most desires.

I guess my burning question is: "what is Stealskins" primary drive to possess beautiful faces? Is it because he himself is so hideous? Perhaps that concept would give this script a great edge and you could devote more time developing that character.

Ending fell a bit flat for me, unfortunately,  cause now Maria's really screwed without her Mom. I was hoping Maria would concoct a clever way out of the contract after seeing the homeless man without a face.

Other than that, this was very well written and had a clever use of theme, good work.
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LC
Posted: October 15th, 2016, 7:20pm Report to Moderator
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Not going to analyze any technical stuff. I'm not a voter, just a reader. Not sure you need the bit in the middle with the gang. Do you? Hmm, maybe you do...

You kept my attention throughout, suitably creepy, plenty of horror. If I was voting I'd give it a Rec.

Nice job, writer.


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MarkRenshaw
Posted: October 16th, 2016, 8:09am Report to Moderator
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This is great! There’s a couple of minor things which bugged me. The comment which said her mother was an adult version of Maria, who else would she be an adult version of? Also the scene heading of (MCDONALDS OR SOMETHING) was distracting.

However, the rest fit the OWC perfectly and in such an effective, creepy and horrific way. The ending needs a bit of work to make clear what is going on and why but a superb job, a rec from me.

-Mark


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2016, 8:20am Report to Moderator
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A few choices confused me but the deal with the devil type plot device is sound

Why wheelchair? Not sure that added. Bullies in park?

In short a girl has to raise cash to help sort her and her mother out, hence she does a deal.

The contract with the creature wasn't all that clear - I wasn't quite sure why she was offering at the time. Picture, mask ?

Almost felt like we should meet the creature earlier then have longer in the following dilemma to add tension throughout.

Removing the face of his victims is a nice motivation!

All the best


My scripts  HERE

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Dreamscale
Posted: October 16th, 2016, 5:24pm Report to Moderator
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Well, another very obvious choice...I just hope it has it's own re imagining.  Let's see....

OK, just a heads up here - Mother is going for hot chocolate, so I have to assume it's cold, and you should have probably set this scene better, so we know that.

"MCDONALDS OR SOMETHING" - very poor...you're writing this script.  Tell us where they are.  Really?

"Let's name a few" - Oh man..don't start this kind of shit...

Page 3 - Not buying any of this, sorry to say.  Doesn't ring remotely true.  Almost as if Maria and Mother have never been in this place before, but they obviously live this life and this is their home.

Damn...I hate it so much when writers don't include a subject in their passages.  Why?  Seriously?  WHY????

Is it Mom or Mother?  You need to be 100% consistent and you're far off from this %.

Asides...killing this..quickly.  I can't take much more...

Damn...I'm sorry, but this doesn't ring remotely realistic and I'm so ready to leave...and I am.

No Grade
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SAC
Posted: October 17th, 2016, 7:10am Report to Moderator
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Writer,

An interesting take on this challenge. Though the writing was fine for the most part. Render Stillskin kept reminding me of Golum from LOTR. You set this all up, then didn't follow up. The three hoods? Thought one of them was gonna substitute for the payment of the debt. Really thought Maria's mom was gonna kick her drug habit. What happened to the masks Maria made? She didn't even get to show them to Render!

Anyway, I gotta say I did like this. However, it just went, IMO, in the wrong direction and ended on an abruptly grim note.

Steve


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MarkItZero
Posted: October 17th, 2016, 2:58pm Report to Moderator
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Fairly well written but a lot of the story choices threw me for a loop and kept taking me out of the read.

I thought you were setting it in present day to add an element of realism. Then a gang of thugs kidnaps a girl leading to a stand-off with her syringe-wielding mother in broad daylight in the middle of a park.

At the height of this confrontation...


Quoted Text
Bored with it all now, Chip Tooth walks off, leaving Maria.

CHIP TOOTH
I was just kidding anyway. Let the
junkie have her kid


He just kidnapped a handicapped kid with the goal of throwing her down a steep hill. When confronted, his response is to walk away claiming it was a joke. That's not even remotely a believable character.

Once it gets into the meat of the story things pick up a bit... but then there's always some odd choice that takes me out of it again...


Quoted Text
HOMELESS MAN
He will collect, if you don’t show.

MARIA
But how will he know...?

HOMELESS MAN
Where you live? Render will know.
And his butcher will take it.


The last thing I was wondering is how would an evil, magical creature find this woman's house. A normal human loan shark could probably find where she lives.

I dunno, the writing overall is not bad at all. Perhaps this was simply rushed and you ran out of time. It's a good concept and the mother-daughter relationship is skillfully established.



That rug really tied the room together.
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EWall433
Posted: October 17th, 2016, 4:36pm Report to Moderator
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I like this one a lot. I could kinda see where it was going, but wasn't quite sure how it would get there. I'll echo the other comments in that it seemed like the Mother knew too fast and too easily what the situation was. It seems she found the contract and decided, in a very short amount of time, that she had to cut her own face off. There's so many steps between finding that contract and cutting off one’s own face that it's awkward to reconstruct exactly what was going through Mother’s head to convince her to do something that extreme. In some ways, she's lucky the contract wasn't just some random bit of nonsense Milly printed out on the internet.

I think to really sell this you have to give us a clue that Mother is somehow already aware of Render Stillskin. Perhaps she warns Milly away from the shop herself. Maybe Mother could even share a subtle moment with the Homeless Man that suggests that she, him and Render Stillskin have some sort of shared history. This would make it much easier to buy that Mother knows exactly what to do when she finds the contract.

My second big note is that I think you should cut out the part where Mother saves the day with the hooligans. Not necessarily the whole scene, but the part where she turns into Rambo with a syringe is too strong for the character at that early stage. I think you wanted to show that, despite her addiction she really cares about her daughter, but it might serve Mother’s arc better to leave that an open question until the final image. She can SAY she’d do anything for her daughter, but until she really shows it by cutting her own face off, I think the audience should be allowed to doubt Mother’s intentions. I think that could strengthen the final image because now it's not just a horrific occurrence, but it's a confirmation of the love Milly doubted was there. But for that to work Mother needs to be failing pretty decisively right up to her final moment of redemption.

All things considered though, this was really strong and I suspect will remain one of my favorite.
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Stumpzian
Posted: October 18th, 2016, 4:33pm Report to Moderator
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I certainly like the idea but think the script would benefit from a revamp.
1. Get rid of the thug scene.
2. Focus on heightening Maria's feeling of complete desperation so that it's believable that she (a 10-year-old!) would consider cutting off her own face.
3. Don't telegraph the end. The contract says "or suitable substitute," which is enough. Repeating the line (p. 7) draws too much attention and tells us what's likely to happen.
4. Trim out explanatory descriptions of the mother -- "a junkie in need of a fix," "monkey on her back," etc. Showing her in the bathroom stall, her physical reactions, and behavior is sufficient.
5. Clean up problem slugs (eg. "mcdonald's or somewhere").

The upshot -- potential for a great story here.







Revision History (1 edits)
Stumpzian  -  October 18th, 2016, 4:45pm
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PrussianMosby
Posted: October 19th, 2016, 7:15pm Report to Moderator
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Why did the clerk from the pawnshop send her to Stealskin? There's no reason.

Writer, I'm at page 8 and I love that kid now. You won't do something to her now, right??? I might have a heart attack.

BATHROOM SCENE – you must be kidding

So Maria believes she needs to scrape off her face because a homeless man and a crazy shop man say so ------------------------TWIST

and grand finale.

Aaaaah, my nerves. Pure torture to see that adorable character in danger. Pure torture. I'm all run down, give me a break….

There are some flaws you may see from my notes. I'm just… that kind of possible fall of Maria was too crazy, an extremely emotionally challenge full of endless suspense for me…

CHAPEAU

… and send me some compensation soon No really……….



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Cameron
Posted: October 20th, 2016, 12:53am Report to Moderator
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The writing was solid here.

I liked the story with the junkie mother as an addition, it brought more sympathy to the kid than she already had.

Not sure about the necessity of the thugs, that kinda worked I guess to show the mother's love for her daughter, but I reckon you could cut them, or at least alter them so Stiltskin gets some more time.

Anyway, I liked it, a consider for me
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KevinX
Posted: October 20th, 2016, 1:31pm Report to Moderator
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Hello! Hello!

I should start by saying I really enjoyed reading your script. It's solidly and stylistically written and you put more than enough fun twist and turn there. You also have an interesting premise and I can see you executed it pretty well. The part where the homeless man told her the real meaning of Render Stillskin's name actually gave me goosebumps. The ending felt a bit abrupt, but to be fair, you got a maximum of only 10 pages.

I suggest you consider turning this into a feature, you got a quite strong idea here. Good job! I'll definitely give it a recommend!

Best,
Kevin
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irish eyes
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I enjoyed this script.

Certainly had the creep factor going, not too sure why mom had her face removed... maybe figuring out her life ain't worth shit with the drugs and given her daughter a better chance.

Good job overall


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nawazm11
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A nice little script, but the story felt choppy at parts. Almost as if it didn't have time to milk out the current moment and wanted to get to the next part. There's a lack of dialogue and explanation here which I can only assume was cut to fit the 10 pages exactly. It's noticeable, and makes the script feel constricted and the story hard to navigate through. The idea is good, and sacrifice at the end works well in theory -- but on the page, there's a genuine lack of care for the reader because it all feels very rough and just...shrunk down.

I do appreciate this, and I think it can be a very good script if given more care and pages, but as it stands right now, it doesn't quite hit the mark, although it's a very respectable effort.
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2016, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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I agree with the others that the thug scene is an unnecessary complication. If the goal is to show the bond between mother and daughter, but in a way that shows the mother's drug addiction is threatening her own mothering instincts, there has to be a simpler way to do it. Maybe it would be best to just begin with the mom taking them to pawn shops, where they pawn personal items such as jewelry, and where the mother tries to sell the daughter's portraits. And there the pawn shop clerk slips the daughter Render's business card.

Shortening the opening scene to this might create one or two extra pages of space, which could be used to make the ending more clear. It's tricky no matter what, because you want the reader to worry that the girl will cut her own face, and if we know the mother has learned about Render's contract, we might see too early where it's going,

It doesn't work very well as is, but thank's for playing!
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Pale Yellow
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Love this one. I think I like the little stillskin character more than any of them Does that make me evil?? The writing is solid here. I like the way the writer sets up the bond between mother and daughter yet shows us their huge obstacles: the girl with her wheelchair and the mother with her addiction, and together their need for money to keep going. GREAT job writer. Not many of the scripts in this owc and past take the care to set up characters like this.

Maybe as mentioned the thug scene could be changed. I'm not sure how. It does establish that the addiction cause the mother to put her daughter in jeopardy. I was really pissed at the mom through this until the end when she gives her own face for the girl...I love the irony in that although the end does confuse a bit at first I guess.

GREAT job. Recommend from me.
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ChrisBodily
Posted: October 23rd, 2016, 11:56pm Report to Moderator
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The script says you're Big Bad Woof, but Don says you're Big Bad Wolf.


Quoted Text
Address

Over the river and through the woods.


To Grandmother's house we go? Stay away from her, you Big Bad Wolf. Ha!

Bold slugs. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. They're not officially industry standard, but they have their fans.


Quoted Text
INT. PUBLIC BATHROOM(MCDONALD[']S OR SOMETHING) - DAY


It's your job; you decide. You're the writer.


Quoted Text
But she fights it, lowering her head and sobbing instead.


Was that rhyme intentional?

Ugh, do something, Mom!


Quoted Text
MOTHER (O.S.)
Let her go!


What took you so long?

Visibly (filmably) bored?


Quoted Text
Mom, still in need of a fix, is sweating profusely.


Too passive. Change it to one of these:


Quoted Text
Mom, still in need of a fix, sweats profusely.


Or


Quoted Text
Mom, still in need of a fix, is (covered/drenched/etc.) in sweat.



Quoted Text
Fighting the monkey on her back


I'd change this, unless she's literally fighting a monkey on her back, lol. Keep figures of speech in action to a bare minimum, unless it's unquestionably understood. "Raining cats and dogs" and "screams bloody murder" are fine. "Fighting the monkey" is pushing it.

"We" shouldn't be part of the story. Keep "us" out of screenplays.

What happened to the rent? We can take a damn good guess; no need to spell it out in an aside.

Dusk is sometimes acceptable, but try to stick to day and night.


Quoted Text
He slides her a business card:
�Render Stillskin: collector - 10 Grim St.�


Nice Easter egg. Genius!

Not sure "Continuous" is necessary.

This isn't the Slenderman, is it?

Wait, is Donald Trump the slender man?


Quoted Text
RENDER
Tomorrow morning, you sign now,
tomorrow enough time.


I agree. Tomorrow. To be continued. I kinda like it so far. You could've cut the thug scene; doesn't really add anything.

I'm back. Finished the whole thing. Very good. Nice visuals, horror, villain, and stakes.

Recommend! A+


FADE IN:

Revision History (1 edits)
ChrisBodily  -  October 24th, 2016, 1:39pm
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James McClung
Posted: October 24th, 2016, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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Mixed feelings about this one.

I think while it falls short on fully living up to the source material, which features a pretty involved narrative if you think about it, I think the premise here is more or less strong. You've come up with some fittingly creepy imagery to go along with it as well. I dug the look of Render's shop with all the mannequins around, which coupled well with the flaying motif and the hooded victims. I also appreciated the theme of art and creation within such an ugly landscape.

At the same time, it's much more melodramatic than it needs to be. The wheelchair doesn't really play into the central plot at all and seems like little more than an easy way to gain sympathy from the reader. It *does* play into the encounter with the bullies, but I have similar issues with that scene as have been mentioned before in previous comments. I've also read too many scripts with junkies crying as they shoot up. Why not mix it up and have the mom drop her junk on the floor or something and abandon it as a lost cause instead of her less believable, less nuanced "fighting" it?

Additionally, some of the writing, especially the dialogue, is a little clunky. Render's sing-songy speech is especially problematic, as I actually had to reread the scene once or twice to figure out what exactly the characters had agreed upon in their deal. Other dialogue simply detracts from the overall scariness by being too on-the-nose, such as the homeless man telling Maria outright that Render skins people instead of just letting the image speak for itself. I also had to reread the ending with Maria removing her face to figure out what had happened.

I think this would benefit from tightening up some of the writing and striking a balance between too much and too little, whether that be in elements of tone, such as the rampant melodrama, or clarity, such as the stumbling blocks inherent in Render's dialogue. I think this would entail a handful of rewrites, as opposed to just one. Good job entering in any case. I couldn't get myself together in time, so I expect I owe that much to all writers.


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c m hall
Posted: October 24th, 2016, 5:41pm Report to Moderator
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Very good script.  Forget logic, the story makes sense when considered through the eyes of a ten year old girl. Her fear, the loss of her mother, directs all action and eventually must be confronted.  A child uses all of her talent and strength, heroically, endangering herself, and fails... But she survives because, unexpectedly, someone warns her and someone takes the terrible punishment for her.
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Nomad
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A+ for the story.

D for the execution.

I like the whole 'pound of flesh' aspect of this, but everything from the unrealistic thugs, to the faceless guy outside the shop detracted from what it could have been.

With a little tweaking this could be a creepy tale.

Jordan


Read my scripts here:
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leitskev
Posted: October 31st, 2016, 6:47pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for reading, everyone, very instructive notes! If I have not got to yours yet, and you reviewed mine, I will get to it soon.

Most people are in agreement that my opening scene needs to go, a pretty strong indication it does. I think it does overcomplicate the story. I wanted to show the bond between the mother and daughter, despite the mother's troubled mothering because of her heroin addiction. I think I threw some people off by calling the boys thugs. This is not Boyz in the Hood. The kids are really just bullies that you could find anywhere. But I think a simpler scene should have been found to display the complicated mother/daughter bond.

The "rules" I broke in the writing I did so knowingly, and though a degree of playful antagonism with some readers was the goal, the methods used were also logical. For example, the slug "McDonald's bathroom or something similar". Someone filming a short would understand: use what's available to you,..Dunkin Donuts, a local tavern, a gas station. It's a somewhat dirty public bathroom in a city. Creating the slug this was cures the director that he can use anything similar. McDonalds is not necessary. Merely saying a "dirty public bathroom" does not convey the right image.

The aside was used for clarity sake. It added no lines, if I remember. Clarity trumps rules like rock beats scissors. If I had a nickel for every time someone read something in a script that was written perfectly clear and they still missed it...I'd have a lot of nickels.

And there is no rule that says you can't switch from "mom" to "mother". Does it make it less clear? If not, it's not a problem. In normal writing, varying things up is desirable. It really doesn't make much difference here. I didn't want to keep saying Mother.

Thanks for reading, fun to enter, I look forward to the next one!
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PrussianMosby
Posted: October 31st, 2016, 8:29pm Report to Moderator
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Oh, it's yours Kevin, and now that the names are revealed, I eventually know who exactly you are, KevinL from the old days. Great to see you back here. Your entry was my clear favorite.

Quoted from leitskev
Most people are in agreement that my opening scene needs to go, a pretty strong indication it does.

I feared the writer would say that. From a dramaturgic sight, I found the "thugz-scene" perfectly well to 1. establish the dark world and dangerous people within and 2. to eventually bring in some action and movement from the start.

I don't know if I read too much into the script but your whole world there, wasn't the real world in my eyes. It was more a fictional, darker edition of today, almost a lost society, with few good. As I saw it, this place is all dirty inside and out; a bad over-pictured habitat where there's no hope for its citizens. Everybody living there, is either helpless as the bum, Maria and her mother, or they are ruthless figures as the thugs and Stillsken.

I'm more used to other genres, and you definitely reminded me of the power of characters. I'm not sure if there's something bigger than characters in storytelling. Great work.



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leitskev
Posted: October 31st, 2016, 9:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Moseby,

You share the same vision regarding the world. It's set in the present, but because of the magic, I saw it as tinged with fantasy, so almost a Gotham-like world.

My goal with the opening was to show that the mother is jeopardizing the daughter because of her drug habit, but she would do anything for her also. So I wanted to show her standing up for her against the thugs. But it probably was a little too much. I should have tried to think of something more subtle.

The end was unclear to some, but I didn't want to give away the game too early. I wanted people to worry that Maria would cut her own face off.

It's a flawed story, but I had fun trying!
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DanC
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 1:26pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Kevin
     Not bad.  A few things:
1.  As the others said, you have to tell us where everyone is at all times.  Saying McDonalds' or something doesn't cut it.

2.  Name the thugs or don't.  Don't name a few in the way you did b/c it makes you look lazy.  

3.  Instead of unfilmables like "We know she isn't"  show us that she isn't.  The old saying show, don't tell.

4.  I don't buy the mom's sacrifice.  I don't buy how Maria got to see Rumple.  I don't buy the homeless guy.

I mean, if your face is cut off, you pretty much die.  So, how are they living after this?

Not bad, it does have some good stuff in it.  

Tighten it up a bit.

Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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leitskev
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 1:54pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Dan, thanks for your comments.

I broke these "rules" with a reason beyond the desire of tweaking rules people.

Let's say you're looking for scripts to shoot a short film. How can I the writer know where you will be shooting, what bathrooms you will have access to? By writing it this way, the director knows that there is no reason it has to be McDonalds, it just has to be something similar,

Naming any more thugs than necessary would be tedious for the reader. If I said the bus was full of travelers, would you want to read all of their names? When I first wrote this, I actually named THUG 1, THUG 2, THUG 3. But I quickly gave them descriptive names. Because it is easier for the reader to track.

It's all about the reader, not arbitrary rules that don't really exist anyway.

Same with unfilmables. Sprinkled in, they serve a purpose in clarifying the story. Used in this way they do no harm, except to offend people who have been taught these strict rules, which don't exist in the industry, they only exist for people that make a living teaching screenwriting.

Please don't think I am being ungrateful. Because I appreciate your comments on the story itself, and I agree those things are all big problems. You are correct about the face cutting. I saw this story as having a bit of dark magic, not quite real world. But I really couldn't pull most of these things off in the story. It's a very flawed story, but I wanted to participate in the OWC, this was the best I could come up with. I had fun!

Again, thanks. Consider my comments on arbitrary rules, and maybe you'll decide some of the rules you follow are worth breaking at times. It's about making things as clear to the reader as possible in a way which allows the story to flow as smoothly as it can. Rules are meant as rules of thumb to help guide that...they are not meant as a kind of catechism. Give it some thought in your next work! Happy Friday.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 2:16pm Report to Moderator
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Oh man, Kevin...Kevin...KEVIN!!!

I'm not going to count how many times you used the word "rules" once again, but let's just say A HELL OF A LOT!!!!!

Dude...my brother...let it go.  You'll feel so good once you do...I promise!

One comment on something Dan brought up, that I did as well.  And, yes, I've read both of your posts on why you did this, but totally disagree and think it just comes across downright goofy and dumb.

The McDonald's thing.  You've said twice now that you did this so a Director or whatever would understand that it doesn't have to be specifically "McDonald's"...it could be any such place.  But, bro, c'mon...isn't it as obvious as anything could be that it could be anywhere?  Really?  Why would anyone think it MUST be shot at a McDonald's?  It has absolutely nothing to do with anything here.  You get me?

Finally, along those same lines, just because a script/story takes place (in the script) in a certain state/city/country/whatever, does not mean it has to be filmed in the same place.  Many, MANY high budget movies do this all the time, and no one knows...until it's revealed on IMDB or the like.

So, the moral of this story is to write your script the way you see it.  Set it exactly where you want it set.  Be specific...be exact.  If the powers that be that buy/shoot your script choose to set it or film it somewhere else, so be it.  It doesn't matter.

Peace out.
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leitskev
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 2:48pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff, you do understand that every time, when you review a script, you say something is "not correct", you are invoking a rule, right?

When I say "McDonalds or someplace similar", it conveys what I want in the clearest way.

It doesn't have to be Mc Donalds

But it is someplace similar.

In a different story, the McDonalds location could be essential to the story. Maybe there's a Ronald McDonald clown that pops in. Maybe there will be crispy french fries later!

But in this story, it can be any similar bathroom. IHOP, Dunkin's, Hooters.

Why not just describe a dirty bathroom?

Well, McDonalds bathrooms are not that dirty, but they're not exactly the Ritz. Not that I've ever shat in the Ritz! The important thing is that McDonalds conveys the image in the simplest and most visual way.

And there is simply no reason NOT to do it this way. Can you cite a reason other than saying it's not correct?

I've never used a slug like this before, and obviously I did it to have a little fun with you in particular. Mission accomplished! But I do see nothing wrong with it other than it doesn't look professional, which is the only reason I would not nornally use it.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 4:37pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin, my fine feathered friend, when I say something is not correct or something is awkward, etc, it has nothing to do with these rules you love speaking of...unless you feel that everything that is right and wrong is governed by rules.

If someone writes a Slug like..."INT CLOSET - BEDROOM - HOUSE", I'll say that's wrong, because it only makes sense that you start with the largest "thing" and go down from there.  I'm not citing any rule.

If someone writes, "He sure didn't see that coming!", I'll say that's a mistake because it's a complete waste of space and takes me out of the read.

If someone writes, "INT MCDONALD'S OR ARBY'S OR BURGER KING OR WENDY'S OR JACK IN THE BOX", I'll say that's really dumb - which one is it, because you're the writer and only you know.  Just tell me which fucking fast food shithouse they're in.

C'mon, MAN!!!  
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DavidBlack
Posted: November 11th, 2016, 10:52pm Report to Moderator
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FAST FOOD RESTAURANT would probably suffice?
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Pale Yellow
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 6:28am Report to Moderator
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IF I was going to film this, I would rather the writer not call the exact restaurant but with his slug I would know what type he wanted the scene set in. I think it is perfectly fine the way it was written in the slug. If all writers would just film something they would understand that a lot of these rules and things writers have a problem with mean nothing at all when it comes to shooting the script. THE STORY....the STORY....THE STORY.
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leitskev
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 8:26am Report to Moderator
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Jeff, when you say something is not correct, you are generally citing a rule. For example, let's say we begin with a courtroom scene. The defense is questioning a witness. The prosecutor objects to a question. The judge overrules it.

If the script introduces the character JUDGE in the sentence after his first dialog, you would say this is not correct.

But other than some sense that this is a rule, there is no reason one can't do this.  Normally we intro the characters before any dialog, but there are times we might choose not to, usually to improve narrative flow.

For example, in the court scene, there are many characters: the bailiff, the judge, the jury, the lawyers, the spectators, the clerk, the stenographer, court reporters, the accused, witnesses. Obviously it would be tedious to intro them all. Even you wouldn't do that.

So let's say the heart of the scene is the defense attorney questioning the witness. And you achieve some dialog flow with that. Stopping to introduce the judge might...might...interrupt the flow. Why would you do it then?

Let me try to concoct an example.

MR. BUSH, the defense attorney, handsome in a way that only his mother could appreciate, towered over the witness on the stand, DUSTIN.

BUSH: "So you admit you know nothing about sharks?"

DUSTIN: "I've watched the Discovery Channel."

BUSH: "But you've never been in the water with one."

DUSTIN: "I've played eight ball with a couple."

The spectators laugh.

BUSH: "Have you ever been in a small boat?"

DUSTIN: "I've had a full boat."

BUSH: "Did you win the hand?"

The PROSECUTOR, her long legs distracting the jury, shifts in her seat.

PROSECUTOR: "I object."

JUDGE: "Sustained."

JUDGE STEVIE seems like his mind is on his afternoon tennis match.


There is no reason to call this "incorrect" other than some unwritten rule. It's a trial, we know there is a judge present, just as there are jurors and reporters etc, So it's not like the judge materialized out of thin air when he spoke.

The example above is not the best example, but I have seen situations where you just don't want to interrupt the dialog to pause foe a character introduction. Why should a rule...which is the only reason...force you to interrupt the dialog?
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 10:33am Report to Moderator
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Kevin, your example is a bit redonkulous and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Sure, it's funny using these characters and the banter relating to old "fights" here on SS, but let's take a step back for a moment.

This scene wouldn't just pop up in a script, like it does in your example.  It would be "set up" properly, hopefully, and that's the whole point.

You wouldn't wait to intro a central character, like Judge Stevie until he speaks, because that is a definite mistake.

There would be no disruption to flow, if properly set up, because all characters involved in the scene would get a proper intro before they started speaking or interacting with other characters.

Now, if you can't find a way to "properly" do that, it's your issue, and your writing will suffer for it.  No way around that.
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leitskev
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 11:33am Report to Moderator
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Obviously it's a hastily put together example, but why is it a mistake? Because of a rule? We know the judge is present.

What is "properly" set up?

This is the stuff that leads you down the wrong path. There is no such thing as "properly". This isn't computer code.

These are stories! They are spec scripts. Their purpose is the make a reader think they will make a good film. The first and most important imperative in that process is bringing a reader INTO THE STORY.

Nothing else really matters.

Which is why I say that you would not bother to list all of the characters in the court room. Nor would you describe the curtains, the light fixtures, the graffiti on the benches in the back, the cobweb in the corner, the run on the stenographer's stocking. Unless these things enhanced the experience of reading the story.

In this case, the heart of the drama is Bush questioning Dustin, The spot light is on that.

Everything else recedes into the background. Anything that takes our eye off the central drama is a handicap that waters down that drama, distracts us from it.

If the judge is a minor character, we wouldn't give him 4 lines of description, would we? Because it's a distraction.

The idea is to always focus on the central drama. Bring us into that as QUICKLY as possible. HOLD us with the rhythm of the dialog. Try not to distract us with things outside of that central drama.

You don't seem to understand because of these notions of "properly" and "correct". I'm only trying to provoke you to think outside the box.

There should be a central drama taking place in the scene.
Something with tension, intrigue, maybe humor.
Bring us into it as quickly as possible.
That's why you don't spend a page describing detail of the room.
You'll lose the reader.
Only include the essentials.
And for the same reason, don't interrupt the rhythm of the dialog.
All that matters is bringing the reader into the essential drama of the scene...
and holding his interest.
The rest is window dressing and no more than necessary should be used,
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 12:04pm Report to Moderator
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No more than necessary should be used.

CORRECT!

But...and this is what you continue to leave out, there are necessary things that SHOULD NOT be left out.

Every person in a scene does not have to be noted if they are not integral to the scene/story/plot.  That's common sense.

The color of whatever in the room or the clothes peeps are wearing should not be noted unless it matters in some way.  Again, common sense.

Note the theme here?  It's using common sense.  It has nothing to do with any rules.

Where do rules come from, anyways?  Well...if you stick to the theme here, you'll answer correctly.  They come from common sense.

Here's a quick example that's off topic...

My girlfriend, Teri, hates rules.  She despises rules of any kind and actually will usually do the opposite of whatever "rule" that's in place, because she hates being told what to do, and I guess is just a rebel at heart.

She always travels 10+ miles over the speed limit.  She doesn't use her blinker when she "should".  She doesn't get it, because it's not about the rules or laws, in this situation - it's about doing what's right or what's OK.

If you're one a few cars on a lonely mostly straight road, you can go as fast as you want safely and you're only concern will be if a cop happens to be waiting for you.  If you're going to run off the road, you rally don't need to use a blinker, because no one is there to see it...so it doesn't matter.

But, if you're on a busy street, where cars are exiting and entering at frequent intersections, your speed is important, as are your blinkers...not just for you, but for everyone around you.

Don't worry about rules, brother.  Worry about what's right, what makes sense, and why it's right.  That's what matters and that's what counts, and that's why I will always point out mistakes, and if necessary, why it's a mistake.
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leitskev
Posted: November 12th, 2016, 1:39pm Report to Moderator
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Ok, now we're getting somewhere. You're about to finally have that breakthrough, you just don't know it. Push, push, push.

Yes...it is about what is NECESSARY.

But NOT for the CONSTRUCTION of the scene!

This is not a blueprint.

Sell the hamburger, not the hamburg.

Here's the thing: it's all about what is necessary to the CENTRAL DRAMA of the scene.

It is about what is necessary to bringing a reader into the STORY.

That's why you don't include unnecessary details.

That's why you minimize description of unimportant characters.

And here's the thing: a set up takes up space, and the reader's time. And you are not afforded much of that.

Compare two book forms: the thriler, and the literary piece. In the literary piece, you have the luxury of long ponderous set ups. You can wander through the scenery and wax poetic about the world and paint the character right down to his phobias.

In a thriller, you have to bring the reader into the story from the very first words. Later, once you've brought them in, you can explore character and scenery if you want. But you must reach off the page,  grab the reader kicking and screaming, and pull them into the narrative.

THAT is the type of writing you want in a SPECULATIVE screenplay. When the first words begin, the car engine is revving, and soon we're off to the races.

Description gets in the way of this narrative focus. It's a necessary evil, but it gets in the way of the story. The less you let it do that, the better.

That's the ONLY rule. Grab the reader and hold him.

Frankly, in the example I used above, I wouldn't even have a probem if the judge was never introduced. I wouldn't do that myself, people look at these and do character counts, but in theory in a spec script it would really be no problem. Same with a bartender taking your character's order. The only reason people care about this stuff is because of convention.

Jeff, there is a new movie with Amy Adams coming out, some alien thing. I read yesterday it was based on a short story. And this is increasingly the case...feature films that began as short prose.

Directors and producers are looking for STORIES. Whatever makes those stories read better is preferable. Stories that have rhythm and which keep the spotlight on the central argument read much better.
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DanC
Posted: November 13th, 2016, 2:45am Report to Moderator
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I want to add something:

Jeff's right in that some of the rules don't have to be that specific.

You saying it doesn't have to be McDonalds isn't needed.  You have no idea how many times that a location producer will get something and pretend it is something else.

In Die Hard, they say it takes place at one airport, yet, if you look closely, you can see signs for a different airport.  People do that all the time.

Unless you have specific landmarks, things will get shot anywhere.  Part of the new Ninja Turtles movie was shot here in Buffalo.  They passed it off as NYC I think.  

So, please relax on certain rules like locations.  I can guarantee you that if you write a story that takes place in a ranch house and all the director has to use is a split-level, than it now gets shot in the split-level.

The slugs are a guideline, not a fast hard rule.  There are literally thousands of things that have been shot at different times and places than was listed.

All they would do anyways is IF they got the okay to shoot at a McDonalds is do an establishing shot of the entrance of a McDonalds followed by a cut to the bathroom.  Unless your action was to have us follow the actress as she walks into it, then go to the bathroom as one continuous shot, than any bathroom that is set up for business can be used.  

Hope that makes sense.

Dan


Please read my scripts:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-series/m-1427564706/

I'm interested in reading animation, horror, sci fy, suspense, fantasy, and anything that is good.  I enjoy writing the same.  Looking to team with anyone!

Thanks
Dan
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leitskev
Posted: November 13th, 2016, 8:29am Report to Moderator
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Hey, Dan, thanks.

My point is that it's not a problem to write it that way. It would not bother directors or producers. They'd barely notice. Some might even prefer it.

The ONLY people that slug would bother are other writers. More specifically, non-professional writers.

They only people who would even notice it or debate at are other non-professional writers...like us.

That fact alone tells us something. Or should.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 13th, 2016, 12:00pm Report to Moderator
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INT HOUSE/SHACK/CABIN/BUILDING/GARAGE/FAST FOOD RESTAURANT/STORE/ETC. - SOMETIME IN THE DAY OR NIGHT

The man, who is somewhere between 34 and 57, kind of big, but doesn't have to be, or could be on the small side, walks or runs, it really doesn't matter, as he could actually even crawl, if his legs are sore, through one of the rooms in this building (could be a kitchen or bathroom, or even bedroom).

Then the man looks at something on a wall, ceiling, or even floor (it could be anything, including a mouse, bug, stain from vomit, or junk/trash.
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