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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    October, 2010 One Week Challenge  ›  Condemned - OWC
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  Author    Condemned - OWC  (currently 6200 views)
ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: October 24th, 2010, 2:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW

"NIGHTFALL," in the third part of your first three sluglines.  Do you make it a habit of doing that?
If the scene actually does appear after the sun goes down, dusk, and it's about to be night how would I better slug that? Gracias!


Yea, I've seen it in other scripts but to be honest the camera only recognizes DAY/NIGHT.

Personally, I wouldn't slug it.  If it were me... I'd include it in the action line.  These are all examples of what I do.

EXT.  BOSTON - DAY

Dawn breaks  or The break of dawn.  Or even Wee hours of the morning.

EXT.  MIAMI - NIGHT

Dusk... or Dusk falls.  The sunsets over, Blah...blah...  Late evening... early evening... you get the picture.

But this is just Ghost.  It's your script... so fair enough.

Good Luck

Ghostwriter


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Coding Herman
Posted: October 24th, 2010, 5:51pm Report to Moderator
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I'm sorry, Ray. I tried my best to finish it, but I can't. I think the main problem is your writing and your story structure.

You over-describe a lot of things that are already implied in a few words. Like the wind howl, something jingles, clings, clatters, the floor creaks and more. You don't need all these details. None of these descriptions moved the story forward. Instead, it just made the page looks black and crowded.

I stopped at page 6 and I didn't really understand what's going on so far. The story moves at a very slow pace, it's like nothing happened for the first five pages except for George trying to get Liz's attention. Part of the reason why goes back to your over-description, which slows things down.

I think this could've been cut down to 5 or 6 pages.

I can see you put in a lot of effort in it though.

Herman


FEATURE:

Memwipe
- Sci-Fi, Action, Thriller (114 pages) - In a world where memories can be erased by request, a Memory Erasing Specialist desperately searches for the culprit when his wife becomes a target for erasure -- with his former colleagues hot on his trail.
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Baltis.
Posted: October 24th, 2010, 7:53pm Report to Moderator
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Lots of things to address here, and I'm finally finishing up the OWC entries by the way.  I had to take a break away from abandon houses and wheelchairs.  Sorry, folks.

Anyways, I don't like how you bold the headers and character cues.  It just reads sluggy.  There are several instances here where you border on overwriting and then wrangle it back in to acceptable.  It's hard for me to say if it's intentional or not.  I'm not saying it doesn't read.  It does.  It's just not as orthodox as it could be, I guess.

The story is often weighted down by the presentation and I think you tend to be a very organized dude.  Your post and reviews are always very well laid out and I think you let that bleed over into your writing.  I get the feeling you're from a very heavy business, office back ground.  Maybe I'm wrong... But I think it could hinder your screenwriting.

But, with all that said, I didn't not enjoy this one.  It just took more time to get through it.  I felt overwhelmed when I opened it and flipped through it because of the weighty exposition housed within.  I got through it, though.  
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c m hall
Posted: October 25th, 2010, 1:07pm Report to Moderator
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There's no lack of atmosphere in this script, that's for sure.  
Since so much of the story rests on George I think you have to work on his dialogue -- everything he says to the other characters needs to retain the highly charged mix of tension and exhausted patience that you've created and somehow convey more information -- the more actual conversation between Liz and George that you give us, the more we can feel the urgency of their plight.

SPOILERS
I think the scene with Ben and the intestines is terrific.

Anyway, vivid writing, lots of potential for an amazing script.
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RayW
Posted: October 27th, 2010, 10:56pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you, folks for your reads and RE-plies!

Ghostwriter -
Gracias.
Makes sense. I think I'll just do what you've suggested in the future.

Herman -
Couldn't finish it?! Page 6?! Ugh!
You recall how I was getting dinged on Lapse for being to dry or sparse?
I think with the iScripts "read out loud" I went hog wild with the sounds and in fact biased this deliberately towards a novelistic approach.

I'll re-write and submit the 1% fat version late next week, and if anyone's brave enough to try the "Condemned Lite" version I'd appreciate the feedback.
Looks like this one was woolly enough to scare off most of the forest animals!

Baltis -
Definitely understood about needing to take a break from all this. Did it myself.

Sorry about the bold slugs and characters.
I may keep the bold slugs and leave the characters as plain going forward.
As I just stated to Herman, the iScript "read" brought a dimension to this challenge I otherwise would have not included.
I can be flexible to the point of annoyance for those accustomed to predictable rigidity.

"I get the feeling you're from a very heavy business, office back ground.  Maybe I'm wrong... But I think it could hinder your screenwriting."
Umm... nope. You pretty much nailed this on the head.
I'm often responsible for the establishment of departmental policy, customer service and new hire training & orientation.
I am required know my sh!t inside out and backwards - and can explain it to any demographic.
Document my @ss out of a lawsuit.

My "director's" approach is killing me at writing these screenplays as I can keep track of waaaaay too much of the wrong stuff required, to the obvious point of distraction. Not good. At all.
Working on it.
Nice pick up, BTW.

Be brave and give "Condemned Lite" a try in a few weeks. Please.

Catherine -
"There's no lack of atmosphere in this script, that's for sure."  
You're so funny.  
Yeah. I got that shhhhstuff dripping on ya, don't I? Sorry about that.  
Re: George's conversations - Yep. Right on board with ya.
Will fix on the re-write.


Thank you, everybody!




Tim -
You seem to think that you are writing for a director, but you aren't. Just tell the damn story and leave out all the bulls*** .
But you gotta learn how to be economical with your words.
People aren't impressed by a writer who uses lots of big words and tries to impose himself onto the story.

You have a wee more (what is a plain word for "vitriol"?) hostility in your review than is required, but likewise, I'll force myself to make it through the end.

Will you please apply your economy of words to a single line that displeased you that would better tell the d@mn story by removing the bullsh!t from it?
Thank you.

I'm not trying to impress anyone or impose anything. Ugh!
If there are tools in the tool box that get the job done I use them.
I am not accustomed to using pliars when I know a ratchet and socket are a better tool.
Same thing.
Nowhere in any screenplay format information or reviews have I ever run across "Don't use 'fancy' words. It hurts people."  
It's a first to me.
I'm learning how low the bar is.
I done got it and appreciate your support of this perspective.  

Cheers




Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
RayW  -  October 30th, 2010, 9:17am
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Trojan
Posted: October 28th, 2010, 9:04am Report to Moderator
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This was a real struggle to get through. I wanted to give up on page 2 but forced myself to make it through the end. You really need to find a way to streamline your writing because there's no way anybody would read a feature if written in a similar manner. You seem to think that you are writing for a director, but you aren't. Just tell the damn story and leave out all the bullshit. If someone wants to direct it then you can cross the bridge of a shooting script later.

I think you need to get your hands on some spec screenplays and see how they are written. Don't read any shooting scripts at all as it is obviously giving you bad habits. Page 7 is possibly the single worst page of a script I have ever read. I'm not kidding.

As for the story, I don't really know what's going on to be honest. The way this is written took me out of the story and I started just skimming towards the end. Something about a vampire wanting his girl to possess the body of a guy in a wheelchair. Either him or some guy named Ben, who I don't really know who that is.

Anyway, it is what it is. It's only a short and a weeks work so no big deal. But you gotta learn how to be economical with your words. People aren't impressed by a writer who uses lots of big words and tries to impose himself onto the story. They are impressed by writers who tell a great story as simply as possible. The less a reader consciously notices your writing then the more you are succeeding.

Cheers,
Tim.
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RayW
Posted: November 2nd, 2010, 12:45am Report to Moderator
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Alrighty!

Story and dialog construct aside, I'm trying to get a handle on all of the flowery, woolly, novelization prose that's choking whatever half-baked story I have.

Will someone please be brave enough to provide continuing, objective feedback on the edited down version: Condemned - Lite

I edited out an entire page. From 10 to 9.

Anyone knowing that a few words and passages deleted from several segments knows that doesn't always mean losing a line.  
Sometimes you cut and the line count remains, so... Know going into this I cut more than 10%.

For those of you traumatized by the infamous "PAGE 7" debacle, I checked into both proper MONTAGE and SERIES OF SHOTS formats, the latter is more appropriate for passage of time.
http://www.screenwriting.info/14.php
http://www.storysense.com/format/montages.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12721428/Professional-Screenplay-Formatting-Guide
There are a few subjective ways this can be handled.
I went with the declaration of SERIES OF SHOTS followed by A)  B)  C), etc.

I removed all-caps sounds. (Most of them, at least.)

I deleted the EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

I dummied-down the vocabulary.

I didn't fool with the dialog or story much as I'm more interested on not getting slammed on  the flowery, woolly, novelization prose.

Thank you.  


And I'd like to thank Christopher Bohlsen (kurisuborosen) for bringing freepdfhosting.com to my attention.
I can have fun with this.  




Revision History (1 edits)
RayW  -  November 2nd, 2010, 12:57am
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Scoob
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Hi Ray,

Unfortunately I will have to agree with the majority on this one in that it was a bit of a slog to get through. I could never really get involved in the story. The way Liz's dialogue  was written came across a bit awkward.

On the plus side, I do think there were some good ideas here. The way George brings light and color with a touch of his hand for one thing. I thought the freeze frame scene on page 7 was a good idea just could have been executed better. The intestine eating came out of nowhere but it was quite fun. Still a little confused about who the heck Ben was and his role in the story.

On the "lite" version, it flows much better. However, I think there are still a few probs.
On page 3, "the man snaps his head back to George" why not just put Ed instead of the man?
I also discovered ( so I thought ) Ben was a ghost on this page. I can see how it might be difficult to name a character that you can't see and that doesn't speak. I think the rattles and moans work to a point. Although when George threatens to throw Ben into the portal/mirror this makes me rethink who or what Ben is.

I liked the mirror/portal idea with the spectre's hands and all. A Prince Of Darkness moment?

Page 5 and now I finally know who Ben is. I hope.
There is a new scene heading here and the first line is "He rattles the front door handle." Although I know it is George from the next line, I understand you should always name the character in this situation.

I have to be honest and admit I got a bit lost where in the farmhouse this whole scene is taking place. It says the front door but if he's already inside then why is he asking to enter? I think the heading should have been EXT. FARMHOUSE?

I think you should knock out "Before he strikes the wall" and "A moment later" and the "maybe" on Ben's description.
I liked Liz's reveal in the lightning on page 7.

The rest of the script played out fine.

I think the story is decent and after reading who Ben was meant to be, it all does make sense in the end. I think the original version may have been a little clustered. The rewrite does get to the meat a lot quicker and I think there is a nice visual horror story in here. I think your style of writing was a little different to what I have read so maybe my thoughts and confusions were down to adjusting to that.

All the best,

Malc



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James McClung
Posted: November 4th, 2010, 3:07pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Ray. It occurred to me that I owe you a few reads but didn't realize you had any shorts up until now; I tried to read your feature but I just couldn't. The main reason being your writing style requires me to do a lot of re-reading just to clarify what's going on. It's simultaneously too detailed and too sparse. For a short, it's no good but, at least, manageable. For a feature, it's just no good.

Anyway, I read both versions of this. Condemned and Condemned - Lite. I can safely say that your issue of clarity was fixed in the Lite version. I almost don't feel the need to go into your descriptions because whatever problems they had, you recognized and corrected them. So kudos.

That leaves the bread and butter of your script. Your story and your characters.

When you first made your appearance here, one of our first discussions was about horror. You admitted you're not exactly familiar with/keen on the stuff. Unfortunately, it shows here.

First off, you have a vampire script without any blood drinking. Without any vampirism, really. Fail. I mean... dude!

Other than that, it seems like you made an attempt to provide what one might expect from horror in such a way someone who's not into it would. As a result, it lacks pulse. The images are there and some were quite good. I liked the rattling chains, for example. But for the most part, they felt watered down and slightly hokey, like you weren't into it at all. Just wishy-washy. Liz's dialogue was particularly silly. They way you wrote it, I could here it in my head. And it sounded quite campy.

I'm not sure what to make of any of the dialogue, really. Didn't know what was going on a great deal of the time and everything was just said in such a cryptic and hokey way.

You also don't have much of a story here as far as I can tell. Your logline is an accurate description of what takes place, sure, but it's just a series of incidents as far as I can tell. Ed is a useless prop, for the most part. Serves very little purpose. There were some lines in which I had no idea what you were getting at (e.g. "Children?"). Everything just seemed all over the place, frankly.

Sorry, man. Didn't care for it.



Revision History (1 edits)
James McClung  -  November 4th, 2010, 4:07pm
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c m hall
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The new version is much better, the story isn't lost under the language.

SPOILERS

and a lot of opinion

Re: George
I suggest you remove the traces of "modern" language from his dialogue, although it's kind of amusing to hear him call Liz "honey" when she's just  a howling force, somehow I think something more 19th century like "my own true love" or some such would be more in keeping with character.  
The way I read George, he has dark powers but he keeps them under control, pretty much -- implication being that he has great strength of will; the little bursts of anger and impatience he shows have to be played with a lot of restraint.

"The Tempest" is one of my favorite plays and your character Ben has the same kind of brute/comic charm as Caliban.  Meant as great praise.
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Dreamscale
Posted: November 4th, 2010, 4:01pm Report to Moderator
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Ray, I did not read the new version, but here's something amazingly simple, that I think will actually really help...

Your selection of names seems very odd and out of place for this kind of piece and these type of characters.  Especially Ben.  I remember when I read this, I was just like, "WTF?  Ben?".  Same deal with George to a lesser extent.  Just doesn't sound like an age old vampire at all, and I think this simple "error" really brings the read down.

Hope that makes sense.

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RayW
Posted: November 4th, 2010, 11:52pm Report to Moderator
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Howdy, Guys!
Thank you for your bravery at taking a second crack at this.

Goodness, gracious.
Seems I made some progress.

Malc -
The way Liz's dialogue  was written came across a bit awkward
Should I have just written her dialog as plain talk and assume/hope the director and actors would have the sense to deliver it appropriately? As a ghost would?
On page 3, "the man snaps his head back to George" why not just put Ed instead of the man?
Typo/oversight on my behalf.  Same as for a few of the all capped sounds and exclamations I failed to remedy. That's all.
I can see how it might be difficult to name a character that you can't see and that doesn't speak. I think the rattles and moans work to a point. Although when George threatens to throw Ben into the portal/mirror this makes me rethink who or what Ben is.
You're not the only one identifying my failure in this regard, but for the life in me I can't see what's so difficult to understand that there is a guy (ghoul in this case, but that's not relevant) in the house that we can hear but cannot see and we meet him later.
To me it's simple.
But I've managed to confuse everyone that has brought it up.
I dunno, but it ain't good.
There is a new scene heading here and the first line is "He rattles the front door handle." Although I know it is George from the next line, I understand you should always name the character in this situation.
INT. COFFIN - NIGHT
George’s eyes flash open, he leaps up then vanishes.

INT. FARMHOUSE - NIGHT
He rattles the front door handle.

         GEORGE
    May I enter?

Not only did I follow "he" with George's name but I had immediately preceded it with his name and had started the story with a precedent of George needing to secure permission to enter the house.
The problem remains that if what I or we write isn't crystal clear to... 80% of the readers then we've buggered something, as I have here.
I'll figure out something shy of two talking heads in a box.  
It says the front door but if he's already inside then why is he asking to enter? I think the heading should have been EXT. FARMHOUSE?
Ah! Gotcha. Nope. I did it right. It's a half-glass door. Camera/audience is inside looking out through the door's glass at George on the outside jiggling the handle to get in.
Think:

... with a glass door.
Thank you, Malc.

James -
I am both impressed and pleased you remember those conversations from this summer when I first started out here.
It's simultaneously too detailed and too sparse.
My GOD! That's what's killing me.
It's not even a catch-22.
It's oxymoronic - and it keeps coming up with consistent frequency!
It's fantastically frustrating to me.
No one has verbalized/penned a sensible solution.
I dunno.
First off, you have a vampire script without any blood drinking. Without any vampirism, really. Fail. I mean... dude!
LOL! Yeah yeah yeah. Vampires suck blood.
Big whoop-tee-effin-doo.
I plead nolo.
While everyone else fawns over the sensationalism aspects of anything I consider the mundane practical stuff.
Humans have interracial relationships.
Why can't vampires?
Would they endure prejudice as well as some humans do?
Probably.
You can't really pick who you're going to fall in love with or even if it's a sensible arrangement to others.
Maybe Elizabeth wasn't always a ghost?
Maybe she used to be plain old human when George fell in love with her before some freaky thing happened to her?
Maybe George is responsible for her mortal death and feels guilt?
Maybe he fell in love with her as a ghost?
Who knows, who cares, doesn't matter, people are freaks. Why not Vampires and ghosts?
Not a fail.
I thought the absolute disregard for human life would be horrifying. Humans are just... commodities, like the food that we are.
But for the most part, they felt watered down and slightly hokey, like you weren't into it at all. Just wishy-washy.
Yeah, I don't like plotting and planning how to kill and torture people.
It's uncomfortably easy for me, so I kinda bunted on this with the Nightmare Before Christmas approach.
Liz's dialogue was particularly silly. They way you wrote it, I could here it in my head. And it sounded quite campy.
Hey, now! The poor girl has a speech disability.
You can't go running around telling Stephen Hawking he sounds silly and campy.  
Didn't know what was going on a great deal of the time and everything was just said in such a cryptic and hokey way.
I generally demand the audience fill in a lot of gaps.
Sometimes I'll spoon feed 'em, but usually I expect them to bring a lot to the table.
My scripts will or may suffer for that.
Ed is a useless prop, for the most part. Serves very little purpose.
Nah! George and Liz have already discussed that the house is being torn down soon.
Ghosts can't just float across the field and down the road.
They must inhabit a home or person - or semi-person, in Ben's case. Ha!
So, George, being the good boyfriend that he is, brought a person to his girl's place to move her @ss outta there.
He even picked out another place. One with a pretty view of the forest.
What a nice guy.
Ed... ? Ed's dead.
Ed's meat on a stick.
Ed's a tool.
Ed's a very important tool because he allows the parameters of Liz's limitations and capabilities to be established.
Not to mention a way to introduce Ben which in turn gets George back out of the house forcing him to find something that Liz wants: A baby.
Ghosts have wants, too.
Liz wants a baby.
That's why children make her sad. Sure, it's a furious temper tantrum sad, but still...
She wants one, too.
Sorry, man. Didn't care for it.
Fair enough. No harm. No foul.
When I review the 2009 best/worst movies I smile at the contradictions.
Thank you, James.

Catherine -
How are you? Don't get to read you as much as I'd like.
I like your wonky approaches to stories.
The new version is much better, the story isn't lost under the language.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I really am listening and trying.
I suggest you remove the traces of "modern" language from his dialogue, although it's kind of amusing to hear him call Liz "honey" when she's just  a howling force, somehow I think something more 19th century like "my own true love" or some such would be more in keeping with character.
Yep.  Funny you bring this up.
I had considered doing just that, but figured that as centuries change and languages change that a person or vampire's dialect would also change. So... there's that.
Thinking along the same lines. And that should be scary to you.
The way I read George, he has dark powers but he keeps them under control, pretty much -- implication being that he has great strength of will; the little bursts of anger and impatience he shows have to be played with a lot of restraint.
BINGO!
You are the only other reviewer that has expressed such an accurate comprehension of the character as I intended.
(I don't know what that says about you, but I'm okay with it. HA!)
I will investigate "The Tempest" with all the enthusiasm you should expect of me.
Don't smirk too much should you see future references and allusions to it.  
Thank you, Catherine.

Jeff -
Names, names, names.
Names are funny things, are they not?
Generally arbitrary, interchangeable at will or upon whim, yet they carry such import to varying degrees of intrinsic value.
Well... you should have known that I'd already done my homework on age appropriate given names.
http://www.guildofstmichael.org/names.html
Elizabeth - number effing one, and not overdone on pop culture. Gimme five!
George - not too far down the list and ahead of that [uncharitable remark], burnt-out Edddddwerrrrrd. Simply didn't care for those prior to it. Made me think of George Washington.
Ben - Well, since I had done picked George (Washington) not too surprisingly I thought of Benjamin Franklin. Born 1706. Three centuries old, Good enough for me.
Hope that makes sense.
H3ll, yeah it makes sense.
I flag writers down all the time for picking goofy names that just stick in my eye like a splinter.
Bummer that's what stuck in yours, but honestly, I do appreciate you rolling that aspect around in the back of your mind and thought to lump it out here.
That was very nice of you.
Thank you, Jeff.

Well... Seems I have made some progress.
Seems I still have more to make.
I done got this far, so...

See you guys around!  











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tailbest
Posted: November 14th, 2010, 4:47pm Report to Moderator
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Ray,

Good job on completing a OWC. Unfortunately, this story did not work for me.

I did enjoy the setup and the idea for this story. Once we got deeper in, though, I felt myself struggling to pay attention to what was going on. There, in my opinion, was too much description which made the story feel a lot longer than it should have been. I know you said you get hammered on sparse description along with too much description. I feel you should try to find a happy medium. Give some description, but not every CRACK needs to be accounted for.

I wanted to like this story, but I just couldn't. I would try to write an idea with less description, but have the description you do use be very strong. I would see if that may work for your writing style and for the reader as well.

Rob


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