Quoted from ericdickson Not a damn clue.

Me three.

Quoted from PKCardinal Okay... can I just say, I’ve never lived in a home where the front door isn’t in the living room. I guess it’s a Midwest thing? In my current house you can touch the front door and the sofa at the same time without even stretching.  (Whew, that’s been bugging me all week.)

I've been pulled up in the past about this kind of thing before as well. I had a similar issue in my current entry, so I made it abundantly clear by saying something to the extent of " the back door, which exits off the kitchen", I was worried that if I went from the kitchen to the door or outside people would lose their minds.

When do we see the results?

I’m thinking of turning mine into a feature. A lot of room to do so.

Quoted from PKCardinal One thing I've learned... you can be technically correct... and still distract the reader. And, that's what I did. I created a page one distraction with a bad (though, technically correct) slug.

This is very true. I always try play it as safe as possible when it comes to clarity. I still fail but I try and remove or rewrite any part that gives me pause and makes me question something about it.

Quoted from Dreamscale How did this whole conversation even start? What did I say and where and what's the fucking big deal? I'm not sure what we're even talking about here, but as for Mini Slugs, the assumption for omitting a time element is because they are continuous scenes, or happening at the same time. Maybe we should just omit all time elements unless we change from day to night.  Yeah...let's go with that!  No more time elements needed once the time is set.

The better question is how did it start and why did it continue.

Living Room Issue

It started with your comments on the Remote Control script. Specifically:

Quoted Text Hmmm, the front door is in the living room?

Then in this thread Paul said:

Quoted Text Okay... can I just say, I’ve never lived in a home where the front door isn’t in the living room. I guess it’s a Midwest thing? In my current house you can touch the front door and the sofa at the same time without even stretching.  (Whew, that’s been bugging me all week.)

Then I replied:

Quoted Text Front doors are commonly in the Living Room. You do not need a separate header for that nor add a foyer, lobby or whatever. It was perfectly clear as you had it.

Then you replied with this inane comment:

Quoted Text Front doors are not commonly in a living room.  WTF?  Front doors usually open up to some sort of foyer, front hall.

Which was factually incorrect AND irrelevant as in this story the front door was in the living room.  None of that would be needed if you (a) didn't make the silly comment in the first place or (b) respond to my response to Paul with some inaccurate diatribe about where doors are located.  Now, the silly comment in the first place is certainly understandable - we all do that. All of us. What you do is defend silly with more silly. i.e., in this case rather than simply writing - my bad - you provide an inaccurate architectural summary on front door locations. Because you are interested in front doors??? No. Because you defend every comment you make - right or wrong - to the very end.

So - that's how we got there on the doors.

Mini-Slugs

Started with your comment on Remote Control.

Quoted Text So, let's quickly discuss Mini Slugs - the reason they don't require a time element is because the assumption is that they are continuous scenes...or scenes taking place at the same time as a scene in another room in the structure.  In reality, I don't think this is the case here, but I doubt anyone would notice or bring this up, but me.

And this -

Quoted Text End of page 2/top of Page 3 - Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier, in terms of the Mini Slugs - The way you've written this, with the Mini, will play out like this - Ashley grabs the photo, while in the Hallway.  New scene in Kitchen, where she immediately smashes it.  Do you see what I'm getting at?

Then in this thread - as an add on to Paul's comment related to doors - I said the advice on mini-slugs was incorrect as well.

Then you responded with another inaccurate made up standard regarding information we are not privy too.

I responded to that.

Then you responded with this:

Quoted Text I'm not sure what we're even talking about here, but as for Mini Slugs, the assumption for omitting a time element is because they are continuous scenes, or happening at the same time. Maybe we should just omit all time elements unless we change from day to night.  Yeah...let's go with that!  No more time elements needed once the time is set.

Which is another classic Jeff misdirection.  Needed because it is just to difficult to say - ooops.

Your misdirection - No one has argued for the elimination of time elements in headers.

Your premise on mini-slugs being only used for continuous scenes, or happening at the same exact time is wrong - dead wrong.  I've already quoted you pretty reliable source on that - do you need others?

So - that is how we got here.

Jeff, my final advice to you here would be this. Focus less on nit rules and more on macro objectives. For example, CLARITY is a macro-level writing objective.  Mini-slugs is a nit rule.

So - were you really unclear is to what was happening in the script. If the answer is yea - there was a clarity issue -  then sure - tell the writer that his use of a specific mini-slug created some clarity issues for you (let's say you were confused on how much time passed from the hallway to the kitchen).  That's better guidance then mini-slugs are incorrect. 1) because they were not and 2) the mini-slug could be modified to provide clarity (rather than using a whole header).

Quoted from JEStaats I also use Trelby and have been called out on the spacing (always by the same person) but I'm a slave to the product. There's so much about it I like that we'll just have to get over it. Besides, it's free!

Just literally upgraded to Final Draft 11 from version 10 yesterday. I haven't typed a thing on it yet, but damn it looks pretty.

I absolutely love Final Draft, I've been with it since version 8. It's a fantastic product.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I did. All the votes are in and Don is adding them all up. Sorry Zack. Thought you were busy.

No problem.

I've been extremely busy. But I FINALLY got a couple of days off.

I'm really very happy with how this OWC turned out. Much more participation than my Scarefest OWC I did a few years back.

Dave, where's all the anger coming from, brother?  Calm your old arse down...we don't want you to have a heart attack or something.

In terms of my "silly" comment on Paul's script, as you quoted, I simply asked a question as to where the front door was.  That's all I did on the script thread, correct?

The bigger issue in the script was the use of INT/EXT LIVING ROOM.  Just looking at such a Slug should give one a notion that something's wrong with it.  As in, it just doesn't make any sense.  How can one be inside the living room and outside the living room in the same scene?

As per my "silly" comments on Mini Slugs and defending what I said earlier, I'll continue to defend it. You say that no one said anything about omitting time elements - well...you're saying it by saying Mini Slugs are just fine to use when time has passed.  In fact, I think you said the only time it's not right is if it's changed from day to night or night to day.  Mini Slug away!!

Don't you get it?  OK, so now, I've got Paul's script open and am looking at bottom of Page 2, top of page 3, and I see exactly what I was referring to, and what you quoted.

You don't see the issue here?  The issue is to view the action, as it's written.

As it's written, Ashley grabs a photo in the hallway.  End of scene.

Next scene - Ashley smashes the photo in the kitchen.  Then, she suddenly has a scissors in her hands, and she cuts the photo in half.

You don't see anything wrong here?

BTW, I said outright on the Remote Control thread, that it was my favorite of the bunch.  Give me a fucking break, dude!

In our house, the front door opens right into a living room. In fact, I've never lived in a house or apartment that had a mud room. My brother has bought three houses in the last 5 years. One opened into a living room, the other two into a kind of hallway.

As far as the minislug debate, it's interesting. I did learn it the way Jeff is explaining it(I might have learned it from Jeff actually, lol). It does make sense logically. I propose that maybe it makes perfect sense to apply the time/continuity rule if the script is intended as something closer to a shooting draft.

If it's a pure spec script, it shouldn't matter at all. In fact, for years I have been moving in a different direction on this. What matters...and generally is the only thing that matters...is grabbing the reader, holding her, and making her think this would look great on film. With that being the goal, readability is a huge factor. Mini-slugs are not used because the writer can't be bothered to form a proper slug. They are used because it's easier to read.

That said, looking at the script, I think I would actually follow Jeff's advice on this one. I don't know. It doesn't bother me the way it's written, but I don't think it would slow the read by making a full slug since we don't see her walk to the living room or drink the wine. The new slug would make us more alert to the fact that time has passed...a bottle's worth of time.

I appreciate Dave's frustration with Jeff's concept of strict rules...God I appreciate it...but Jeff does have a keen eye for these things and sometimes his suggestions are the best way to go.

Mini slugs are fine to use when time has passed.

LATER is a mini slug.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Mini slugs are fine to use when time has passed.

This.

The next OWC must be the front door challenge.

Mini slugs only.

Mark - LOL

I'm in, Mark. Down with slugs! In with minis. Let the revolution begin.

Quoted from DustinBowcot LATER is a mini slug.

Yes, LATER is a Mini Slug, but it's also a perfectly clear Mini Slug, in that we know we're still in the exact same location, but time has passed...and that's what's key here.

My frustrations with Dave (and Warren, on recent discussions) is that they seem to think if something is OK in a certain situation, then it's OK in every situation, and that's just not true.

Too many wrylies is too many wrylies.

Using Mini Slugs whenever the Hell you feel like it, is not the way to go.

The "intent" of a Mini Slug is to show that no time has passed, or that things in different rooms are happening at the same time.

Peeps may frown on the time element of "MOMENTS LATER", but not only is it perfectly OK, it's actually a big help to the reader.  take this example...

INT BATHROOM - NIGHT

Erin steps out of the shower, exposing a fucking hotass body, grabs a towel.

INT. BEDROOM - MOMENTS LATER

Erin pulls a sweatshirt over her much more than abundant breasts, heads out the door.

We know from the Slug that time has passed, and Erin has obviously dried off, done whatever she does to make herself beautiful, and she's ready to head out.

Now, check this out...

INT BATHROOM - NIGHT

Erin steps out of the shower, exposing a fucking hotass body, grabs a towel.

BEDROOM

Marty climbs into bed, a smile on his face.

In the 2nd example, using a Mini Slug shows that Marty is climbing into bed, as Erin is drying off in the bathroom.

Get it?