Quoted from Zack Anyone here ever watch the movie "The Guest". Practically no information whatsoever is given to us the audience, but there is a coherent logic to all of the antagonists actions. The writer of the film has said that he had written scenes where the antagonists backstory was explained, but the scenes where scrapped because he felt it was better to leave stuff up for interpretation.

Have not seen it

Quoted from eldave1 Have not seen it

Check it out, Dave. It's a strange film that is sort of The Terminator and Halloween rolled into one. Really fun flick.

Quoted from Zack Anyone here ever watch the movie "The Guest".

Loved that movie! Great music too. I saw an RLM interview where the writer talked about how he tried to put as many Halloween references as possible... which I'm sure you appreciated.

Quoted from Zack Check it out, Dave. It's a strange film that is sort of The Terminator and Halloween rolled into one. Really fun flick.

Will do

Quoted from MarkItZero Loved that movie! Great music too. I saw an RLM interview where the writer talked about how he tried to put as many Halloween references as possible... which I'm sure you appreciated.

Great interview. I agree that the music is fantastic. I'd love to get the soundtrack.

And yes, I love all the many different Halloween references. The movie seems like it was tailor made for me.

I'm not sure I understand...

This is about how a person may use a lack of understanding as a reason to not like a script in an OWC.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Mark, I honestly think this question only comes up in OWCs... and purely because it gives the reader a reason to dislike the story. If it wasn't an OWC, they'd accept the story for what it is and probably give some good advice instead.

Then I said that I don’t agree because I review non OWC scripts in the same way.

Quoted from Warren I don't agree, a story that doesn't make sense for me is always going to be less satisfying. I have made similar comments on non OWC scripts, and my advice has been the same; give it meaning, give the characters purpose. I'm not saying a story that isn't explained isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but it's not going to be mine. This is all personal opinion of course.

I didn’t say everything needs to be explained, there just needs to be enough for me to buy into the story. I agree that some people are happy just to go with it, all I'm saying is that I'm not one of those people and the fact that it's an OWC script has no bearing on this particular issue.

Quoted from DustinBowcot That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the need for everything within a story to be explained. I read a story about vampires, I know they don't exist, so no explanation could ever make sense. I alter my perception of what makes sense to suit the world created by the writer.

I've talked about vampires in a separate post, they have an established 'legend', while we know they don’t exist, we know the rules by which they operate. So it is easy to alter your perception.

If however I don’t know the 'rules' that this thing operates by, then for me, personally, it is not as enjoyable. I prefer to know the motivations of the antagonists and protagonists.

I've never said this can’t be done, or that it shouldn’t. I also pointed out on the other thread that there are many movies like this and especially in the horror genre, but just because they exist and have an audience doesn’t mean I have to like them, and I generally don't.

For examples sake, feel free to check out this reviews I did for a non OWC script. I bring up the exact same issues. Or don't, either way...

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-shorthr/m-1554063470/

Okay, so I really need to get some things off my chest.   This thread seems to be the only signs of activity on SS, so indulge me for a few moments...

Let's start with the last fifteen years of my screenwriting career.  

In 2014, I was contacted by a low budget production house called 30 Something Productions to redraft an original script of mine titled Squad Room to fit the parameters of what they were interested in shooting.  Which was a low budget street cop drama with edge, kind of like Training Day.  I went on to complete four additional drafts with the understanding that the final draft was for sure going into production with Jason Ritter and Michael Gross on board.  After several months of back and forth, 30 Something and said director Doug Elford-Argent stopped communication.  The film was never shot and I never heard from him or his wife again.  

In 2016, I was contacted about a found footage script titled The Creeps (aka The Night Watchers), optioned for a small fee and was later produced.  I made several attempts to contact said director and producer and was never contacted again.  The film never completed post production and most of the cast have also refused to respond to any inquries.  They seriously won't return my messages.  At least tell me to fuck off.    

Also that year, my scripts HOA and The Anarchist's Playground were optioned for a modest fee and was told that both projects were starting pre-production later that year.  After two short emails,  both directors cut contact and never heard from either of them again.  

Also that year, I was contacted by an Atlanta "producer and director" about penning an original micro budget action flick -- later titled 3 G, an urban thriller that perfectly fit the parameters of the director's vision.  I completed the script and never heard from him again.  

In 2017, I made my first outright sale to JHC 3 Group with my sci fi script Redwood: A UFO Story.  It was a decent payday and no real complaints.  But I never heard from them again and can't find any evidence that they exist.  

In 2019, I'm contacted about my script HOA, for the second or third time now, and was recently told that they were SHOOTING IN MAY.  After a brief conversation with one of the cast members, this is indeed not the case.  There is no shooting schedule, no money and no plans on shooting anything in the foreseeable future.   The last I checked, they were recording themselves doing skateboard tricks.  

Going back a few years...

In 2005, I penned what was intended to be a 35mm feature thriller called The Utah Murder Project which caught the interest of a then unknown Blake Lively, Amy Smart, Oz Perkins and a very young Nicole Travolta.  After two years of attempting to raise the funds for production, the director gave up and decided to shoot a micro budget horror film...

...and that film would be called Dark Games.  A film that had such names as Martin Kove, Jeff Conaway, Brian Thompson, Danny Trejo and a little known rising star named Booboo Stewart who was about to take off in the Twilight Saga and X Men films.  

After discovering a huge internet following of Booboo Stewart, I began begging and pleading with the director to self promote and self package the film to online buyers.  Young ladies who were DESPERATE to see Booboo's latest movie.  We all would have made a KILLING.  He refused and cut contact.  I haven't spoken with him in eight years.  

So, here we are.  And I am not sure I want to continue this journey as I've come to learn that most so called producers, filmmakers, directors you meet online are completely full of shit.  No one ever follows through with most of what comes out of their big mouths and it's a big slap in the face to the writers who have put so much time and effort into crafting their work.    

I'm not sure I can call my self any kind of real screenwriter as I've discovered the last fifteen or so years has been all for not.  Dealing with frauds, fakers, jive ass producers with fake Imdb credentials and flashy instagrams and people who want something for nothing.  

Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.    

Quoted from ericdickson Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.

Yes everyone has been screwed, but I've also had amazing experience with good people who’ve kept me in the loop at every step. Some of which have remained friends.

Maybe you are the common denominator  

Quoted from Warren Yes everyone has been screwed, but I've also had amazing experience with good people who’ve kept me in the loop at every step. Some of which have remained friends. Maybe you are the common denominator

All it takes is a single email.  Eric, we don't really have any money.  And we're really not gonna shoot this thing at all.  

Or something like that.  Why the lies?  Why the puffing up of their own brand, then not following through on anything.  I've been nothing but courteous and polite, and have bent over backwards with rewrites.  

Pay the writer.  It's that simple.  Pay them up front for the option and then lose their number.  Don't bullshit them for six months if you're not serious.  

THEY contacted me.  Not the other way around.  But why?  What for if you're not serious about what you're doing?  Don't get it.  

>

Quoted from eldave1 The original discussion was two-tiered and not whether we needed to understand the background on monsters. To over-simplify, for a good story/script: 1. Should the characters have clear goals and motivations and thing happening for a reason. 2. When writers create a certain world, should the readers have an understanding of that world and the related monsters, etc. My opinion. For # 1, regardless of genre, for me the answer is yes. That being said, you don't have to hit someone over the head with it. In Stowaway, we know our protag is a run of the mill gruff driver delivering avocados. In Libertine, our protag is delivering slaves. Good enough for understanding the character motivations. The one area I thought Stowaway could have done better in terms of issue # 1 was the opening phone dialogue from Red. It needed more explanation - Red is angry at a guy for some reason, wants an apology from him, and ain't delivering shit  until he gets it. Throughout the story I kept thinking what promise was broken, who was that dude Red was talking to - that background was never provided and thus made the story a tad less rewarding for me. Back to the point - sometimes character motivations and goals are easily implied.  We know why someone is captaining a slave ship. Why someone is driving a delivery truck. Conversely, if those characters are in worlds that are not commonly understood then I think the writer needs to do more in terms of their goals and motivations. For # 2 There are some monsters that are rooted in common knowledge and additional detail is not required. Conversely, some or not and detail is required. If you are writing a vampire script - much of the groundwork is already laid out for you. But imagine that you are writing the first vampire script ever. If you have your vampire running home in a panic to get there before sunrise - you're going to need to explain to the reader why. I would also add this. To me it is always better to satisfy 1 and 2.  IMO, Horrors tend to meet these goals more than any other genre and it is one of the reasons I personally don't enjoy them. - People doing ever day normal stuff. - A horrific monster comes out of nowhere and kills them. Ugh.

Agreed.

But I think it's safe to say there is no right or wrong answer, only what a viewer’s/reader's preference is and how much they’re willing to accept.

I basically said everything I needed to say in the original thread. I totally accept that people can have differing opinions on this. I just don’t think it’s fair to say either one is wrong.

If I don’t like your script, your OWC script, or a film because shit doesn’t make sense, that's allowed. It's not my problem as a consumer if I didn’t enjoy it because it didn’t make sense, that lies with the writer who is obviously allowed to do what they want.

My original thoughts can be found here:

https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1556059353/

Quoted from ericdickson All it takes is a single email.  Eric, we don't really have any money.  And we're really not gonna shoot this thing at all.   Or something like that.  Why the lies?  Why the puffing up of their own brand, then not following through on anything.  I've been nothing but courteous and polite, and have bent over backwards with rewrites.   Pay the writer.  It's that simple.  Pay them up front for the option and then lose their number.  Don't bullshit them for six months if you're not serious.   THEY contacted me.  Not the other way around.  But why?  What for if you're not serious about what you're doing?  Don't get it.   >

I totally agree with you. I just don’t think it will change. There are always going to be people that suck.

It's even hard to screen the good from the bad as initial contact can be great and very quickly turn negative.

I just don’t understand the point of the post? If it’s just a rant to get some things off your chest, that’s fine, shit can get stressful. But what is the takeaway? What have we learned? What can we do to make things better going forward?

Quoted from ericdickson All it takes is a single email.  Eric, we don't really have any money.  And we're really not gonna shoot this thing at all.   Or something like that.  Why the lies?  Why the puffing up of their own brand, then not following through on anything.  I've been nothing but courteous and polite, and have bent over backwards with rewrites.   Pay the writer.  It's that simple.  Pay them up front for the option and then lose their number.  Don't bullshit them for six months if you're not serious.   THEY contacted me.  Not the other way around.  But why?  What for if you're not serious about what you're doing?  Don't get it.   >

Eric, I can only sympathise. The writer unfortunately (unless famous) is at the bottom of the totem pole. I've been in a slump when emails have gone unanswered after very excited filmmakers have signed on the dotted line for Shorts, and nothing has come of it. And also when scripts have been made without my knowledge or permission, and then made badly.

I think you've had a particular run of bad luck with unconscionable people who've probably run out of money and are devoid of common courtesy.

Perhaps the only way around it is in the fine details of the contract. You give them the Contract on your terms, not the other way around, unless of course it's Netflix et al.

Get paid for the Option, an amount you specify, and/or for rewrites and then at least you've been financially compensated.

You clearly have some sought after feature film scripts (and if names are attached) I'd be using that clout to acquire an Agent.

Quoted from Warren I totally agree with you. I just don’t think it will change. There are always going to be people that suck. It's even hard to screen the good from the bad as initial contact can be great and very quickly turn negative. I just don’t understand the point of the post? If it’s just a rant to get some things off your chest, that’s fine, shit can get stressful. But what is the takeaway? What have we learned? What can we do to make things better going forward?

  

I may put a disclaimer on all my title pages.  

If you have no intention of compensating writer, please do not contact.          

At least when I don't hear back, I'll know where I stand.  

I may be onto something here.  

Quoted from LC Eric, I can only sympathise. The writer unfortunately (unless famous) is at the bottom of the totem pole. I've been in a slump when emails have gone unanswered after very excited filmmakers have signed on the dotted line for Shorts, and nothing has come of it. And also when scripts have been made without my knowledge or permission, and then made badly. I think you've had a particular run of bad luck with unconscionable people who've probably run out of money and are devoid of common courtesy. Perhaps the only way around it is in the fine details of the contract. You give them the Contract on your terms, not the other way around, unless of course it's Netflix et al. Get paid for the Option, an amount you specify, and/or for rewrites and then at least you've been financially compensated. You clearly have some sought after feature film scripts (and if names are attached) I'd be using that clout to acquire an Agent.

As far as good names involved...

Who knows if that was all bullshit too.  I've been told all kinds of things that never came to fruition.  The reason I posted this long tirade is to see if there were others who've been burned as badly as me.   I was starting to get a complex.  

Quoted from ericdickson Okay, so I really need to get some things off my chest.   This thread seems to be the only signs of activity on SS, so indulge me for a few moments... Let's start with the last fifteen years of my screenwriting career.   In 2014, I was contacted by a low budget production house called 30 Something Productions to redraft an original script of mine titled Squad Room to fit the parameters of what they were interested in shooting.  Which was a low budget street cop drama with edge, kind of like Training Day.  I went on to complete four additional drafts with the understanding that the final draft was for sure going into production with Jason Ritter and Michael Gross on board.  After several months of back and forth, 30 Something and said director Doug Elford-Argent stopped communication.  The film was never shot and I never heard from him or his wife again.   In 2016, I was contacted about a found footage script titled The Creeps (aka The Night Watchers), optioned for a small fee and was later produced.  I made several attempts to contact said director and producer and was never contacted again.  The film never completed post production and most of the cast have also refused to respond to any inquries.  They seriously won't return my messages.  At least tell me to fuck off.     Also that year, my scripts HOA and The Anarchist's Playground were optioned for a modest fee and was told that both projects were starting pre-production later that year.  After two short emails,  both directors cut contact and never heard from either of them again.   Also that year, I was contacted by an Atlanta "producer and director" about penning an original micro budget action flick -- later titled 3 G, an urban thriller that perfectly fit the parameters of the director's vision.  I completed the script and never heard from him again.   In 2017, I made my first outright sale to JHC 3 Group with my sci fi script Redwood: A UFO Story.  It was a decent payday and no real complaints.  But I never heard from them again and can't find any evidence that they exist.   In 2019, I'm contacted about my script HOA, for the second or third time now, and was recently told that they were SHOOTING IN MAY.  After a brief conversation with one of the cast members, this is indeed not the case.  There is no shooting schedule, no money and no plans on shooting anything in the foreseeable future.   The last I checked, they were recording themselves doing skateboard tricks.   Going back a few years... In 2005, I penned what was intended to be a 35mm feature thriller called The Utah Murder Project which caught the interest of a then unknown Blake Lively, Amy Smart, Oz Perkins and a very young Nicole Travolta.  After two years of attempting to raise the funds for production, the director gave up and decided to shoot a micro budget horror film... ...and that film would be called Dark Games.  A film that had such names as Martin Kove, Jeff Conaway, Brian Thompson, Danny Trejo and a little known rising star named Booboo Stewart who was about to take off in the Twilight Saga and X Men films.   After discovering a huge internet following of Booboo Stewart, I began begging and pleading with the director to self promote and self package the film to online buyers.  Young ladies who were DESPERATE to see Booboo's latest movie.  We all would have made a KILLING.  He refused and cut contact.  I haven't spoken with him in eight years.   So, here we are.  And I am not sure I want to continue this journey as I've come to learn that most so called producers, filmmakers, directors you meet online are completely full of shit.  No one ever follows through with most of what comes out of their big mouths and it's a big slap in the face to the writers who have put so much time and effort into crafting their work.     I'm not sure I can call my self any kind of real screenwriter as I've discovered the last fifteen or so years has been all for not.  Dealing with frauds, fakers, jive ass producers with fake Imdb credentials and flashy instagrams and people who want something for nothing.   Has anyone else here ever gotten royally fucked??  Or am I a special case??  With regard to production, I've not once had a good experience with anyone.  I don't get it.

So you’ve deleted the original thread, but these were my comments to a now changed piece...


But in all seriousness, what’s the point of this other than to have a rant?

This literally happens to everyone, and I can guarantee it’s never going to change so saying this...

"Let's talk about something important.  Like how full of shit most people are."

Achieves about as much as any other thread that...

" really doesn't go anywhere or help to accomplish anything"

It’s really just a massive post about your massively unlucky writing career.

I can’t drop any names but I've had two shorts filmed that were never completed and I lost contact, I’ve lost contact with many filmmakers that had options, I’ve had films deep in preproduction and lost contact.

What’s the lesson learned, or how do we make things better as we go forward? Well we don’t, as writers we suck it up and either keep going or throw in the towel, simple as that.

BUT NOW…

You then told me you could say what you want because... America.

But all I was trying to do was further your discussion, so your comment is pretty odd.

You noted in the other thread that some threads and lines of discussion...

" really doesn't go anywhere or help to accomplish anything"

Then I ask what you are trying to accomplish and you shoot me down with some freedom of speech BS.

You obviously realised how petty the comment was and that’s why you deleted it, I’m just confused why you would take that route.

Anyway… best of luck to you. Hopefully something works out soon.