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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  A non level playing field Moderators: bert
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  Author    A non level playing field  (currently 2735 views)
Dreamscale
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:22pm Report to Moderator
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Thought I'd start a new thread here on the debate over Pro writers having an unfair advantage in getting their scripts produced over Non Pro writers.

I'll start with 2 fairly recent examples that I doubt anyone will be able to disagree with.

Both happen to come from Wes Craven.

In 2007, Craven and his son wrote the script for The Hills Have Eyes 2 in approximately 2 weeks.  The finished product was a complete fucking mess that virtually everyone hated.  Budgeted at $15 Million, it did actually churn out a profit, and hauled in $37 Million WW.  But this was due to the success of the equally budgeted, but far superior Alexandre Aja written The Hills Have Eyes remake the prior year, which churned out $70 Million WW.

No way in Hell this abomination would have been made if anyone else without Craven's clout had written it, as it was a complete and utter joke of an effort.

In 2010, Craven wrote and directed My Soul to Take.  The movie was a complete and utter disaster, budgeted at $25 Million, and taking in a wimpy $21 Million WW.  Not even Craven's name could get butts into theater seats, and critics and fans alike all tore this piece of shit a new asshole.

Again, if anyone else, without Craven's name recognition had submitted this script, it would have found the circular file faster than a fly finds a fresh piece of shit.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:30pm Report to Moderator
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Agreed, but it's not the script that getting the film Produced. It's Wes Craven.

He became Wes Craven by writing Nightmare on Elm Street...one of the greatest horrors of all time....after he'd written Last House on the Left which caused a big stir.

And let's not forget...he;s the guy that wrote the Hills Have Eyes in the first pace back in 77!!!
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RayW
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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When it comes to writer director features there's a completely different screenplay standard than for that of a pure spec script and even a pro script.

So there's three standards, really.



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Dreamscale
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:32pm Report to Moderator
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But Rick, this is exactly the entire point of this discussion.

Craven is a Pro writer.

He wrote these 2 scripts.

They're both abysmally horrific.

They both got made, and if anyone else had written them, they'd both be shredded and laughed at.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:32pm Report to Moderator
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The playing field is all about money.

You write something that will bring the dollars in, you'll be the next big thing.

That's the only playing field there is...it's the only game in town.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
But Rick, this is exactly the entire point of this discussion.

Craven is a Pro writer.

He wrote these 2 scripts.

They're both abysmally horrific.

They both got made, and if anyone else had written them, they'd both be shredded and laughed at.


Have you read them? Send them to me via email.
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:34pm Report to Moderator
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Craven did not direct Hills Have Eyes 2 (2007).

My Soul to Take did not make money.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Craven did not direct Hills Have Eyes 2 (2007).

My Soul to Take did not make money.


I'm not sure of your point.

Craven is probably about ten billion dollars in credit with the studios after all his films have been taken into consideration. The studios can afford to let him squander a few mill here and there.

Almost every one is still shown on TV to this day. Hills have Eyes was on last night (original).
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Dreamscale
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:47pm Report to Moderator
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Rick, how can you say you're not sure what my point is?  I don't get it.

You're doing the same thing you continually do.  You're not listening to anyone's point and you're continually defending every Pro writer's every effort, it seems.

I have not read the scripts, nor do I have them.  I can only go on what I viewed as a finished product.  It's a concept.  It's a story.  It's a plot.  It's certain characters doing and saying certain things.

Both of these examples are examples of poorly conceived ideas, with poor outcomes.

Just to be crystal clear, if any Non Pro writer had submitted these scripts/concepts, they would not have been accepted.  Period.

Are you seriously sticking up for these 2 examples?  C'mon now...
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 5:52pm Report to Moderator
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Just to chime in here a bit to mention that Wes Craven admitted to have had problems in selling A Nightmare on Elm Street (he says it in the dvd commentary, I think). He was just lucky I suppose that it turned out to be a cult classic (not to everyone's taste though). that's it.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 6:00pm Report to Moderator
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Well, leaving aside the fact that you're again talking about scripts that you've never seen, yes, you're right.

A guy who has written several mega hits, is world famous and has brought in billions of pounds over three decades will have more chance of getting a project off the ground than a nobody.

But he was a nobody once, just like everyone else.

Well if you consider being a porn director for the mafia, a nobdoy...
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JonnyBoy
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 7:00pm Report to Moderator
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AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates!

Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first!

There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...


Guess who's back? Back again?
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JonnyBoy
AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates!

Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first!

There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...


That IS all we do. What else can you do a website?

That's why I tried to commit forum suicide the other day. It's just a way of stopping you working.
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RayW
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 7:11pm Report to Moderator
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If you were a pro writer I bet you could fluff that post to at least three times as long, including unfilmables and orphans.

And if you were publishing it yourself I bet you could include camera angles and sneak in some shot lists, as well.

However, since you're John Q Public Spec Writer Non-Extraordinaire you'll have to cut it down to a terse delivery of fundamental grunts and yips.

And that page-turning b!tch had better sparkle like a mid-summer night's star, too.



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Grandma Bear
Posted: July 25th, 2011, 8:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JonnyBoy
AHHH! Enough with the pointless debates!

Stop bickering about the principles of things that may-or-may-not-be-true, and just focus on writing something with a strong hook, an intriguing story that unfolds in a compelling way, and has roles that actors would love to get their hands on. Great writing can be added at a later date. It's the icing on the cake, but you need a bloody cake first!

There are so many of these discussions that I sometimes wonder if all we do on here is slowly go round in the same circles, occasionally mumbling "Hang on, haven't I been past that before?" It's been nearly three years since I joined, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard the word "unfilmables"...

I've been here since September -05. Too long...

I feel like I've seen the same discussions come and go, come and go. Same with members for that matter. A lot less reviews lately and people have left too. Not sure what has happened.

I've also seen people get their hopes up only to see nothing happening after a loooong period of being jerked around and eventually get depressed when they realized the big dream won't happen.

Write the best script you can and then try your best to get some insider to read it. If it is as great as you think it is, people will notice it. Fact is, most of us don't write great scripts. If you want your own script produced, the only way to guarantee that is to produce it yourself.



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