Quoted from Grandma Bear If you want your own script produced, the only way to guarantee that is to produce it yourself.

Three cheers for the
writer/director
waiting to blossom forth
in all of us made
both bitter and better by
awareness, reason and
common sense!

Good luck to
everyone else!

- Picture of three beers in a toast here -


D@mmit! If you reeeeealy want something done...

An interesting discussion. Me personally I find Wes Craven to be hit and miss.
I'll always have a love for the original Elm Street, but I also enjoyed Serpent and The Rainbow and People Under The Stairs. And I think his best film is the thriller Red Eye. But yes, My Soul To Take was a mess.

However, a good point is made. Generally, Craven sticks to low to modest budgets.
And any feature script written in two weeks time is going to be by the numbers. I don't care who you are or how high tier you are. Does that make Craven and his son bad writers? Not completely. It does, however, suggest that if they had more time, it could have been better. (Although it IS The Hills Have Eyes we're talking about...)

Okay, I'm just going to throw two words into this melee, for consideration and discussion.

Uwe Boll.  I *gots* to get me a copy of one of his scripts, see how masterful that is...  ))))

He's more of a Director and Producer, than a writer.

I have to admit that I actually liked 2 of his movies that he did write himself, Seed and Rampage.  Now, don't get me wrong, when I say I liked them, I'm not saying they were actually good films or an example of good writing, but I've seen far, far worse...like the 2 Wes Craven movies up for discussion here.

What you are seeing as a non-level playing field is networking.

Though you would never do this - if you were to write your entire script in crayon...
And a producer thought it would make a bunch of money then it would be funded.
Of course to get that script to that producer would mean you need to know the guy or at the very least they need to know you.  That may not seem fair but it's not a double standard.

Wow, too much already being discussed here and too much to type and I'm already late. I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing. The business has changed to the point where you're competing with so many people, good writing almost doesn't matter because it won't get in the proper doors without good marketing...

Oh yes, and you NEED a connection. At least one. I started out with quasi-connection and a more legitimate one on the fringes of the business (he's in horror, transitioning to other genres). I worked those tirelessly, to the point where now I'm kind of in a position to help my connection out as much as he helped me in the beginning...

If you can't market yourself, learn. If you don't have any connections, drop what you're doing, move to Hollywood and start reading scripts or getting coffee for a small production house. Otherwise, and I mean this, you're wasting your time...

What Brett's doing? Marketing. He's good at marketing his own stuff. How many of us sitting here rooting him on have thought about trying the same thing?

"I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing."

Way too strong of a statement. I've read too many interviews, scriptshadow is a good source, with new writers who manage to get one really good script discovered and that opens the door. Once it's open, they have to make the right impressions and do the right things, and if they do, and they have the talent, they do well.

I'm not downplaying marketing, just saying that to conclude that one has to be a marketing genius or not write is way too strong.

Also, the process and journey of learning to write can be a long one, and it can take place alongside other things happening in your life. Some of these writers spend many years writing scripts, learning the craft, while they do other things in life. Then circumstances become such where they have the opportunity to pursue things more directly, and it happens when they are also developed enough as a writer, and they make something happen.

There's no reason not to keep writing, and perhaps down the road a situation presents itself where you can put yourself in a place, like Brett has, where you can push things. And there are other pathways. I've seen writers win a contest or film a short that draws attention which opens doors. All of these paths are longshots, but that's the nature of it.

I think anyone who gets involved in this knows it's an extreme long shot. That doesn't make it a waste of time.

I agree, Kev.

Marketing is the best way of ENSURING success. Someone who can market themselves will get more opprortunities, more quickly, and won't need to be as good (probably).

You'd hope there's always a place for just a great script though.

Opportunities are getting slimmer though...there's very little money outside the studio system and they tend to go with people they know.

When you do manage to find people that can open doors for you, make sure you have a script that is damned good. I had the opportunity to show people scripts in Hollywood 2 years ago (including a CAA person). I realized at that time that this was BIG and that none of the scripts I had was something I wanted them to read. I knew it had to be great and mine were not. I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity again if I showed them something that wasn't ready. I know I made the right decision.

Think about this too, and this squares with what you said the other day, Rick. How many so called prepro scripts have you read that you thought deserved to be filmed?  Writing a script that's truly good, and has wide enough appeal to justify millions of dollars, is extremely hard. We can blame marketing and lack of connections, but mostly it's just that we haven't written a standout script.

That said, yeah, marketing and connections are huge. I'm not downplaying them. People here are trying to learn how to write that standout script, though. Odds are against that. But fun trying, and like anything with a big pay off, the odds are against succeeding, but worth pursuing.

The hardest part is actually writing the truly standout script. If one manages to somehow do that, their odds for success should go up.

It's hard to decide what way to go with writing and filmmaking as well.

The best pre pro script I ever read, I think, was one that got to the final at the Nicholls. It was a haunting ghost story set in China about three sisters and a violin.

The writer sent it to me, so he must have been getting pretty desperate. Great script...but honestly I can't see anyone making money on it.

You could change the setting to the US or to the UK (or wherever) to lower the cost (if you're not from China obviously) but you think to yourself..is the horror crowd really going to go for a slow burning romantic/Gothic story about a violin?

Maybe a really famous Director could get away with it, but you can sort of imagine sitting in front of some hard faced execs trying to shift it and saying it was about a haunted violin and them just looking at you like dirt. (I think Anne Rice wrote a story about a haunted instrument as well, and that tanked).

Kind of sad, you can even get something pretty much perfect and it's still all wrong, if you know what I mean.

Then there's the other side of it:

Really crap, but amusing videos that you can knock on once a week are worth more in the current climate than most well made independent films.

Quoted from Grandma Bear When you do manage to find people that can open doors for you, make sure you have a script that is damned good. I had the opportunity to show people scripts in Hollywood 2 years ago (including a CAA person). I realized at that time that this was BIG and that none of the scripts I had was something I wanted them to read. I knew it had to be great and mine were not. I knew I wouldn't get the opportunity again if I showed them something that wasn't ready. I know I made the right decision.

Pia,

Good on you to resist the temptation to put yourself out there too soon.
You couldn't be more right, I see it a lot at the pitch cons and mixer events.
People trying to sell "cookie dough" like it's a "wedding cake".
It's transparent and stinks of desperation, you can smell it like a fart in a car.
Industry types can tell lightning fast if you have anything real to say.
I try to keep it short, concise, pleassant and make lots of eye contact.
Timing's a bitch, but if you don't have confidence in your material, they'll know!
If you don't have faith in your work, no one else ever will even look at it.

It's like charity work, everyone gives to the big shiny charities. Why?
Because they want their money associated with success.
Sure, the ramshackle charities could use it more.
But, they don't get as much dough, because they don't appear ready to use it well.

Regards,
E.D.

Quoted from ajr If you can't market yourself, learn. If you don't have any connections, drop what you're doing, move to Hollywood and start reading scripts or getting coffee for a small production house. Otherwise, and I mean this, you're wasting your time... What Brett's doing? Marketing. He's good at marketing his own stuff. How many of us sitting here rooting him on have thought about trying the same thing?

I hear, "Be an intern and get a feel for the business", all the time here.
And many small production houses are always looking for interns.
It's a great way to meet folks in a non-pressure cooker environment.
If you can't stand the "heat" of pitches and promotion, and want to learn, then intern.
It's a game anyone can play and get a feel for the vibe of the industry.

And much thanks for the shout out, you're far more deserving of such things.
I hang on every word about Grand Avenue's progress.
If you're "good in the room" these pitch cons are a fantastic resource.
I want to share as much about that process as I can with SS members.
It's the least I can do since I picked up a lot about craft from awesome folks here.
If my posts convince one person to go out there and promote themselves, big win.

Ryan's local, so I may just make him go, cuz I know where he lives, sorta.

It's only a matter of time before fortune smiles down on Grand Avenue.

Cheers,
E.D.

Quoted from leitskev "I'll say this much - if you're not a marketing genius on top of being a writer, then don't bother writing." Way too strong of a statement. I've read too many interviews, scriptshadow is a good source, with new writers who manage to get one really good script discovered and that opens the door.

And how do the new writers manage to get said script discovered? Marketing. My point is those who are "managing" today are doing more than posting it on here, Circalit and Inktip. They're networking and querying in every way possible, some are creating video or youtube presentations, etc.

Those who are passively posting will get lapped because your script is competing against mine for reads, and I spend every waking minute promoting myself, and I will get lapped by someone who's even more diligent and who is more talented and who has 10 times the connections.

That's my point. Figure out how many people are doing this - in the hundreds of thousands, by estimate - and then think how they're going about competing for reads and how you're going to top them. If you can't approach it from that perspective it won't get noticed. That doesn't mean that you're not still a good writer or that writing is not worthwhile, it just means you haven't found a way to differentiate yourself, and that comes through marketing...

I am not posting on Inktip, nor anywhere else. Nor am I querying, or marketing in any way at all. And I do not expect to get discovered on SS.

So what am I doing? Learning how to write. As Pia said, you need to be ready if and when the door opens. In my case, I'm not ready. There's too much I need to learn and hopefully master to a degree.

I recognize the need to market. I'm just saying one should not be discouraged from learning how to write. I read an interview recently with a guy with no connections whose script got noticed in a contest. It didn't get produced, but it did get him in the door, and quickly led to work in the industry. He made a point of saying that had these opportunities presented themselves to him a year or two earlier, he would have blown it because he was not ready as a writer.

Good to have connections, very important to find a way to market...just saying people need to write, and shouldn't be discouraged from that. But I thank you for the marketing encouragement and advice! It is taken to heart.