What are saying, the rest of the world wants to justify theft? I don't think so.

And you might want to think about who's investing in the dollar. People that are worried about the euro, which could collapse any minute. Others invest in the dollar because in the end it's the safest bet. Over time, that is always reinforced.  The United States government is more stable than any of the large players.

But that's off topic. The bottom line is that the world is global in orientation, and increasingly so. There are ways to stop blatant pirate sights. And it doesn't require infringing someone else's sovereignty. It simply requires making it in the financial interests of those countries to play ball.

Quoted from leitskev What are saying, the rest of the world wants to justify theft? I don't think so.

I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm saying you aren't going to stop it, just like you aren't going to stop things like prostitution.  It's human nature.  Humans will find a way to do it no matter how illegal you make it.


Passing laws has never worked..!  (period, period, exclamation point).  It's been tried many, many times.   It has never worked..!  Why waste your energy and money on something that doesn't work and won't work because it's never worked..!  

The best thing the movie industry can do is what it's always done for piracy - innovate.  
They should be finding ways to get people to go to the theatre and watch their movies.  That is precisely what they need to do.  And if they can't figure out a way to do that then they should be figuring out how to get those movies to people in their homes..!

That is how to combat piracy, make it something that has no demand.

[quote=mcornetto]

I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm saying you aren't going to stop it, just like you aren't going to stop things like prostitution.  It's human nature.  

Hello friends,

I'm sorry I'm jumping aboard without catching up on the thread as of recent, but Michael--

I just want to say that prostitution might not be a bad thing. I don't know, but there are rules and there are rules. For instance, if there were fifty men on an island and one woman, and they all desired her, would it be wrong for her to cater to their needs, fulfilling a need? Fulfilling a need for profit? And why? Because she might need their services as hunters? As providers of "something"? Like many children? And with varying genetic make-up? ...

Wow, sounds like a good premise for a movie.

But yes...

In any subject, we can always debate and find grey areas. We should strive to be fair and be good contributors and not "steal" in any case.

Sandra

Quoted from Heretic I'm curious; Given the choice, would each of you rather have a small number of people see your movie and pay for it, or a much larger number see it but a slightly smaller number pay for it?

Still curious about this.  If the majority of artists would answer the latter -- which certainly is not necessarily the case -- wouldn't it suggest that piracy is in fact supporting the artist?  There are, after all, other forms of support than money.

Chris, if I spent a bunch of my own money, which I planned on doing with Finders Keepers, and a million people watched it for free online and I didn't get one single penny for my hard work, I'd be bummed. I don't make films to make money, but for others to make money off my hard work and hard earned money would definitely not make me feel good.

Hope that answers your question.  

Michael...

Sure, we'll never stop piracy with laws.  We'll never stop rape, or child porn or murder.  Doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to do everything possible to stop people who cause these things.  Prostitution, that's fine with me.  At least it's an honest business dealing....

Hey Pia,

I'd of course agree with you on that!  That's not the scenario I was wondering about though.  I don't think it's been the case, nor do I think it will be the case that a film is only pirated and never bought at all.  I was wondering about the particular scenario as I described it because that is what I think the actual effects of piracy are: many more see a film, a few less pay for it.

Why bother having patents or copyrights? Inventions get stolen, as does intellectual work. Always has, always will. Why bother having safes at banks? Banks get robbed, always have, always will.  You will never stop pirating. But you CAN limit its impact and damage. And yes, we do have to be vigilant to make sure the effort to stop pirating does not limit of freedoms. Not the freedom to steal, but freedom of speech. And we don't want to destroy places like youtube, or facebook, or simplyscripts just because users could post something stolen there. But common sense measures can be taken to reduce the impact of theft. And there's no reason certain little countries need to be allowed to operate as pirate bases. The pirates pay off the politicians in those countries? Ok, we make them pay a price in lost privileges within the financial system. They will shut the pirates down tomorrow.

Don't worry, the computer geeks and techno people will always be able to steal their stuff. But as long as most people can't, or it's too much trouble for them to, the work of others will still have market value.

Quoted from leitskev You will never stop pirating. But you CAN limit its impact and damage. And yes, we do have to be vigilant to make sure the effort to stop pirating does not limit of freedoms.

I don't think it has been established that it is actually causing any damage.  All I saw in that video was a guy who said people didn't come to the theatre to see his movie.  He blamed it on a pirated copy (which likely no one downloaded either - did he mention how many people downloaded it?).  Or someone saying I didn't get a job.  That must be because of pirates.    

People have been complaining about people not showing up at their movies or not getting entertainment jobs way before internet pirating.  There is no proof here that it is actually doing any harm.

The movie industry was singing its doom when television came out, then again when video tape was sold to homes, then again when DVDs came around.  What I see is a bunch of people that get set in their ways and when something new  comes along they claim it's ruining their industry.  That's exactly what I see.  They don't want to change to meet the new landscape but that's exactly what they need to do and will end up doing - just like the music industry.


  

Quoted from wonkavite Michael... Sure, we'll never stop piracy with laws.  We'll never stop rape, or child porn or murder.  Doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to do everything possible to stop people who cause these things.  Prostitution, that's fine with me.  At least it's an honest business dealing....

It's already illegal.  What do you want to do, pass a law to make it twice as illegal?   That's really going to solve the issue.  

I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about the harm to filmmakers and the threat to the market value of films.  Overall Hollywood profits hit an all-time high in 2009 and remain extremely high.  Overall music industry revenues have gotten steadily higher since 2006.  The gaming industry has posted record-setting annual revenues every year since 2000.  This in the golden age of piracy, and continuing through the recession.  Piracy just has not had an appreciable effect on the industries that it's supposedly going to cripple.  There's no evidence that it has.  There's no evidence that it will.  There are only reasonable assertions for why it might, but there are also equally reasonable assertions for why it might not.  If people are going to continue talking about the dangers of piracy, they're gonna need to prove that they exist.

Quoted from The MPAA Website Does piracy really hurt the movie industry? We’re reminded every weekend how well the box office is doing. However, box office is just one aspect of our business. For years, home video has been a bigger piece. Our studios have relied heavily on the success of their films in the distribution chain after a film is released in the theater. We know that piracy is cutting into those profits, and when those profits are reduced, the studios have fewer dollars to invest in movies, and when there is less money to invest they make fewer movies and the diversity and variety of films we love become more limited. More importantly, if we’re making fewer movies, then fewer people will be able to make their living working on movies. We’ve also seen the impact of piracy on video stores — we’ve seen countless examples of video stores struggling to stay afloat because people are peddling DVDs of movies that are still in theatrical release right in front of these legitimate operations and stealing their business. It simply becomes a struggle to compete.

What a load of shit.

"We know that piracy is cutting into those profits..."  How?  Here's how they "know": a study by the GAO which determines total industry losses by assuming that every single download would have been a full-price purchase of that product: study.  As we've already discussed, to look at things that way is utterly moronic.  

"...when those profits are reduced, the studios have fewer dollars to invest in movies..."  But they aren't reduced.  They're not at all.  They're bigger each year.

"...they make fewer movies..."  Yeah, except they don't.  Other than Disney, who've been concentrating on tentpoles, everyone's been distributing roughly the same amount of movies since 1995 (with the obvious exception of companies that have gone under).

"More importantly, if we’re making fewer movies, then fewer people will be able to make their living working on movies."  Seems to make sense.  Except that the revenue being generated is massive, increasingly massive since the rise of piracy.  Actually, there should be more people than ever making movies.  And I'm sure there are.

"...we’ve seen countless examples of video stores struggling to stay afloat because people are peddling DVDs of movies..."  No...you've seen video stores struggling because of online distribution.  

If one flawed study and a bunch of flawed premises is the best the MPAA can come up with, I don't know why anyone thinks there's a problem at all.

M....

No need to pass more laws...  Just improve the tools for enforcement....  Arrange effective international agreements to prosecute those who infringe on intellectual property.  That's the least that should be done...for any crime.

And I repeat.  No way that's going to happen worldwide.  If there's a corner pirates can go to then they will.   And if there's a way to find them on the web then people will.  

The only way to solve this problem is to get rid of the demand.  If you are willing to do whatever you can to solve the problem, then why not work at an actual solution instead of just applying an expensive band-aid.  

Well, like I mentioned before - I'm in favor of a two pronged approach.  Prosecution of violators to the fullest extent possible.  And come up with legal solutions that might lessen demand.  So I guess we agree.

Quoted from mcornetto All I saw in that video was a guy who said people didn't come to the theatre to see his movie.  He blamed it on a pirated copy (which likely no one downloaded either - did he mention how many people downloaded it?).

I checked the torrent sites I visit, no sale.
Mr. Leddy's "The Wedding Weekend" never showed up on The Pirate Bay. Ever.

E.D.