Quoted from jwent6688 Can someone explain to me the difference between the "case by case" category and the "Sometimes maybe if the author is a dick" category? James

Case by Case means sometimes maybe if the reviewer is a dick.

Quoted from mcornetto Case by Case means sometimes maybe if the reviewer is a dick.

I disagree. The writer can be a sweetheart but if their script's garbage, it needs to be pointed out to them. It's not enough just to say it needs work. This has been the case before.

Schadenfreude i/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/ (German: [ˈʃaːdənˌfʁɔʏdə]) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1]

I'll admit, when I read a shitty script, it makes me feel better about my own. I try not to jump on the band wagon anymore once the author has taken some licks. I like to be first to the party for a good bashing.

When I read a freshly posted script and get ready to torpedo it, only to find someone else beat me to the point... "Sunnava!"

Yes... Schadenfreude...

James

I will vouch for Jeff helping people out extensively, including new members. I know of many examples.

I don't condone attacking a script just for the sake of it. Being honest about its flaws, yes. Where is the line? Who can say. Best not to bother moderators with having to police this kind of thing.

Positive:
it helps the person develop thick skin against criticism.
they're being honest.
the review often gives you several ideas on what to improve on.
if they like something, they'll let you know.

Negative:
crushes people's spirits.
certain scripts get more attention.

That's what I came up with. It's people's form of expression. Granted it could be tamed, but why? People are giving their time to read something of yours for free. they should have the right to review it anyway they like.

Jeff and Phil give good feedback as they trash your script. Jeff gives longer feedback which I am amazed he can do. lol. And lucky for me, I was already trashed so I developed a thick skin. .

My thoughts, Gabe

Quoted from jwent6688 When I read a freshly posted script and get ready to torpedo it, only to find someone else beat me to the point... "Sunnava!" Yes... Schadenfreude...James

Now, that my friend, is some funny shit.  Hopefully enough has been said.  If anyone's feeling are still hurting, go read "Chris Halverson's Cannibal".  There's no way you won't feel better.

Quoted from Forgive I'm not too sure I've so much sympathy for those who post simply as a copyright/ repository/ chance to get aired, and give nothing back.

I believe Don started this website because he loves scripts and wanted it to be a site for screenplays. Produced and non produced.  I doubt the forum was the main idea behind it.

Anyway. I remember a kid named UsaKing. His scripts got trashed a lot. I thought that was sad because as messed up as they were, I actually saw some talent there. He will never be main stream, but neither will John Waters.  

Quoted from leitskev I don't condone attacking a script just for the sake of it. Being honest about its flaws, yes. Where is the line? Who can say. Best not to bother moderators with having to police this kind of thing.

This is a good point. How are we supposed to go about enforcing "zero tolerance?" At what point does a harsh review become trashing? Can one sarcastic remark too many put it over the edge?

Zero tolerance is zero tolerance. If there's any measures to be taken against this sorta thing, I don't zero tolerance is the way. How often do scripts get ruthlessly trashed anyway and more importantly, how many people are actually in on it when they are trashed? Quite few, I'd say. Even Damn You, Bruce! started to get good reviews after a certain point.

A few last thoughts.

1) it's not just Jeff, although i better deal with this now. I almost left SS because of a dreamscale once over. I asked Don to remove my script from the OWC, apologised for getting involved and suggested I withdraw from SS. He refused, bless him, and I'm still here. I simply felt inadequate.

I was fresh to it all, still am, but the brutal onslaught to a newbie was overpowering, when you don't really know what it is all about.

But lets be honest others have done the same. Who is the writer, what do they know, what could they offer? Are rarely asked.

Actually, not so long ago, i was  going to start a thread called, "Who's lost it this week?", as it happens to a lot of readers. Every now and then someone out of the blue, maybe not a usual suspect,  has a go at a script. Which leads me to a few suggestions;

Rule 1 : if someone has beaten up a script, don't follow suit. All you have to say is I agree, maybe then look for more positive suggestions.

Rule 2: try not to repeat the same thing. Ok a bit like (1) but we can all have seen those who choose to repeat the same arguments. Let try and avoid that.

Rule 3 : try and see who the writer is, if you really want to let fly.

Rule 4. : think of another rule as I'm running out of them!!!

I love this site and before anyone thinks different, the best feedback and most detailed advice I have ever received was from Jeff, after the following OWC. Life is not always black and white but maybe we can separate honest, from cruel.

We all know the difference and it up to us to apply this.

I'm going to bed and will let you lot fight all night long whilst I snore.

Ps saw Crouching dragon hidden tiger tonight.. Haven't see it for a while. Gosh i Love that film. Isn't that the kind of thing we should discuss??

Quoted from James McClung ...stuff like The Cabin, Cannibal, Damn You, Bruce and 3 Nazis in a Foxhole.

This is where the "case-by-case" comes from.

"The Cabin" might have been the first, but it is a periodic problem -- and today's skirmish, which is actually quite minor by comparison to some in the past -- just got me to wondering about the consensus thinking on the boards.

Quoted from Janet It DRAGS DOWN THE REPUTATION OF SIMPLYSCRIPTS - makes this board look like an unprofessional mess, both to potential new members, AND TO INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS WHO MAY BE VIEWING THE BOARDS.

I also think this is more of an issue today than it has been in the past.  Hardly a week goes by these days that we don't hear about something good happening for somebody.

So maybe a small paradigm shift is in order.  Just a tweak.

Quoted from jwent6688 Can someone explain to me the difference between the "case by case" category and the "Sometimes maybe if the author is a dick" category?

A subtle distinction.  I was primarily talking about you  

Quoted from leitskev Where is the line? Who can say.

Some may not believe it, but I do take deleting posts kind of seriously, and often feel kind of uncomfortable acting as a censor.

That is why I ask general stuff from time to time.  It helps to know how people on the boards feel about a topic like this.

Can it not be said that one mans criticism is another mans attack?

I've seen scathing reviews be met with appreciation and honest sincerity and I have seen people who dig ever so slightly at a writer’s fragile ego and he/she explodes.

What exactly is trashing defined as?

Case in point-

I reviewed a script and was short and not so sweet. In fact, I was a bit of a$$hole. I don’t think I was over the top but Don disagreed and pulled my post and called me on it via a PM.

I, at first thought he was dead wrong and I still think he was being a little hard on me, but bottom line is...

It's his site and the definition of harsh falls under his definitions, not mine.

I reposted a comprehensive in depth detailed critique of his script and posted it instead.

The result,

The writer never showed up for either review.

BUT it did teach me that I should be mindful of how harsh I should be and that the eye in the sky IS watching.

Shawn.....><  



_______________________________________________

I think there’s a difference between harsh reviews and ones that are just cruel. You can be harsh without being mean. Honesty is often used as a shield when the true goal is cruelty. People who claim their cruel (not harsh, cruel) criticisms are just being honest are in many ways the least honest people of all. They’re just being mean. Honesty is just their excuse for it.

Secondly, there’s no reason to get upset if a writer doesn’t come around. Readers need to get over any sense of entitlement. What members get out of this community is entirely up to them.

Yes, you need to be able to take criticism. But it’s generally not true that you’ll be ripped to shreds in this industry. If your writing isn’t good enough, you’ll just be ignored.

Contrary to what some would have you think, the feedback you get in the industry (if you’re lucky enough to get some) is actually quite positive. The people in Hollywood that I’ve met have been for the most part really nice. Very busy but polite. They don’t just trash you the way a lot of inexperienced people might think. My experiences have been surprisingly positive.

And people in Hollywood generally appreciate a good attitude. They really do. Attitude is important. It’s one of the most important assets you can possess.

Most of these arrogant know-it-alls have written very little. Most have never worked on a production and have no idea how movies are really made. Their ideology is more pet peeve based than from any practical experience. They have poor attitudes and negative views of the industry in general. They hurl insults in the guise of help and hide behind the banner of honesty when they’re called out. If that’s the help you’re looking for, it’s all yours.

So, yeah, a horse may be lead to water, but if the cowboy is planning to drown him, he’s not really doing the horse any favors.


Breanne

Quoted from Dreamscale Maybe it's about time for another sabbatical?

Maybe it's time for you to grow up!

Quoted from Dreamscale I will return to my constructive ways and leave out all references to diarrhea, dog poop (by any name imaginable), and other bodily excrement.

You are about as constructive in your reviews as Hitler was in solving Germany's problems back in the forties.  You are nothing but a frustrated writer who lives with his parents and has nothing to show for in his life.  Rather than try to make everyone as miserable as you, do something to make your life better.

Jeff, you told a new guy that his script smelled worse than a dog rolling in shit.  How the living fuck is this even close to be constructive?  I can almost guarantee that Kamil will not show his face around here again because of you and your misery-sharing attitude.

You talk about about I crapped on other people's scripts?  Fine, pull out the comments from my last ten posts and I'll do the same for you.  That's not enough?  How about the last twenty?  The last fifty?  The truth is that shitting on people's scripts are all you do.  I can pull more crap out of the last ten or twenty reviews of yours than you can in the last five hundred of mine.  Why?  Because I want to help writers; you just want to put them down to make yourself feel better.

I'm putting the killfile back on your name.  I recommend that others do the same.  If anyone has any questions in how to do this, feel free to pm me.

This site is so much better when I can't read your immature hate-filled nonsense.


Phil

Hi Breanne - you've made some good points here, but some of them I don't figure.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Readers need to get over any sense of entitlement. What members get out of this community is entirely up to them.

My input is someone else's output - and vice versa.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Yes, you need to be able to take criticism. But it’s generally not true that you’ll be ripped to shreds in this industry.

Because if you're meeting people, then they often like your stuff.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson The people in Hollywood that I’ve met have been for the most part really nice. Very busy but polite. They don’t just trash you the way a lot of inexperienced people might think. My experiences have been surprisingly positive.

I've met production people, and actors - the actors in particular always think you're ace. Dodgy scripts aren't going to get you there though.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson Most of these arrogant know-it-alls have written very little. Most have never worked on a production and have no idea how movies are really made. Their ideology is more pet peeve based than from any practical experience. They have poor attitudes and negative views of the industry in general. They hurl insults in the guise of help and hide behind the banner of honesty when they’re called out.

Do you mean Dreamscale, here? I just think you're wandering somewhat.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson So, yeah, a horse may be lead to water, but if the cowboy is planning to drown him, he’s not really doing the horse any favors.

No. No, he's not. Erm. Thanks for that.

Quoted from Forgive My input is someone else's output - and vice versa.

That doesn’t make any sense. You can learn from reviewing whether the writer responds or not. Some writers may post a script just to hook up with filmmakers. You can review it if you want but getting upset when the writer doesn’t respond makes no sense. If it bothers you that much, you can just quit reviewing the scripts of people you don’t know or those you don’t think contribute. It’s that simple.

Quoted from Forgive Because if you're meeting people, then they often like your stuff.

Even those who pass on your material are generally nice about it.

Quoted from Forgive I've met production people, and actors - the actors in particular always think you're ace. Dodgy scripts aren't going to get you there though.

I’m talking about people you meet during the pitch and sell process. Those others come later.

Quoted from Forgive Do you mean Dreamscale, here? I just think you're wandering somewhat.

I mean arrogant know-it-alls in general. I’m not wandering at all. The thread is about trashing scripts. I made a point about the people most guilty of that.


Breanne