Im working on a script and this subject came up.

Let me start with a Wiki-

In typesetting, widows and orphans are words or short lines at the beginning or end of a paragraph, which are left dangling at the top or bottom of a column, separated from the rest of the paragraph. There is some disagreement about the definitions of widow and orphan; what one source calls a widow the other calls an orphan.[1][2] The Chicago Manual of Style uses these definitions:[2]

Widow

A paragraph-ending line that falls at the beginning of the following page/column, thus separated from the rest of the text.

Orphan

A paragraph-opening line that appears by itself at the bottom of a page/column.
A word, part of a word, or very short line that appears by itself at the end of a paragraph. Orphans result in too much white space between paragraphs or at the bottom of a page.

Now I've heard these words used here many times but I have to ask how relevent they are to the structure of a script?

My Celtix, as with all software, tries to sum up the paragraphs to prevent this but in many cases does not.

I'm sure the "paid for" programs are much better at it than Celtix but really, is it important?

Is it seperating a pro looking script from an rookie one?

In a contest, are points deducted for them?

Just some thoughts I had when looking into whether or not to work that extra amount of time trying to tighten them up.

Any input??

Shawn.....><

Just write it once...

Go back and tighten it up...

Send it to a pro...

Get it back and look at what they suggest...

Re-write it using their points...

And don't stress over it.  I've learned these last 2 years -- These industry guys.  They're not scoping out all these "do it this way" websites and reading these "How to" books.  They're reading scripts.  Good, honest material.

Would I go back and change an Orphan or a Window?  Sure... If nothing more than to see what else can be added or taken out of that line to eliminate it.  They only occur from 1 of 3 things.

1.  Over writing
2.  Under writing.

or

3.  Lack of planning.

G'luck on your contest going... I'm entered into Page and just came off BK last month.  Tons of really good stuff going on this year.

Balt-

Good to see you.

Page is where im submitting this year as well.

Putting my comedy in. You?

This subject never really meant anything to me up till now.

In fact, with a few exceptions, no one has every really pointed them out so I have to ask if they really do decuct from the over all quality or not.

So, you have tons of good stuff going on eh?

Do tell...

Shawn.....><

+1 Baltis is right?

Just write that script and hopefully it screams MONEYMAKER.  

Good Luck

Ghostie

The sad tale of the lonely orphans.

I always find it humorous when people talk about orphans and say "don't worry about them", or "this is the way I write", or "they actually create white space on the page, and therefor are good".

They're not good, period.  They are 1 word that takes up an entire line.  Therefor they "waste" an entire line.

They are the very first thing every single writer should look for when writing and especially rewriting.

As Balt said, they are usually the result of overwriting.  Sometimes the result of just poor writing.  Other times, the result of not breaking up your passages properly.  But the bottom line is that you can easily do away with them 95% of the time.

Is every single lonely little red headed orphan a bad thing?  No, definitely not.  If a line reads exactly the way you want it to, hey let the little guy stay and get some exercise.  NO big deal.

The issue with orphans comes into play when there is an excessive amount, or when it's just damn obvious there is overwriting going on. And again, if you can save a line by eliminating an orphan, why the Hell wouldn't you want to do it?

Let's look at it this way.  Let's say you have a 100 page script with 1 orphan on each page.  Do you realize that by eliminating them, you cut out basically 2 whole pages?  If you have 2 per page, you've got basically 4 extra pages of absolutely nothing.

People talk about tight writing all the time.  Rounding up your orphans is the most obvious, and first thing you should do to tighten your writing.

I honestly just don't understand how anyone could argue this or think anything different.

Quoted from Dreamscale Is every single lonely little red headed orphan a bad thing?  No, definitely not.  If a line reads exactly the way you want it to, hey let the little guy stay and get some exercise.  NO big deal.

I am partial to the red headed ones!

Ok, I admit, I still don't know what these are - whatever the colour.

Can someone provide an example?

Well Bill, I'm not sure if I'd be the best person to provide an example. There are times I tend to screw these issues
up.

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Ok, I admit, I still don't know what these are - whatever the colour. Can someone provide an example?

When you write your action paragraphs and the
paragraph ends with a line with only one word on it. Like
this.



The lone word "this" is the orphan.  

Never heard of them before I came on here.

Always best to get rid of as much fat as possible, so if cutting helps remove them...all the better.

I suspect that anyone interested in producing the work would only be noticing them if there are far more fundamental problems with the script.

Quoted from Grandma Bear When you write your action paragraphs and the paragraph ends with a line with only one word on it. Like this. The lone word "this" is the orphan.

thanks. So it really is only the layout of the words? I had a fear it was much more.

I can see the argument about lost pages but likewise when white space seems the be "so" pushed by the industry, it does seem to conflict.

Of all the things I can worry about I think this one is down the list, until it becomes an issue of course

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Of all the things I can worry about I think this one is down the list...

That is the correct approach, Reef, once all is said and done.

It does not hurt to be aware of them, but there are far worse transgressions.

This sounds like the next OWC:

Write a story about Orphans and Widows and each paragraph must have an orphan or widow.

Quoted from leitskev Well Bill, I'm not sure if I'd be the best person to provide an example. There are times I tend to screw these issues up.

They can just be real irritants - I've re-worded entire sentences to get rid of them, but then go and think 'this is far too pedantic'.

But then again - I don't mean to sound silly - but it's something to do with the visual effort of going all the way back just to pick up one little word. It's like you get a bus-load of kids across the road, and there's one little runt still on the other side - I'm not the type to think 'leave the little blighter to get run over', but...

Some people just get more worked up than others..

I was just teasing. I think it's good to work on eliminating orphans while you're writing. Often it results in more succinct wording anyway, which is healthy regardless of consideration of lines or white space.

I don't think clarity or better writing should ever be sacrificed for the sake of an orphan, however. If it's clearer or better with the orphan, keep the baby!