I just wrapped the shoot of Bert's Them That's Dead. What made me want to shoot this script was the story itself. I loved it! We've all heard that you have to start with a great script! I believe in that and I think TTD is a great script. Now, everyone from crew to actors loved the script! That's great. Makes it easier to get people to want to be involved....however, I did discover a very disturbing thing during shooting. I caught my actors complaining about editors and whatever altering their perfomramances and whatever. I took their scripts away and asked them what the name of the writer was for TTD....I was dismayed to find out that no one knew. As I writer, I found this to be very disturbing, but it explains why so few writers are household names to even avid movie goers. Do writers deserve better attention? I think so. What do you think?  

Pia,

Congrats on the wrap up of TTD.  Yeah, I believe writers should get more attention, but unless you're a big name... it's no secret most writers, like in "Hollywood" get shit on all the time.

I'm talking at the bottom of the todem pole. I dunno, maybe things will change one day.

Ghost

There's an attitude of "everyone can be a writer", which we all know isn't true. How many stores are there where a director, or worse producer, tries to rewrite the script?

Writers are important but it is a collaborative medium. I don't think any trade is more impudent than the other.. Without a writer, there's no script. Without a director, there's no movie. Without an editor, it's just hours of raw footage. Without actors, there's nothing at all.

We have to give credit to where's credit due.

I agree in that writers are really underappreciated, especially by the average movie-goer. I remember even as a kid before getting into screenwriting, having this idea that the director was always the one who had written the script as well. For some reason I think that people don't really absorb the idea that the writer wrote the dialogue and the entire story, it's weird. Unless you're Aaron Sorkin, as a screenwriter your name is pretty obsolete to the average movie-goer, it's sad but I'm not sure what it would take to get the importance of the writer more blatant.

The problem, IMO, odd that films aren't billed as such. It's always "the directors film", even when the directo wrote the piece as well.

The only names that come to mind as writers and directors are Tarantino, Cameron and Ephron, if only slightly.

When I shot the extended version of End of the Tour the actors were talking about you...so some actors take notice of who wrote the script. Just saying.


The big problem writers have is that it's always the story that gets blamed when people don't like a film.

Sometimes acting may be criticised, but in a major film it's hardly ever things like sound, cinematography, editing etc it's usually the story that they find: boring, senseless, shallow, inconsistent etc

Writers take the blame for that, essentially...as the script (even in its final form) is seen as their responsibility. That can be unfair, but it seems to be the way it is.

A case in point was my ex who used to often say after watching a film: "I liked it...apart from the story". It became a sort of running joke.

My love for film has dwindled recently because I've seen just too many films that do not reach a level of basic competence in the story telling department. Rudimentary things like consistent characters or plots making sense seem to be missing from too many films these days.

I don't know who is to blame...execs for picking bad scripts, or greenlighting projects before a script is written, editing choices etc. But the view of the public is that it's the scriptwriter.

From what I understand the big Producers are wary of writers and see them as tantamount to thieves..this is the impression David Mamet gives in his book Bambi vs Godzilla. They are seen as people who delay everything and who never deliver the goods anyway....they hire writer after writer and still everyone says the script was poor...to them these people are stealing a living.

The way around it would be to write scripts that only you can write and become known for having a certain inimitable skill or style.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films When I shot the extended version of End of the Tour the actors were talking about you...so some actors take notice of who wrote the script. Just saying.

Really? I'm blushing!

I was really surprised at this. Once, when I referred to the writer, one of them said "what, you didn't write this?". And that was with them sitting there with a copy of the script in their hands. The cover page with Robert Newcomer as writer clearly in view.

To me, the writer is the most important person because without us, there is no story for the director to shoot or the actors to act in. We need more respect dammit!!!!  

Overall, writers deserve respect, but as I'm always reminded, movies are a visual medium. People care about what they can see. You can't see people's words (literally) on screen. You see actors, props, make-up, big pointless CGI explosions and all of it is the director's vision... unless it's a production by committee.

The thing I've figured out is there are three ways to be actually renowned as a screenwriter.

1. Write small dramas that rely on a good script over anything else.
2. Be better at characters than Joel and Ethan Coen, be better at story than Paul Thomas Anderson or be better at dialogue than David Mamet.
3. Do what they all have learned to do and direct your own screenplays.

Interesting question and subject, actually.

You know I see alot of movies...I mean alot of frickin' movies.  I always watch the opening credits closely to see if I recognize literally any of the team, especially the writer, director. and producers.

The writer receives (usually) the 2nd last credit, right before the director.  That should tell everyone something - the writer is extremely important and is receiving 2nd billing basically, the Director, 1st.

You can watch a movie and say whatever you like about the 'writing", but let's understand that what we're actually seeing on film has nothing to do with exactly what was written on paper.  Hopefully, the final product does the script justice, in terms of plot, story, characters, dialogue, and maybe most importantly, tone.  But the actual writing...formatting, grammar, punctuation, structure...definitely long removed and unimportant in the actual filming, obviously.

No one's ever gong to convince me that it's not a game of luck, who you know, or just being prepared and being in the right place at the right time, in terms of being a successful screenwriter.

Why do I continually say and believe this?

Because I see so many movies that are absolutely void o any writing talent, yet these A-Holes continue to get paid the big bucks writing more and more crappy movies.

My latest biggest hated writer is some punk named Eric Heisserer.  Who is he and where did he come from?  I don't know, but I do know that he';s written 3 of the worst scripts to 3 movies that should have all been awesome - A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010 remake), Final Destination 5 (2011), and The Thing (2011 remake/prequel/trash).

How did he get any of these gigs?  He sure didn't submit Specs on them.  No one that I'm aware of liked the movies or the scripts. And although one can easily argue that Elm Street was a financial success, it was a critical disaster.  Same can be said for FD5, but as a story, it was abysmal.  And The Thing?  Damn - disaster both financially and critically.  And now, he's in post production with Hours, based on Hurricane Katrina with a solid cast and probably a nice budget.

How does this happen?  Why does this happen?  Hollywood - Please stop employing Mr. Heisserer, as he sucks as a writer.

I remember his name popping up all the time when I was perusing IMDb in 2009/2010. I know "Nightmare" was Wesley Strick's first (he's not that much more talented) but before that, he didn't have a produced credit that I recall. Either he wrote something that nobody wanted but everyone liked or... as Kevin Smith said a while back, "Is the writer of this script somebody's fuckin' cousin?"

It's like Skip Woods. He sucks as a writer. That said, he wrote and directed a very small crime movie, his first script, which the people who have seen it are said to have enjoyed. I still can't comprehend how he went from a tiny crime movie to "Swordfish" and has managed to get progressively worse but I know why they're getting worse. He's cashing paychecks. He's established in action movies that are written for the budgets they receive and he takes his friendly portion and walks away to continue pumping out another unit every six months or so.

EDIT: I forgot. I enjoyed Final Destination 5. Maybe it was because I was stuck with the disgusting taste of THE Final Destination still in my mouth but on a pure entertainment level, I tolerated well enough.

Quoted from Mr. Blonde EDIT: I forgot. I enjoyed Final Destination 5. Maybe it was because I was stuck with the disgusting taste of THE Final Destination still in my mouth but on a pure entertainment level, I tolerated well enough.

Yeah, part 4 was indeed horrific.  Part 3 also was not good, but for me, it was more than tolerable.  I loved the original and thought part 2 was amazing, if for no other reason, the amazing visuals on the opening and a number of other death sequences.

BTW - I actually enjoyed Swordfish!  HaHa...seriously.

Quoted from Dreamscale Yeah, part 4 was indeed horrific.  Part 3 also was not good, but for me, it was more than tolerable.  I loved the original and thought part 2 was amazing, if for no other reason, the amazing visuals on the opening and a number of other death sequences. BTW - I actually enjoyed Swordfish!  HaHa...seriously.

I liked part 3 for a couple of the dialogue sequences and one character. The rest was pretty bad and I could go on and on about how the roller coaster crash would not have happened since Frankie's camcorder started the whole thing and he got off the ride. It's always irritating to see.

I prefer the original to 2 but the opening ten-twelve minutes were extremely good.

Don't worry. I enjoy Swordfish, too. I got bored one day and decided to memorize the opening sequence. Same thing with Snake Eyes. Bad movie written by a bad writer and directed by a bad director (maybe hack/thief is a more appropriate term) but I enjoy it and quote it way too often.

Quoted from Mr. Blonde Same thing with Snake Eyes. Bad movie written by a bad writer and directed by a bad director (maybe hack/thief is a more appropriate term) but I enjoy it and quote it way too often.

I watched Snake Eyes again a couple weeks ago on Netflix.  Saw it at the theater back in 98, and remember liking it but thinking it was pretty stupid as well.  When I watched it again, I was shocked how stupid it was...but still enjoyed it for what it was.

It was written by DePalma and Koepp - are you saying you think these 2 are bad writers?  Lots of great credits among them...some downright classics, even.

I'm saying Koepp is a bad writer (DePalma got Story By) and DePalma is a hack who has no talent of his own, beyond copying Hitchcock a little too often.

Sure, they have classics. Oddly enough, they're at their best when they work together. That said, Koepp did Stir of Echoes which was pretty good and The Trigger Effect which I like despite it being miserably slow and poorly written. And, Koepp should NEVER work with Spielberg again. In my opinion, they're 0-4 when working together. Of course, we like to call those "paycheck movies". Especially The Lost World: Jurassic Park.

And, we've officially de-railed this thread. Sorry, everyone.

The writer has all the power until the script is sold.
Once it's sold, folks here tend to look at the writer as a hired hand.

If you want them to remember you... have a producer clause in your contract!

Regards,
E.D.