Normally I'd throw up around about now... but I opened up his chart and was impressed at the dedication. So I swallowed it, not bad with coffee.

That is his job though, I bet he loves doing that just as much as we love writing.

Maybe we should all get a dedications thread? Anyone that makes one for me, I will return the favour. Just put my name in the title of the thread and tell everyone how great I am. I promise, you'll get your own thread too.

Quoted from Ledbetter It's not his job here Dustin! It was something he did to help the community as a whole. Hard as it may be for you to understand, no one asked me to post this thread and I didn't do it in hope of anything in return. This community really apperciates Ray and his efforts. You want your own thread? Try doing something worthy of one. Then we'll see... Shawn.....><

Well... that went down well. Clearly, sarcasm isn't your strong point.

I meant his job as a Producer... he doing the chart is his way of doing what he loves... isn't it?

There's a time and a place for sarcasm…

On a post where people are genuinely offering appreciation is neither the time nor place.

Shawn.....><

Quoted from Ledbetter There's a time and a place for sarcasm… On a post where people are genuinely offering appreciation is neither the time nor place. Shawn.....><

That's the exact time and place for it. This isn't a wake.

Don't forget to keep reminding yourself that this thread was started out of pure appreciation for making some charts. That he wanted to do anyway... that doesn't actually help anyone but himself or possibly anyone he works with. He's looking for shorts to fit a budget... a producer I'm working with works at a grand per minute for the short he's making. So clearly that would be out of this price range... but that does not stand for every producer.

You keep pretending that this thread isn't about sticking your nose up an ass.

Quoted from CrusaderVoice RayW efforts are particularly interesting to people (like me) who have NO idea how any that works and how a script is seen through those types of eyes. I found myself reading his notes on nearly every script entered in the OWC. Regardless what I thought of the script, I was curious to see a producer's take and potential cost estimates and production obstacles.

What you don't seem to understand is that what are obstacles and cost estimates to one producer will not equate to another producer's.

Unless you work with Ray, what he thinks about production value isn't worth all that much as he is only considering his own obstacles. Indeed this is all he can do.

The best way to learn about production values is to get something made, work with a producer. Until then, keep writing and don't think about cost. Write what you want to write. Let producers worry about cost. That's their job.

Quoted from DustinBowcot What you don't seem to understand is that what are obstacles and cost estimates to one producer will not equate to another producer's.

Hey Dustin, not trying to get into an argument or anything, but surely cost estimates will be roughly similar across the board? Ie, the cost of hiring XX will be same for producer A and producer B, because the cost of the product won't change?

How did this devolve into such a clusterfuck in less than four hours? The purpose of the thread was to acknowledge the extra effort of one member. There are obviously some people who like what he does, even if it's on a morbid curiosity level. Others, it's actually helpful for (maybe they don't have an idea of what the cost of filming would be going in, but this gives them a ballpark figure). Dustin, if you don't appreciate or find value in it, don't pay attention to it. That's not exactly a foreign concept...

Quoted from DustinBowcot You keep pretending that this thread isn't about sticking your nose up an ass.

You shouldn't make comments like that unless you're man enough to say it to his face.  (in person)  And if that was the case Ledbetter would clearly mop the floor with your scrawny ass.

Only a punk makes comments like you do over the Internet.     You're so pitiful.

Quoted from Toby_E Hey Dustin, not trying to get into an argument or anything, but surely cost estimates will be roughly similar across the board? Ie, the cost of hiring XX will be same for producer A and producer B, because the cost of the product won't change?

Not exactly. It all depends what the producer has on hand. I know people that can produce a feature for less than $20K because they have all the equipment they need for shooting and for all post work. Same thing goes for locations and actors. If you have to rent an old house with a cellar it's going to cost more than if you shoot at a mansion on the beach in Miami and you happen to know the owner and they let you shoot their for free. If you live in a town with lots of hopeful actors who'll work for free, it's going to be cheaper than if you live in my town where you would have to pay for actors to travel here and pay all there expenses. See what I mean? It all depends what the producer has at hand. My short film I made, Them That's Dead, ended up having a pretty high/minute cost due to me unwittingly shooting at very difficult locations two hours out of town. So, it all depends.  

Quoted from NickSedario You shouldn't make comments like that unless you're man enough to say it to his face.  (in person)  And if that was the case Ledbetter would clearly mop the floor with your scrawny ass. Only a punk makes comments like you do over the Internet.     You're so pitiful.

Actually, I would tell him to his face. I'm very respectful to people unless they try to bullshit me, then I'm going to call it, no matter what. Where I'm from telling the truth and speaking your mind is very important. If I'm wrong, so what. You have to call it when you see it. Where I'm from it's called, being real.

If you want to big-up your friend and make out like he's a cage fighter and not actually have the guts to threaten me yourself that shows your true colours, not mine. You're always quick to jump in and unnecessarily stir the pot. I know I'm not the only one thinking that that is what this thread is about.

Quoted from Grandma Bear Not exactly. It all depends what the producer has on hand. I know people that can produce a feature for less than $20K because they have all the equipment they need for shooting and for all post work. Same thing goes for locations and actors. If you have to rent an old house with a cellar it's going to cost more than if you shoot at a mansion on the beach in Miami and you happen to know the owner and they let you shoot their for free. If you live in a town with lots of hopeful actors who'll work for free, it's going to be cheaper than if you live in my town where you would have to pay for actors to travel here and pay all there expenses. See what I mean? It all depends what the producer has at hand. My short film I made, Them That's Dead, ended up having a pretty high/minute cost due to me unwittingly shooting at very difficult locations two hours out of town. So, it all depends.

Yeah exactly... favours from friends, cameramen that come with their own camera. Even as far as selling pieces of the profit from the film, producer points. Students with access to thousands of pounds worth of equipment. There are so many different scenarios.

I feel it is damaging if we take one producer's viewpoint on what makes a short production-worthy. Which is what seems to be happening here.

Fair enough I shouldn't have said what I did about Ledbetter, but it really does look like that was his motive. He even mentions it in his second post, defending himself against an accusation I hadn't even made yet.

@ Boycott - Me stir the pot?   Nah, I just don't care for pompous, arrogant little pricks like you.  But hey, we've all got our issues.  I have plenty.   And you definitely wouldn't wanna square off with me, face to face.  I'd hit you so hard your dead relatives would feel it.  

How's that for a threat?  Feel better now?  Good, now piss off.

Quoted from NickSedario @ Boycott - Me stir the pot?   Nah, I just don't care for pompous, arrogant little pricks like you.  But hey, we've all got our issues.  I have plenty.   And you definitely wouldn't wanna square off with me, face to face.  I'd hit you so hard your dead relatives would feel it.   How's that for a threat?  Feel better now?  Good, now piss off.

Maybe you'll get the chance one day. I'd definitely like to see it.

How about you just take pictures of your dicks, email them to each other and compare sizes?

I'm just kidding, go on doing what you're doing. I'm just surprised seeing arguments like this on a forum for writers.

Schoolyard fist fight type stuff.