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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  What does identify as female mean? Moderators: bert
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DustinBowcot
Posted: January 12th, 2018, 12:01pm Report to Moderator
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What does identify as female mean? Is it possible that one could identify as female whilst having a penis and sexual interest in other females?
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FrankM
Posted: January 12th, 2018, 12:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
What does identify as female mean? Is it possible that one could identify as female whilst having a penis and sexual interest in other females?


Welcome to the 21st Century  


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: January 12th, 2018, 2:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
What does identify as female mean? Is it possible that one could identify as female whilst having a penis and sexual interest in other females?


If you shave, and tuck your penis between your legs, then yes.

The shaving part is probably optional as well.


Email them and tell them you're Gender Fluid, so sometimes you're Male and Sometimes Female and you'd love to be involved, but you can't guarantee which version of you will turn up on which day.
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eldave1
Posted: January 12th, 2018, 7:38pm Report to Moderator
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The script beginning of the logline writes itself:

In an effort to infiltrate an all-female writers retreat, a man self identifying as a woman...



My Scripts can all be seen here:

http://dlambertson.wix.com/scripts
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FrankM
Posted: January 12th, 2018, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from eldave1
The script beginning of the logline writes itself:

In an effort to infiltrate an all-female writers retreat, a man self identifying as a woman...



A friend of mine's father used some of his GI Bill money to go to a hairdresser school figuring he'd be the only straight male there. He was correct.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Don
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 2:40pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Split this off from the Writer's Lab thread to continue the discussion for those who need to work out eligibility for the Writer's Lab opportunity: http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-writingopportunities/m-1515766139/

- Don


Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

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You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
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DustinBowcot
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 3:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Mission and Values

The Writers Lab is dedicated to developing narrative feature screenplays written by women over the age of 40. We feel it is critical to nurture the voices of mature women that have not been heard and are in danger of being lost entirely.


I'm not sure this applies to anybody that isn't an actual woman. Identifying as one, even having an operation to cut bits off isn't going to make you an experienced, mature woman. It makes you somebody that has lived as a man, possibly for most of your life, and then for the rest of the time, somebody that has lived as a transsexual. They will not have the experiences and neither, therefore, the writer's voice of an actual woman. As much as they identify... it isn't real because people have not responded to them in the same way. Their experiences are simply not that of a real woman.
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khamanna
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 4:43pm Report to Moderator
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Lol that it got split off - I click on the recent threads and on top a question "What does identify as a female mean"

I think they are doing this to encourage female writers to write. Because there are many more male writers who are better in this than women. Some kind of affirmative action that refers to gender.

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DustinBowcot
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 5:09pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, I get that... what I don't understand is the 'identify' part which, to my mind, suggests that anybody, male or female, can enter so long as they identify as a female while writing the script they intend to enter. Really easy to identify as a male again afterward.

However, when I read the FAQs on the site and their mission statement, I can't find mention of somebody merely needing to identify as a woman. It seems that they're looking for real women.

No matter how much a man identifies as a woman he could never share her voice because he has never really experienced what it's like to mature as a woman. He didn't grow up as a girl, hasn't had to suffer countless lecherous advances, men assuming they are stupid, childbirth, managing to get out of bed when they have the flu... the list goes on.
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Miss Vix
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 5:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
No matter how much a man identifies as a woman he could never share her voice because he has never really experienced what it's like to mature as a woman. He didn't grow up as a girl, hasn't had to suffer countless lecherous advances, men assuming they are stupid, childbirth, managing to get out of bed when they have the flu... the list goes on.


As a trans-woman, I'll bite my tongue other than to say stop talking about that which you have no idea. There is so much ignorance in your statement that the only saving grace is that you don't mean any malice.

Quick FYI, you don't need to have lived every second as a female (or male) in order to experience life as that sex. So with regards to advances from men, just a handful of nights out provides the lecherous and misogyny that you mentioned 'real women'. If they don't know you're trans, they're telling you whatever they think you want to hear to get into your knickers and if they do know you're trans they're still saying what they think you want to hear to get you into bed.

Just 6 months living as a woman - the day-to-day life as well as the predator-filled night life - brings you up to speed let alone a year, 10 years, 30 years. If length of time was relevant then a 20 year-old's experiences aren't as valid as that of a 50 year-olds. She hasn't lived through as much, may not have had the flu or given birth. Or, to put it in terms you will understand, you don't need to have been a screenwriter as long as your peers to understand the lifestyle, issues and mindset. You just need a certain amount of experience - highs, lows, writer's block, rejections from agencies, QF'ing Nicholl etc.

The 'identify as a woman' is clearly an attempt to be inclusive. I also think such statements harm trans-people as opposed to helping them. But I know nothing about quantum physics so I don't go around saying what's what about it. Please don't do the same regarding trans.


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Miss Vix  -  January 22nd, 2018, 6:16pm
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DustinBowcot
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 6:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Miss Vix


Quick FYI, on just one of the many erroneous things you said, if you're 35, you don't need to have lived every second as a female (or male) in order to experience life as that sex. Just a handful of nights out provides the lecherous and misogyny that you mentioned 'real women'. Just 3 months living as a woman - the day-to-day life as well as the predator-filled night life - brings you up to speed let alone 12, 120, 360 months.

If length of time was relevant then a 20 year-old's experiences aren't as valid as that of a 50 year-olds. She hasn't lived through as much, may not have had the flu or given birth. Or, to put it in terms you will understand, you don't need to have been a screenwriter as long as your peers to understand the lifestyle, issuess and mindset. You just need a certain amount of experiences - highs, lows, writer's block, rejections from agencies, QF'ing Nicholl etc.

The 'identify as a woman' is clearly an attempt to be inclusive. I also think such statements harm trans-people as opposed to helping them. But I know nothing about quantum physics so I don't go around saying what's what about it. Please don't do the same regarding trans.



Ignorance begets ignorance it seems. You know more about being a female than I do because you played one for 3 months. I've lived with one for almost 20 years


Quoted Text
...if you're 35, you don't need to have lived every second as a female (or male) in order to experience life as that sex.


One's experience will be relevant to the length of time spent. Somebody that has been a woman since they were born will know far more about it than one created three months ago.


Quoted Text
Just a handful of nights out provides the lecherous and misogyny that you mentioned 'real women'.


Does it?


Quoted Text
Just 3 months living as a woman - the day-to-day life as well as the predator-filled night life - brings you up to speed let alone 12, 120, 360 months.


Wow. Predator-filled nightlife. I guess it's the places you choose to frequent... and that was a choice you made deliberately. You could have gone somewhere else, but transexuals are not always able to fit in and look 'normal'.


Quoted Text
If length of time was relevant then a 20 year-old's experiences aren't as valid as that of a 50 year-olds.


This statement does not prove that length of time is not relevant to experience. I'd love to see you prove that. Of course length of time is relevant... I'll go and watch a YouTube video on open heart surgery (there's bound to be one) and profess myself an expert after watching it three times!


Quoted Text
Or, to put it in terms you will understand...


I already understand it. It's you that's struggling and needs to make up irrelevant analogies.

I disagree that a man identifying as a woman is the same thing as being a woman. I disagree that it merely takes 3 months to understand what it's like. I do agree that a transsexual female can fully understand what it's like to be a transsexual female in three months, but an actual female... no.

If you think you can, then I believe it is you that is ignorant.
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Miss Vix
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 8:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DustinBowcot
Ignorance begets ignorance it seems. You know more about being a female than I do because you played one for 3 months.

I've lived as a woman far longer than 3 months. You clearly missed the whole point of what I said.


Quoted Text
Does it?

Yes, it does. But you wouldn't know.
Ideally you'd have a few more months under your belt but the point remains - a handful of nights is all that's needed to experience the lecherous predilections of men and appreciate what 'real women' experience.



Quoted Text
Wow. Predator-filled nightlife. I guess it's the places you choose to frequent... and that was a choice you made deliberately. You could have gone somewhere else.

I was talking about normal bars, clubs and eateries. The same places''real women' frequent. With men displaying the sexual behaviour you mentioned. Women get eyed-up and approached all the time, day or night, regardless of location. You don't need to have been born female, to have been a 6 year-old girl in a school play, to encounter the same experience, behaviour and treatment of horny men.



Quoted Text
This statement does not prove that length of time is not relevant to experience. I'd love to see you prove that. Of course length of time is relevant... I'll go and watch a YouTube video on open heart surgery (there's bound to be one) and profess myself an expert after watching it three times!

For a start, you keep gong on about 3 months and 3 times for reasons only you know. Secondly, time is relevant only to a degree - as I mentioned about trans, real women and screenwriting. Watching a heart surgery video 3 times is not enough time or experience.

Thirdly, and most crucially, there's a big difference between learning a highly-specialised skill that takes years to amass by only a select few, high-calibre individuals and the everyday occurrence of getting attention from men. in everyday settings, that everyday women experience. If only a select number of elite women experience male lust, and require years of experience and encounters to gain that knowledge, then your surgical analogy would be apt. But unfortunately for you, average-looking 19 year-olds have already been brought up to speed even though they're only had one year's (legal) access to bars and alcohol. In fact, your average 16 year-old is well-aware of male attention, how it comes, the various scenarios from poor to smooth approaches, guys they like, guys they let down gently and creeps who don't take the hint.

And this is where you've been disingenuous with the heart surgery analogy. You purposefully chose a rarified, exclusive profession - so as to create as large a gulf as possible - when you should've chosen something mundane and commonplace that everyone has experience of and which they get a handle on very quickly. You should've chosen something like subway ticket salesman or barman or burger flipper. But you didn't - because you knew that those jobs can be performed by anyone, learnt quickly and that they can amass all the experiences they're every likely to have in a matter of months. Which is exactly what I was saying about not needing to have been a woman all your life to experience life as a woman (specifically, male attention).

And to correct your mis-applied analogy, you don't have to have been a surgeon for as long as another in order to know what it's like to be a heart surgeon. Same goes for lawyers, firemen, goth and any other demographic. Anyone can transfer into that new territory and within a relatively short space of time build up the knowledge and experience that their longer-standing and 'unchanged' peer has.

I'm not going to prove anything. 1) I already said I wasn't going to say anymore and 2) you're so out of your depth about something you know nothing about that you can't possibly even begin to understand. Which takes me back round to 1).



Quoted Text
I already understand it. It's you that's struggling and needs to make up irrelevant analogies.

No, you don't understand and that's the point. Everything you said proves you don't. Otherwise you'd know my analogies were spot on.



Quoted Text
I disagree that a man identifying as a woman is the same thing as being a woman. I disagree that it merely takes 3 months to understand what it's like.

And you wouldn't know, you've not been there. You've not experienced it. You've only experienced life as a man and - most of all - being treated like a man. And that's before we even get down to the chemical, hormonal and neurological.

I do know. I've lived through it. I know the juxtaposition in life before and after. I've learnt things I never even knew existed. And you're the same. The same moves I once thought were smooth and under the radar when I lived as a guy are now recognised as overt and clumsy. And I cringe at how unaware I was. Same goes for seeing the twinkle in the eyes of every man who fancies you, wandering hands, talking to my chest and chauvinism . And this is basic stuff - nothing deeper.

Now, I've already written way more than I wanted - and this is only on the surface-level details of being chatted up by men. Which is another reason why I said I won't be discussing anymore. There's so much more - so much I know, so many nuances in all aspects of life, that demonstrate where I'm coming from but it would take too long to type, be too long to read, and you still wouldn't be able to (or willing to?) comprehend what I'd be saying.




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Miss Vix  -  January 22nd, 2018, 8:39pm
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FrankM
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 8:56pm Report to Moderator
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Not going to touch the "real woman" argument, but I think what the Writer's Lab meant is that they want to hear from women over 40. Then someone decided to get more "precise" about it (were they that worried that a trans-male would enter?) without wading into dozens of gender identifications and used some shorthand.

I identify as over 40, but not as a woman, so the whole thing is irrelevant to me anyway.


Feature-length scripts:
Who Wants to Be a Princess? (Family)
Glass House (Horror anthology)

TV pilots:
"Kord" (Fantasy)
"Mal Suerte" (Superhero)

Additional scripts are listed here.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 9:56pm Report to Moderator
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I could be totally wrong, but it's my guess that Don will sponsor anyone who identifies as a woman wether it be decades ago or more recently. For the writer's lab they want you to be female and over 40. If you win and you are transgender or something else entirely, that's up to the NYWIF people. Don is just being nice here. I've been here for so long it's almost embarrassing, but I can tell you all this, I have never seen a person being more reasonable and forgiving than Don. If you think he sometimes is unfair, it's most likely because you don't see the shit he has to deal with behind the curtains. He's being generous here. If you identify as a female and you're over 40, go ahead, submit something. If the NYWIFT have an issue with your gender identification, take it up with them.  


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Don
Posted: January 22nd, 2018, 11:21pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I could be totally wrong, but it's my guess that Don will sponsor anyone who identifies as a woman wether it be decades ago or more recently. For the writer's lab they want you to be female and over 40. If you win and you are transgender or something else entirely, that's up to the NYWIF people. Don is just being nice here. I've been here for so long it's almost embarrassing, but I can tell you all this, I have never seen a person being more reasonable and forgiving than Don. If you think he sometimes is unfair, it's most likely because you don't see the shit he has to deal with behind the curtains. He's being generous here. If you identify as a female and you're over 40, go ahead, submit something. If the NYWIFT have an issue with your gender identification, take it up with them.  


Pia, thank you for the kind words and you are entirely correct regarding the SimplyScripts sponsorship. In short, as a discussion board member, if you submit to The Writers Lab and forward me proof that you've done so, I will reimburse you the cost (via paypal).  The eligibility requirements were cut and pasted from The Writers Lab email I received announcing it was open for submissions where it stated, "Applicants must identify as female and be born on or prior to February 28, 1978. "

I note that the FAQs at: http://thewriterslab.nyc/about/frequently-asked-questions/ merely state, "The Lab supports female writers over the age of 40".

While I have emailed The Writers Lab asking them to clarify the FAQs, regardless, I will reimburse any current member of the discussion board who forwards me their entry receipt confirmation email for The Writers Lab.

- Don


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