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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Discussion of...     General Chat  ›  Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Moderators: bert
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Andrew
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 9:48am Report to Moderator
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So, how are people feeling about this?

In the wider public, there's definitely a fatigue - and to a degree a loss of magic - with the proliferation of Star Wars' movies, and yet, for me, nothing will ever quite touch on the profound, spiritual message at the heart of Star Wars; that all living things are interconnected. A simple but powerful message that resonated with me at a very young age. This is what film should do at its best.

So that's my story.

How is everyone feeling about this final chapter? How do you feel about the course of the new trilogy?

Excited?

A case of not giving a f?

Just throwing this video in, which captures the trailer music... for me (especially from 1.19 onwards), this is the best reprise of the Star Wars theme to date.



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Matthew Taylor
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 10:09am Report to Moderator
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Can't say I've enjoyed this latest trilogy. The Last Jedi being particularly awful.

I don't feel fatigued at all, I want more - but I want better. In my opinion, they are trying to recreate the original trilogy and it's failing miserably - they should have tried to be original.

I didn't get any kind of message from the original Star Wars, nothing on a deep or meaningful level - What I saw was something "new". Some badass space cowboys doing badass space cowboy stuff with interesting characters in interesting places and great aesthetics.
Hadn't seen anything like it before, it was thrilling and got me excited.

The latest trilogy is just trying to be the same - that never works out. And by the same I mean the basic plot - I still want awesome space battles and the like - but another story about a Skywalker discovering their "powers" and going from obscurity to hero of the universe... eurgh.



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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 10:22am Report to Moderator
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I think the last jedi drained the trilogy of anything it had left.

It basically killed the story the first one set up (and perhaps the whole Star Wars Universe) , left it without any cliffhangers, and has left this one feeling pointless.

There are no antagonistic forces of any relevance. The main bad guy is likeable. The ginger guy a parody figure. There is nothing to hope for or care about.

As a stand alone film, Last Jedi wasn't terrible. I sort of enjoyed it on the day, then it started making me feel bad about life over time.

It can still be turned around.. If JJ and Disney are bold enough. I'd bring Luke back, if it was me and Snoke. Pretend Johnson's film didn't exist.

In retrospect they got this new trilogy horribly wrong. They started in the wrong place, which is unforgivable really. It all should have started later, in a time of unparalleled peace in the galaxy. So that all the old guys had won.. Then an entirely new threat should have come about. The way they've done it, they made the classic films and heroes pointless.

I'd sack the entire production team if I owned Disney.
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bert
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 10:36am Report to Moderator
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Biggest problem is that Kylo Ren is so lame.  Unworthy lame.  Dare I say it -- Jar Jar lame.

There is no way to change my mind about this.  What were they thinking with this guy?

What is still worse is that I will continue muttering these sentiments all the way to the theater to watch this film.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Matthew Taylor
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films

In retrospect, they got this new trilogy horribly wrong. They started in the wrong place, which is unforgivable really. It all should have started later, in a time of unparalleled peace in the galaxy. So that all the old guys had won... Then an entirely new threat should have come about. The way they've done it, they made the classic films and heroes pointless.

I'd sack the entire production team if I owned Disney.


Nail on the head - I feel like they tried to stick to the original formula rather than risk being original.

For me, the ending of the original trilogy set up the next movies in a pretty logical way.
The Galactic Empire was an autocracy, and it fell - that leaves a massive power void in the universe. A power void that any number of species/armies in the Star Wars universe would have tried to fill - the rebels were in no position to mediate the turmoil that the fall of the Empire would bring. Galactic war ensues... (obviously with lightsabers still   )
Basically "War of the Roses" in space is what I would have liked to see - but that's probably just me.

Instead we basically just got the Empire back and an extremely long and slow car chase in space.




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Zack
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 11:08am Report to Moderator
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The biggest problem with the new trilogy is that it doesn't seem like they had any sort of plan in place. Rian Johnson was more interested in getting across his social justice message than he was in telling a satisfying and logical story.

I've heard some pretty awful rumors about this new film. If they turn out to be even partially true, people will riot.
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Andrew
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 11:49am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert
Biggest problem is that Kylo Ren is so lame.  Unworthy lame.  Dare I say it -- Jar Jar lame.

There is no way to change my mind about this.  What were they thinking with this guy?

What is still worse is that I will continue muttering these sentiments all the way to the theater to watch this film.


Haha! Yeah, I think most people will go will that type of feeling.

For my part, I really enjoyed the first movie back, and sympathised with JJ Abrams, because he was picking up a property that is unrivalled in its cultural impact, yet was deeply contaminated by the second trilogy.

To try and resuscitate it they tried to inject with such nostalgia to imbue the new series with the energy of the first trilogy. In my view, they were largely successful in that goal, but from a story perspective there were definitely some issues around what is the point in the context of this universe for extending the story. Still, I think they did a solid enough job, which was then squandered by The Last Jedi.

TLJ appeared to have a largely destructive attitude towards what has gone before, and seemed desperate to craft its own image, and to hell with how that fitted within the universe or this third trilogy. So once again, JJ Abrams is handed a pretty nasty hand to deal with. That said, on subsequent viewings, I came to find TLJ as a very emotional movie, and settled on contextualising it within the broader landscape as incongruent, but ultimately a discordant riff within the braoder piece.

Agree with a lot of criticisms about lightweight villains, and wafer thin trilogy plot, and yet, despite all the obvious flaws, I cannot help but be drawn in. I'm actively going in and seeing this film as part of a 9 movie series; a single episode that doesn't destroy what came before, but rather sits within it. Unlikely to be a top 3 within the series, but hell, it's fucking Star Wars!

It's a little like how I feel about the David Brent movie. Brent, and the UK Office, is my favourite comedy of all-time. Is the movie in the same stratosphere as the show? No chance, but you know, I'll never not want to see the character, because I have such love and affection for him.

I think that's probably the best way for me to embrace Star Wars now. Check my mind at the door, and just bring my heart and give it over entirely!


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JEStaats
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 12:30pm Report to Moderator
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No sh*t, there I was....

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I was 13 when A New Hope came out and it was a whole new world when I walked out of the theatre. Since episode 4 & 5, it's been nothing but a letdown. Of the recent movies (ep. 7, 8, Rogue One, and Solo), Rogue One was the standout for me. A 'one & done' effort in the spirit of the original. I haven't even been able to sit through Solo.

The Mandalorian, on the other hand, is keeping me on the hook. If it has some tie to Rise of Skywalker, I'll have to go see it in the theatre. Otherwise, I'll wait it out.
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Zack
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Quoted from JEStaats
I was 13 when A New Hope came out and it was a whole new world when I walked out of the theatre. Since episode 4 & 5, it's been nothing but a letdown. Of the recent movies (ep. 7, 8, Rogue One, and Solo), Rogue One was the standout for me. A 'one & done' effort in the spirit of the original. I haven't even been able to sit through Solo.

The Mandalorian, on the other hand, is keeping me on the hook. If it has some tie to Rise of Skywalker, I'll have to go see it in the theatre. Otherwise, I'll wait it out.


Agree that Rogue One is the best of the recent batch of star wars films.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: November 26th, 2019, 1:59pm Report to Moderator
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The worst thing about Star Wars is all the absolute bell ****s, including mainstream press, who have to plaster spoilers everywhere.

I got stung on Facebook an hour before my show time, this time major spoilers are already everywhere.

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James McClung
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Quoted from Andrew
A case of not giving a f?


You asked. Most definitely.  

Hopefully, fans can catch a break with the new one though. Even from the sidelines, the new films seem increasingly mired with discontent. And having already suffered through the whole prequel trilogy, no less. Rogue One seems to be a crowd pleaser at least.


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SAC
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Quoted from Andrew
I think that's probably the best way for me to embrace Star Wars now. Check my mind at the door, and just bring my heart and give it over entirely!


When I was a wee lad in 1977 my Dad took me to see A New Hope. We were both amazed at the time, wound up taking my Mother later on. We all loved it. Fast forward to...

The Force Awakens, and having the opportunity to take my six-year old to see it. When "A long time ago..." came onto the screen I knew I was done for. I actually loved it -- I felt it was a good place to start and JJ Abrams actually did a nice job with it. Then again, I'm a sap. A sucker for an emotional moment, and this had it. I'm just hoping JJ can do it again and give this a fitting ending.


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Matthew Taylor


Nail on the head - I feel like they tried to stick to the original formula rather than risk being original.

For me, the ending of the original trilogy set up the next movies in a pretty logical way.
The Galactic Empire was an autocracy, and it fell - that leaves a massive power void in the universe. A power void that any number of species/armies in the Star Wars universe would have tried to fill - the rebels were in no position to mediate the turmoil that the fall of the Empire would bring. Galactic war ensues... (obviously with lightsabers still   )
Basically "War of the Roses" in space is what I would have liked to see - but that's probably just me.

Instead we basically just got the Empire back and an extremely long and slow car chase in space.





One of the things about Star Wars is that it's one continuous story (or at least was, till 40 years of stuff got canned with the Disney acquisition).

And one of the peculiarities of that, is that critical information often ends up not on screen, but in books or comics.

There's a trilogy of books entitled Aftermath which are about the period you're describing.

Then there's a book called Bloodline which is about Leia and why she didn't become the Peace Time ruler, and shows her finding out about a new threat on the Edge of the galaxy.

There's a Journey to Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker comic as well, which reveals all the training Rey has been going through, being trained in the Force by Leia., shows that both her and Kylo are stronger than Luke and Vader put together....and makes a massive reveal about something, that I'm really surprised they've already let out of the bag.  It's extremely poor, though.

And there's another book, which is about how Poe, Rey and Finn are trying to rebuild the resistance, which is the direct prequel to Rise of Sky walker.

I'll be honest, the writers they 've hired for the books have done a pretty good job making it all make sense. The problems with ALL the main characters aren't going away, though. Every single one of them is as dull as dishwater. I' D go as far as to say they are all dead in the water and unsaveable.

Rey is almost tragically dull. Finn pointless. Rose embarrassing. Leia tired. Poe is a very poor imitation of Solo. There's not a single new character that has worked.

You still really need to read them all to get a full sense of what's happening. Rightly or wrongly.

In other news, Thrawn, considered by many to be the greatest Star Wars villain of all, is officially canon again.

If anyone wants me to post a quick summary, let me know. I don't think you can white text on here, so there may be major spoilers for those that just watch the films.

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Matthew Taylor
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I was aware there were a lot of books - never jumped into any of them. When I say I am a big fan of Star Wars - I'm not that big - I just stick to the movies and TV shows.

But seems there was a lot of material already there for them to work from - strange that the next movie trilogy wouldn't focus on the aftermath stories.

Having the old characters come back for these films reminds me of professional wrestling - I turned it on recently and saw they still have to rely on the likes of Undertaker, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy and the Big Show - Guy's from the 90's because the current stock are as dull as a doorknob.





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Andrew
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The future is terrifying.

There simply has to be a script at the studios about a character desperately trying to prove their innocence after being deep faked.



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Andrew
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Quoted from SAC


When I was a wee lad in 1977 my Dad took me to see A New Hope. We were both amazed at the time, wound up taking my Mother later on. We all loved it. Fast forward to...

The Force Awakens, and having the opportunity to take my six-year old to see it. When "A long time ago..." came onto the screen I knew I was done for. I actually loved it -- I felt it was a good place to start and JJ Abrams actually did a nice job with it. Then again, I'm a sap. A sucker for an emotional moment, and this had it. I'm just hoping JJ can do it again and give this a fitting ending.


That's what has always made Star Wars so important. It really perfectly captures - and arguably created - the difference between movie and film. And all that means for cinema experience.


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Andrew
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Quoted from James McClung


You asked. Most definitely.  

Hopefully, fans can catch a break with the new one though. Even from the sidelines, the new films seem increasingly mired with discontent. And having already suffered through the whole prequel trilogy, no less. Rogue One seems to be a crowd pleaser at least.


Haha! You know you'll be going to that multiplex!


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Andrew
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
The worst thing about Star Wars is all the absolute bell ****s, including mainstream press, who have to plaster spoilers everywhere.

I got stung on Facebook an hour before my show time, this time major spoilers are already everywhere.


Can see why Nolan is so on top of secrecy on sets. In today's world Empire would've been ruined. Imagine a spoiler like that being revealed.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: November 27th, 2019, 5:23am Report to Moderator
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That's absolutely hilarious.
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Zack
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


In other news, Thrawn, considered by many to be the greatest Star Wars villain of all, is officially canon again.

If anyone wants me to post a quick summary, let me know. I don't think you can white text on here, so there may be major spoilers for those that just watch the films.


I'll bite, Rick. Spoil it for me.

Never been one to read a lot of books or comics, I did however play some of the Star Wars videogames. Knights of the Old Republic is absolutely fantastic and still one of the best stories in all of Star Wars, at least in my opinion.
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Andrew
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
That's absolutely hilarious.


Conspiracy time... it’s Lucas deep faking himself!


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Andrew
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Enjoy.



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Old Time Wesley
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The Force Awakens is infinitely re-watchable and I have done so, that does not make it good but it says the movie isn't bad.

Here's an opinion from the guy who cried during the trailer of Deadpool... Star Wars is not a mind blowing epic series  of the best films ever made.

It's good, not great and most of it is average and overrated but I love it for all the flaws.

Can you ruin a series by making more lore?  I want the old republic and no more skywalkers.


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Andrew
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I watched Rogue One the other night.

Surprised by how much I liked it on a second viewing.

The ending is beautifully done, and it felt like a much better template for future Star Wars movies than The Last Jedi.

Because I'm a geek with no life, I'm watching a Force Awakens, Last Jedi and Rise triumvirate on Wednesday. Be interesting to see the trilogy in one go like that.


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PrussianMosby
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To me they actually f***** it up with TFA. The premise, regarding the foregone circumstances, was just not reflected well and have been falsely interpreted imo.

We left with the Republic winning, right?? But then they present a completely different world: The dark side is better than ever - the Jedi and their secrets are hidden in a cringe-worthy temple where even spies are welcome. They literally lie on the ground.

This felt completely illogical, as if they couldn't find a growing threat coming from the 'dark side', while the 'world' has actually gone fine.

No. They've put it completely upside down. The Force has had to awaken of course -  and the dark side owns a new 'Death Star Planet' already. Cheap storytelling, effective garbage.



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CameronD
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I'm at work and bored, so forgive my upcoming rant.

HUGE Star Wars fan growing up. I mean, I have a huge box of open figures sitting in my closet cause I actually played with them. I was super excited for a new trilogy and had high hopes when it was first announced as the prequels really have not aged well and I wanted to see what could be done with the universe once George was gone. Huge respect for him and all he's done, but Episodes 1-3 are all on him cause he had so much control in every aspect of their creation.

Loved The Force Awakens. It was fun, had a sense of adventure, and felt more like the original trilogy than the prequels, even if intentional, still not a bad thing. When the film first came out I remember how excited everybody was to see where Finn, Rey, and Poe would go next as they were likable. Kylo was interesting as a spoiled brat type villain and the film left a lot of mystery for the franchise to explore going forward. What happened to Luke? Who is Snoke? Who is Rey? How is she so powerful? What happens to the galaxy after the new Republic was destroyed?

Jump to the Last Jedi and it just shit bricks all over everything.

First of all, from a screenwriter's perceptive, the film's plot is inexcusably a circle. The film starts with the Resistance on the run from the FO after a huge defeat, we know nothing of Snoke or Rey's origins, and Luke is a non factor. Fast forward to the end and the Resistance is still on the run from a huge defeat, we know nothing about Rey and Snoke, and Luke is again a non factor. It's 2 hours of nothing changing.

The next big mistake is that TLJ literally takes places 24-48 hours after TFA. There's no time to tell an epic story and let events prior breathe when we are rushing to pick up right after the last film ended and it causes soooooo many problems. Why make this choice in the first place? What about TLJ's story would force you to continue right after TFA that you had to pick up right where it leaves off? It does so little to advance the story that it's forgettable. I have no doubt fans will be able to watch ep VII into IX with much of the story still intact.

To make matters worse, the film totally ignores the events that literally just happened which is dumbfounding given the choice to deliberately begin where it does. For example:

Poe just saved the day for everybody by blowing up Starkiller base yesterday, yet is treated like a moron here by everybody for no reason.

The galactic government was just obliterated, (5 planets destroyed!) and nobody even notices or cares. Holy hell, the people on the Casino planet either haven't head the news yet or don't give a shit since it's business as usual there apparently.

When stuck in their slow motion space chase, (another screenwriting homerun) Poe comes up with the bright idea to call up Moz Kaneda for help. Problem is, Poe doesn't know who she is. Only Finn has met her before and even then fleetingly before he bailed her bar to run away.

Rey just picked up a lightsaber a day ago but with a day or two of "training" from Luke she's mowing down imperial guards and storming Star Destroyers. ??????


As mentioned above, their is no credible villain to ever put the heroes in danger. The FO has the last of the Resistance dead in their sights for the majority of the movie and does nothing about it. Excuse me, they send 3, THREE, jesus fucking Christ, 3 TIE fighters to intercept them. The yo mama joke at the beginning totally turns them into Keystone cops and also kills any tone the movie was trying to build in the first 60 seconds.

The middle act on the Casino is a perfect example of padding in a script when the writer doesn't know how to get his characters to the final act. It adds nothing to the film. Period. I mean, Finn's mission there ends in failure and doesn't push the story forward in any way. He could just stay back on the home ship for the entire film and the plot wouldn't even change.

The entire theme of the film is built up around destroying the past (with a blow torch) and moving on o something new. Commendable and that could be interesting territory if the film meant it. But alas, at the end all those themes are tossed away as we end up reinforcing the previous status quo even though the film said doing so was useless. Rey will become a Jedi and the order will live on. Without any new ideas, Kylo once assuming power just decides to keep blowing up rebels because.

Besides Kylo Ren and Luke, nobody really has much of an arc. Rey is still a Mary Sue for no good reason. Finn as mentioned is useless though he does have a "moment" in the end it's taken away from him. Rose finds love? Poe spends the film in the dog house and pretty much stays there throughout.

There's a lot more to hate on. but those are the big ones that come to mind with the script. The end result is, though I'll see Skywalker, I'm not super excited and will be glad this part of Star Wars history is done with. And I really hate seeing it limp across the finish line. But as the middle act of the larger story, TLJ just ran the franchise into a brick wall. It's the kind of story Lucasfilm would routinely turn into a comic book or video game, and as TFA 1.5 it wouldn't be so terrible. But as a stand alone film in the saga, inexcusable.


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CameronD
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Quoted from PrussianMosby
To me they actually f***** it up with TFA. The premise, regarding the foregone circumstances, was just not reflected well and have been falsely interpreted imo.

We left with the Republic winning, right?? But then they present a completely different world: The dark side is better than ever - the Jedi and their secrets are hidden in a cringe-worthy temple where even spies are welcome. They literally lie on the ground.

This felt completely illogical, as if they couldn't find a growing threat coming from the 'dark side', while the 'world' has actually gone fine.

No. They've put it completely upside down. The Force has had to awaken of course -  and the dark side owns a new 'Death Star Planet' already. Cheap storytelling, effective garbage.


Agree. They were lazy and just wanted to hit the reset button back to the way things were in OT. Boring and it really did handicap them when starting over.



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Zack
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Quoted from Andrew
I watched Rogue One the other night.

Surprised by how much I liked it on a second viewing.

The ending is beautifully done, and it felt like a much better template for future Star Wars movies than The Last Jedi.



The last hour of Rogue One is some of the best Star Wars action put on film. And the Vader scene in the corridor. Amazing.

I also really appreciated that they fixed an annoying plot hole from A New Hope and explained why the Death Star had such an idiotic design flaw.

Rogue One might just be my third favorite Star Wars film.  

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Zack  -  December 16th, 2019, 4:19pm
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Zack
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Quoted from CameronD
I'm at work and bored, so forgive my upcoming rant.

HUGE Star Wars fan growing up. I mean, I have a huge box of open figures sitting in my closet cause I actually played with them. I was super excited for a new trilogy and had high hopes when it was first announced as the prequels really have not aged well and I wanted to see what could be done with the universe once George was gone. Huge respect for him and all he's done, but Episodes 1-3 are all on him cause he had so much control in every aspect of their creation.

Loved The Force Awakens. It was fun, had a sense of adventure, and felt more like the original trilogy than the prequels, even if intentional, still not a bad thing. When the film first came out I remember how excited everybody was to see where Finn, Rey, and Poe would go next as they were likable. Kylo was interesting as a spoiled brat type villain and the film left a lot of mystery for the franchise to explore going forward. What happened to Luke? Who is Snoke? Who is Rey? How is she so powerful? What happens to the galaxy after the new Republic was destroyed?

Jump to the Last Jedi and it just shit bricks all over everything.

First of all, from a screenwriter's perceptive, the film's plot is inexcusably a circle. The film starts with the Resistance on the run from the FO after a huge defeat, we know nothing of Snoke or Rey's origins, and Luke is a non factor. Fast forward to the end and the Resistance is still on the run from a huge defeat, we know nothing about Rey and Snoke, and Luke is again a non factor. It's 2 hours of nothing changing.

The next big mistake is that TLJ literally takes places 24-48 hours after TFA. There's no time to tell an epic story and let events prior breathe when we are rushing to pick up right after the last film ended and it causes soooooo many problems. Why make this choice in the first place? What about TLJ's story would force you to continue right after TFA that you had to pick up right where it leaves off? It does so little to advance the story that it's forgettable. I have no doubt fans will be able to watch ep VII into IX with much of the story still intact.

To make matters worse, the film totally ignores the events that literally just happened which is dumbfounding given the choice to deliberately begin where it does. For example:

Poe just saved the day for everybody by blowing up Starkiller base yesterday, yet is treated like a moron here by everybody for no reason.

The galactic government was just obliterated, (5 planets destroyed!) and nobody even notices or cares. Holy hell, the people on the Casino planet either haven't head the news yet or don't give a shit since it's business as usual there apparently.

When stuck in their slow motion space chase, (another screenwriting homerun) Poe comes up with the bright idea to call up Moz Kaneda for help. Problem is, Poe doesn't know who she is. Only Finn has met her before and even then fleetingly before he bailed her bar to run away.

Rey just picked up a lightsaber a day ago but with a day or two of "training" from Luke she's mowing down imperial guards and storming Star Destroyers. ??????


As mentioned above, their is no credible villain to ever put the heroes in danger. The FO has the last of the Resistance dead in their sights for the majority of the movie and does nothing about it. Excuse me, they send 3, THREE, jesus fucking Christ, 3 TIE fighters to intercept them. The yo mama joke at the beginning totally turns them into Keystone cops and also kills any tone the movie was trying to build in the first 60 seconds.

The middle act on the Casino is a perfect example of padding in a script when the writer doesn't know how to get his characters to the final act. It adds nothing to the film. Period. I mean, Finn's mission there ends in failure and doesn't push the story forward in any way. He could just stay back on the home ship for the entire film and the plot wouldn't even change.

The entire theme of the film is built up around destroying the past (with a blow torch) and moving on o something new. Commendable and that could be interesting territory if the film meant it. But alas, at the end all those themes are tossed away as we end up reinforcing the previous status quo even though the film said doing so was useless. Rey will become a Jedi and the order will live on. Without any new ideas, Kylo once assuming power just decides to keep blowing up rebels because.

Besides Kylo Ren and Luke, nobody really has much of an arc. Rey is still a Mary Sue for no good reason. Finn as mentioned is useless though he does have a "moment" in the end it's taken away from him. Rose finds love? Poe spends the film in the dog house and pretty much stays there throughout.

There's a lot more to hate on. but those are the big ones that come to mind with the script. The end result is, though I'll see Skywalker, I'm not super excited and will be glad this part of Star Wars history is done with. And I really hate seeing it limp across the finish line. But as the middle act of the larger story, TLJ just ran the franchise into a brick wall. It's the kind of story Lucasfilm would routinely turn into a comic book or video game, and as TFA 1.5 it wouldn't be so terrible. But as a stand alone film in the saga, inexcusable.


Agree 100% with everything here. I hate The Last Jedi. Not just because of how awful it is, but because it actually killed Star Wars for me. I'm not excited about The Rise of Skywalker, just like I wasn't excited about Solo.

One thing that REALLY bugged me was how Finn was handled in The Last Jedi. Dude just had a lightsabe sliced across his back. Yet he's running around like nothing happened. He should have been the one in a coma the whole movie, not Leia.

And when Finn and Rose are on that stupid Casino planet, they completely ignore those poor slave children so they can save the retarded space horses. WTF!? This kind of stupid hurts my brain.
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CameronD
Posted: December 16th, 2019, 5:57pm Report to Moderator
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Still bored at work. Looong and slow day as the kids get ready for finals and winter break, lol

So since I have little to do, if Disney paid me, here's how I'd script out TLJ considering what was set up in TFA. Also, I have seen none of the Skywalker spoilers out there so if anything matches up, it's pure coincidence.

I'd start with Rey being chased by wild some beasts on that island planet, exhausted and scared. Only when she finds a place to hide and calm down does she hear Luke's voice in her head to focus, mind her surroundings and manage her fear. She does and uses the force to find escape. Luke greets her with the test over and scolds her a bit lovingly to not get so caught up in the moment. A few months have passed since TFA and Rey is deep into her Jedi training with Luke acting as a bit of a sarcastic and crotchety old mentor to her. Think Obi Wan mixed with Pai Mei from Kill Bill. Rey's progressed but still has a lot to learn with the force, the Jedi and her "destiny". She's eager to learn and enjoys her powers and abilities. However, she often gets carried away, is impatient, and Luke holds deep worries about that.

Cut to Kylo enduring his "training" at the hands of Snoke who painfully does some kind of force muscle spasm torture on him for every little wrong answer or failure he makes during it. The more he hates the more powerful he will become and that is what holds him back. Snoke sadistically enjoys abusing him like one might a dog during training, even if there is a danger that dog may turn on you. However, since there's still a hint of light, and therefore weakness in Kylo, Snoke wants to beat it out of him. In a weird way, we may even fee sorry for Kylo's terrible plight.

Next Poe, Finn, and Chewie hot dogging their way through a FO blockade with some valuable supplies for the remainder of the Resistance in a speedy moonshiner type ship. They escape the swarm of TIEs and hyperdrive away to rendezvous with their fleet in hiding and on the run.  

Their ship comes out of hyperspace to find a rag tag fleet of resistance, New Republic, and straggler ships on the run in space. Most are damaged. Some are being repaired in flight as they dock. Since the TFA the Resistance has had to fight to stay one step ahead of the FO, as they're consonantly being hunted across the galaxy. Rey is MIA. Supplies are low, allies are few, nerves are shot. Worlds are falling to the FO's blitz across the galaxy or surrendering without a fight.

No sooner do they disembark are they called into an emergency meeting with Ackbar and Leia. Bothan spies have intercepted communications that the FO is planning their next attack on a critical planet in the system and the Resistance is desperate to strike back to hold back the tide, but also galvanize the galaxy to fight back. So with a handful of fighters and troops, as no more can be spared, the boys are sent to the planet to meet the people there and help plan their resistance to strike a blow to the FO.

Rey and Luke eat dinner as Rey keeps eagerly asking him fan girl type questions. What were the Clone Wars like? Tell me how you blew the Death Star up again. When can she make her own lightsaber. And Vader. LOTS of questions about Vader. Very specific questions she shouldn't even know about. Things Luke may not even know about his father. Luke is disturbed but this isnt the first time she's done this so he tries to pass it off in front of her. As she leaves the table the ghosts of Yoda and Obi Wan appear before Luke and they hate to admit to him, but the girl is getting worse with the Vader questions and even they are confused. Turns out Luke has been deliberately stalling her training per their advice until they can be certain of what Rey is exactly. The old masters are stuck in their methodical ways and worried about a Vader 2.0, but Luke knows the galaxy needs her and grows impatient, plus he believes in Rey and wants to give her a chance to prove herself to them once and for all. So against Yoda and Obi-Wan's wishes, he decides to take her to Dagoboah , and the cave, to complete/speed up her training.

Cut to Hux, in the dog house, leading a contingent of FO forces as they clean up the final occupation of another world. Snoke's hologram appears before him and tells him his new mission is to capture the planet Poe and company are heading to. It holds some special Sith artifact he's been looking for and ravenously needs. Hux protests he needs time to resupply and for reinforcements, but Snoke has none of it, and Hux, desperate and eager to get in his good graces again abides promising swift victory. Snoke isn't worried and knows he will come through since he's sending Kylo and his Knights of Ren to observe and make sure this critical planet is taken without issue. On a dime Hux orders his men into their new mission scared and worried.

Poe, Finn and Chewie's forces sneak into the planet but are attacked by hostile flying animals in the atmosphere. A bit of fancy flying to lose them and they find the small capitol city, nearly abandoned. Most of the wealthy who could afford it have left weeks ago, leaving only the poor behind. When they step out of the ship they are surrounded and captured by a rag tag group of 7 warriors who have sworn to defend the remaining people against the coming onslaught. The 7 consist of a few bounty hunters, a droid, and surprisingly, two "Jedi" survivors of Luke's school.

Luke and Rey arrive at Dagoboah near Yoda's old hut, which is totally overgrown and in ruins. Luke says this is where he trained to become a Jedi and is where Rey will finish her training as well. He sends her into the cave to confront her fears and she too is attacked by a visage of Darth Vader. Like Luke before her, she ignites her lightsaber to duel and quickly decapitates him. Vader's mask rolls in front her blown open at the face. She picks it. Looks. Inside, the face of Anakin stares back at her.

She comes out white as a ghost, confused, and lost. So too is Luke, maybe more so than her, since he remembers his experience in the cave and is perplexed by this sudden reveal. Suddenly the disembodied voice of Qui-Gon shouts out, "Anakin!" and his line about the chosen one meant to bring balance back to the force. Yoda and Obi-Wan's ghosts appear before then now, both distraught, their worst fears realized. They never told Luke what they were most afraid of, that Rey, having appeared seemingly out of nowhere and so strong in the force, well they only remembered one student as naturally talented as her. The only explanation is that she IS the reincarnation of Anakin Skwalker. To which Rey responds to Luke, "I, am your father?"


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CameronD  -  December 16th, 2019, 6:15pm
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Andrew
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Quoted from Zack


The last hour of Rogue One is some of the best Star Wars action put on film. And the Vader scene in the corridor. Amazing.

I also really appreciated that they fixed an annoying plot hole from A New Hope and explained why the Death Star had such an idiotic design flaw.

Rogue One might just be my third favorite Star Wars film.  


Completely agree, mate.

Talking of favourite Star Wars films, and because I saw it on Twitter yesterday, what's the ranking of Star Wars films for everyone?

Me:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Rogue One
5. Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Last Jedi
8. Solo
9. Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones


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Zack
Posted: December 17th, 2019, 9:53am Report to Moderator
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1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Solo
9. Attack of the Clones
10. The Last Jedi
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SAC
Posted: December 17th, 2019, 10:22am Report to Moderator
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Been hearing lots of conflicting reports now after the premiere. Some said it's a slap in the face to Rian Johnson, that it Abrams over corrects him. Others are calling it epic, with a fantastic finale. We'll just have to wait and see!


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JEStaats
Posted: December 18th, 2019, 6:52pm Report to Moderator
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No sh*t, there I was....

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OMG, I just read the Forbes review..."worst Star Wars movie ever." It's not looking good for an epic finale.
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: December 18th, 2019, 6:57pm Report to Moderator
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The Metacritic for it has fallen from 54 to 53 in the past 7 hours...


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MarkItZero
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"It’s not just that Rise of Skywalker undoes Last Jedi’s “it’s not your franchise anymore” metaphors—aimed at a generation that grew up loving Star Wars and then allowed two Palpatine-ish leaders (George W. Bush and Trump) to come into power—for generic “don’t worry, Star Wars is still the best!” fan bait"

--Forbes "professional" critic

The Last Jedi was the first movie that ever made me put my hands over my face to hide from the embarrassment of what I was watching on screen.

I'll be skipping this next one. Instead, I will watch Roadhouse again. Because Roadhouse is ten thousand times better than all Hollywood action movies nowadays.


That rug really tied the room together.
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: December 18th, 2019, 7:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MarkItZero
I'll be skipping this next one. Instead, I will watch Roadhouse again. Because Roadhouse is ten thousand times better than all Hollywood action movies nowadays.


Badass '90s action-fest time. Queue up Die Hard With a Vengeance, Cliffhanger, Sudden Death and Con Air. That'd be a hell of a fun night.


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MarkItZero
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Quoted from Mr. Blonde


Badass '90s action-fest time. Queue up Die Hard With a Vengeance, Cliffhanger, Sudden Death and Con Air. That'd be a hell of a fun night.


The Force is strong with this one.


That rug really tied the room together.
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ghost and_ghostie gal
Posted: December 18th, 2019, 9:24pm Report to Moderator
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I have a very bad habit of going into movies with a cynical attitude and I have no plans to break that habit here.


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Warren
Posted: December 18th, 2019, 9:59pm Report to Moderator
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Going to see this today, can't say I'm really looking forward to it, but it's an escape from the hell that is Sydney at the moment.


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Warren
Posted: December 19th, 2019, 2:56am Report to Moderator
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So there were definitely some positives to seeing Rise of Skywalker today, I got out of the heat and smoke and when it was finished a nice southerly had blown most of the heat and smoke away... That's probably the end of the positives.

MAYBE SPOILERS - Not going to go out of my way to spoil anything, but just in case I do, you have been warned.

Oh god damn, what a dumpster fire of a movie this is. Can you dislocate an eye ball, I think I rolled my eyes so many times I may have.

Rey is the most ridiculous character ever, she is godlike to the point that you are never in any doubt that she will overcome EVERYTHING that comes her way. From her very first appearance on screen I think I made an audible groan. I just hate her so much!

This film is filled with terrible, like awful dialogue and so much exposition it's not funny, but I guess it had to be. They had to set up so much BS that wasn't in the first 2 films, they had to fill in so many blanks that they made, and when they weren't doing that they were literally telling the audience what was happening because we are all a bunch of morons.

Not one of these characters is likeable, even the ones we know and love are reduced to unlikable characters.

Actually I'll give it one thing, it looks amazing, everything looks amazing, but who cares! The plot is thin at best, the characters are f@#king terrible and there are no stakes, even death isn't a problem anymore.

What an utter piece of shit. Star Wars is cancelled.


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Andrew
Posted: December 19th, 2019, 9:49am Report to Moderator
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Ahhh, man.

Extremely disappointing, to say the least.

It's not a poorly made movie, and the scaffolding is in place, with perfomances all hitting fine, the aesthetics and set pieces being what they should, an appeal to the sensibilities of fans, etc.

What's missing is heart, and a hard to describe sense that this just isn't a Star Wars movie. It feels more like a Marvel movie than a Star Wars movie, but doesn't even achieve that, falling instead somewhere in between the two.

Clearly it's lacking an overarching vision and sense of direction narratively, with the well documented fracas on TLJ leaving the sequel trilogy in a no man's land.

Force Awakens, in my view, really did feel like a Star Wars movie. It managed to hit the sweet spot between nostalgia and opening up the possibilities of a new era, whilst decontaminating the brand after the prequel triology. Of course, TLJ came in and decided to act as a fresh take, and paid very little attention to continuity, which is where the real problems come in. That said, FA did set up some narrative cul-de-sacs which has plagued the entirety of the trilogy.

There's just really no heart here, no stakes or investment in the journey, a truly bizarre arc for both Rey and Ren, and a First Order that has no purpose to exist within the confines of the story.

Just feel a little gutted to see the wonder stripped from the series.


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PrussianMosby
Posted: December 20th, 2019, 7:38pm Report to Moderator
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Oi. The movie is released. And this would be should be the hottest thread atm. My controversial post may have scared people off, or I don't know... It will be deleted. Best wishes Alex



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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 20th, 2019, 8:57pm Report to Moderator
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Overall, I loved it.

At times to felt like it was trying so, so hard to make us like it. The analogy that came to mind was a girlfriend you're with who really loves you and you've gone off her, and she's doing everything she can, bending over backwards to make you happy, but you're not feeling it.

However, it won me the over by the end, restored the legacy of the old films and left it all tied up nicely.

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Scar Tissue Films  -  December 20th, 2019, 9:31pm
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Warren
Posted: December 20th, 2019, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
restored the legacy of the old films and left it all tied up nicely.


Not sure we watched the same film. Interested to know how you think it restored the legacy if you don't mind sharing?


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 21st, 2019, 1:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Warren


Not sure we watched the same film. Interested to know how you think it restored the legacy if you don't mind sharing?


MAJOR SPOILERS


MAJOR SPOILERS

LOOK AWAY IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT.

1. Treated the older characters with some respect, unlike the last film.
2. Made more sense of Han's death from the first film and gave it more meaning.
3. Gave us a more fitting Luke, although he looked silly.
4. Bringing all the jedi together inside of Rey was very touching for me. Hearing all the voices of Obi Wan, Qii Jon, Ashoka, Anakin, Mace Windu, Yoda etc.

It all made it feel like they were part of a bigger victory... Destroying the Sith completely and healed some wounds for me.

It really tried so hard to give fans what they wanted, and for me he did about the best job possible after what had come before. I thought Abrams did well.



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Warren
Posted: December 21st, 2019, 4:48am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


MAJOR SPOILERS


MAJOR SPOILERS

LOOK AWAY IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT.

1. Treated the older characters with some respect, unlike the last film.
2. Made more sense of Han's death from the first film and gave it more meaning.
3. Gave us a more fitting Luke, although he looked silly.
4. Bringing all the jedi together inside of Rey was very touching for me. Hearing all the voices of Obi Wan, Qii Jon, Ashoka, Anakin, Mace Windu, Yoda etc.

It all made it feel like they were part of a bigger victory... Destroying the Sith completely and healed some wounds for me.

It really tried so hard to give fans what they wanted, and for me he did about the best job possible after what had come before. I thought Abrams did well.





Fair enough...can't say I agree, but thanks for clarifying.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 21st, 2019, 5:02am Report to Moderator
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Star Wars is a funny beast, everyone has their own version of it in their heads.

It's also strange because it can only really be understood if you follow all the novels, comics, cartoons and games.

And you can also only understand it in hindsight.

They even had key info out in the Fortnite game recently, where they revealed the message from the Emperor which wasn't in the film itself :

"At last the work of generations is complete", "The great error is corrected. The day of victory is at hand. The day of revenge. The day of the Sith!"

It's quite a strange thing to do, because the majority are going to miss lots of things, but presumably it also gives every release, no matter what it is, a validity.


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SAC
Posted: December 22nd, 2019, 11:17pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, just got back from seeing this with my son. We both enjoyed it a lot. It tried a little hard in spots, and for some reason I thought Poe's character was never well defined throughout this and the other two. Never felt particularly connected to him, and I tried. Perhaps it was his acting, I dunno. Anyway, a minor distraction.

It tied up nicely. Thinking on it, bringing back Palpatine was a great idea. Truly evil. the puppet master pulling the strings all along. In fact, when he was first introduced,  I thought of the Wizard of Oz because he kind of appeared to be the man behind the curtain. I wonder if that was intentional. Next time I speak with JJ I'll be sure to ask!

And, I might add, the very end scene was perfect. Just perfect.

In my opinion, too many people who did not like this film are the kind of Star Wars purists who have read every book, every comic and played every game. And who go to Star Wars parties, with like-minded folks, dressed as their favorite Star Wars character.

I just watched and enjoyed.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 4:03am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from SAC
Yeah, just got back from seeing this with my son. We both enjoyed it a lot. It tried a little hard in spots, and for some reason I thought Poe's character was never well defined throughout this and the other two. Never felt particularly connected to him, and I tried. Perhaps it was his acting, I dunno. Anyway, a minor distraction.

It tied up nicely. Thinking on it, bringing back Palpatine was a great idea. Truly evil. the puppet master pulling the strings all along. In fact, when he was first introduced,  I thought of the Wizard of Oz because he kind of appeared to be the man behind the curtain. I wonder if that was intentional. Next time I speak with JJ I'll be sure to ask!

And, I might add, the very end scene was perfect. Just perfect.

In my opinion, too many people who did not like this film are the kind of Star Wars purists who have read every book, every comic and played every game. And who go to Star Wars parties, with like-minded folks, dressed as their favorite Star Wars character.


I just watched and enjoyed.


I think it's the opposite. Most of the complaints and bad reviews seem to be coming from the casual fan. For instance, a lot of people are complaining the Emperor is still alive, when he was alive in the comics the whole time.
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Dan_P
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The movie wasn't as frustrating as The Last Jedi, but I thought it was hectic, crammed, and felt like J.J. Abrams was trying to make up for lost time. Part fan fiction, part cartoon and part corporate product that aims to please everybody. And none of the three parts ever questioned the plausibility of any of it.

Rey is still overpowered (unless it's plot-crucial that she isn't). I was actually more worried about every poor bastard that was suicidal enough to cross paths with her.

The Sith Troopers are of course nothing but gimmicks and future merchandise. Made me think back to "Lord of the Rings" where almost every new enemy type has a (game-changing) impact within the story.

The Knights of Ren are the new Bobba Fett: Cool-looking and completely underused. During their biggest scene I genuinely had to wonder: "Uhm, that's them, right?"

There were some good visuals, but the way it was directed made a lot of it fall flat for me. One particular fight scene was shot so up-close, that I could hardly make out any choreography.

POSSIBLE MILD SPOILER:
So, did the filmmakers just forget that Finn had something important he wanted to tell Rey? Did I miss it?
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Andrew
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


I think it's the opposite. Most of the complaints and bad reviews seem to be coming from the casual fan. For instance, a lot of people are complaining the Emperor is still alive, when he was alive in the comics the whole time.


We've had this one before, but my feeling is always that Lucas' view is gospel on SW, as it's his baby.

Probably the difference being that SW originated outside CBs, so it has the inverse relationship re: what's 'right' versus a Batman, which obviously originates from CBs.

I would say I think the split is more even, though, on who dislikes it. For many of the hardcores, it appears the complaints revolve around a lack of cohesive vision, which is a result of a sellout, and if there's anything a hardcore fan hates, it's a sellout!

I'm glad people are enjoying it, though. SW will always divide, but its main purpose is to entertaion and thrill, which it's certainly done for many with the new film; just wish I was one of them!


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah, it's probably split.

The Emperor was always coming back in Lucas's vision, as well.

It was set up in the prequels : He told Anakin that he had discovered the secret of surviving death.  

All the media was also under the direct influence of Lucas. Anything  written had to be approved by the top. It's all right (until they say it isn't) as it's all part  of the same story and is canon.

Most of the stuff that is in the films now is the product of the extended universe. Eg Siths, Sith home planet, Sith holocrons etc. None of that came from the original films. It was just the light and the dark side.

Rightly or wrongly key episodes of the story exist outside of the films.

Like I mentioned above, the Emperors message could only be heard in the Fortnite game. It's odd, but that's the reality. The build up of the resistance who suddenly appeared at the end took place in the novel preceding Rise of Skywalker, Resistance Reborn. Without following all the media, the reality is the films make little sense Imo.

I think the trilogy overall was a very mixed bag. All the pieces were in place, particularly in hindsight, but they just never got it going. Rian Johnson was a very disruptive influence, dismantling and deconstructing, but not providing any new narrative strands to follow. Abrams had to provide the second film as well as the third as far as I can see. The things that needed developing, weren't. Finn should have been out attracting former Imperials to the rebellion, instead of going to the casino. Rey should have been training with Luke and discovering the mystery behind Snoke, the Knights of Ren should have been established etc. Instead they had to throw all that in awkwardly in the third film.

In retrospect there was a much better, and easier story to tell utilising what they had.. The films feel more like a first draft.

In my imagination is already a much more cohesive and fulfilling film than what made it to the screen.
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Warren
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MAJOR SPOILERS but I think this really sums up the film and just how damn stupid it was, enjoy

https://youtu.be/b2zZFtq13c4


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Scar Tissue Films
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Quoted from Warren
MAJOR SPOILERS but I think this really sums up the film and just how damn stupid it was, enjoy

https://youtu.be/b2zZFtq13c4


I stopped watching almost immediately, tbh.

It's been hinted at for thirty years the Emperor survived. He returned in the early 90's in Dark Empire, when he turned Luke briefly to the Dark side . There's been numerous stories recently laying the grounds for his return, telling us he had created numerous cloning facilities, and a group of people called the Dark Acolytes had been collecting Vaders relics to help with the return as it's also been established that the Siths can put their life force into inanimate objects, such ss helmets.


In the films alone, Palpatine told Anakin outright that Darth Plagueis apprentice (which is Palpatine/ Darth Sidious) had learned how to survive death.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-palpatine-survive-return-jedi-explained-canon/

Star Wars is a huge meta - narrative. Noone is under any obligation to follow it all, but if you don't you're bound to miss a lot of things, and it means that things you think are nonsensical have usually already been explained way before the films even come out.
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Warren
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films


I stopped watching almost immediately, tbh.

It's been hinted at for thirty years the Emperor survived. He returned in the early 90's in Dark Empire, when he turned Luke briefly to the Dark side . There's been numerous stories recently laying the grounds for his return, telling us he had created numerous cloning facilities, and a group of people called the Dark Acolytes had been collecting Vaders relics to help with the return as it's also been established that the Siths can put their life force into inanimate objects, such ss helmets.


In the films alone, Palpatine told Anakin outright that Darth Plagueis apprentice (which is Palpatine/ Darth Sidious) had learned how to survive death.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-palpatine-survive-return-jedi-explained-canon/

Star Wars is a huge meta - narrative. Noone is under any obligation to follow it all, but if you don't you're bound to miss a lot of things, and it means that things you think are nonsensical have usually already been explained way before the films even come out.



Of course you did. You're defending this turd like it's your new born baby and like you're the only one who has any understanding of Star Wars.

They brought him back because they had no where to go and were clutching at straws to make it work. It really didn't on any level.

But we can't all like the same things, I think this entire saga has been a shit show.





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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: December 24th, 2019, 4:00am Report to Moderator
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It's just factually wrong, mate.


The Emperor's continued existence has been hinted at for decades.

If you don't wish to accept that, that's fine. It doesn't stop it from being true.

Here's an article from April this year explaining why the Emperor is probably alive :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/a.....he-rise-of-skywalker

They've been setting it up for a long, long time. It's just that a lot of people missed it. That's part of the fun of Star Wars, you only realise what's going on when it's all finished. It continually evolves.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Here's the set up from Revenge of the Sith.

https://youtu.be/05dT34hGRdg

The prequels also set up that the Emperor had set up cloning facilities. It was there all along.
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Andrew
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
Yeah, it's probably split.

The Emperor was always coming back in Lucas's vision, as well.

It was set up in the prequels : He told Anakin that he had discovered the secret of surviving death.  

All the media was also under the direct influence of Lucas. Anything  written had to be approved by the top. It's all right (until they say it isn't) as it's all part  of the same story and is canon.

Most of the stuff that is in the films now is the product of the extended universe. Eg Siths, Sith home planet, Sith holocrons etc. None of that came from the original films. It was just the light and the dark side.

Rightly or wrongly key episodes of the story exist outside of the films.

Like I mentioned above, the Emperors message could only be heard in the Fortnite game. It's odd, but that's the reality. The build up of the resistance who suddenly appeared at the end took place in the novel preceding Rise of Skywalker, Resistance Reborn. Without following all the media, the reality is the films make little sense Imo.

I think the trilogy overall was a very mixed bag. All the pieces were in place, particularly in hindsight, but they just never got it going. Rian Johnson was a very disruptive influence, dismantling and deconstructing, but not providing any new narrative strands to follow. Abrams had to provide the second film as well as the third as far as I can see. The things that needed developing, weren't. Finn should have been out attracting former Imperials to the rebellion, instead of going to the casino. Rey should have been training with Luke and discovering the mystery behind Snoke, the Knights of Ren should have been established etc. Instead they had to throw all that in awkwardly in the third film.

In retrospect there was a much better, and easier story to tell utilising what they had.. The films feel more like a first draft.

In my imagination is already a much more cohesive and fulfilling film than what made it to the screen.


Interesting stuff. I didn't realise that re: Lucas, and to be honest, I didn't really have a big problem with the Emperor coming back, but moreso with the way he was brought back:

- It could definitely be credibly argued bringing him back was always part of the plan, hence the death of Snoke.
- However, it felt like a bolt from the blue, which I think was down to the pre-reveal for PR, and even frontloading him to the very start of the film.

Had they kept his reapperance a secret (away from trailers, etc) and then gently introduced him in Rise, it would've been a lot more impactful. However, narratively they left themselves with far too much to do to give him a full arc in the series, which lends credibility to the idea it was desperation resulting from the 'course correction' everyone is talking about. Surely bringing him back had to start in TLJ.

Either way, the one thing it seems we all agree on is that this series suffered massively from not being a cohesive whole, which is a great shame.

Fact is, for whatever people think of SW, no one can deny its cultural impact is still as potent as ever, hence the wall-to-wall coverage since the release, and the BO numbers looked good last time I checked, which was opening night.


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Scar Tissue Films
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I agree that it was handled oddly.

Kathleen Kennedy said it was always the plan, they just weren't sure how to do it, but even so, the way it happened outside of the film was strange.

The whole story was odd, in truth, or rather the telling of it was, the actual story is pretty good when you piece it together yourself.

The Emperor's voice could be heard when Rey had her vision in Force Awakens (along with many others), leading some people to correctly assume she was a Palpatine. So they were giving themselves the option of that from the start, but then why wasn't he affecting things more obviously throughout?  Kylo could have had curious visions, so could Rey etc

It does seem like it was out of the blue in terms of the trilogy, though not in terms of the whole saga.

Another interesting tidbit that's now canon :

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-anakin-father-emperor/

Anakin was created by The Emperor, but the Force reacted against them. The entire 'Skywalker Saga' was really the Palpatine saga, as well.
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Warren
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
It's just factually wrong, mate.


The Emperor's continued existence has been hinted at for decades.

If you don't wish to accept that, that's fine. It doesn't stop it from being true.

Here's an article from April this year explaining why the Emperor is probably alive :

https://www.google.com/amp/s/a.....he-rise-of-skywalker

They've been setting it up for a long, long time. It's just that a lot of people missed it. That's part of the fun of Star Wars, you only realise what's going on when it's all finished. It continually evolves.


There's a bigger issue you seem to be failing to see. The return of Palpatine is one small piece of a puzzle that doesn't fit.

This is a bad story, badly told. Many parts of it make no sense. Bigger issues like Rey's not existent story arc. She starts amazing and ends more amazing with no real challenges along the way. She can immediately fly, handle a light sabre and use the force better than anyone before her.

It's hard/impossible to care for any other character, because after 3 films we know almost nothing about them.

The coincidence is strong with this one, so much happens because it needs to to make the script work.

Sure you can argue that people may have missed all the pieces, that doesn't change the fact that this is at its core a bad film.

Kathleen Kennedy also said she would respect the characters, look how that turned out. I don't think you can trust anything she says.

As I said, each to their own but really this has so many logic and story issues that go beyond Palpatine.


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Scar Tissue Films
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All fair criticisms.

I agree with all of them, but still loved the film.

I have to say that Rey won me over in this one. Daisy Ridley acted her little heart out, making the absolute most of the shite she's been served. By the end I had nothing but love for her.

Kylo was underwhelming as a bad guy, but he was great as a good guy. Arguably the best character Star Wars has had.

They should bring him back using something they used in the comics : That he's stuck in the 'World between Worlds' ' that Vader opened trying to bring Padme back.

Honestly, the only thing that really matters to me in a Star Wars film is that the emotion is right. Plot holes and even characters are less important, because the other media tends to fill in all the gaps.

There's characters that appeared on the screen for seconds who will become some of the best characters in the saga on the page. The same happened with the prequels.

Overall, they did OK with the trilogy. They stumbled often, but kept their feet for me. There's a clean slate now, and they can do what they like and I'm looking forwards to the next one, instead of dreading it.
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DarrenJamesSeeley
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A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

Star Wars influenced, in whole or in part, generations of filmmakers and writers. Kids in the late 70s and mid 80s were practically given a film school and didn't even know it. Before special features on DVD and Blu Ray, there were loads of behind the scenes docs and even the bubble gum cards were showing off Ralph McQuarrie paintings and ILM model makers.

The OT set a high bar, maybe too high.
So high that the prequels took two films to get their footing. Part of the reason is that Lucas made the miscalculation over his fanbase. He thought the new generation would like goofy cartoon CG characters and rush out and buy merchandise related to that character.  He also thought he had to explain the Force to us as a technobabble construct. And that the Star Wars universe is a smaller galaxy than we first thought.  He was mistaken, and to course correct as much as he could. He finished on a high note with Revenge Of The Sith.

Time has been good to the prequels. No more so then when Disney bought Lucasfilm and started churning out more content under JJ Abrams, who barely has an original thought in his head, relying mostly on his mystery box concepts.  It seems that the new set of Star Wars films, being set thirty years after Return Of The Jedi one would think that the Star Wars universe would expand, when instead, all it did was recycle and shrink the universe again. If that were not enough, Disney would no longer treat the films as events, but planned a Star Wars related film every year. There was miscommunication between Disney, Lucasfilm's Katheleen Kennedy and the filmmakers they chosen to work with outside of JJ Abrams.

It's been a bumpy road, I'll give them that. I never thought a TV series on a new streaming service would save face, (and Mandolrian is great) but on the feature film side...we conclude with The Rise Of Skywalker.

Great action, dazzling CG effects, eat your popcorn, sip up the soda and...never mind all the plot holes, the inconsistencies, the convenient and contrived,  the retcons, shrinking the universe one more time, jerking off to fan service and/or recycled references, Making sure you are PC when you don't have to be, and on't let Star Wars be Star Wars, little things like that.

Well, JJ, people do tend to notice those things. Suspension of disbelief is needed, but when the rules of the film universe no longer make sense and anything goes, we have a major storytelling problem that's hard to ignore.  Don't rely on other future SW media to fix up the logic.  Spitting in the face of Rian Johnson, who only followed your outline in regards to Rey's heritage, mind you - is on display for all to witness.  Damn. No wonder filmmakers don't like sticking around Lucasfilm under Disney. A lot of folks point the accusing finger at Kennedy; maybe the wrath is misplaced and should be focused on Jj Abrams.

The return of Palpatine is fine; the opening crawl telling us and his fleet of hidden Death Star Destroyers which can zapout a planet but get kibboshed by a little poke isn't.


What a letdown. What a letdown!
Skywalker will make its cash. Take the money and run.

Here's my ranking in order:

Empire
New Hope
Return Of The Jedi
Revenge Sith
Clones
Phantom
Last Jedi
Force Awakens
Solo
Rise Of Skywalker
Rogue One

yes, yes and yes. the bottom half is all the recent piles of trash, and Skywalker only beats R1 by a foot, because at least Skywalker didn't put me to sleep.

There's a reason why folks are gravitating to Mandolrian on  Disney +. It is the antidote,







"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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MarkRenshaw
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I've seen Rise twice now and I do enjoy it. I'm old, so I saw A New Hope when it first cme out. For me, Rise was a lovely way to wrap up 40 years of memories.

At the same time I can agree with most of the critisicms. It's funny, The Last Jedi was blasted by the more vocal fanboys on Twitter but since Rise came out, there has been a surge of love for TLJ when compared to Rise of Skywalker. I am a fan of TLJ BTW.

You can rip most scenes of Rise apart for bad writing. It is true, they ditch logic, good storytelling and character development for over the top fan service and nostalgia. You either buy into it and enjoy the ride or hate it. I enjoyed the ride, as I did with EP 7 and 8.

The problem is most of this was evident in Force Awakens, which was a massive hit. So, because it worked then, they did it even more with Rise of Skywalker and layed it on extra thick. Force Awakens is basically a re-imagined version of A New Hope and Rise is Return of the Jedi with a bit of every other SW film thrown in for good measure.  

It will be interesting to see what the overall Box Office figures are in a few weeks once the dust has settled as we can have whatever opinions we like but the numbers will have the final word.


For more of my scripts, stories, produced movies and the ocassional blog, check out my new website. CLICK
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Scar Tissue Films
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Ultimately I think all the problems they had stemmed from two things :

Starting it in the wrong place.
Having  different directors working against each other.

I think they did a pretty good job of making it fit, but I think they've realised that in future they need a solid plan to keep it all together. Whatever you think of TLJ it didn't really follow the breadcrumbs laid by TFA and the third film essentially pretended TLJ never happened and tried to squeeze all the things Abrams wanted the second film to include (Lukes mission to find the Sith's homeworld, the Knights of Ren etc) into the third.

Colin Trevorrow's script for the third film, which had already been written before TLJ came out, was centred largely around Luke vs Snoke, and Rian Johnson killed them both off. He wanted to bring them both back, and left due to 'creative differences' because they wouldn't let him.

Abrans had written rough drafts for both Episodes 8 and 9.

It's a strange thing to let happen, really. They should have known definitively where they were going and stuck to a plan.

Anything in the main timeline is going to be contentious because everyone has a different opinion on what the story of Star Wars is depending on what tuner saw first and how much they've read. I met a young guy the other day who was practically crying over the new film because it destroyed 'Anakin' s Legacy', whereas for me, no such thing ever existed because Anakin was only ever really backstory to the originals and Luke Skywalker. If you saw the prequels first it's a different experience entirely. With the new releases, neither of them are really important. It's all been building to Rey Palpatine/ Skywalker.

There's a central dichotomy at the heart of Star Wars, which is that the core stories are a fairy tale, where everything is wrapped up neatly, but once expanded out of that, it becomes more of a 'realistic' story where good and evil and everything in between is on a constant state of flux. In order to continue the story, you have to lose the conceptual perfection of the original story..Good/ Love triumphing over hate/Evil. It's a difficult mix because if you move away from that core perfection, it no longer has the feeling of 'Star Wars', and if you don't you're constantly repeating what's already been.
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What an utter piece of shit.

Two hours of nonsense for the protag to find an antag who wanted to be found in the first place. Paper thin, punishingly loud, joyless and stupid. The big saber fight was pathetic. Every callback to/ripoff of the original trilogy was just a painful reminder of how absurdly incompetent these new films are. "I'm the spy!" has to be the stupidest line of the year. The Leia stuff looked dreadful. And while I didn't really like seeing Luke, Han etc. in the new movies, the long stretches without them really highlight how deeply uninteresting the new characters are.

The worst Star Wars film. I would happily watch Caravan of Courage and Battle for Endor back to back over watching this again.

(Rey's slow-mo jump is still cool as hell, though.)
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