Hi all, I was hoping I could get some input about film credit. This is my first experience with getting something made.  But completely changed. I felt a bit out of my depth due to my inexperience with this type of thing.


I got a screenplay picked up for production by a small Prod company. It was going to be their first short film and they wanted to put their best foot forward. They had music production experience so they weren't new to filming. They also stipulated from the beginning that there were going to be small changes to the script to suit their vision of what they wanted, so I was okay with that.

They loved the characters the atmosphere and general plot line.

I was asked on the day of the production reading if I wanted to get on a call with them to discuss changes. I was at work. I probably would have if I had been given some notice, but hey they are starting out so no biggie.  

Then some silence,,,, so I text them... and get a text back saying it didn't make sense story wise, plus too many loose ends yadda yadda. And they wanted to change most of the story but keep the characters. I was asked if I wanted to work on it with them in regards to changes, but I was tired of the thing and didn't want to delve into it anymore plus I had no time. He was really nice about it and felt bad, cause he was the one who had to tell me this.  I told him it was all good learning experience and to do what he wanted with it. He said he was definitely going to credit me.

I just took all this as experience in 'the real world of production where they rip your script apart and make it their own and you finally get weassled out of credits lol'...But..I know I okayed all of this to a point so all good. And the script did need some fixing...

The thing that hasn't felt right is part of the story they kept. The characters parents had died and had been abusive. And the character was at the parents house (where the other character was living) to clean the house out ofter the parents death. They just changed what happened with the characters in the house and how the parents died. (they didn't give a reason for that in their version) and eliminated the paranormal aspect. It became a thriller mystery and not a horror.

The final credit I was going to get was  "Based on characters created by Kirsten James".

The credit I got was "Inspired by characters created by Kirsten James".

It's finished and doing well in festivals.  

So the question is,  is this a fair credit? I prefer 'based' on, not 'inspired' by. And I was credited last.

When it's finished in the festival circuit I'll link it...

Thanks again to anyone that can put some fresh eyes on this..and tell me i'm just being an inexperienced picky cow ....

Seeing as they changed the whole thing around I wouldn’t say it’s unfair to do that. Either way, your name is on it, even though it didn’t turn out how you had planned. Some filmmakers, I feel, love to give themselves more credit than they deserve because it’s more a vanity thing with them. But “based on” just feels more solid, so I can understand your point. At the end of the day, your name is there, and that’s an accomplishment you can still hang your hat on. For a little while. So go and write another winner!

Steve

I have no experience with any of that sort of thing, but my random thought process was...

Even if they changed the story, it was still your story (They wouldn't have anything to change if it wasn't for you) - So I would have preferred a "Based on a story by Kirsten James" or even if they give themselves a "written by" credit, at least give you a "story by" credit.

Unfortunately, your situation isn't unique. This happens a lot and I'm saddened to add that you will soon learn that writers are often the lowest rung on the ladder. In my experience, as soon as you give producers permission to use your script you're pretty much forgotten. My first feature had so many changes I didn't even recognize it as something I had written. I was never asked to make changes, they just did that on their own and then the director added himself as writer! Another example would be when I made Them That's Dead. It was written by our mod Bert. After several rehearsals and two days of shooting with everyone, cast and crew, having the script in their hands I asked everyone to not look at the cover page and then tell me who wrote the script. One of my saddest days ever as a writer when none of them knew. His name was on the freaking front page of the script!!! That's when it really hit me how little respect writers get.

I guess what I'm saying is, sorry for your experience, but don't be surprised if similar things continue to happen in the future.  

The full writing credit should be yours and you should never have backed away from that. At the very least, you should have a 'story by' credit. You have the original script and they've hardly made any changes. If I were you, I'd tell them that you better be given full screenplay credit else you'll be filing a complaint and the film will have to be pulled from the festivals.

Just my opinion:

You got screwed - but you kind of let them. My response back to them would have been permission to use this script is rescinded and you are no lo anger allowed to use any story elements or characters from the script.  You may not have been successful in that regard - but it's the course I would have taken.

I put this on all my short script contracts:

Quoted Text WRITER’S CREDITS •     David Lambertson will receive sole and full writing credit for the script and will be recognized in the credits as the sole writer on the filmed version as well as in any future marketing efforts, submittals to film festivals, IMDB profiles and all other public displays of the script or the film. •     No changes or modifications to the script will in any way create a co-writer credit. David Lambertson is the sole writer.

I'm guessing that you either sold this for very little or granted a free use option - so eff em. They are a nothing production company and you are in the business of trying to establish yourself as a writer. The way it should have worked is they should have come  up with some suggested revisions - asked you if you would write those revisions - you make the decision.

I've only shared credit once. Before an agreement was ever reached a writer/producer shared with me their vision of the script - clearly it was only going to be 50% mine. I decided that I would let them write their own version - give them a co-writer credit AND I retained exclusive rights to the original script. BUT - that was all agreed to upfront.

Production companies that do what this one did to you are just thieves.  Treat them like that. It's like you wrote the lyrics to Bad Bad Leroy Brown and they came back and said - yeah, we like the character. but we want him in New York rather than Chicago - and we will give you a based on credit.

Eff them, eff them, eff them - we need to start teaching these thieves a lesson. Again. just by opinion - but I would have shot them off a cease and desist email.

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for responding. I have definitely bought this upon myself in terms of agreeing to everything. And I have used it as a learning tool for further ventures... one step at a time.

I just took away permission from a guy in India who wasn't getting back to me about the filming of The Camper.


Steven.... yeah the 'inspired by' feels pretty flimsy, so I'm glad you agree.

Matthew... thats where it was confusing, the storyline is totally different now and I allowed it... so I feel like I can't be credited for the whole story lol...

Angry Bear... that sucks. Did that feature get finished? And yeah it's sad people don't pay attention to who wrote the script. I've been getting very frustrated with the 'ghosting' that seems to be a thing after scripts get picked up. Even though I know this seems to be part of it, I don't accept it. I can't handle rude behavior. It's so  unnecessary. And I'm quite happy to be pulled up for any rude behavior I exhibit. If it doesn't get filmed fine...just send that email to say it's off the table.

Dustin. Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough in my description, but they changed most of the story. Mine was paranormal, the parents ghosts are in the house. The sister kills the brother and had killed the parents as well. In their version the house is different, the parents are dead (we don't know why) and it's based around the brother having a psychotic break. The sister is LALA but younger than my character. Mine is based around the sister and brother, theirs is based around the brother.

But anyway, it's good just to get some opinions from others. If I'm doing the free to use option I'll just make sure that they don't change anything without my permission. I'll just get a little tougher.... and be okay with not  giving permission if a producer seems 'airy fairy.'

It's all learning...

Hey Dave,

Yes I let them.. ... But I have learnt my lesson! And yes it was free..... And when I can link it and show it to others, I will make a big deal about how it's about MY characters and it all started with my IDEA!!! I'm too flippin nice and I was too flippin keen to have my name on something even if I had to whore myself out lol....

But not anymore!! Plus I need to be a bit more confident with my writing... I still have a loooong ways to go....

I actually saw your post with the example of what you send to producers and I'm going to use it. (because you said people can ) And I like it... yes stuff it, sole writer credit even if they change the story! Thank you.

"I've only shared credit once. Before an agreement was ever reached a writer/producer shared with me their vision of the script - clearly it was only going to be 50% mine. I decided that I would let them write their own version - give them a co-writer credit AND I retained exclusive rights to the original script."

That's what I should have done with this Dave!!!

Quoted from Kirsten Hey Dave, Yes I let them.. ... But I have learnt my lesson! And yes it was free..... And when I can link it and show it to others, I will make a big deal about how it's about MY characters and it all started with my IDEA!!! I'm too flippin nice and I was too flippin keen to have my name on something even if I had to whore myself out lol.... But not anymore!! Plus I need to be a bit more confident with my writing... I still have a loooong ways to go.... I actually saw your post with the example of what you send to producers and I'm going to use it. (because you said people can ) And I like it... yes stuff it, sole writer credit even if they change the story! Thank you. "I've only shared credit once. Before an agreement was ever reached a writer/producer shared with me their vision of the script - clearly it was only going to be 50% mine. I decided that I would let them write their own version - give them a co-writer credit AND I retained exclusive rights to the original script." That's what I should have done with this Dave!!!

My pleasure - and don't beat yourself up about it - this is definitely a live and learn craft. I can;t tell you how many mistakes I made out of the shoot. And yes, feel free to use my agreements.  If you need WORD FILES of them (I have one for free use and one for paid use) - just PM me.

Thanks Dave, I'll PM you..

I just want to share a similar situation where I let someone film a short script and they changed a lot of things, including rewriting the whole dialogue and the story structure. I asked them to take my name off it since it wasn't what I wrote. However, even though they initially agreed, with it came time, they left my name in. What was most irritating was watching the characters speak dialogue I didn't write, yet on the written by, you had my name.

Everything is a gamble. Best to learn how not to get too attached to the material and accept that things will work out in different ways, most of it is out of your control.

My contacts are/were very similar to Dave's, I always specify sole writing credit. Admittedly I don't really worry about contracts anymore as 90% (made up statistic, but it is high) of films end up falling though and I just couldn't be bothered. I'm happy I have a few thing that have made it to the finish line and anything extra is a bonus.

But a few years ago I had a contract for one of my shorts and the writer added some story and gave himself a written by credit alongside mine on IMDb, I just sent him an email reminding him of the contact and he promptly removed it. The film never made it past post production. It was filmed and then... who knows.

Long story short, if you know what you want make it clear in the contract.

Hey Demento......thanks for your imput....yeah. I dont blame you for wanting your name off it... I've just got to be more assertive, then I should have a good balance of letting go a little while having as much control over the story as humanly possible.

They say a film is written 3 times.. the screenplay, the filming, the editing. So I get that. I just want to make sure I'm not asking too little or too much...and that comes with great advice from you guys and experiencing it...

Warren thanks for your input.... I'm going to throw out the quick contract with everyone cause I do that a little with people already but my one is pretty basic. Especially if it's for prod companies.... students.... not so much...

Quoted from Kirsten They say a film is written 3 times.. the screenplay, the filming, the editing. So I get that. I just want to make sure I'm not asking too little or too much...and that comes with great advice from you guys and experiencing it...

It's usually rewritten way more times than that. The producer that reads it will want changes before they option it. The actor that reads it will want changes before they sign on to it. The director will want his changes. Then, because they don't have big enough investors, you'll have to cut/rewrite scenes and so on and so on.

Most movies, unless it's some kind of auteur project or something with huge names, major backing will go through a fluid process where the end result is something different than the script that you started off with.

Demento, yeah with features and I suppose shorts to...if you want it done exactly the way it's written film it yourself... and even then you still change things...