Quoted from ReneC The first 10 pages, and by extension the first 10 minutes, of any feature sets the reader/audience expectations. You don't do yourself any favours by holding out to build the suspense.

Definitely do not agree with this statement.  I'm not saying you should do this, but there are many very effective ways that you can and have the more powerful script/movie because of it.

I agree with Rene. If there is not a witch, there absolutely should be something supernatural. Very important to establish tone and genre in those early pages. There almost should be something in the first 5 pages that establishes genre.

Quoted from Dreamscale Definitely do not agree with this statement.  I'm not saying you should do this, but there are many very effective ways that you can and have the more powerful script/movie because of it.

Hi Jeff - can you expand a bit on this - you're losing me a somewhat. The start of the movie should be the set up, right? I don't just mean QT doing the exiting bit first and then going back to the set-up... or do you mean this?

But you have to set up your character, and you have to give an indication of the story??? And you have to set then tone 'n' stuff.

From what I gathher you better have set up just about everything your story is going to be, and in the first 10 minute, or else.

If you lose your viewer in the first ten minutes you might have lost them period

Quoted from ReneC The first 10 pages, and by extension the first 10 minutes, of any feature sets the reader/audience expectations. You don't do yourself any favours by holding out to build the suspense.

I agree. But my reason for not having a witch in my first 10 pages had nothing to do with building suspense or anything else for that matter. It's just not that kind of movie. I'm not even complaining about the reponse I got. If anything I am very happy about the response I got. I don't think what I did would be classified as "holding out" though.

I'm assuming most who have read it know which script I am referring to, but I will try to hold out explaining myself until names are officially revealed.

Quoted from Hugh Hoyland I did Wicca Patrol, about a sexy (at least in my head) but kick a** Witch cop. Needs a little work, I'm sure.

I liked it! It could do with a polish up for sure but it was an entertaining ride. I think the idea of a wicca cop is sound, lots of potential.

Sure...

Definitely tone needs to be set immediately, IMO.  Genre should be clear as well, but in most cases, that's obvious based on the marketing (of a movie), or the title or logline.

IMO, alot of it has to do with the genre and setup you're going for.

But for me, one thing is very clear, in my head, at least.  The first 10 pages or even first 15-20 should not be anywhere near a full story, as many of these supposed first 10 pages were.  And I seriously doubt many of these can effectively carry a full feature idea, because of where and how they started.

And, yes, I am referring to both Blood Roots and Of Mice and Monsters.  I am not picking on these in any way, as they were both solid efforts for the most part, but for me, in no way will they have the legs going forward.  And I seriously doubt either was conceived as the first 10 pages, with the accompanying next 80-100 pages remotely plotted out or thought through.

Of course, I don't know this for a fact and could be wrong and could be proved wrong.  We'll see.

Hi Jeff. So let me get this right - you're talking on a wider scale and a small scale..?

So 6th sense set a tone, but gave no clue as to where it was going, so if fact its strength lay in the fact that the audience did not know where the story was heading?

Of Mice and Monsters kind of begins in the middle (right?).

And Blood Roots... I'm not too sure about that - I'd have thought that it did have have legs -- but then what you're saying is that whoever wrote BR didn't figure out where it was going - as in the full 90 pages when they put the 10 pages down?

I guess you are not seeing my many posts on this, Jeff, but Mice and Monsters is a short. A short. A short. A short. A short. A short. A short.

Don posted shortly after the challenge began that shorts were acceptable, because several people indicated they did not wish to begin a feature they did not plan on finishing, and they did wish to write a feature about a witch.

I don't really understand what you mean about Blood. How does that have less legs than Sinister?

Quoted from CoopBazinga I liked it! It could do with a polish up for sure but it was an entertaining ride. I think the idea of a wicca cop is sound, lots of potential.

Thanks CoopBazinga! Who can resist a woma in uniform right?  

I think the only reason Blood Roots fails as the first 10 pages of a feature is because it sets up a character that wants to keep her powers hidden, but also needs to support her family, and by the end she has already made the choice that is set up. The movie tells us that she can either support her family or keep the powers hidden. Instead of giving us all the drama of that, her mind is already made up from the start.

If the feature is supposed to be about her dealing with the consequences of revealing her powers, nothing in the first 10 pages indicated that. The audience was not given an expectation of where the story was headed. All the expectations we were given were realized in the first 10.

I think the writer is definitely experience AND talented. I just think that the first 10 pages don't really give us any expectations for the rest.

Quoted Text 1)  There is no reason one couldn't write a 10 page short rather than the first 10 pages.  My initial challenge was going to the be "Cashback" challenge wherein a 18 minute short - Cashback was extended into a feature film Cashback (highly recommend this film if for no other reason than the awesome nudity).

- Don

Could Mice and Men be expanded into a feature? I am thinking of just that thing. I like the ending here, though, so this would be the end of the script. Mirela sees the camp liberated, but she will not live to be free. That was why I put her, in mouse form, behind a grate in the last shot. It's supposed to resemble prison bars. And to me, this symbolizes the fact that even camp survivors are never truly free of the horror that haunts them.

Were I to do a feature, it would begin before they are brought to the camps. Actually, I am thinking of making Yoska a twin brother. Right before the Nazis ship them off to the camp, Mirela has a chance to escape to America, which is what she has always wanted. But her brother does not want to leave the Gypsy clan. When the Nazis come for them, Mirela is in the woods. She can still escape. But her brother is sickly. She turns herself in in order to watch over him.

In the camp, she does what she can to keep him alive. It's sad ending, so I need to give some audience satisfaction. That may have to come in expanding the camp rebellion stuff(which really happened). It also comes from Yoska surviving.

We'll see. It's a tough story.

  Ah...I think I see the light...finally.  Kev, so Of Mice and Monsters is yours?  I did not know.  I asked numerous times, but you (or anyone else) never responded.

I gotcha.  Sorry.  Wasn't sure if was it intended as a feature or a short.

It was well done, Kev.  I liked alot of it.  I really did.

I am surprised that a short would receive so many votes here, but in no way is that a bad thing.

As for Blood Roots, IMO, there's just way too much given in the first 10 pages.  If I were watching this movie, I'd be thinking to myself that it had progressed way too far, way too fast.

Simon, my comments are based in general, but your Sixth Sense analogy is actually very astute.  It's definitely one of those movies that succeeds based on what it does and doesn't reveal.

Many others as well.  Hostel is a great example as well, although some will argue that the "intro" over the titles shows its hand, but IMO, that was most likely added after the fact because they were concerned that absolutely nothing remotely "horrific" took place in the first 30 minutes, which does make sense.

I think both Blood Roots and Of Mice and Monsters could be expanded into features.

As Kevin mentioned, Mice was definitely written as a feature.

I think Blood Roots needs to be expanded to work as a feature as well, but I don't think it's only a short right now.

Quoted from leitskev I do think 15 pages can give a better indication. Some stories need a little room to build. But no more than 15. If nothing interesting has happened by then, it ain't gonna get off the ground. No runway is that long. Felipe makes a fair point about the witch. My script is a short, and it was added by Don that shorts were allowed for this challenge. But if someone didn't vote for it on that basis, I have no problem at all with that. I'm just happy people read it, and some liked it. I am considering making it a feature. But this is not the first 10 pages. More like the last 10. There you go, how bout a last 10 pages challenge? lol. I like writing endings. And I like happy endings(giggety giggety).

I'm afraid I'm one of the people who didn't vote for yours because it was a short, personal choice when voting but I definitely liked it. Be interesting to see if you can expand this into a feature, Kev?

What a great idea, the last 10 pages of a feature but surely none of it would make any sense. Not that it matters for me because my first 10 pages didn't make any sense either.