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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    February 2012 OWC  ›  The Secret War - OWC
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  Author    The Secret War - OWC  (currently 5311 views)
Forgive
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 7:53am Report to Moderator
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I think there's a couple of points here - I think that we have been introduced to the main protags - and that has been done within the ten page slot.

We don't really have an indepth relation with them - but that's for the rest of the feature, we just have a clear picture of who the main players are.

I think the script has been clever as we don't know if both Anna and Helene are witches or just one of them - they're key people, but what is their relationship? This is all stuff to be developed - as with Ewan - we know he is the 'man to watch' - and that is all that is really necessary at this stage.

In regard to the killings - again, I think that the scripts has been specific here. The first two villagers were shot at the gates, and we have established that there is some relation/history between Oscar and Heiss.

This occurs at the village gates, and there is then a scene change to the village square, where the villages are rounded up - so there is the indication that none of these villagers know exactly what happened at the gates.

Heiss does not debate long before he kills the menfolk, so Anna has very little time to make a decision - and we have to take into account that Anna may well not be the witch and protecting a terrified Helene, who repays Anna's bravery by 'proving' the existence of witch-power by blowing the bulbs for Anna. Contorted maybe, but a possibility. (And I know this contains problems in itself).

As for the Nazi 'preparing' for the Witches power - I'm not too sure I buy that. The witch has, to some extent, to co-operate, as she is now very well aware that the Nazi are quite happy to sacrifice fellow-villages' lives, so there is enough compulsion to comply with the Nazis.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Forgive
As for the Nazi 'preparing' for the Witches power - I'm not too sure I buy that. The witch has, to some extent, to co-operate, as she is now very well aware that the Nazi are quite happy to sacrifice fellow-villages' lives, so there is enough compulsion to comply with the Nazis.


This is kind of a response to both Gabe and the above quote.

IMO, and I'm no historian, it's quite clear what the Nazis did and were capable of long before this situation occurred.  I mean, the Nazis did this type of shit all the time, didn't they?  I'm referring to killing innocent peeps, not going after witches.

People are defiant by nature, especially when they know they're probably dead anyways, and even more so when a truly hated person/group is upon them.

I can't think of the movie right now (someone will hopefully help me), but there's a pretty cool scene in which a group of Nazis line up a group of innocent villagers and shoot them one by one until a certain person is identified.  It's at night and it's snowing.  I think some of it is done in Slo Mo.  Once the person is revealed, they're all killed anyways.  I'm pretty sure there is some defiance early on as well.

Anyways, again, my human nature comment means that you cannot always predict human nature.  Oskar's defiance makes prefect sense to me. I for one have seen it in many, many movies of many different genres, and I'm sure it's played out numerous times throughout history in every corner of the world.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 10:13am Report to Moderator
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Someone's a witch who has certain abilities that could've stopped the deaths, depending on her abilities. Are you changing her powers? She did reveal some powers. Why not use it against the group of Nazis? Buy some time for the Villagers to leave.  

And isn't that info on how ruthless the Nazis are established already once they're introduced? Everyone hates Nazis. So why would Oscar spit at the Nazi's shoe? He knows something bad is going to happen. So it shouldn't have been a surprise for him if those two Villagers died. Hell, he's lucking he's breathing.  

What happened to Oscar's bravery after the two Villagers died? He's brave to spit but can't face death.  

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 10:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Ripley
Someone's a witch who has certain abilities that could've stopped the deaths, depending on her abilities. Are you changing her powers? She did reveal some powers. Why not use it against the group of Nazis? Buy some time for the Villagers to leave.  

And isn't that info on how ruthless the Nazis are established already once they're introduced? Everyone hates Nazis. So why would Oscar spit at the Nazi's shoe? He knows something bad is going to happen. So it shouldn't have been a surprise for him if those two Villagers died. Hell, he's lucking he's breathing.  

What happened to Oscar's bravery after the two Villagers died? He's brave to spit but can't face death.  

Gabe


Gabe, I'm not changing anything.  It sounds like you're trying to completely change things.

Why are you so adamant about protecting and saving these villagers?  For the story to work like I think the writer would take it, the Nazis and the commanding officer specifically, has to be set up as ruthless, heartless killers.

Osker's defiance shows character...makes the audience identify with him, and root for him and his peeps.

You keep saying that "the witch" obviously has these powers and should use them against the Nazis to protect her peeps, but you have no clue how this plays out, who is actually the witch, and why she didn't unleash her supposed powers.

None of this is your decision and since we're only 10 pages into a "big" story, I just don't understand why you keep digging about these things.

Unless you wrote this, you have no clue where it's going and have only (most likely) read it a single time, which means you know virtually nothing about it compared to the writer, who most likely spent a good deal of time coming up with the setup and story.

Let me just say it again, and this is a general statement, as well as a statement aimed at your comments.

Unless a character does something that virtually no one would actually do in a real life situation, it is foolish for someone to continually question the character's actions.  It just doesn't make any sense at all.  Characters in scripts and movies can do virtually anything their creator wants them to do.

Here are a couple examples for you that seems pretty much in line with the situation here.

Why do inmates continually spit, throw/shoot urine and feces at guards, knowing they're going to be sprayed with pepper spray and taken down violently, as well as go to solitary confinement, and/or get a longer stint in solitary if they're already there?

Why would a normal guy stand up to an armed thug over a monetary item that would be replaced by insurance, knowing that he could easily be killed or badly injured?

Both examples take place every single day around the world.
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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I did enjoy this one very much. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of your choice of dialogue, but the story and characters work well enough where the only real changes you need to make is with the dialogue.

Notes:

Nothing to make a big fuss over.


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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Jeff

I'm just expressing my view. lol.

As a writer, you have to question the characters actions. If something seems not right, you question it. I even said I'm not being mean.

I'm offering suggestions which involves changing certain things. The writer doesn't need to take it. I'm not holding a gun to the writer.  

And I'm simply replying to your comments. We're having a discourse that's all. You're making points and I'm making points as well.


Quoted Text
Why do inmates continually spit, throw/shoot urine and feces at guards, knowing they're going to be sprayed with pepper spray and taken down violently, as well as go to solitary confinement, and/or get a longer stint in solitary if they're already there?


Not sure, but those inmates that do these are on death row, facing life, or going to die because of gang affiliation if they don't.

Were these villagers suffering that? They were not confined in a cell. They were still living. And i doubt they were going to do that back then. But who knows.

They're alive as long as they didn't mess around with the Nazis. Oscar caused trouble. Not to be disrespectful, that's not brave. That's stupid. There's a time when to be brave and when not too. In Oscar's s instance, don't be brave especially with two guys and pitchforks. In addition, the SS Commander is flanked with soldiers armed. How are you going to be brave against that?  


Quoted Text
Why would a normal guy stand up to an armed thug over a monetary item that would be replaced by insurance, knowing that he could easily be killed or badly injured?


If the normal guy is a martial artist, he can handle himself. lol. A majority of people give up there possessions. Those who don't are sorry to say stupid. They pay with their life for others to learn their mistakes.  Aren't there defensive courses that inform people to give up their possessions and call 911?

I dig the concept. But I think it needs work. That's all.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 12:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Ripley
I'm just expressing my view. lol.

As a writer, you have to question the characters actions. If something seems not right, you question it. I even said I'm not being mean.

I'm offering suggestions which involves changing certain things. The writer doesn't need to take it. I'm not holding a gun to the writer.  

And I'm simply replying to your comments. We're having a discourse that's all. You're making points and I'm making points as well.


Yes, Gabe, we are simply having a discussion and I didn't mean to imply that you were being mean or the like.

I think you continue to miss my point, though, and I think this quote is perfect to point out what I'm trying to say.  See if this makes sense...


Quoted from Mr.Ripley
A majority of people give up there possessions. Those who don't are sorry to say stupid. They pay with their life for others to learn their mistakes.


My point is that people make "stupid" decisions all the time.  In fact, these decisions may not even be stupid to them at the time they're making the decision.  Shit happens like this all the time, and the truth is that people really don't learn a lesson from it.

People get pissed about something at their job, say something they know they shouldn't, and get fired.  Stupid?  Sure, but it happens all the time.

People get pissed at their spouse and say something they know they shouldn't that's irrevocable, and end up in divorce.  Stupid?  Sure, but it happens all the time.

We're talking about reactions to extreme situations and human reactions cannot be pigeonholed into what's right and wrong, or smart or stupid.

That's all I'm trying to say, and I'm not trying to be a dick about it, either.
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 12:36pm Report to Moderator
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I totally understand people make stupid mistakes. But what Oscar did was really stupid. I mean the commander has got backup with guns. Oscar's seeing this. I think if Oscar was real, he'll have a problem with the situation he's being forced to do.

I think the writer is forcing him to do something he doesn't want too. Oscar's asking for trouble. He's not doing this on the spur of the moment as a quick decision. He's got every reason to live.
  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 1:08pm Report to Moderator
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Kudos for taking a stab at the OWC beast!

P. 4
Reads pretty smooth.
I dig the whole witches and Nazis thing.
It makes sense, in a way you don’t see often.

P. 5
Seen the barn thing in lots of WWII flicks.
I get that it makes sense, but it’s a bit of a letdown for me.

P. 6
Got “she presses” twice in a row in action descriptions.
Normally, it’s barely worth mentioning...
However, this script’s pretty clean, so it stands out.

P. 6
Uncharacteristically vague descriptive from you...
Nazi cars and trucks...
Something more specific would fit the scene IMO.
P. 8
Typo.
Helene. We are sorry for your lose.

Finished.
One of the smoothest reads yet.
The narrative and dialogue jibe well.
I’m never confused and the pacing kept me engaged.
The plot didn’t wow me, but it tells it’s story very well.
Nicely done.

Regards,
E.D.


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mcornetto
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 8:44pm Report to Moderator
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I thought the logline was pretty good.  It kind of lacked a focused protagonist and her goal and there was no irony.   I would like to see the logline written more from her perspective because I think that's where the story is going to lie after reading the script.

The script itself was well-written enough.  I'm, perhaps, not as much of a fan as many of the other readers.  I kind of think this Nazi stuff is overdone - it's the 21st century after all - and both the Nazi and the British forces are on the cliche side in this script.

Unfortunately, I have to make some comparisons here with the other Nazi script Of Mice and Monsters - where the Nazis are not as cliche.  Perhaps you can bring something different as the script continues - not sure.    

However, I can easily see this extended into a feature, you have plenty of material to pull from with that historical period.

Good luck with the script.
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leitskev
Posted: March 10th, 2012, 6:28pm Report to Moderator
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In the process of re-reading the leading contenders.

I liked this the first time I read it...like it even more the second time! Very well done.

One huge suggestion: use contractions. The dialogue is better on the second read, and I think the problem on first read was largely that it sounded formal. Use contractions, and I think the dialogue works quite well, generally.

You've set things up nice. Helene is on the run through Poland, banned from her village, hunted by the Nazis. Ewan is sent to rescue her. Yup, I like it.

And it's clear Helene did not use her magic in time to save the villagers because she is young and not quite sure how. She barely gets out of the barn. And she does make a weak effort to surrender to the Nazis before Anna stands up.

So, on second read, more impressed than on the first, and I was impressed on the first. Excellent work!!
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 12th, 2012, 10:08pm Report to Moderator
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I skimmed through this piece again just to have a better understanding. I still dig the idea but:

You should establish early on Helene's inadequate ability to use her witchcraft. It explains a lot. Also, show her learning how to do some spells normally. I would still prefer some attack spells but, this your story.

Oscar should not be defiant the way you have him. And if you want him to be defiant, at least give Oscar better weapons. The way he's presented is foolish.  The Villagers will at least be prepared for the Nazis return. Then you can kill off the two villagers if you want. Or better yet, have the Villagers fight against the Nazi's. The village is going down. I will think that will provoke Helene to start improving her powers. And like Jeff said, when push comes to shove, their is so much a person can take. Oscar and the villagers are privy to the idea that the Nazis might return back. If they know this, they're going to be prepared.  Are you going to bring a knife to a gun fight? Want a surprise opening, start with a battle.  

Helene should leave on her own accord as oppose to the Villagers telling her to leave due to the reason that people are dying. In the scene presented to the reader, Oscar initiated the two deaths. The Nazis may have been there for the witch, but Oscar lit the flame by spitting at the shoe. Granted it could have started at any old time, but the villagers would have brought some more time entertaining the Nazis with their fake weakness (the villagers don't have to be genuinely pleading).  

These are all just suggestions. Take them or leave it.

Hope this helps  
Gabe  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Mr.Ripley  -  March 12th, 2012, 10:42pm
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steven8
Posted: March 14th, 2012, 4:28am Report to Moderator
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This is cool.  Very cool.  Not one word to be said by me in any way on corrections of any kind.  This is going to make an awesome full length script.  The Germans think they have her, but the allies know who the real one is, which gives tham a head start -- when the Germans find out -- the race is on!!

I can't wait to see this made feature!!  


...in no particular order
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MacDuff
Posted: March 18th, 2012, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. I'm just away from home right now and typing this on my iPhone. When I get back home, I can respond to all the questions, concerns and suggestions about the story, characters, and believability of certain situations.

Thanks again,
Stew


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MacDuff
Posted: March 21st, 2012, 12:27pm Report to Moderator
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Hi all,

I wanted to respond to everyone's fantastic critiques and answer some questions about the setup for this story. I started by individually quoting feedback and attempted to respond individually, but it's too messy. So, I've decided to respond in whole and I hope to cover everyone's feedback.

First off all - a very big thanks to everyone who left feedback. I have some great notes to go back to these 10 pages with and to keep in mind for the following pages.

That being said, here are my answers and followup on the story...

First of all, I am looking to write historical action/supernatural based script. Think more Defiance/WWII movies rather than Captain America/Hellboy. Yes, there will be some supernatural elements to the script (which builds over time), but I'm hoping to keep the tone and genre grounded, especially due to the fact that it's based on WWII events.

There were a lot of comments and suggestions about the opening 10 pages. I wrote this script from a few different perspectives at first, but settled on what you see now. I moved the intro to Ewan back to the 9th/10th page (the Star Wars-type intro). There are a few more pages involving Ewan that come after the last scene and need to run-on from that scene. Moving Ewan to the opening did not work as it slowed the pace down and pushed everything back (inciting incident, conflict, etc). I wanted to start the first scene as quickly as possible, jump right into the conflict and set the pace early.

As the dust settles from the opening sequences, you will see who the real players are and what their agendas are.

Rudolph Heiss is partially inspired by Rudi Hess... For some reason I subconsciously created the name of this character without realizing it is too close to Hess. I have since tweaked his name. And yes, Weiss (new name) is reckless and mind-bent on his goal, that he can overlook certain situations. A character flaw.

I tried different setups with the execution scene - including killing all the men and taking all the women, but I found Weiss (his new name) did not like that - too complicated. Anna's appearance and the subsequent destruction of the lights were enough for him - plus he had been 'guided' there by his clairvoyants that he trusted her too much.

There has been a lot of discussion about the human element of the first scene and why certain people reacted the way they did. I can tell you that nothing was random and at this certain moment, they have reasons (which will probably change with re-writes). For instance:

- Oscar's defiance happens outside the village - so the villagers have no idea what transpired. As for his defiance, he is not only looking out for the village, but certain women who are important to him. The opening 2 sentences setup a lot ("There are no Jews here," "You know why we are here." There is a reason why Oscar is the one who greets them, and why his actions could seem selfish.

- This scene is partially inspired by true accounts. Some people said this was not realistic; but unfortunately this happened. When word got out that German forces were storming through small Polish villages - taking all of the Jewish inhabitants away, some villagers stood up to them (to their demise). Many only had pitch forks, hunting rifles, axes, etc. Sad, but true.

- There is a reason why Anna steps forward when the women are brought forward and not before the men are brought forward. It is revealed later in the script.

- Adding a scene with either Anna or Helene before the German's arrived slowed the script down, much like an expanded Ewan opening. I chose the structure I did because it introduces all of our characters in conflict.

- I have purposely setup a 3-pronged story which could turn into a 4-pronged story. Nice catch, Basket Case.

One quote:


Quoted from Felipe
I think that while there is othing wrong with a character making a selfish decision, it has to be clear to the reader that the character has made the decision for a reason, even if the reason is unknown at the time. It can't feel like the reason is because the writer didn't think things through or seemingly didn't. This was my first read so I don't even remember having a problem with her actions as much as the first villager we meet.

Actually I don't know if anyone else thought this, but I think the woman the Nazis took has no powers at all. When they asked her to show her powers, she looked to the side like "what now?" I think it might have been the other girl who conjured the magic both times.


- Cinemachado also picked up some subtext and descriptions that I may need to make a bit clearer in the rewrites. Great catch!

The next post will deal with some deficiencies.



Revision History (4 edits; 1 reasons shown)
MacDuff  -  March 21st, 2012, 12:51pm
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