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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    February 2012 OWC  ›  The Secret War - OWC
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  Author    The Secret War - OWC  (currently 5312 views)
Don
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 2:52pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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The Secret War by 0 - Short - British and German forces search for a girl who possesses supernatural abilities that could help turn the tide of World War 2. - pdf, format


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leitskev
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 3:37pm Report to Moderator
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Needs much work, but this one has much potential, and writer seems to have plenty of talent. I'm in a hurry, so I will give a better review later. But I wanted to say this has some good things going for it. The setting and tone are well established, a strong opening image.

I am assuming Ewan will be your protag. If so, you might want to shorten the Poland and Germany scenes to about half what they are. As it is, we meet the protag on page 9, which is kind of late.

If Anna is the protag, we need to know something about her, get a sense of what she's about, what she wants, what her flaw is.

But you're off to a very good start towards a feature. If Ewan is the protag, we have his goal well set up, and we do care whether Anna is rescued. I look forward to seeing where things go.
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Ledbetter
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 3:51pm Report to Moderator
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I liked Heiss. You descried him well. The quintessential German killer.

The story is vivid and pretty cleanly written. A great start to a feature for sure.

I little vague on who is what but it has good ground work for further explanation on in the story.

You should complete this. It would make for an enjoyable read.

Shawn…..><
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Andrew
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 4:04pm Report to Moderator
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Usually before reading a OWC script, I'll have look over several before settling, but I saw this and got straight in to it. It's a great logline: concise, compelling and clearly crafting images of what to expect.

It's good work for one week. It's an interesting choice (if in fact it is supposed to be Rudolph Hess - not sure if the 'i' was intentional, a differentiator or simply a spelling error) in calling your SS Commander He(i)ss because of his fate in England, which has been debated ever since. It struck me as incompetent that he took Anna when it wasn't clear she was in fact the one with the powers. It's pretty obvious to us that it's Helene. I couldn't work out (if it is supposed to be Hess), if you've added a clear nod to incompetence (something he was accused of), therefore adding more texture when interwoven with history. Surely it would've made more sense to kill all the men and take all the women? That way there can be no doubt of the identity. That was something that struck me and stuck with me.

You did a good job of showing how ruthlessly evil the Nazis were and it was very vivid. It felt a little anachronistic to me that you showed the men offering Helene a horse and cart. There was a potentially interesting parallel with Braveheart - where of course we see the English being the brutal killers - in how evil destroyed the village. Here we are now in WWII and the Brits are on the other side but the merciless killing is the same, irrespective of nationality. An interesting insight into the human condition.

As you left Helene at the village, there's no leverage for the Nazis when they have Anna at the cell. They're threatening and brutalising her (without a hint of fear of recrimination for doing so - she's supposedly possessing abiliities that could destroy these men, but they treat her like any other prisoner) with no means to derive the outcome they want. You need to introduce additional elements to circumvent that problem.

For a week, this is a well conceived and delivered 10 pages.


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Forgive
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 4:20pm Report to Moderator
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Overall I thought that was a pretty good effort - it did appear at bit vague during the beginning (writing style) - and that action scene felt a little bit 'soft' to me - maybe just me, thought.

As things went on, the writing seemed to sharpen up, and what looked like a small story seemed to expand into a bigger picture - I liked that - it expanded well into something that really does have potential for a feature.

The protag issue didn't seem huge to me - you keep the interest, so that it's fine to introduce people later - especially whilst the hint (must be) that Helene and Ewan end up falling in love - and Helene must be drawn to rescuing Anna (who might turn all evil on us).

So good stuff - but I'd still try and liven up some of the action scenes some.
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Felipe
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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As others have mentioned, there are some things to fix with this one, but it's a great premise for a script.

I'm not sure who the main character is but my first assumption would be Helene. It could also be Anna or Ewan. I'm not too sure.

Some of the dialogue in the beginning sounds a little forced, but that's usually the case in early drafts of scripts. I trust you'd be able to fix that up.

You have an interesting story here and I look forward to reading more.


'Artist' is not a term you should use to refer to yourself. Let others, and your work, do it for you.
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stevie
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 7:15pm Report to Moderator
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Sort of mixed feelings about this. I'm a huge WW2 buff so the log drew me in.

But it seemed to the old 'paint by numbers' thing going on(like what happened in the Halloween challenge last October). You have all the cliched chars - the evil Nazi boss, the cowering villagers, etc.
Nothing wrong with this of course, as it's part of period writing. The witch aspect, of her being sought to aid the war effort of both sides, is naturally the key, and those bits were done well.

The writing itself was good, it just needs more original voice. I would read the feature so I say go for it!

Ironically, my initial idea for this OWC was a comedy about witches in WW2...lol

Cheers stevie



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Dreamscale
Posted: March 3rd, 2012, 10:26pm Report to Moderator
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Bravo!  Bravo!  Thank you...finally...much more than a "good effort".  This is, concept wise and setup wise, a great effort.  Very well done.

Lots of writing mistakes on display, but overall, these can be overlooked based on such a nice premise, setup, and even execution, overall.

2 things I will stress, are the over abundance of CAPPED words that don't need to be CAPPED and the way too large number of orphans.  OK, 3 things - spelling errors that are so easy to fix need attention.

Overall, these are easily fixed and because this "works" so well, no big deal after (in theory) only 1 week's work.

Easily, BY FAR the best of the first 10 I've read so far.  This is a great idea that you definitely should continue with.  Take your time with it, fix it, clean it up, as the first 10 pages are so important to show what kind of writer you are.

I can easily see interest in your concept, and if you continue in the path you've laid out, you just may have a real winner on your hands here.

Great job!  Very impressive!
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: March 4th, 2012, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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Title - doesn't suggest witch but I like  it all the same. I love war stories and indeed my last OWC was one

Logline - Better than most. Does it say enough? It is definitely intriguing, to me, but I wonder whether ...but the something happens...could help.

Story - I love it. Ok there are a good few issues but I love a war story and this appealed.

Suggestions;

1) Opening scene - we need to get a feel of the unnormal in a well known world. Ok this pops up in the display, but we don't know that, we don't know what is being hidden. Could there be a scene where she helps a sick child, then is quickly thrown into the mess. Anna sees this so offers herself. We then tie in drama.

2) protag - I would like to see something of him first. The script for seven has Morgan freeman  first, but when it was filmed and edited they changed this to reflect who they needed to show first. In this story we are going to track a man going to get this girl. He needs to be more involved early on.

I have a guess who wrote this, time will tell.

All the best.



My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
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IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Ryan1
Posted: March 4th, 2012, 4:20pm Report to Moderator
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A solid opening with a great premise.  This one managed to intro quite a few characters, but did so with clarity and ease.  The period detail was good and the pacing was very efficient.

I remember reading how Hitler had a fascination with the occult, so I bought the idea that he would send out his goon squads to track down a witch.

There's a lot of different ways the story could go from here, from a "Saving Private Ryan" style hunt for the witch, to more of a tightly focused "witch vs. Hitler" character piece.  Anyway, I'd like to read more.  Good job on this one.
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Pale Yellow
Posted: March 4th, 2012, 4:24pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting logline.

Spelling errors and other easy fix things.  

I liked the tension at the beginning in the village ...

I am interested in what happens. What will happen to Helene and Anna.

Good job ..look forward to reading more of this if you continue ...
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B.C.
Posted: March 5th, 2012, 5:05pm Report to Moderator
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Nice work. One of those occasions where I can't really add to whats already been said, unfort.

Leaves the reader wanting more...and would be interesting to see how the writer is going to scruture this into a feature. There's already a 3-pronged story set up after 11 pages, which looks like it could get a bit messy. (However I would guess the Helene character wont be lasting long!)

Good luck if you are gonna continue, and well done if it's already been planned in advance!

Enjoyed.
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greg
Posted: March 6th, 2012, 2:11am Report to Moderator
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Concept wise this is great.  Execution needs work.  

I'm a history buff and love studying this era, so if you choose to continue on with a feature I'd recommend reading up on the execution squads that plowed through Polish villages such as the one you opened with.  It's a pretty deep story and has offered a lot of insight into the minds of Nazi soldiers.  Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning documents them well.  

And Helene being kicked out of the village cause she brings a curse with her - can't buy that during WWII.  Needs another reason.  

But again, the idea is great.  Both sides pursuing this woman with special powers.  For the challenge she's a witch but maybe just make her something else if you choose to continue.  

This would be an interesting one to see how it unfolds.

Nice job.

Greg


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CoopBazinga
Posted: March 6th, 2012, 3:43am Report to Moderator
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I liked this one on the whole, it’s set up nicely. The writing was good, needs a bit of a polishing here and there but all easy fixes.

I actually think you gave us too many characters here in the first 10 pages, there was a lot and at one point I had to go back and see when Helene was intro’d because I missed it with all that was happening.

I personally feel the last two scenes, the village and England need to be swapped around for a better impact, maybe not for this challenge because it ends well but for the feature overall. It would introduce Ewan earlier and then we skip to Helene being thrown from the village. Just a thought.

I think you’ve got a strong premise here, hope you carry it on.

Congrats on completing the OWC.

Steve
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rdhay
Posted: March 6th, 2012, 10:06pm Report to Moderator
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Awesome!! This was an easy and interesting read and is definitely my favorite;) I could totally see this playing out in my head as I read. IMHO, this has huge potential.

I was a bit confused with the characters in the beginning (Anna & Helene, particularly), but once I looked back it made sense.

Awesome job!!
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Abe from LA
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 4:28am Report to Moderator
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One of the better entries.  It reads well and the opening scene of executions launches this story off with a bang.

I think another writer raised this question, if Anna has certain powers, why don't the Nazis respect that power? She's a weapon, yet they brutalize her like any other prisoner.

I find it interesting that the Brits have a picture of Helene, yet the Germans are trying to figure out who the witches are.

Enjoyed the bit of dialogue by Major Barnes regarding Ewan's ability to escape capture:  "what I'm more interested in is your seemingly efficient ability to find yourself behind enemy lines."  Thought that was a nice little send off for the rest of the story.

There are some questions, which will likely be answered as this story rolls along.  I enjoyed the read and love the drop-back of Europe during WW II.  Excellent start.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 3:16pm Report to Moderator
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I think this is very impressive. One thing I would say is that a witch would be very careful as to how and when she uses her powers because she knows that everything has impact and the frivilous use of such power comes back really badly.

When the question come as they will:

Can she use her powers against her captors?

No doubt, yes, she can, but having power doesn't mean you use it to save yourself.

Very good work on a seriousl subject.

Sandra



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Andrew
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 3:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra

When the question come as they will:

Can she use her powers against her captors?

No doubt, yes, she can, but having power doesn't mean you use it to save yourself.


The logic questioned is more to do with the Nazis taking preventative measures to guard against her 'power'. They seek her to change the direction of the war, but fail to take any basic steps to protect themselves against her. I personally don't think the story can move forward without addressing that logic deficit. That is quite a different issue to an internalised set of rules governing use of the 'power', and to the extent that we're privy to said rules.

There's a fundamental distinction between the concern raised and your interpretation of it.


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wonkavite
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 9:12pm Report to Moderator
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Not amazingly original (what story with evil Nazis really is?)  

But - I really enoyed this one.  Strong characters, solid writing.  The story held my attention easily, was never a chore to read.  

I'm afraid I don't have much more to say about this one, other than this: if given pages 11 - 100, I'd keep reading.

Cheers,

--J
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irish eyes
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 10:41pm Report to Moderator
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Logline... Interesting, drawed me in.

The writing was great for me, the scenes with the nazis and the witch and villagers and the witch where excellant. You seem to have 3 protags Ewan and the 2 witches.

You set it up nicely for a great feature, which I would love to read.
And as it`s my last for tonight... one of my favs

good job on finishing the OWC

Mark


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VaultMan
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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My problem with this was the characters. Not that they are poorly written or something, no, quite on the contrary, they're great. It's just that there's too much of figures that might or might not be someone important. My initial idea was that Oscar is out protagonist. We see the bad guys, we see the guy who tries to stop them, the usual stuff. But then he gets killed. Not that it's a big deal, but it's a bit misleading. Oscar seems bigger than he really is. So, Ewan is the real protagonist? And we meet him right at the inciting incident? Or maybe Helena is the protag? A lot of characters, but not really clear who is who here. A fast read, though, I really enjoyed it.


Chukcha not reader, Chukcha writer!
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 5:44pm Report to Moderator
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Stopped on pg.4. Not to be mean, I don't buy the fact that she will reveal herself after having complete strangers getting killed. Why not do it in the beginning and save the people who already got shot? She will reveal herself if one of her loved ones was in danger.

Why is Oscar disrespecting the SS soldier like that? The SS soldier has got backup with weapons. I doubt that would have happened especially what happens after Oscar spits at the SS soldier's shoe.  

I dig the concept. Just need to work some of those kinks.

Hope this helps,
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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leitskev
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 6:20pm Report to Moderator
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I have to say I agree with Gabe. This in many ways was one of my favorite scripts of the OWC, but little, critical things like this bothered me as well.

I think the concept has legs. If you are going to continue with the script, I do suggest reworking this opening sequence so that it's much more believable. That will be a challenge because this is a serious premise involving killing and sacrifice. And I think you will need a little more than 10 pages, unless you cut this down to one powerful scene.

Keep in mind, despite Hogan's Heros, Nazis weren't stupid. They conquered half the world on minimal resources. They are evil, not stupid, which is also why they make great antagonists.

I definitely encourage the writer to continue. Like I said, one of my favs to read.

Gabe, if you check back: love the poster for MAx's!
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 8:14pm Report to Moderator
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I have to say I disagree vehemently with Vaultman, Gabe, and Kev, and actually find these comments downright ludicrous.

First of all, this is an intro.  Main Protag does not necessarily have to be the first character we see.  Chances are good that the vast majority of these characters have already served their purposes and will be gone from here on out.

Gabe, I'm shocked you would stop reading based on the reasons you gave.  You're saying that because you would reveal yourself based on the situation that everyone would - doesn't work that way.  In many ways, this was a no win situation for the whole lot of them as we see by the German's actions once they get their girl.

Kev, same goes to you, bro.  Of all the things wrong here, this is simply an opinion on human character, and as we know, everyone's different.
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leitskev
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 9:47pm Report to Moderator
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Not really sure what you mean as far as my comment, Jeff. Please expand on.

I do think there's no reason not to finish this script. It's a very easy read.

What I had problems in the execution of the scene was how she allowed the Nazis to kill everyone, then stepped forward. At least that's one of the things I remember, and I would have to read again.

After the reveal, I am willing to read again if the writer is someone who did reviews here. Especially if the writer wants to continue to work on the story.  

What I remember is not being able to completely buy into the way those opening scenes played out. And you know I am one who is willing to give a story a lot of suspension of disbelief for the sake of the story. But this is a delicate scene which must be convincing.  

How long do you think, I'm curious, the sequence of scenes before London would take in the film? Could it be done in ten minutes? fifteen?

A word on the intro. I have no problem if the Protag is not introduced in the first scene, which can be something that is there to introduce us to the genre, to set the tone. However, if the protag is not introduced there, then this intro should not be very long. I don't think it's advisable to have 10 or 15 minutes of tone setting, and THEN go to our hero.

Or, if our protag is introduced in this sequence, either one of the two girls, Helen and Anna, it should be clear which one is the protag, and we should learn some important things about her. We should have a sense of who she is, what she wants, even what her flaw is. Certainly we should be somewhat bonded to her by the time we go to London.

Curious what you think about these, my main objections here.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 10:17pm Report to Moderator
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Kev, my comment to you had to do with your agreement with Gabe that a character's actions were unrealistic to the point where they needed to be reworked, and that it was a major flaw.  I completely disagree.

As a matter of fact, I've seen countless movies where a character had to make a choice between something (them self, for instance) and something else (a group of other peeps).  To simply assume that everyone will just say, "Oh sure, it's me you're after.  take me." is both cliche and not understanding human nature, in that everyone is different and everyone reacts differently under major stress and duress.

IMO, the best characters are the ones who don't always make the "right" choices at the right time.  But as I said, this scenario played out like many horror movies do, in that no matter what you do, you're fucked, and everyone else is fucked as well.

Now, the cool thing here, was that the village peeps actually survived...we're saved, so to speak, and based on this, we see that we have 2 (most likely) Protags that are both a force to be reckoned with.

But, I want to take this and a general point a few steps further.  IMO, the vast majority of readers are missing the very essence of what an intro or the first 10 pages or minutes are to a feature.

Based on the feedback, the scripts that tied things up neatly in 10 pages, or were actually shorts in disguise, seemed to fare better than the scripts that actually were (most likely) actual beginnings to feature scripts that potentially had legs.

So many want to believe that such and such has to happen by page whatever, but in reality, it all depends on the genre, the style, the tone, the feel, and the structure of what the script or film is going to be.

Starting off with a bang is cool and all, but definitely not required, as long as that bang goes off sooner than later...and again in the finale, where it's most important.

People don't get up and walk out of a movie if they're not totally wowed in the first 10 minutes.  And I'm not saying starting dull is the way to go, by any means, but there's a way to cook over low heat that can produce a much hotter entree than blowing your load long before the party's even started.

Just sayin'...
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leitskev
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 11:25pm Report to Moderator
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I actually won't argue any of these points. The choices the characters made in this script didn't totally convince me, but it could be a matter of tweaking dialogue. I don't remember for sure. I just felt unconvinced.

I agree with your point on the intros. In fact, a problem with this challenge might be that it should be 15 pages, or even 20, which is a better time to evaluate an intro.

But you did not address what my criticism was...at all. I don't think things need to be tied up by any means. And I did not mention an inciting incident. The first ten pages is prime real estate in a script. There's a lot you have to get done. Early in a script we need to establish the genre, the tone, the protag, and the antagonistic force. Not because some book or theory says so, but because if not then, when? You need to get this stuff established. We should start to get a sense of the story. we should start to get a sense of who the protag is, what's he want, what's he all about.

So I am just talking about things that need to be done to set up a story. You don't want to find yourself setting this stuff up on page 25. There's too much that has to be established, you want to get as much out of the way as possible in the first 10 pages.

If you're not going to intro your protag in the opening sequence, fine. Neither did Star Wars. But you knew what the movie was about within minutes, and the antagonist was established. It's a little unconventional in Star Wars in that the opening is long, but once we get to Luke, we spend a lot of time getting to know him.

So my humble suggestion remains here. If one of the girls is the protag, let's make clear which one, and let's learn just a bit more about her so the audience connects to her. If the guy in London is the protag, I suggest, despite the Stars Wars example, that the opening sequence be sharpened and shortened by a, and I'm putting this in terms of time, several minutes.

Again, I'm a fan of the story here, so only trying to help. This story is one of my leading contenders to vote for, so I am not attacking it.

Jeff, one last thing: Don added that shorts were acceptable for the challenge. So I don't think the problem was people submitting them. The problem might be in comparing them to features, or in knowing whether it's a short or feature. But there should be no problem that people submitted them, as it was said to be welcome.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 8th, 2012, 11:42pm Report to Moderator
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I think I agree with everything you said here, Kev.

I would say that IMO, there doesn't have to be only a single Protag or a single Antag, though...at least not laid out within the first 10 minutes by any means.  Maybe I'm used to, or appreciate the structure of horror, or even mystery genres, when I say this.

For instance, take your classic slasher-type scenario, which can also easily be considered a who dunnit murder mystery.  We're intro'd to a (rather) large group of potential Antags and Protags, and 1 by one, they're eliminated - sometimes, quite literally, as being either the Antag or Protag.

I agree with you 100% about shorts being acceptable here, but my point is more in line with the fact that most people seemed to bring up whether or not they had a clear understanding of both plot and characters (and their motivations, flaws, journey, arc, whatever you want to call it), and that seemed to be held as a negative for those in which they were unclear...or those in which the writer purposely left them unclear.

That's a bad way to look at a script or movie, IMO.  Some of the best are going to be those that surprise you, shock you, or just go somewhere you weren't expecting, and that's also exactly the aim of many great writers, as well as movies.

Hope I'm clear and I didn't mean to attack you in any way.  Secret War is my favorite entry in terms of concept - easily.  By far not my favorite in terms of writing, as it leaves alot to be desired.  But believe it or not, I can actually overlook writing flaws when something either works or has the potential to work...and I honestly think this does.

I look forward to finding out who wrote this.  I have a guess...actually 2, but I'm far from sure.  I'm guessing it's a guy, and I'm guessing this guy has either written 1 other OWC, or 3.  Hmmm, who could that be?

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Dreamscale  -  March 9th, 2012, 9:24am
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Mr.Ripley
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Hey Jeff,

This is an intro to the character who just let two innocent villagers die. So why would she care for the women? She didn't care for the first two. Hell, she could not reveal herself and let the Nazis kill the women. Stay hidden and then flee because someone's going to reveal her if the women were going to die. Isn't that part of human nature too, telling on someone to save one's or someone else's skin.

Also, what type of punishment is that for Oscar? Oscar spits at the SS Soldier's shoes and the SS Soilder kills two people next to him? We don't know their relationship to Oscar. Make Oscar pay. Cut the head off a snake and everyone goes down.

And that act of violence after will surely inform people the situation that they're in. Don't fuck with this guy. Hell, one of the people he catches should identify the witch real quick. I'm sure someone will. At that same time, the witch can attack the soldiers. Battle. One of them escapes, prob the one whose shoe was spit on. That's something.

And top it off, Oscar is acting defiant with pitchforks. Nazis have guns. I think there's a problem there. You can be defiant professionally but not so brash with just pitchforks. Granted, they've got a witch but apparently she let two people die so my money is not on that she's going to do something.

And why be defiant with Nazis in that fashion. They're in power. And in the situation presented in the story, they're clearly armed with better equipment than the villagers.  

Something just came to me: what if the witch killed the Nazis before any of the villagers got attacked? That'll be an interesting opening and will convey alot.  Don't know the witches capabilities but I'm sure she should have something in her arsenal that will allow her to attack these Nazis without being detected. And the result, she saved herself, she saved the villagers, and she kicked ass...for the time being.

That's just my opinion.
Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

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Mr.Ripley  -  March 9th, 2012, 4:26am
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Felipe
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I think that while there is othing wrong with a character making a selfish decision, it has to be clear to the reader that the character has made the decision for a reason, even if the reason is unknown at the time. It can't feel like the reason is because the writer didn't think things through or seemingly didn't. This was my first read so I don't even remember having a problem with her actions as much as the first villager we meet.

Actually I don't know if anyone else thought this, but I think the woman the Nazis took has no powers at all. When they asked her to show her powers, she looked to the side like "what now?" I think it might have been the other girl who conjured the magic both times.


'Artist' is not a term you should use to refer to yourself. Let others, and your work, do it for you.
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Forgive
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I think there's a couple of points here - I think that we have been introduced to the main protags - and that has been done within the ten page slot.

We don't really have an indepth relation with them - but that's for the rest of the feature, we just have a clear picture of who the main players are.

I think the script has been clever as we don't know if both Anna and Helene are witches or just one of them - they're key people, but what is their relationship? This is all stuff to be developed - as with Ewan - we know he is the 'man to watch' - and that is all that is really necessary at this stage.

In regard to the killings - again, I think that the scripts has been specific here. The first two villagers were shot at the gates, and we have established that there is some relation/history between Oscar and Heiss.

This occurs at the village gates, and there is then a scene change to the village square, where the villages are rounded up - so there is the indication that none of these villagers know exactly what happened at the gates.

Heiss does not debate long before he kills the menfolk, so Anna has very little time to make a decision - and we have to take into account that Anna may well not be the witch and protecting a terrified Helene, who repays Anna's bravery by 'proving' the existence of witch-power by blowing the bulbs for Anna. Contorted maybe, but a possibility. (And I know this contains problems in itself).

As for the Nazi 'preparing' for the Witches power - I'm not too sure I buy that. The witch has, to some extent, to co-operate, as she is now very well aware that the Nazi are quite happy to sacrifice fellow-villages' lives, so there is enough compulsion to comply with the Nazis.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Forgive
As for the Nazi 'preparing' for the Witches power - I'm not too sure I buy that. The witch has, to some extent, to co-operate, as she is now very well aware that the Nazi are quite happy to sacrifice fellow-villages' lives, so there is enough compulsion to comply with the Nazis.


This is kind of a response to both Gabe and the above quote.

IMO, and I'm no historian, it's quite clear what the Nazis did and were capable of long before this situation occurred.  I mean, the Nazis did this type of shit all the time, didn't they?  I'm referring to killing innocent peeps, not going after witches.

People are defiant by nature, especially when they know they're probably dead anyways, and even more so when a truly hated person/group is upon them.

I can't think of the movie right now (someone will hopefully help me), but there's a pretty cool scene in which a group of Nazis line up a group of innocent villagers and shoot them one by one until a certain person is identified.  It's at night and it's snowing.  I think some of it is done in Slo Mo.  Once the person is revealed, they're all killed anyways.  I'm pretty sure there is some defiance early on as well.

Anyways, again, my human nature comment means that you cannot always predict human nature.  Oskar's defiance makes prefect sense to me. I for one have seen it in many, many movies of many different genres, and I'm sure it's played out numerous times throughout history in every corner of the world.
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Mr.Ripley
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Someone's a witch who has certain abilities that could've stopped the deaths, depending on her abilities. Are you changing her powers? She did reveal some powers. Why not use it against the group of Nazis? Buy some time for the Villagers to leave.  

And isn't that info on how ruthless the Nazis are established already once they're introduced? Everyone hates Nazis. So why would Oscar spit at the Nazi's shoe? He knows something bad is going to happen. So it shouldn't have been a surprise for him if those two Villagers died. Hell, he's lucking he's breathing.  

What happened to Oscar's bravery after the two Villagers died? He's brave to spit but can't face death.  

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 10:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Ripley
Someone's a witch who has certain abilities that could've stopped the deaths, depending on her abilities. Are you changing her powers? She did reveal some powers. Why not use it against the group of Nazis? Buy some time for the Villagers to leave.  

And isn't that info on how ruthless the Nazis are established already once they're introduced? Everyone hates Nazis. So why would Oscar spit at the Nazi's shoe? He knows something bad is going to happen. So it shouldn't have been a surprise for him if those two Villagers died. Hell, he's lucking he's breathing.  

What happened to Oscar's bravery after the two Villagers died? He's brave to spit but can't face death.  

Gabe


Gabe, I'm not changing anything.  It sounds like you're trying to completely change things.

Why are you so adamant about protecting and saving these villagers?  For the story to work like I think the writer would take it, the Nazis and the commanding officer specifically, has to be set up as ruthless, heartless killers.

Osker's defiance shows character...makes the audience identify with him, and root for him and his peeps.

You keep saying that "the witch" obviously has these powers and should use them against the Nazis to protect her peeps, but you have no clue how this plays out, who is actually the witch, and why she didn't unleash her supposed powers.

None of this is your decision and since we're only 10 pages into a "big" story, I just don't understand why you keep digging about these things.

Unless you wrote this, you have no clue where it's going and have only (most likely) read it a single time, which means you know virtually nothing about it compared to the writer, who most likely spent a good deal of time coming up with the setup and story.

Let me just say it again, and this is a general statement, as well as a statement aimed at your comments.

Unless a character does something that virtually no one would actually do in a real life situation, it is foolish for someone to continually question the character's actions.  It just doesn't make any sense at all.  Characters in scripts and movies can do virtually anything their creator wants them to do.

Here are a couple examples for you that seems pretty much in line with the situation here.

Why do inmates continually spit, throw/shoot urine and feces at guards, knowing they're going to be sprayed with pepper spray and taken down violently, as well as go to solitary confinement, and/or get a longer stint in solitary if they're already there?

Why would a normal guy stand up to an armed thug over a monetary item that would be replaced by insurance, knowing that he could easily be killed or badly injured?

Both examples take place every single day around the world.
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Mr. Blonde
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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I did enjoy this one very much. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of your choice of dialogue, but the story and characters work well enough where the only real changes you need to make is with the dialogue.

Notes:

Nothing to make a big fuss over.


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Mr.Ripley
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Jeff

I'm just expressing my view. lol.

As a writer, you have to question the characters actions. If something seems not right, you question it. I even said I'm not being mean.

I'm offering suggestions which involves changing certain things. The writer doesn't need to take it. I'm not holding a gun to the writer.  

And I'm simply replying to your comments. We're having a discourse that's all. You're making points and I'm making points as well.


Quoted Text
Why do inmates continually spit, throw/shoot urine and feces at guards, knowing they're going to be sprayed with pepper spray and taken down violently, as well as go to solitary confinement, and/or get a longer stint in solitary if they're already there?


Not sure, but those inmates that do these are on death row, facing life, or going to die because of gang affiliation if they don't.

Were these villagers suffering that? They were not confined in a cell. They were still living. And i doubt they were going to do that back then. But who knows.

They're alive as long as they didn't mess around with the Nazis. Oscar caused trouble. Not to be disrespectful, that's not brave. That's stupid. There's a time when to be brave and when not too. In Oscar's s instance, don't be brave especially with two guys and pitchforks. In addition, the SS Commander is flanked with soldiers armed. How are you going to be brave against that?  


Quoted Text
Why would a normal guy stand up to an armed thug over a monetary item that would be replaced by insurance, knowing that he could easily be killed or badly injured?


If the normal guy is a martial artist, he can handle himself. lol. A majority of people give up there possessions. Those who don't are sorry to say stupid. They pay with their life for others to learn their mistakes.  Aren't there defensive courses that inform people to give up their possessions and call 911?

I dig the concept. But I think it needs work. That's all.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 12:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Ripley
I'm just expressing my view. lol.

As a writer, you have to question the characters actions. If something seems not right, you question it. I even said I'm not being mean.

I'm offering suggestions which involves changing certain things. The writer doesn't need to take it. I'm not holding a gun to the writer.  

And I'm simply replying to your comments. We're having a discourse that's all. You're making points and I'm making points as well.


Yes, Gabe, we are simply having a discussion and I didn't mean to imply that you were being mean or the like.

I think you continue to miss my point, though, and I think this quote is perfect to point out what I'm trying to say.  See if this makes sense...


Quoted from Mr.Ripley
A majority of people give up there possessions. Those who don't are sorry to say stupid. They pay with their life for others to learn their mistakes.


My point is that people make "stupid" decisions all the time.  In fact, these decisions may not even be stupid to them at the time they're making the decision.  Shit happens like this all the time, and the truth is that people really don't learn a lesson from it.

People get pissed about something at their job, say something they know they shouldn't, and get fired.  Stupid?  Sure, but it happens all the time.

People get pissed at their spouse and say something they know they shouldn't that's irrevocable, and end up in divorce.  Stupid?  Sure, but it happens all the time.

We're talking about reactions to extreme situations and human reactions cannot be pigeonholed into what's right and wrong, or smart or stupid.

That's all I'm trying to say, and I'm not trying to be a dick about it, either.
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Mr.Ripley
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I totally understand people make stupid mistakes. But what Oscar did was really stupid. I mean the commander has got backup with guns. Oscar's seeing this. I think if Oscar was real, he'll have a problem with the situation he's being forced to do.

I think the writer is forcing him to do something he doesn't want too. Oscar's asking for trouble. He's not doing this on the spur of the moment as a quick decision. He's got every reason to live.
  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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Electric Dreamer
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Kudos for taking a stab at the OWC beast!

P. 4
Reads pretty smooth.
I dig the whole witches and Nazis thing.
It makes sense, in a way you don’t see often.

P. 5
Seen the barn thing in lots of WWII flicks.
I get that it makes sense, but it’s a bit of a letdown for me.

P. 6
Got “she presses” twice in a row in action descriptions.
Normally, it’s barely worth mentioning...
However, this script’s pretty clean, so it stands out.

P. 6
Uncharacteristically vague descriptive from you...
Nazi cars and trucks...
Something more specific would fit the scene IMO.
P. 8
Typo.
Helene. We are sorry for your lose.

Finished.
One of the smoothest reads yet.
The narrative and dialogue jibe well.
I’m never confused and the pacing kept me engaged.
The plot didn’t wow me, but it tells it’s story very well.
Nicely done.

Regards,
E.D.


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mcornetto
Posted: March 9th, 2012, 8:44pm Report to Moderator
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I thought the logline was pretty good.  It kind of lacked a focused protagonist and her goal and there was no irony.   I would like to see the logline written more from her perspective because I think that's where the story is going to lie after reading the script.

The script itself was well-written enough.  I'm, perhaps, not as much of a fan as many of the other readers.  I kind of think this Nazi stuff is overdone - it's the 21st century after all - and both the Nazi and the British forces are on the cliche side in this script.

Unfortunately, I have to make some comparisons here with the other Nazi script Of Mice and Monsters - where the Nazis are not as cliche.  Perhaps you can bring something different as the script continues - not sure.    

However, I can easily see this extended into a feature, you have plenty of material to pull from with that historical period.

Good luck with the script.
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leitskev
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In the process of re-reading the leading contenders.

I liked this the first time I read it...like it even more the second time! Very well done.

One huge suggestion: use contractions. The dialogue is better on the second read, and I think the problem on first read was largely that it sounded formal. Use contractions, and I think the dialogue works quite well, generally.

You've set things up nice. Helene is on the run through Poland, banned from her village, hunted by the Nazis. Ewan is sent to rescue her. Yup, I like it.

And it's clear Helene did not use her magic in time to save the villagers because she is young and not quite sure how. She barely gets out of the barn. And she does make a weak effort to surrender to the Nazis before Anna stands up.

So, on second read, more impressed than on the first, and I was impressed on the first. Excellent work!!
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Mr.Ripley
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I skimmed through this piece again just to have a better understanding. I still dig the idea but:

You should establish early on Helene's inadequate ability to use her witchcraft. It explains a lot. Also, show her learning how to do some spells normally. I would still prefer some attack spells but, this your story.

Oscar should not be defiant the way you have him. And if you want him to be defiant, at least give Oscar better weapons. The way he's presented is foolish.  The Villagers will at least be prepared for the Nazis return. Then you can kill off the two villagers if you want. Or better yet, have the Villagers fight against the Nazi's. The village is going down. I will think that will provoke Helene to start improving her powers. And like Jeff said, when push comes to shove, their is so much a person can take. Oscar and the villagers are privy to the idea that the Nazis might return back. If they know this, they're going to be prepared.  Are you going to bring a knife to a gun fight? Want a surprise opening, start with a battle.  

Helene should leave on her own accord as oppose to the Villagers telling her to leave due to the reason that people are dying. In the scene presented to the reader, Oscar initiated the two deaths. The Nazis may have been there for the witch, but Oscar lit the flame by spitting at the shoe. Granted it could have started at any old time, but the villagers would have brought some more time entertaining the Nazis with their fake weakness (the villagers don't have to be genuinely pleading).  

These are all just suggestions. Take them or leave it.

Hope this helps  
Gabe  


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/

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Mr.Ripley  -  March 12th, 2012, 10:42pm
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This is cool.  Very cool.  Not one word to be said by me in any way on corrections of any kind.  This is going to make an awesome full length script.  The Germans think they have her, but the allies know who the real one is, which gives tham a head start -- when the Germans find out -- the race is on!!

I can't wait to see this made feature!!  


...in no particular order
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MacDuff
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Thanks to everyone for the great feedback. I'm just away from home right now and typing this on my iPhone. When I get back home, I can respond to all the questions, concerns and suggestions about the story, characters, and believability of certain situations.

Thanks again,
Stew


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MacDuff
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Hi all,

I wanted to respond to everyone's fantastic critiques and answer some questions about the setup for this story. I started by individually quoting feedback and attempted to respond individually, but it's too messy. So, I've decided to respond in whole and I hope to cover everyone's feedback.

First off all - a very big thanks to everyone who left feedback. I have some great notes to go back to these 10 pages with and to keep in mind for the following pages.

That being said, here are my answers and followup on the story...

First of all, I am looking to write historical action/supernatural based script. Think more Defiance/WWII movies rather than Captain America/Hellboy. Yes, there will be some supernatural elements to the script (which builds over time), but I'm hoping to keep the tone and genre grounded, especially due to the fact that it's based on WWII events.

There were a lot of comments and suggestions about the opening 10 pages. I wrote this script from a few different perspectives at first, but settled on what you see now. I moved the intro to Ewan back to the 9th/10th page (the Star Wars-type intro). There are a few more pages involving Ewan that come after the last scene and need to run-on from that scene. Moving Ewan to the opening did not work as it slowed the pace down and pushed everything back (inciting incident, conflict, etc). I wanted to start the first scene as quickly as possible, jump right into the conflict and set the pace early.

As the dust settles from the opening sequences, you will see who the real players are and what their agendas are.

Rudolph Heiss is partially inspired by Rudi Hess... For some reason I subconsciously created the name of this character without realizing it is too close to Hess. I have since tweaked his name. And yes, Weiss (new name) is reckless and mind-bent on his goal, that he can overlook certain situations. A character flaw.

I tried different setups with the execution scene - including killing all the men and taking all the women, but I found Weiss (his new name) did not like that - too complicated. Anna's appearance and the subsequent destruction of the lights were enough for him - plus he had been 'guided' there by his clairvoyants that he trusted her too much.

There has been a lot of discussion about the human element of the first scene and why certain people reacted the way they did. I can tell you that nothing was random and at this certain moment, they have reasons (which will probably change with re-writes). For instance:

- Oscar's defiance happens outside the village - so the villagers have no idea what transpired. As for his defiance, he is not only looking out for the village, but certain women who are important to him. The opening 2 sentences setup a lot ("There are no Jews here," "You know why we are here." There is a reason why Oscar is the one who greets them, and why his actions could seem selfish.

- This scene is partially inspired by true accounts. Some people said this was not realistic; but unfortunately this happened. When word got out that German forces were storming through small Polish villages - taking all of the Jewish inhabitants away, some villagers stood up to them (to their demise). Many only had pitch forks, hunting rifles, axes, etc. Sad, but true.

- There is a reason why Anna steps forward when the women are brought forward and not before the men are brought forward. It is revealed later in the script.

- Adding a scene with either Anna or Helene before the German's arrived slowed the script down, much like an expanded Ewan opening. I chose the structure I did because it introduces all of our characters in conflict.

- I have purposely setup a 3-pronged story which could turn into a 4-pronged story. Nice catch, Basket Case.

One quote:


Quoted from Felipe
I think that while there is othing wrong with a character making a selfish decision, it has to be clear to the reader that the character has made the decision for a reason, even if the reason is unknown at the time. It can't feel like the reason is because the writer didn't think things through or seemingly didn't. This was my first read so I don't even remember having a problem with her actions as much as the first villager we meet.

Actually I don't know if anyone else thought this, but I think the woman the Nazis took has no powers at all. When they asked her to show her powers, she looked to the side like "what now?" I think it might have been the other girl who conjured the magic both times.


- Cinemachado also picked up some subtext and descriptions that I may need to make a bit clearer in the rewrites. Great catch!

The next post will deal with some deficiencies.



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MacDuff  -  March 21st, 2012, 12:51pm
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MacDuff
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There are some issues that still need addressed:

- Some of the dialogue is a bit stilted. This is due to me trying to write from a perspective of Polish villagers speaking with German soldiers. I will tighten up.

- There were a lot of caps. I have always capitalized intro to characters (even if they are not a speaking role) and important noises. I have fixed. Thanks.

- Some of the opening scenes may feel cliched, but I believe it fits the story well and moves on to more original material. I do have to be careful though, as I don't want the story to feel 'done' or 'old'.

- Helene being given the horse and cart by the villagers felt a little wrong. I agree. Due to a re-write, this scene has shifted slightly and I feel it's more organic now.

SPOILER

- One of the biggest concerns was the Germans not being afraid of Anna's powers while in captivity. I am working on a solution to this, it's tricky without revealing some reasoning why... Coincidentally, there is no reason to fear Anna.

END SPOILER

- There are some spelling and grammar mistakes. Working on this.

- I do write in orphans. It's always been my way. I am trying to tighten up certain passages that will help smooth out the read.


Quoted from greg
Concept wise this is great.  Execution needs work.  

I'm a history buff and love studying this era, so if you choose to continue on with a feature I'd recommend reading up on the execution squads that plowed through Polish villages such as the one you opened with.  It's a pretty deep story and has offered a lot of insight into the minds of Nazi soldiers.  Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning documents them well.


Thanks Greg - I will read up on this.


I think that was it. Thanks again everyone.

I am now on Page 35 and editing as I go. The first 10 have slightly changed, some dialogue changes to setup further events, clarification on current events and some shifts in power within each scene.

The biggest challenge I am currently facing his the reasoning for the German's wanting the 'gifted one' - I'm trying to nail down the exact reasoning for it - the consequences of them achieving this goal vs the consequences of the British achieving this goal. Working on it.

Cheers,
Stewart


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leitskev
Posted: March 21st, 2012, 1:59pm Report to Moderator
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I thought it was great work. An engaging first 10 pages that also did a dynamite job of setting up a feature. Some of my original criticisms can be discarded, as some of the problems I perceived were really not issues at all. I liked it a lot on my first read, loved on my second. I look forward to the rest, Mac!
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Mr.Ripley
Posted: March 21st, 2012, 2:03pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Macduff

It was my first time reading your stuff. I dig the concept. I've never seen this type of script your trying to create. I just had a problem with the opening. I think Oscar and the two others should be equipped with rifles. lol. But your the writer and it's your choice. No hard feelings. If you do post this feature, I will surely be first in line to read it.

Gabe


Just Murdered by Sean Elwood (Zombie Sean) and Gabriel Moronta (Mr. Ripley) - (Dark Comedy, Horror) All is fair in love and war. A hopeless romantic gay man resorts to bloodshed to win the coveted position of Bridesmaid. 99 pages.
https://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-comedy/m-1624410571/
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MacDuff
Posted: March 21st, 2012, 2:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I thought it was great work. An engaging first 10 pages that also did a dynamite job of setting up a feature. Some of my original criticisms can be discarded, as some of the problems I perceived were really not issues at all. I liked it a lot on my first read, loved on my second. I look forward to the rest, Mac!


Cheers. Thanks for you feedback. I'm hoping the story and pace will stay strong throughout the remaining pages!


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MacDuff
Posted: March 21st, 2012, 2:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mr.Ripley
Hey Macduff

It was my first time reading your stuff. I dig the concept. I've never seen this type of script your trying to create. I just had a problem with the opening. I think Oscar and the two others should be equipped with rifles. lol. But your the writer and it's your choice. No hard feelings. If you do post this feature, I will surely be first in line to read it.

Gabe


Hey Gabe - no hard feelings at all!!

I appreciate all feedback and value everyone's opinions and ideas. Thanks for taking the time to comment on the script and join in in the discussion.

I'm hoping the remaining pages have the same amount of responses - it's a great way to make sure you have covered everything and not overlooked anything!

Cheers,
Stewart


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Grandma Bear
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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I missed this one during the OWC.

Interesting that there were two WWII stories in this OWC. I liked this one a lot and the other one as well.

This one was obviously not a short, but a very intriguing first ten pages of something much longer.

My only confusion with this was Helene and Anna. Are they related? And at first, I wasn't sure about Oskar spitting on Heiss shoe. Seems a bit too cocky when you're standing in front of a bunch of military vehicles and soldiers. And I thought it was odd that the butcher was wearing his apron at night...

Not much else to add that hasn't been mentioned earlier.

Anyway, great set-up for a feature.  


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MacDuff
Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 10:52am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I missed this one during the OWC.

Interesting that there were two WWII stories in this OWC. I liked this one a lot and the other one as well.

This one was obviously not a short, but a very intriguing first ten pages of something much longer.

My only confusion with this was Helene and Anna. Are they related? And at first, I wasn't sure about Oskar spitting on Heiss shoe. Seems a bit too cocky when you're standing in front of a bunch of military vehicles and soldiers. And I thought it was odd that the butcher was wearing his apron at night...

Not much else to add that hasn't been mentioned earlier.

Anyway, great set-up for a feature.  


Thanks for the read, Pia.

The connection between Helene and Anna is revealed in the next set of pages. Thanks for the heads up on the apron description, I think I'll remove it. Just wanted to show that people were rounded up quickly... but I don't think it's needed.

Yes, there has been some discussion on whether or no Oscar should spit at the shoes of Heiss... I'm going to keep it in there for the moment.

Thanks again.

The rewrite is in progress and the rest of the story/script is taking shape.

Stewart


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