I've created a new section called Site Redesign. I want to use this to capture ideas from you folks as well as layout my ideas.  CJ and ScriptRevolution has very much spurred me to buckle down and make some long overdue changes to the site.  Most notably, I've gotten a lot of submissions from folks who just want exposure and don't want criticism or reviews.  I need a way to respect that wish.  I also want to make it easier for Filmmakers to find good scripts to produce which means coming up with a way to showcase good work, yet still help new and developing screenwriters as well as do more to protect the writer.

I also want to be transparent about it.  I hope that folks like CJ, Janet and other writers trying to get work out or help get work out and get some ideas, too.

This is very much a work in progress.

Going forward, I'm going to lay out each section of the site from the perspective of the writer and filmmaker (by filmmaker - director/producer be he/she student, indie or big budget).

I've begun with the Script Page View.

Thanks

- Don

I like the fact that you're trying to make the site better and more appealing to get our works produced.  That's why I like you and this site.  I'll contribute what I can, but I'm still a rookie (even though I'm old).

Quoted from Jeremiah Johnson I like the fact that you're trying to make the site better and more appealing to get our works produced.  That's why I like you and this site.  I'll contribute what I can, but I'm still a rookie (even though I'm old).

Jeff,

There haven't been a lot of major improvements on the site for quite some time.  It is sorely in need of an upgrade particularly with the increase in visibility it has gotten.  Some automation is needed.  

Quoted from CJ Walley Well you are more than welcome to borrow as much or as little from Script Revolution, Don. Plus, if there's any way I can help on a technical level, I'm more than happy to try.

CJ,

Thanks. Seeing what you've done with SR has spurred me into action.  I'm reaching out to filmmakers to see they are looking for as well as trying to put more control into the hads of the writers with regard to putting up, revising and taking down scripts.  At this point, I'm not sure if I want to try to do this myself or looking outside to have it built. I've already downloaded and installed Drupal to play around with as a possibility as I like the direction you've taken with SR. And, I may reach out to you for technical support.  I appreciate the offer.

- Don

Hi Don,

Leaving aside all issues of Feasiblity some things I would like to see:

1. More Scripts. Particularly Feature Scripts.

A)Further to what you say about a section that allows people to merely showcase their scripts without receiving feedback, in a ideal world you'd take the best of other sites like Inktip and have a private section where only verified people can access it and scripts are available only by request allowing writers to post their work with minimised fear of it being stolen.

If it was verified (proof of ID, IMDB credits or something) and then there was a paper trail of people accessing the scripts, it would make it more secure and allow people to post their better, more commercial scripts without worrying too much that people will steal them.

This part could be monetised, like Inktip.  Indeed, why not just put them out of business?

B) Again in an ideal world, I'd like to see this site hosting the best scripts from the festival/competition circuit.

Contact the different screenwriting festivals/competitions and offer their entrants the chance to showcase their work here, either for free on the board, or in the verified section above.

Maybe there's some scope for creating a kind of synergy, where we attract more filmmaking talent to see those scripts whilst we offer feedback in return.

Basically, in an ideal world, to attract all the best unproduced scripts onto the site.

2. It would be good if the shorts section was split into categories, so that you can peruse short Horror, short thrillers, drama etc

Rick

The front page could also be a bit more informative about the discussion board and the fact that this is the best place to learn how to write scripts and the best place to showcase your scripts.

I think it should hit you in the face that there is a thriving community on here dedicated to producing scripts/films.

Hey Don!

This is only my first "riff" in this thread - and I have no doubt that many of my comments will mirror things that've already been said.  But my first major thought:

Best to redesign the SS layout as absolutely user friendly as possible.  IE: taking into account the ADD that all of us on the net now have.  If a tab/link isn't obvious immediately, so many people just... drift away.

Re: STS - I get the feeling there are lots of people who confuse the Review showcase with the discussion boards - especially when it comes to submissions.  And Rick's right... I don't think many newbies realize what a rich resource is available WITH the discussion boards.

Heck, if there's anyway that potential scoring could be added to scripts, that's good, too.  I don't doubt that some people would "game the system" there, and have all their pals "vote up" their scripts - but as long as it's pointed out the votes are subjective, it still might work.

And I love your idea of adding certain optional searchables to all scripts on the site.  Keywords, genre, page count, budget, current "score", etc.  In other words, making it very easy for directors/producers to find what they're looking for, without slogging through a million scripts!  ) Heck, what about even adding these possible filters: produced/unproduced writer, placed in contest X up to what point?  (QF, SF, F, etc...)

That's my first five cents.  I'm sure there'll be more.

But user and idiot (including me under that term) friendly?  Oh yeah!

I don't like the idea of scoring scripts personally...IMO that's what destroyed Zoetrope. It leads to a toxic atmosphere.

It seems like a good idea, but what happened is that anyone who gave any kind of realistic score was attacked, so in the end everyone was forced to give 8/10 a least and all realistic feedback evaporated.

In the end it became a place just for cliques, and pretty much died.

Quoted from wonkavite ... Heck, if there's anyway that potential scoring could be added to scripts, that's good, too.  I don't doubt that some people would "game the system" there, and have all their pals "vote up" their scripts - but as long as it's pointed out the votes are subjective, it still might work.  ...

I agree with all you said Janet, bar any scoring system. The scores will stand out regardless of adding a 'subjective' disclaimer.

That would change the dynamic of everything SS stands for imh, and some very good scripts could be bypassed in favour of a popularity of person vote. Jmh, of course.

** Just noticed Rick's comment. Ditto.

Seems in terms of wanting or not wanting reviews, it would be easy enough for a submitter to click on button when submitting:

- NOT SEEKING COMMENTS OR REVIEWS
- SEEKING COMMENTS AND REVIEWS

Whichever one they click should show up right under their logline.

Would also love to see the "PORTAL" tab renamed to "RECENT POSTS" or RECENT THREADS".
I took me a year to figure out what Portal was for.

Would also like an easier way to link my scripts on this site. I ran out of space on my signature block to list all the scripts I have submitted here so  eventually built my own site and just use the single HTTP address. Somehow, it would be nice if a SS user clicked on my User Name they would be able to see a list of my scripts sorted by category - that would be fab.

As always, Don - thanks for all the hard work and dedication.

I am also not a fan of script scoring.

That being said, there are fun things you could do. I see the "short script of the day, featured script of the month, etc in the center of the page but never really had a clue is to how one gets there. You could do something with that where members anonymously voted - similar to OWC.

e.g.,

Short Script of the Month

Feature Script of the Month.

Maybe not - just musing now.

Quoted from eldave1 Would also love to see the "PORTAL" tab renamed to "RECENT POSTS" or RECENT THREADS".

There already is a recent posts button. It's near the bottom if you click the home button. http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?v-search/p-topten/

I agree on the portal name though, but it would have to be short enough to fit on a button.  

Took me five minutes to find the Home Button

When I clicked it I landed on the main page:

http://www.simplyscripts.com/

Scrolled to the bottom - still didn't find it. I trust it's there - but at this point, far too complex to get to recent threads.

Pretty sure it can fit on the button. Member Center does - Recent Posts should.

The Home button two buttons to the right from the portal. Not the one at the top. If you click it, you will get here.  http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?  Then you'll find the recent posts button near the bottom. I have it bookmarked so I can easily see all posts and don't have to go thread by thread.

Tricky to find though, I agree.  

Okay - there are two "home" buttons that take you to different homes.

That could be cleaned up

Finally did see the recent posts tab at the bottom  - that is a long road to hoe

Thanks for the info

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films I don't like the idea of scoring scripts personally...IMO that's what destroyed Zoetrope. It leads to a toxic atmosphere. It seems like a good idea, but what happened is that anyone who gave any kind of realistic score was attacked, so in the end everyone was forced to give 8/10 a least and all realistic feedback evaporated. In the end it became a place just for cliques, and pretty much died.

Last time I visited Zoetrope it seemed to mainly be a shop front for Coppola's wine business. From The Godfather to this. Like visiting a Scorsese website and finding he's hawking shoes.

Scoring isn't a great idea - apart from anything else, all opinions are subjective - one person might love a script, another hate it. You only have to see some of the feedback on some scripts here - it can vary wildly.

There's also the question of people not just marking their mates up, but marking those they don't like down, regardless of the quality of the script.

I left the scoring sites and came here because there isn't any scoring!  On another site, one guy trashed a couple of my scripts because he had "similar" ones.  So, his scores knocked my total score down, then people assumed my scrips sucked because of the low scores.  It doesn't work, in my opinion, no matter how hard you try to make it so.

I'm just glad that Don is even asking for our input because it's his site after all.

Quoted from eldave1 Okay - there are two "home" buttons that take you to different homes. That could be cleaned up Finally did see the recent posts tab at the bottom  - that is a long road to hoe Thanks for the info

I like the two Home buttons, they're both very different, one for the actual site, and one for the Discussion board. And I've always been in the habit of using Recent Posts instead of the Portal. Old habits I suppose...

Good to see a lot oppose a scoring system. No offence, JC.  

I met a famous director once who says all scripts should be rated. I think his name was Martin Score-says-he.

Site worked fine for me.

I think any site re-design has to start with an understanding of who is the intended user/visitor and what they are trying to achieve on the site.

We, the regs, are all used to the site now and have worked our way around it BUT (I assume) we are not the only visitors that the site gets and not necessarily the ones that Don want to encourage (for our benefit).

I now when I first arrived I had no clue what was where, I didn't spot there was discussion board at all for two weeks, had no idea what Portal did, someone else had to tell me about STS etc... now they all feel second nature.

My day job is as a Demand Conversion Manager, so I spend my working day looking at web pages and online application forms to try and make sure that real customers can get through them and achieve what they need.

Don - I will try and carve out some time and drop you some thoughts on email.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood I now when I first arrived I had no clue what was where, I didn't spot there was discussion board at all for two weeks, had no idea what Portal did, someone else had to tell me about STS etc... now they all feel second nature.

Funnily enough, back in 2009 it was because I found the Discussion Boards that I joined. I'd not written anything at all for seven years at that point, and thought reading and commenting on other scripts, as well as entering OWCs, would help break the drought. Which it did eventually.

The reasons for coming back now are much the same.

Thank you all so much for the valuable input.  Much appreciated.  

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films Hi Don, Leaving aside all issues of Feasiblity...

Rick, this is exactly how I wanted folks to respond.  What you want, not how to do it.  

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films 1. More Scripts. Particularly Feature Scripts. A)Further to what you say about a section that allows people to merely showcase their scripts without receiving feedback, in a ideal world you'd take the best of other sites like Inktip and have a private section where only verified people can access it and scripts are available only by request allowing writers to post their work with minimised fear of it being stolen. If it was verified (proof of ID, IMDB credits or something) and then there was a paper trail of people accessing the scripts, it would make it more secure and allow people to post their better, more commercial scripts without worrying too much that people will steal them. This part could be monetised, like Inktip.  Indeed, why not just put them out of business?

I go back and forth on this in my head.  I want to balace protection with removing barriers.  One thought I had was allowing two viewing options - a public option, open to all views regardless of registration status - and a 'private' option wherein one must be logged into the site to view works.  The writer could choice when submitting to only allow this work to be seen by registered users.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films B) Again in an ideal world, I'd like to see this site hosting the best scripts from the festival/competition circuit. Contact the different screenwriting festivals/competitions and offer their entrants the chance to showcase their work here, either for free on the board, or in the verified section above. Maybe there's some scope for creating a kind of synergy, where we attract more filmmaking talent to see those scripts whilst we offer feedback in return. Basically, in an ideal world, to attract all the best unproduced scripts onto the site.

I would like to add a box to put into "awards script has received" and one could search with "received award" as a criterea.  

However, showing only 'good' scripts is a little tougher.  Many writers claim his/her work is final polished when it clearly isn't.  For a script to be even considered for production consideration it will have to be properly formatted (not 'close enough' as I now allow) and free of typos and grammatical errors.  Beyond that, it will be tough to make sure the work is 'good'.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films 2. It would be good if the shorts section was split into categories, so that you can peruse short Horror, short thrillers, drama etc

Yes, this will be done.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films The front page could also be a bit more informative about the discussion board and the fact that this is the best place to learn how to write scripts and the best place to showcase your scripts. I think it should hit you in the face that there is a thriving community on here dedicated to producing scripts/films.

You are right.  I need to make more clear what the site is about.  

Quoted from wonkavite Hey Don! This is only my first "riff" in this thread - and I have no doubt that many of my comments will mirror things that've already been said.  But my first major thought: Best to redesign the SS layout as absolutely user friendly as possible.  IE: taking into account the ADD that all of us on the net now have.  If a tab/link isn't obvious immediately, so many people just... drift away.

Rick mentioned this, too.  The 'mission' statement needs to be clear.  Where to go also needs to be clear.

Quoted from wonkavite Re: STS - I get the feeling there are lots of people who confuse the Review showcase with the discussion boards - especially when it comes to submissions.  And Rick's right... I don't think many newbies realize what a rich resource is available WITH the discussion boards. Heck, if there's anyway that potential scoring could be added to scripts, that's good, too.  I don't doubt that some people would "game the system" there, and have all their pals "vote up" their scripts - but as long as it's pointed out the votes are subjective, it still might work.

If a script has been reviewed, I certainly want to include that fact on the script page and perhaps a link to the review.  Perhaps even integrating the review process into the submission.  I still want to keep STS separate so that if in the future you want to more establish your site, I am not a barrier to that.  


I am not sure how I feel about voting.  As metioned, it can be gamed.  A review, however, is like a million votes.  

Quoted from wonkavite And I love your idea of adding certain optional searchables to all scripts on the site.  Keywords, genre, page count, budget, current "score", etc.  In other words, making it very easy for directors/producers to find what they're looking for, without slogging through a million scripts!  ) Heck, what about even adding these possible filters: produced/unproduced writer, placed in contest X up to what point?  (QF, SF, F, etc...) That's my first five cents.  I'm sure there'll be more. But user and idiot (including me under that term) friendly?  Oh yeah!

Precicsely why I'm doing this.  Biggest complaint from filmmakers is that it is nearly impossible to find a script on the site.  

Quoted from eldave1 Seems in terms of wanting or not wanting reviews, it would be easy enough for a submitter to click on button when submitting: - NOT SEEKING COMMENTS OR REVIEWS - SEEKING COMMENTS AND REVIEWS Whichever one they click should show up right under their logline.

Agreed.

Quoted from eldave1 Would also love to see the "PORTAL" tab renamed to "RECENT POSTS" or RECENT THREADS". I took me a year to figure out what Portal was for.

This might happen sooner rather than later.

Quoted from eldave1 Would also like an easier way to link my scripts on this site. I ran out of space on my signature block to list all the scripts I have submitted here so  eventually built my own site and just use the single HTTP address. Somehow, it would be nice if a SS user clicked on my User Name they would be able to see a list of my scripts sorted by category - that would be fab.

writer's page is next on the design board.

Quoted from AnthonyCawood I think any site re-design has to start with an understanding of who is the intended user/visitor and what they are trying to achieve on the site. We, the regs, are all used to the site now and have worked our way around it BUT (I assume) we are not the only visitors that the site gets and not necessarily the ones that Don want to encourage (for our benefit). I now when I first arrived I had no clue what was where, I didn't spot there was discussion board at all for two weeks, had no idea what Portal did, someone else had to tell me about STS etc... now they all feel second nature. My day job is as a Demand Conversion Manager, so I spend my working day looking at web pages and online application forms to try and make sure that real customers can get through them and achieve what they need. Don - I will try and carve out some time and drop you some thoughts on email.

Anthony, you are right. I am trying to get a better understanding of what film makers want as well as writers.  And make it easier to navigate.  



Everyone,  thank you for the input!

- Don

New buttons!!!!!

Yeah, it's funny at first I thought, where's the Portal button!   And that's from someone who didn't use it that much.   And with Don saying 'don't freak out'.  

Then I noticed Recent Threads, which acts as the Portal + stats etc., and Recent Posts, which is the same as it always was.

Blog Home, and Home (Discussion Board), to differentiate between the previous two Home buttons.

Works for me!

I like the change

I'm cool with whatever. To be honest, the site works for me as is. I don't think that putting a price on the script is such a bad idea though, especially if it can be noted that for the right producer the fee can be waived. I'd far rather put a couple of hundred into the production than take it out. It's not about the money for me, but about the quality of the final production. Putting a price on the script merely deters the bad producers, IMO.

It's nice getting email after email, but then disappointing when you Google them and realise that you're going to have to let them down.

Glad to hear about the changes, especially easier navigation for visitors. You can count me among those who don't like the idea of scoring. It might attract some writers, but it will certainly discourage others. Adding scoring also raises all kinds of questions about the criteria. If you do add it, I hope you at least allow a writer to turn that function off.