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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    October, 2011 One Week Challange  ›  The October 2011 Scripts are up!
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  Author    The October 2011 Scripts are up!  (currently 31145 views)
Don
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 9:31am Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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There were 38 scripts submitted.  The names are pseudonyms and assigned randomly irrespective of gender.  

Genre: Gothic Horror  -- this is a link about Gothic Horror
Theme: Ghosts are not bad, just misunderstood

Condemned Sanctuary by Malcom Bowman (scoob) - Short, Gothic Horror - A mother's candlelight vigil on the fifth anniversary of her son's death is interrupted by an unexpected guest. 11 pages, 5 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

My Love by Harley Wolfe Jr. (Hugh Hoyland) - Short, Gothic Horror -  A grief stricken lover makes a deal with the devil in hopes of being reunited with his lost love. 9 pages, 4 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

Traceless by Brynmor Leyshon (bleyshon) - Short, Gothic Horror - Detective Croft is on the hunt for a serial killer... who doesn't leave a trace. 6 pages, 5 characters, Hard R rating. - pdf, format

Revenant Stand by Ray (ray w) - Short, Gothic Horror - Two men are caught up in a haunting life-ending drama within an ages old forest clearing. 12 pages, 4 major and a dozen minor characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

Abracadabra by Darren J Seeley (DarrenJamesSeeley) - Short, Gothic Horror - An eccentric 19th century magician hired to expose a paranormal fraud gets more than he expected. 12 pages, 5 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

No Balls by Mohammad Nawaz (nawazm11) - Short, Gothic Horror - Nick is accused of being a "chicken" and goes to desperate measures to prove he is not. 8 pages, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

All That Remains by Breanne Mattson - Short, Gothic Horror -  A woman hires a team of ghost hunters to contact her sister’s spirit and solve her murder. 12 pages, 5 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

The Open Casket by Darren Tomalin (darrenjames) - Short, Gothic Horror - Artist, Charles Drayton, has been commissioned to paint the viscount Corwin Redwinter's portrait at his remote castle in the mountains. Redwinter's intentions towards Drayton's fiancee, Melinda Hartwell, may be less than honorable and the stuff of nightmares. 11 pages, 5 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

Satanas by Jordan Wiebe (theboywhocouldfly) - Short, Gothic Horror - On a dark and stormy night, the Devil will come out to play, or at least try to. 12 pages, Hard R Rating - pdf, format

Sweep by Catherine Hall (cmhall) - Short, Gothic Horror - What wreckage is formed in the crossed paths of human lives... how can we ever know? 12 pages, 6 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

The Last Stop by Rene Claveau (renec) - Short, Gothic Horror - When William gets separated from his new bride at a traveling circus, he finds all is not as it seems while trying to find her. 12 pages, 5 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

The Haunted Tale of James O'Neil by Michel J. Duthin (michel) - Short, Gothic Horror - How open would you be to fulfilling a request by a stranger with no idea what you will encounter and might risk?  An 18 century military officer, James O'Neil, explores this offer as he unravels an unearthly tale to help someone he never met. Fate sometimes works in mysterious ways.   8 pages, 4 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

Falling Angels by Bill Sarre (reef dreamer) - Short, Gothic Horror - A young girl has to cope with the death of her family during a dark night. War brings out the best and the worst. 10 pages, 4 characters, unrated (thus far) - pdf, format

Payer Fedris - A Gothic Dream Tax by Sandra El. Watson (sandra elstree) - Short, Gothic Horror - When a poor boy replaces his dreams with forbidden knowledge, he dreams the most expensive dream of all. 12 pages, 17 characters, Hard R Rating - pdf, format

Allured by T. Henrik Anttonen (henrik) - Short, Gothic Horror -  An eerie castle, dribbling candles, a lost officer and a bunch of ghosts. You know, the usual stuff. 7 pages, 7 characters, G rating - pdf, format

Castle Trouble by Fred Kracke - Short, Gothic Horror - The trouble stops when you die.  8 pages, 4 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

Veil of Blood by Ryan Lee (ryan 1) - Short, Gothic Horror - A young woman ventures to her uncle's crumbling plantation in 1874 Louisiana. 12 pages, 6 characters, unrated thus far - pdf, format

Reaparations by Will Ball (albinopenguin) - Short, Gothic Horror -  Six months after the Civil War's conclusion, Colonel Henry Gibbs gets a visitor he never expected. 10 pages, 5 characters, Hard R Rating - pdf, format

Our Lady of Eternal Suffering by Rick Kinsella (scartissuefilms) - Short, Gothic Horror - When an amateur Theologian goes in search of an ancient archaelogical site, little does he know he will stumbling onto a dangerous secret that spans Space and Time… 12 pages, unrated thus far - pdf, format

Forever Thine by Sydney Cuthbert - Short, Gothic Horror - A sickly young woman is haunted by a ghost in an old victorian mansion. What does the grim spectre portend for her and her husband? 6 pages, 4 characters, unrated - pdf, format

A Price To Pay by John Carlon (JCShadow) - Short, Gothic Horror - A woman struggles to overcome the loss of her fiance while being tormented by a homicidal ghost. 11 pages, 3 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

Mischief At Morley House by Pete B. Lane (pete) - Short, Gothic Horror - A secret lurks ‘bout Morley House. A secret that won’t be ignored. But she don’t mean no harm - if you don’t do no harm.  12 pages, 9 characters, Hard R Rating - pdf, format

House Proud by Richard Buckley (cathead) - Short, Gothic Horror - Moving in can be scary… 10 pages, 6 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

Together Again… Someday by Phil Clarke Jr. (dogglebe) - Short, Gothic Horror - You can't mourn the dead when you're one of them. 6 pages, 3 characters, PG Rating - pdf, format

Open House With An Empty Heart by Baltis Sinclair Schuller - Short, Gothic Horror - When you buy a house you buy the stories within its walls... Good or Bad. 12 pages, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

The Truth by Zane Steves (zanej) - Short, Gothic Horror - A young girl moves to a new town. A house haunted by it's past brings up old news that was buried. 10 pages, 5 characters, PG-13 rating - pdf, format

The Woods by Matthew Layden (TheUsualSuspect) - Short, Gothic Horror - Emily goes to visit her mother in the countryside. While there she sees a young boy, who terrorizes her to go into the woods. 11 pages, 3 characters, PG rating - pdf, format

The Stone Within by Jordan Littleton (nomad) - Short, Gothic Horror - [no logline] 10 pages, 4 pages, no rating - pdf, format

The Madness of Time by Steve McDonell (stevie) - Short, Gothic Horror - While fulfulling his late father's wishes, a man must face the nightmare of his father's past. 9 pages, 5 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format

The Lonley Tenant by James Williams (jwent668
- Short, Gothic Horror - A woman rents the first renovated apartment in an old building, but she soon finds she's not the only one there. 12 pages, 4 characters, Hard R Rating - pdf, format 8)

Innocence Condemned by Dena Mckinnon - Short, Gothic Horror - During the dark times of Christianity, a young woman finds herself accused of witch craft, haunted by a disfigured spirit, and destined for persecution. During her trials and torment, she discovers that death may not be the only punishment that lies ahead. 10 pages, 9 characters, Hard R Rating - pdf, format 8)

A Dance in the Dark by Greg Baldwin (greg) - Short, Gothic Horror - A nifty new smart phone app allows a feuding couple to communicate with the dead.   12 pages, 5 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format 8)

Asylum by Janet Clarke (wonkavite) - Short, Gothic Horror - Insane Asylums make for strange bedfellows…  7 pages,  9 characters, PG-13 rating - pdf, format 8)

The Executioner by Kevin Lenihan (leitskev) - Short, Gothic Horror - A young woman on the run from something terrible, guided by a friendly spirit, learns the nature of her dark heritage. 12 pages, 7 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format 8)

Annabel by Shawn Davis (ledbetter) - Short, Gothic Horror - Annabel was a good wife, when she was around. 6 pages, 6 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format 8)

Betrayal by Quitterie Hervouet (Quiou) - Short, Gothic Horror - Louis is coming back home after 10 years in prison, but everything has changed from Marie, to his father, to his brother Jean and to his home. 12 pages - pdf, format 8)

Mr. Daniels by Alexander Toplake (Laika) - Short, Gothic Horror - An old hitman gets a visit from from his past. 7 pages, 2 characters, PG-13 Rating - pdf, format 8)



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Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
Don  -  November 1st, 2011, 1:49pm
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DarrenJamesSeeley
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what'ziz?  One batch fits all?

Good turnout!


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 10:35am Report to Moderator
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Excellent. Wife's out for the night and I am all alone, well except for two children. A good niight of spooky reading ahead.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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jwent6688
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 10:42am Report to Moderator
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Nice experiment. Drop them all in a matter of hours. Be fun to see how this plays out compared to other OWCs. I've always agreed that the last couple of batches got the least amount of reads. Maybe this evens out the playing field.

James


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darrentomalin
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cool - thats my saturday night sorted.... so lonely *sniff*  


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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bert
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I will have limited time this week -- and while I (personally) think it is cool of Don to drop them all at once (alot of work, you know) -- 38 active threads is alot to keep track of.

Please drop me (or a moderator of your choosing) a quick note if you see one of these threads getting out of hand.

A few squabbles usually arise during the OWC, and it will be particularly hard to police them all during this one.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Electric Dreamer
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I'll squeeze these in and machine gun some posts.

I'm curious as to how the order of the scripts on this thread was determined.
If it's by order of submission, charting the overall quality could be interesting.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Pete B. Lane
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I won't say how early or late in the week that I submitted, but I can say with confidence that the order of the scripts here is not the order in which they were submitted - or least it's very unlikely.

Seeing them all together like this makes me regret that I didn't spend more time on my logline

~Pete
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Don
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 2:29pm Report to Moderator
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Folks,

I'm glad the idea of all of them at once is well received.  This was Jeff's idea and it was a good one.

In order to be a little more 'fair' I randomized the order on each of the locations the scripts appear:

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-OCT11/m-1318689095

http://www.simplyscripts.com/unpro_short_exercise_11_10.html

http://www.simplyscripts.com/2011/10/15/the-october-2011-one-week-challenge-scripts-are-now-live/

Don


Visit SimplyScripts.com for what is new on the site.

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Scar Tissue Films
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Of The Ancients


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Theme: Ghosts are not bad, just misunderstood.

Is the theme.

It doesn't say the ghost ITSELF has to be misunderstood.

A subtle, but very important, difference....and a mistake I'm already seeing being spread.

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leitskev
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Rick, I don't understand what you mean. You can take the "not bad" out of that sentence, and that leaves "Ghosts are...just misunderstood" So it seems clear to me the ghost "itself" is misunderstood. Sorry, I don't follow you.
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Scar Tissue Films
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Theme: Ghosts are not bad, just misunderstood.

Ghost:


ghost   /goʊst/  Show Spelled[gohst]  Show IPA
noun
1. the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons.
2. a mere shadow or semblance; a trace: He's a ghost of his former self.
3. a remote possibility: He hasn't a ghost of a chance.
4. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a spiritual being.
5. the principle of life; soul; spirit.
EXPAND6. Informal . ghost writer. 7. a secondary image, especially one appearing on a television screen as a white shadow, caused by poor or double reception or by a defect in the receiver. 8. Also called ghost image. Photography . a faint secondary or out-of-focus image in a photographic print or negative resulting from reflections within the camera lens. 9. an oral word game in which each player in rotation adds a letter to those supplied by preceding players, the object being to avoid ending a word. 10. Optics . a series of false spectral lines produced by a diffraction grating with unevenly spaced lines. 11. Metalworking . a streak appearing on a freshly machined piece of steel containing impurities. 12. a red blood cell having no hemoglobin. 13. a fictitious employee, business, etc., fabricated especially for the purpose of manipulating funds or avoiding taxes: Investigation showed a payroll full of ghosts. COLLAPSE
verb (used with object)
14. to ghostwrite (a book, speech, etc.).
15. to haunt.
16. Engraving . to lighten the background of (a photograph) before engraving.


mis�un�der�stood   /ˌmɪsʌndərˈstʊd/  Show Spelled[mis-uhn-der-stood]  Show IPA
adjective
1. improperly understood or interpreted.
2. unappreciated.




Don't assume you know what a "Ghost" is.....

But leaving that aside, it's more the case that "ghosts" is a plural and general term. It doesn't mean that the specific "ghost" in a specific story has to be misunderstood.  
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Electric Dreamer
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I took the theme to be more of a blanket statement than a script centric one.

Yes, a character can misunderstand a ghost's intentions, that fits, IMO.
Which means a ghost must be a character in the script.
And, what few I have read, subscribed to this interpretation.

However, I looked at the theme and initially had a more circumspect view.
The phenomena of ghosts is not bad, but can be misunderstood.
How people use the supernatural for their own purposes, justify behavior.  
The ghosts of one's past being used as a crutch for shortcomings, etc.

So, I think you can have a story that fits the theme, without a single ghost in it.
A protag's obsession with ghost hunting consumes his life/family, etc.
He's using ghosts as an excuse for not being a husband/father, etc.
Or...A priest's fear/denial of the supernatural prevents personal growth.

That to me, is more interesting than characters misinterpreting ghostly activity.

Maybe I'm out to lunch on this point, but that's what I got out of the theme.

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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leitskev
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To be honest, if a story does not meet what my interpretation of what the instructions are, I don't really care, as long as the story itself is good. Some of these reads can sap you of all your strength and leave you an exhausted husk, just because it's so hard to understand them or get through them. I'm sure my script does the same.

There really is a huge difference between true pro scripts and amateur scripts, and one word suffices: readability. Pro scripts are a breeze. Our scripts can be rather tough to get through. Bert and Ryan usually write stuff that's a breeze to read, most of the rest of us struggle with that, even when we come up with decent work. The goal should be to write pages that read really quickly. And flooding things with details that are not essential is a mistake, no matter how well written. We're not watching a movie. We shouldn't have to try to visualize too many things. It's a distraction.
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dogglebe
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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Is a one week challange any different from a one week challenge?


Phil (busting balls since 1963)
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 5:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Electric Dreamer
I took the theme to be more of a blanket statement than a script centric one.

Yes, a character can misunderstand a ghost's intentions, that fits, IMO.
Which means a ghost must be a character in the script.
And, what few I have read, subscribed to this interpretation.

However, I looked at the theme and initially had a more circumspect view.
The phenomena of ghosts is not bad, but can be misunderstood.
How people use the supernatural for their own purposes, justify behavior.  
The ghosts of one's past being used as a crutch for shortcomings, etc.

So, I think you can have a story that fits the theme, without a single ghost in it.
A protag's obsession with ghost hunting consumes his life/family, etc.
He's using ghosts as an excuse for not being a husband/father, etc.
Or...A priest's fear/denial of the supernatural prevents personal growth.

That to me, is more interesting than characters misinterpreting ghostly activity.

Maybe I'm out to lunch on this point, but that's what I got out of the theme.

Regards,
E.D.


Agreed.

Most people take the initial literal interpretation of a theme...but there's always other ones.
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jwent6688
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Quoted from bert
38 active threads is alot to keep track of.


Earn your pay byotch.  . Pretty calm waters out there so far, boss. Jeff is trying to boot his sister's kids off the computer so he can get in and leave his colorful comments. Til then, sleep soundly.


James



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DarrenJamesSeeley
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Quoted from leitskev
We're not watching a movie. We shouldn't have to try to visualize too many things. It's a distraction.


That's a matter of interpetation. While we don't have to play set designer, we should be as visual as we can. If I read a script and start seeing the "movie" I don't see a distraction. I  good work .


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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leitskev
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 6:27pm Report to Moderator
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Challange is much more serious! That's like a duel type challenge. That's like challenge with attitude!
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leitskev
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 6:42pm Report to Moderator
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What I mean, Darren, is this: if you watch a film of a man walking into a living room, it takes little work for your mind to perceive what's in the room. In one glance you know there's a TV, a couch, a coffee table, a lamp. But in script form, you have to read and visualize each one of those things. It's more work.

Now, there's no way to avoid some of that. We're painting pictures with words after all. My point is to do no more than necessary to convey the important elements of the story. If you have to read a whole page of described objects it takes too long to get through it. It's too much work for your brain. Certainly for my more limited brain.

There's no way to describe where you should draw the line on how much information to include. But if you think that scripts are supposed to be blueprints, chances are you will include too much descriptive information.

The OWC is probably comparative to what producers reading scripts go through. People reading these scripts are reading several a day, each with its own characters and settings. Producers and agents are in a similar situation, reading numerous scripts. The goal is not a blueprint. The ultimate goal is to get them to see something interesting in your story, something they think will work in film. And the immediate goal is this simple: TTP. Turn the page. Every time the reader turns to the next page of your script, it's an important victory. The quicker you can make the read, the more likely the reader will keep turning. And every time the reader has to stop to reread something, or even worse, go back in the script, your story stands on the precipice of death.

Also, I would consider it a better goal not to get the reader to see the movie, but to see the story, if that makes any sense. Though, yes, you want to create enough powerful images that a producer reading this can imagine it's potential in film format.
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mcornetto
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 6:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev

There's no way to describe where you should draw the line on how much information to include. But if you think that scripts are supposed to be blueprints, chances are you will include too much descriptive information.


Yes there is...you should draw the line at what isn't important to the story.  To bring up an example from the last OWC - you don't need to tell us the trash bin is overflowing if it's of no value to the story.   Save your words for what's important.  Ignore the rest.
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leitskev
Posted: October 15th, 2011, 7:09pm Report to Moderator
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Yes, Mike, and I said pretty much that in a recent review. But there is room for some interpretation. For example, this OWC calls for Gothic, so some description is spent on establishing the appropriate Gothic setting and tone. Also, it's not a bad idea to establish some powerful visuals that appeal to producers. So what's important may be open to some interpretation.

But basically we agree, and you are seconding my point, so thank you. The thing is to have what's important, and no more.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 1:51am Report to Moderator
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I'm half way through the OWC scripts.
The lion's share of the stories set up ghost characters with a twist.
It's not much of a twist after reading 19 of these.
There's only so many ways you can set that up with a week to work.
I thought many folks would have a less literal interpretation of the theme.
Something a little more introspective with a peripheral supernatural element.
The literal interpretation of the theme leaves little room to surprise a reader.
However, the gothic elements have been fun to read, tasty visuals.

What are other folk's thoughts on how the theme has been utilized?

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Pii
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 3:21am Report to Moderator
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Well, with a theme as spelled out like this, one can hardly be surprised when similarities crop up. I have to say that I did find the September challenge to be more rewarding as a reader because it allowed for such wonderful variety of genre and theme.

Especially theme, because I find the most intriguing question about any unfolding story to be "What is it about?" And when that question, if not entirely then to a large degree, has already been answered.

I do hope you don't hold the repetition against the individual author, since they had no way of knowing how many people would enter and what their particular approach might be.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 7:52am Report to Moderator
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As I discussed with Kev through PM's.  My interpretation is that the theme "ghosts aren't always bad, just misunderstood" kind of means that because ghosts are assumed to be bad, when they're not, they will be misunderstood, if that makes sesnse.

People are scared of ghosts, just like they're scared of aliens.  Aliens aren't neccessarily bad, but the vast majority would say they're scared of them.

As for the quality of the entries?  Well, let's put it this way...of the 10 or so I've opened up, I've only completely read 1 script, gotten to page 8 on 1, page 5 on another, and less than 2 pages fro the rest.

I decided that since I didn't enter a script, what I read and how much I read, was completely up to me.  So, once the script either loses me, or I realize it's not well written, I'm out.  I'm trying to be nice in my feedback and will continue that way.

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Scar Tissue Films  -  October 16th, 2011, 8:21am
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leitskev
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 8:14am Report to Moderator
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The only thing confused me, Jeff, was that you thought this was any different interpretation than mine. It's pretty much the same if not exactly the same.

It seems to me the that since the idea behind the challenge is to write something new in a week, the idea is to give instructions that make it unlikely that someone already has a script lying around they can use. That means the definition has to be somewhat narrow. A side effect of that is that the scripts will end up being very similar to a degree. There's really no avoiding that.

Most stories, with instructions like the present ones, will indeed be ghosts with a twist. It's almost called for with parameters like that. To someone reading here, who knows the parameters and is therefore looking for the twist, things become predictable.

But there are things you can do. You can have a twist that involves something other than the ghost. You can have more than one ghost or supernatural element. It's a challenge, but you can still pull off surprises.

It's hard to surprise a writer anyway. We're all looking for the twist from the start of a story. And especially here where we know the ghost is misunderstood and not so bad in the end, we already have a hint what the twist will be. It is what it is.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 8:15am Report to Moderator
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So far to me the phrase of the OWC is... Over grown weeds.

Not sure how many times I have read about those naughty weeds.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Pii
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 8:20am Report to Moderator
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If that is you trying to be nice, I don't want to see you being mean. Quite frankly your short posts saying that you have given up and that what you've managed to read was unsatisfactory are discouraging, unhelpful, mean and damned unproductive in anything except inflating your post count.

As I've understood it, the point of the challenge is to teach, learn and to gain experience. Your posts do nothing but discourage upcoming writers from trying to receive the peer reviews and support they need  and alienate them from the community.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 8:32am Report to Moderator
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Thank you, Henrik.  Sorry you feel that way.

My post count doesn't mean shit, BTW.  Are my posts really shorter than everyone elses?  I don't think so.

By posting, I'm letting the writer know that I attempted to read their script, and if I "gave up", it will hopefully let them know that something or many things turned me off to the point where I stopped reading.

Not sure how that could be interpretted as mean.  That's not my intent at all.

I'm sorry I don't have the time I usually do to go into great detail on what's wrong and why, Heinrik...maybe you can do that wih all 38 of these for me?  That would be really sweet of you.

As for alienating new writers or new SS board members...again, not my intent at all, but IMO, unskilled or new writers should not be jumping in on a One Week Challenge, as the results will rarely if ever be anythign other than poor.  Plenty of opportunities to post scrpits on SS and ask for help all year long.

We all know that many of these new writers wil not read or provide feedback on any other entries.  Any feedback at all is a gift, and if you think sugarcoated false priase is the way to go..well, you go then, dude.
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Pii
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 9:06am Report to Moderator
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I can appreciate that your intentions aren't as mischievous as I might have suggested in my annoyance, but I hope that you can understand how you might be giving that appearance.

No, I don't pretend that I have the time for detailed critique of 38 scripts. I don't even pretend that I read or finish them all. But if I don't think I have anything constructive to say, I remain silent.  My review might be negative but I try to be balanced. I offer suggestions that might lead to improvement. I try to find at least something positive.

Now, since I'm very new back in here, I'd never suggest that you don't give that kind of excellent and constructive critique as well. I'm just saying that this time around your blunt condemnation based often on little more than a glance is honestly quite aggravating.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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c m hall
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 9:18am Report to Moderator
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Dear readers, let us follow the wisdom of our friend Dreamscale, and quit reading a script if we hate it.  The quality of mercy is not strained.  And like that.
When we are told, as I am told so often, "I couldn't get passed page 1 of your script", we (I) learn something and we (I) appreciate that.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 9:24am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Pii
Well, with a theme as spelled out like this, one can hardly be surprised when similarities crop up. I have to say that I did find the September challenge to be more rewarding as a reader because it allowed for such wonderful variety of genre and theme.

Especially theme, because I find the most intriguing question about any unfolding story to be "What is it about?" And when that question, if not entirely then to a large degree, has already been answered.

I do hope you don't hold the repetition against the individual author, since they had no way of knowing how many people would enter and what their particular approach might be.


Henrik,

I don't hold anything against anyone, I'm spoken for.
Kidding aside, this is only I think my sixth OWC I've been around for.
I"m still learning the ins and outs of how the parameters affect narrative.
Some choices influence the type of story more than others.
This is not me calling anyone out, just observations.
And a lesson worth learning, if you want a career in the industry.
People will ask for things that have a big impact on your story.
Even though what they're asking for may seem innocuous to them.
So, how you deal with that is a good skill to develop.

Regards,
E.D.


LATEST NEWS

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is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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DarrenJamesSeeley
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 9:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Electric Dreamer
I'm half way through the OWC scripts.
The lion's share of the stories set up ghost characters with a twist.
It's not much of a twist after reading 19 of these.
There's only so many ways you can set that up with a week to work.
I thought many folks would have a less literal interpretation of the theme.
Something a little more introspective with a peripheral supernatural element.
The literal interpretation of the theme leaves little room to surprise a reader.
However, the gothic elements have been fun to read, tasty visuals.

What are other folk's thoughts on how the theme has been utilized?

E.D.



Very difficult. But difficult to write them as well. I include myself in the bunch, because I outright hate my own work. I almost didn't enter it. In fact, if I didn't come up with one idea and a title change, I would have chucked it.

While there were personal issues that kept pulling me away from writing, there was an added disadvantage. That being the Movie Poet Month challenge. That Sept challenge was the Undead, where at least one character had to be a ghost, vamp, zombie or mummy. Roughly about the same number of entries (co-incidence?)

So after reading 30+ shorts, half of which used a ghost, and some of them were 'misunderstood' or non-violent...

It could be possible that if one reads enough ghost scripts, good and bad then partake/read in this OWC....tolerance levels are at a low scale.




"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
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DarrenJamesSeeley
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Any feedback at all is a gift, and if you think sugarcoated false priase is the way to go..well, you go then, dude.


I'm going to hold you to this, you know that, right  
jk


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
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bert
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 10:55am Report to Moderator
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I gotta say that I totally understand where Jeff is coming from and I totally understand where Henrik is coming from -- and I totally agree with both of them.

My only contribution to that debate is this:


Quoted from Dreamscale
Congrats on completing an entry for the October OWC!


It is reaching the point where this is becoming almost an insult -- or somewhat inane, at the very least.

If you (or anybody) are dropping notes on a single, tortuous, eyeball-bleeding page, then please drop this insincere postscript (or others like it) from your comments.

Unless you are being ironic or something and I missed it.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!

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leitskev
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 11:35am Report to Moderator
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I agree with Bert. A lot of people use that expression, and it has no positive or substantive value. Better to just leave it that you don't like the script.
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Hugh Hoyland
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Well I have a lot of reading to do, some of which will be done at work tonight.  I was able to get some in yesterday either way.

But alas night shift calls to me and my buddies next door are once again gearing up for whats sure to be another sleep (for me) depriving party!

But I will get to as many as I possibly can, all is my goal, it just may take a while.

So far I'm quite suprised by the reactions mine has gotten.

I was not confident in it at all going in.


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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 1:59pm Report to Moderator
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A couple of thoughts to share.

On the mass release of the scripts, I like this. It seems to create a feeding frenzy. One thought. I just wonder whether if released on a Friday night then reviewers would have a whole weekend to discuss.

Probably too much for Don if the deadline was thursday to Thursday?

Following my comment on the growing weeds that seems to crop up so often in the scripts, I wonder what other readers feel the humous theme is for them. Creaking doors? Distant whimpers?

I only entered this on the condition I had fun, so let's see what we can get out of this.

Cheers


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 2:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
A couple of thoughts to share.

On the mass release of the scripts, I like this. It seems to create a feeding frenzy. One thought. I just wonder whether if released on a Friday night then reviewers would have a whole weekend to discuss.

Probably too much for Don if the deadline was thursday to Thursday?

Following my comment on the growing weeds that seems to crop up so often in the scripts, I wonder what other readers feel the humous theme is for them. Creaking doors? Distant whimpers?

I only entered this on the condition I had fun, so let's see what we can get out of this.

Cheers


From my understanding, the Gothic genre takes the environment and it, itself, becomes a character in the script. If that's the case, then I declared one less character in my script than I should have, but that's just semantics.

What is "gothic". What was it? What is it? What will it become?

And on the theme? I think the theme doesn't need to be spoken out loud and I certainly don't think a person needs to be hit over the head with it. I like to see it handled effectively through a variety of means and not where someone necessarily need speak it.

And what of "misunderstanding"? What kinds of misunderstanding? I think I'd like to go back and take a look at these scripts from that perspective. I know my particular script really deals with misunderstanding, perhaps, the script itself will be the most highly misunderstood, but without my intention to do so. Does that make me a ghost?

I'm really glad you posted, Reef. I would like to suck all the life out of this also. (At the risky of sounding vampiric).  

Sandra



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Dreamscale
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 4:15pm Report to Moderator
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OK, Bert...no more congrats from me.

Just to be clear though, IMO, congrats are due for completing a script in a week, based on a genre and theme that is not chosen by the writer...whether or not it's a well written or conceived script.

Also to be clear, I don't personally think an OWC is the time to "learn".  Feedback on story and the like is expected, but I'm no longer goiing to be pointing out Screenwriting 101 mistakes.  If the writer doesn't realize or understand what they're doing wrong, it's not going to be me who spends his time correcting this stuff.

If there are too many mistkes early on, I'll simply bow out and say there are way too many mistakes.  If that hurts someone's feelings, I'm sorry, but everyone needs to know that no one wants to read a script riddled with mistakes and poor writing.
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Sandra,

On the issue of misunderstanding one of the questions I had was whether to provide the reader with an end conclusion, ie this script says xyz, or whether to float options and let them be debated in the reader's mind.

The danger with the last option, which I choose as it happens, is that the reader can then be annoyed and accuse the script of various sins, such as being vague, or confusing etc.

Subtle balance required, me thinks.

As to the humour emerging from this genre, i see lots of opportunities. Awards could be presented to scripts for;

Most candles used in a script.

Most effective use of ravens, or other animals

Best use of the locked door

Or finally,

Most numerous screams in a single script.

Oh the possibilities are endless.

All the best.




My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Scoob
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 11:05pm Report to Moderator
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I can see the annoyance when people add "Thanks for entering the OWC" comes in after they have just savaged your script apart, but at least they tried to leave on a happy note.
It does add a bit of salt into the wounds, and makes them appear above you, but I doubt that is the intention. Maybe they should just leave " You suck, give up, you will never be on my level."

I can see both sides of the debate in reading and leaving quick. I think, in defence of Dreamscale, Jeff, he acts as a producer would. To be honest, not a lot of the scripts I've read in this OWC would fly off a desk and into production.
I've only read about 10-11 so a long way to go, but Jeff does do a good job in just speaking plain honest truth. He won't read beyond page one because it sucks, he says so. I don't have a problem with that at all. It's truthful and honest and if we're all trying to make something hit the screens, the harsher and more detailed the criticism, the better.  
You can only learn from criticism, you can't learn much from being praised!



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mcornetto
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 11:17pm Report to Moderator
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It's perfectly fine to not read a script and state your reasons why as a criticism.  There were endless debates about whether that was helpful or not to the author and we pretty much ended up agreeing that it is.

The problem is that sometimes that type of criticism is played for laughs, tries to outwit itself or worse yet it might even bring the author into the mix for a bit of a punch up.  That's when things go over the line and people get hurt.

So sure it's ok to bag a script and only read a page or two or even just a log line.  Just make sure you keep the criticism about the script and don't try to make too much of a joke out it because I can guarantee you that author isn't laughing.   And having other people laugh at the author's expense is uncool.

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Scoob
Posted: October 16th, 2011, 11:56pm Report to Moderator
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Ahh, yeah, good point Michael. I see your point there and it makes me appreciate the job the mods do on this site even more. I would have said common sense should come into play but when you've been writing something for ages, put your heart and soul into it, only to find it being destroyed in comical fashion...yeah, that would not be very cool at all.



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stevie
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:31am Report to Moderator
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This was a pretty tough challenge, possibly the toughest one in my three year tenure here.
Last years Hallowen one was pretty tough - the wheelchair, one female, etc, but at least there were some very good scripts from it.

I've read about 10 or so if the current ones, and usually read all of them and comment - no matter how bad the formatting or writing is. But I don't think I can do it with this one as most don't have much of a story IMO.

Even the few that are well written and set in perfect period detail, are still 'paint by numbers' to me, and I don't mean to be disparaging. In the effort to be loyal to the Gothic criteria, these scripts have lost any real life in them, and denote nothing of the writers own voice.

I haven't found one yet that I honestly really liked but I will read a few more. If anyone wants me to read theirs, PM me. I'm not one for the guessing game anyway, which I suspect will be nigh impossible in this case anyway.



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 9:07am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from stevie

I've read about 10 or so if the current ones, and usually read all of them and comment - no matter how bad the formatting or writing is.

Even the few that are well written and set in perfect period detail, are still 'paint by numbers' to me, and I don't mean to be disparaging. In the effort to be loyal to the Gothic criteria, these scripts have lost any real life in them, and denote nothing of the writers own voice.



I feel the same way, Stevie. I just can't stand scripts or movies that follow the dollar instead of heart. I think it's a waste of time and a betrayal of the soul to try and write according to some kind of paint by numbers scheme. It's the difference between buying say, Amish crafted furniture and something stamped out on an assembly line. No real love goes into it and I can feel that at my side.

Life is so very rich with experiences. I can't understand why writers would ever think, (once they understand a smidgen) that writing books will help. Living and sharing will. There's a big difference between writing something because you're passionate about it and writing because you think it will get you something or somewhere. A big difference.

Sandra






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DarrenJamesSeeley
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Quoted from stevie
If anyone wants me to read theirs, PM me. I'm not one for the guessing game anyway, which I suspect will be nigh impossible in this case anyway.


I'll PM you on which one is mine. Not for you to read it, but for you to avoid it for the time being. I've decided to revise it. After the revision, then read it if you want.



"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 9:29am Report to Moderator
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Stevie and Sandra: here's something to consider. Most people here want to be produced at some point, and even better to be paid for their work. A big part of that is responding to what a director or producer wants. It sometimes meaning writing not because you are passionate about the scene, but because that's the job. OWC's are good practice for that. You write something you otherwise would not be doing. You try to put your stamp on it, but in the end, you have to follow the job's instructions.

I don't think too many writers here prefer that their ghosts in the end become misunderstood and not so bad. But that's what they job called for, and they did their job.
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bert
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 9:30am Report to Moderator
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There is always a bit of "behind the scenes" chatter during these -- and it's funny -- most of the PMs I get are, "Don't read mine...it's horrible!"

Like Stevie, I enjoyed guessing when the OWC was small time, but now there are just too many.

I would also try to find time for any PMs with a read request -- provided the author is providing comments to others.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Eoin
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 9:45am Report to Moderator
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There's no need for me to PM anyone with a 'don't read mine' cause I didn't write one I'm finding that this OWC is a tough read. I'm not sure why exactly, mixture of things maybe, my expectation of what a gothic horror is, or should be, alot of first time and new writers, which is always nice to see, but maybe in lesser numbers, too much exposure in an OWC script reading frenzy. I became a little frustrated yesterday after reading a few and decided to walk away. I'll have a look again tonight with a clearer head.
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 9:53am Report to Moderator
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I can say I had plenty of quality reads on my entry, so no complaints in that department. Some of my script's flaws I was aware of when I submitted, but I couldn't get around them. The reviews help, and will hopefully lead to better work next time. Only problem for me is that I seem to have reached the downside of the learning curve and improvement is now very incremental at best. I wish there was a way to upgrade talent. Since there isn't, I suppose the next best thing is to learn to understand one's personal limitations and learn to get around them in some way.
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rc1107
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38 stories at once!  I don't know where to start!

Yes I do.  I'll start out with the titles that jump out at me at first.  (Mind you I'm going into this in a Gothic Horror mood.

1.  Our Lady of Eternal Suffering
2.  Payer Fedris - A Gothic Dream Tax
3.  Satanas
4.  Asylum
5.  Allured

(A Gothic Dream Tax) was kind of a turnoff for me, but 'Payer Fedris' has my curiosity going.

And there was something just so alluring about 'Allured', I can't resist it.

After I finish those, I'll choose which ones I read next by what loglines interest me the most.

See everybody in a bit.


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Dreamscale
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 10:02am Report to Moderator
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I've attempted to read 22 of the 38 so far, and will get to the rest ASAP.

As others have noted, this is a tough slog for me, personally.  The vast majority of what I've looked at so far is not good, and looks like no attempt was made to even run spell check or do a few re-reads.  In other words, there are so many mistakes/issues, it makes the read almost impossible for me.

Because I didn't enter this time, I find my patience to be be much less than usual, and I'm bailing out earlier than I normally would.  I apologize if that's a problem for some, but I'm just not going to spend 15 minutes reading something I know damn well is goiing to be a huge SLOG and letdown.
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Grandma Bear
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This happens a lot at MP when the competition assignment is very specific. It can be a real chore to read 30+ scripts that are very similar in tone and story.

I've read 7 so far. One I did not finish, but I decided not to tell the writer that. Right or wrong? I didn't want to be negative. I don't mind criticism, but I had nothing positive to go with the negative so I decided to be quiet.


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DarrenJamesSeeley
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bert
There is always a bit of "behind the scenes" chatter during these -- and it's funny -- most of the PMs I get are, "Don't read mine...it's horrible!"

.


Not horrible - but I'm not happy with it. If OWC were not for fun excerises, I would have bowed out.


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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Pia, you know my feelings - honesty is the best practice.  Searching for a positive isn't the way to go.

If an inexperienced writer decided to play along here, they should get exactly what their script deserves, and if that's harsh criticism, so be it.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize that when there are many "new" writers taking part, who are not good writers, the entire "challenge" suffers.  It also suffers greatly when the majority of these writers don't read and provide feedback themselves.

It's already Monday, and I think the heaviest hit entry has what...13 posts or so?  With 38 writers entered?  And others who didn't enter, also reading?  Hmmm...seems to me most of the entrants aren't reading much.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:17am Report to Moderator
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Been fun to be a part of, but I have found it rather a drudge to get through the scripts.

I don't know if it's the theme that's particularly constricting, or people's very literal interpretations of it in both their writing and their reviews, but it seems there's little scope for anything either way...either you have to stick to one plot line and a trad. Gothic enviroment, or you'll get called up on it.

The ones I've enjoyed the most have been more liberal interpretations.

Looking on wikipedia...stories as diverse as the Stepford Wives and I am Legend are considered "gothic"...as well as obviously more overt ones.

Mullholland Drive is considered Gothic (although clearly not horror).

I think writers should have the freedom of trying to update genres, bring them into the modern day, as well as just faithfully recreating them.
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ReneC
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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I run a screenwriting group. I've found the best approach for critiquing is honest and constructive criticism. Sugar-coating or only focusing on the positives doesn't help the writer. Put-downs don't help either; there's no reason to be mean or berating. The point is to try to help new writers, and sometimes in order to help someone you have to tell it like it is. This is a tough industry and it's better to develop a thick skin while still learning than when a reputation is at stake.

I'm new to this board but I plan on sticking around. You'll get to know I call it like I see it, and I really appreciate it when others do the same with my pages.

Back to reading!


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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:25am Report to Moderator
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Rick, there was another gothic horror OWC once where Phil wrote Dog Run, so it definitely does not have to be set in the old days or anything which it seems from the ones I've read so far.


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Hugh Hoyland
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:26am Report to Moderator
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I've been catching up but have a lot more to go. Will knock off many more on my upcoming days off (wed-thur) and if the creek dont rise.

So far it hasnt been to bad a read IMO. I want to learn not only how to write better but also give good tips to others trying to as well.


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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
Rick, there was another gothic horror OWC once where Phil wrote Dog Run, so it definitely does not have to be set in the old days or anything which it seems from the ones I've read so far.


Don't mind me, I'm just getting bitch-slapped about genre!  
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:41am Report to Moderator
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Sometimes, with a good story, you need a little distance from it to evaluate it effectively. I think the same applies to the OWC as well.

While you're doing the reads, it's a bit overwhelming and frustrating. But when you sit back with a little more perspective, it can look a little different. It did challenge a lot of people to think outside they're usual process. There was actually a decent amount of variety all things considered.

Gothic is a pretty wide range of things, as was discussed before the challenge. And it will continue to evolve. The only entry that I can think of that I didn't find Gothic was the phone apps one, Dances. Not a bad story, but not Gothic. But I was happy to review it.

Misunderstood ghosts is a little more specific. If a story didn't have something we commonly recognize as a ghost, or the ghost was barely involved, I don't think it met the challenge.

There's wiggle room. Far as I know, no one did this, but to me, a Scooby Do ending would have been acceptable. In other words, we encounter a threatening ghost throughout the story, and it turns out to be someone in a costume. That would have counted as a misunderstood ghost for me.

Another thing to consider: when we're reading a whole bunch of stories, some written by very inexperienced people, and then all of a sudden we encounter a complicated story, it's not always welcome. It might be a good story, but we don't have the energy to figure it out. Especially if there any flaws in its writing, and there are likely to be in a Challenge.

I read a story that I still have to go back and finish because I feel it might have been a good story that I could not do justice to. I just could not absorb the info.
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 11:52am Report to Moderator
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Just been thinking that I bet there's a fabulous story to be made by combining a few of these...grab Poe out of Open Casket, The Executioner, pick the best setting, a handful of Monks etc...

Ha. Could be a proper all time classic in amongst them all somewhere.
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Breanne Mattson
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 12:39pm Report to Moderator
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Warning: Breanne’s Rant begins in 3... 2...  

There’s no reason for any writer to get upset about what a reviewer says. In many ways, writers are the worst reviewers. They see things they think are obvious without realizing that they’re obvious to them because they’re writers. They look for any little thing wrong without realizing that a viewer may not care or notice.

The average screenwriter is clueless about what works or doesn’t in a script. This is why I don’t put too much stock in what reviewers say, or even coverage for that matter.

I’ve had readers knock a script, only to have a filmmaker think it was wonderful. I think a lot of writers here could say the same thing. Screenwriters are nitpicky people who are often way too close to a story technically.

I seldom see a film that surprises me in any way. I often watch a murder mystery and announce the killer immediately. When asked how I know, I’ll go off about how this character did this or that and therefore is or isn’t likely to be the killer. I’m not talking about typical viewers pointing out similarities between movies. I’m talking about writers nitpicking every detail. I think anyone who writes for any length of time is going to have their enjoyment of movies (or reading scripts) undermined by the craft.

Regarding “paint by numbers,” I hate to tell you this but that’s what works with the general public. People don’t like to accept it but the reality is that human emotion is easily manipulated. People respond to counterfeit emotion just as easily as if it’s genuine. You really can “save the cat” or “kick the dog” and people really will genuinely respond.

People often like to think they’re somehow enlightened or above that sort of thing but in reality you’re not. Your emotions are easily manipulated, whether you like it or not. And every writer does it. Whether they realize it or not. It works. It sells tickets. People’s emotions aren’t as ethereal as they think. It’s a beautiful thing when it all works out and creates a genuine experience. But people are fooling themselves if they think they’re above “paint by numbers” storytelling.

Rant over.


Breanne


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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 12:54pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Breanne Mattson

I’ve had readers knock a script, only to have a filmmaker think it was wonderful. I think a lot of writers here could say the same thing. Screenwriters are nitpicky people who are often way too close to a story technically.

People often like to think they’re somehow enlightened or above that sort of thing but in reality you’re not. Your emotions are easily manipulated, whether you like it or not. And every writer does it. Whether they realize it or not. It works. It sells tickets. People’s emotions aren’t as ethereal as they think. It’s a beautiful thing when it all works out and creates a genuine experience. But people are fooling themselves if they think they’re above “paint by numbers” storytelling.

Rant over.


Breanne


I've had producers tell me to my face...
Unless that writer can help get your script produced, who cares what they think?
They're the competition. Get it into the hands of actual filmmakers.
Writers won't tell you what your script needs to get made.

As to the paint by numbers debate...
I have no illusions that Zombie Playground is a unique property.
I wanted to create a fresh spin on some familiar tropes with a good theme. Period.
Does that mean I "settled" for a so-so story? Not in my mind.
Just trying my best to entertain and spread some good ideas around.

"A good movie must not only be entertaining, but easy to understand."

-Akira Kurosawa




LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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Pii
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 12:57pm Report to Moderator
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I fully agree with the rant above.


The act of writing is a quest to put a hundred thousand words to a cunning order.
- Douglas Adams
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michel
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 1:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Breanne Mattson

I’ve had readers knock a script, only to have a filmmaker think it was wonderful. I think a lot of writers here could say the same thing. Screenwriters are nitpicky people who are often way too close to a story technically.


Sure Breanne. Most of my scripts here were knocked down by reviewers, mostly because my Englsih was bad (typos, grammar mistakes, weird sentences, etc....) but I'm proud to say I had 6 shorts to be filmed.

SS concept is excellent. The first goal, I think, is to help each other to improve the style, the writing.... I learnt a lot here. That's why I've always been here. Some family events (some people know what I'm talking about) moved me away, but I do my best to be active. That's why I run that OWC.

Like I said in a previous post, I'm not fond criticizing writers. I do read the scripts, but when I can give my two cents, I do it.

The problem is that most of the reviewers tend to think when they read "I wouldn't have done like this.... " and are influenced by their own works. No one can be in someone's head when he wrote something. Many cristicisms are not constructive.

Just remember that the scripts have been written in ONE week. They cannot be perfect!!!

Furthermore, they have been written for FUN. Do not take them TOO seriously....



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michel  -  October 17th, 2011, 1:34pm
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 3:47pm Report to Moderator
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Interesting post Bre,

Wth a foot in each camp I think that it ultimately always comes down to subjective opinion whether something is good or not...it's just the way it is. I've watched films that I thought were superb..amazingly written, original, intense...and then you go on IMDB and you see people saying it was totaly stupid, made no sense and "was like the worst film I've ever seen!".

And I've watched films been bored by them and others just absolutey rave about it.

I will say though that I find the nitpicking things very helpful. As a filmmaker those things don't bother me so much when I read others scripts as I know they will never be seen...you can't mispell a photograph....but as a writer I find it helps me improve.

I think the standard of reviews on here are high, even if you choose to ignore certain things that you disagree with or don't really care about.

I do think writers will see things differently from filmmakers and audiences though. Audiences haven't gone through a long process of reading screenwriting books that tell you exactly how films are "supposed" to be. As long as there is stuff that keeps them entertained in some way on the screen, they just aren't going to care about certain things.

Filmmakers have their own concerns.

Scriptwriting is a strange game..as is filmmaking. There's no real standard. We all seek to improve, but it's not necessarily the quality that gets you somewhere. There are very low quality projects that people pay some money for, there are very high quality films that no-one ever sees.

I agree about the paint by numbers thing...I think stories are essentially built out of fairly simple building blocks. It's just that you have to find a way of arranging them to tell stories in ways people (at least feel) they haven't seen before.
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stevie
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:14pm Report to Moderator
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I started the 'paint by numbers' thing, so I better explain exactly what I meant.

The script that got me on about it was 'The Open Casket'.

Meticulously written - at a guess by one of our more experienced writers here at SS - researched to the max, all the period detail and Gothic stuff down to the last thumbscrew.

BUT...despite a couple of nice injections, like Poe, etc, there wasn't a degree of fresh story in it. It went through the motions, fulfilling the challenge requirements.

Is this a bad thing? No, of course!! The writer chose this way to do it, as did a few others. I reckon we all Wiki'ed Gothic Horror a minute after the challenge was set. I know I did!!

I couldn't see myself doing the similair thing and using all the trad(cliched?) ingredients. Well, I could've but would have had no chance in hell of coming up with a STORY to tell amongst it.

Anyway, i just wanted to clear that up a bit.




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greg
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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Good post, Breanne.

To everyone else - I've been really busy the past few days so haven't been able to read as much as I'd like (I think I've got 5 down so far).  I'm hoping to get in 6 scripts a day or so until I have them done, so hopefully before the submission for the Writer's Choice I'll have them all read.

Greg


Be excellent to each other
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:28pm Report to Moderator
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It's been a general theme in most OWC's I think...you tend to get the highly polished scripts that tread a well beaten path, or you get ones that try something different but end up a little unfocused or in need of a spruce.

In general readers will respond more favourably to the former, filmmakers more to the latter...which sort of ties in with what Bre is saying.

I think Chris Keaton in the Feb OWC said something similar. To paparphrase: Writers teach writers to write for writers.


Writers being people who spend long hours on the craft appreciate skilful and correct writing. But filmmakers know that all the great turns of phrase (dialogue aside) will all disappear...the only thing you will have left is the visuals and the overall story....as much as they want to keep anyway.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:39pm Report to Moderator
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Learning in life is not linear and neither is screenwriting. The suggestion of "paint by numbers" to me, suggests the idea of linear which can work, but I don't think it's requisite. I think a better way of understanding it is through paradigm and context.

Today I was working E.S.L. and my student said she really liked what we did today because I took her right out of the workbook and we started talking about stative verbs and abstract concepts that it is hard to understand in one's native language let alone across an ocean of culture to China. I discussed the word make versus create for example. You might create a work of art, but you make your bed. You might make or bake a cake, but if you're a wedding cake decorator, you're more in the realm of creating works of art.

I'm one to believe in learning through context and that to me means "live your life". Then... deedly-deedly dee... run and go read and write. I think that "paint by numbers" can give people a good place to start. It's like kids and coloring. But later on, if they so desire, they begin to draw their own lines.

Sandra



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jwent6688
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 4:42pm Report to Moderator
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Breanne,

Love the rant. I agree, as a simple script reviewer, I am too nit-picky on things. Almost feel as its my job to find something wrong about a script. It's usually easy to do. Felt a few of my faves have been raped for no good reason. I just want to grab those people and say "If you saw this, well done on film, that thought would've never crossed your fucking mind."

Gonna disagree with you "Paint by numbers" assesment though. Are you suggesting we should all read that Fucktard's book? In which he spends half the time bashing Christopher Nolan? And what did he write?

Save The Cat? Save My ass... Just bought a second copy because I ran out of toilet paper. And my ass is hurting, those pages could use some aloe..

James


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rc1107
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Lol.  You crack me up, James.  I've never read 'Save the Cat', but have heard some of the laws to abide by.  Makes my stomach turn.  But I am going to try and get a copy of it just to compare it with my own work, just to see if I'm involuntary adhering to any of his structure.


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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:17pm Report to Moderator
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I have never had any single review of any of my work here that I found to be completely on the money. But, for me, the "system" really works. If I can get 10 to 15 earnest reviews, cumulatively, a pattern starts to emerge from the noise which tends to reveal the things I most need to address. Does that make sense?

So I absorb all of the reviews, and then draw insights. It's kind of like putting a whole bunch of transparencies together, and the picture shows up at the end and points me in the right direction. I might get frustrated with a particular review at the time I read it, but in the end the all help form the picture and I am immensely grateful for them.

Even a review that says someone stopped on a certain page is a helpful clue. It's all a process.

Stevie mentioned Open Casket. I have no idea who wrote it. And it is cliche. But as things stand, and I will go back and look at my top contenders, this one would still get my vote. Not because it's well written and formatted, though it is. But because it does things a story is supposed to do to keep you reading from the first to the last. I'm not sure how many other scripts did that. Most had hiccups where you wanted to stop reading. Mine included, so I'm not throwing stones.

It's like playing a musical instrument, or composing music. There are certain formulas that work. Best to learn those languages, and then learn how to experiment with them to create something new.

One question on paint by the numbers: I know some of the formulas for features, such as STC, but what are the formulas for shorts? If anyone knows of any, I'd love to know!
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:18pm Report to Moderator
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Mark, there's a PDF of STC online. That's where I read it. Google. It's a quick read too.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:22pm Report to Moderator
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To suggest that all writers or all film makers see and review in a certain way is ludicrous, and downright foolish.

To think that all reviewers and reviews are equal is also quite silly.

The power of criticism is in what is brought up.  Most don' see simple story/plot/setup/premise flaws, but that doesn't mean they're not there.

I always have to laugh when I hear/read someone saying something to the effect, "well, no one else has brought that up, so IMO, it doesn't matter."  Noy quite accurate.

Don't even get me started on that arsenine Save the Cat shit...
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Breanne Mattson
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Quoted from jwent6688
Are you suggesting we should all read that Fucktard's book?


Not at all. What I’m saying is that a lot of what you see in scripts or movies is emotionally counterfeit. No one really experienced it. Yet it works because people’s emotions really are easily manipulated. You can really just use some arbitrary event to get a genuine emotional reaction from the audience. You really can just throw in a kid with cancer if you want to make the audience cry. You really can just throw in a puppy and people will smile and say, “Aw.”

It may not be a side of human nature we like about ourselves but it’s a real side.

Writers are fooling themselves if they think their work is somehow better or of greater artistic integrity because they refuse to conform to a three act structure or whatever.


Breanne


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Baltis.
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:28pm Report to Moderator
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To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed in the way some of you "vets" have acted for this owc.   You've been apart of several of these.  You know how they go.  You know none are indicative of the writer's true strengths given the restrictions placed upon them and here a great many of you are, bashing these scripts left and right.  No one asked you to attempt to open them, let alone read them... I got an email from a member here a few weeks back asking me if I was gonna enter this challenge - "I've been away for so long, I said, I might pop back in and give it a shot.  but i'll read them reguardless..."

Not to bash them, but to enjoy them.  I see the pressure flaws in every script I've read and that's what makes them so unique, you can see where the authors got behind the 8 ball and then tried to pull it all together.  These are great challenges.  Reguardless of the quality... Don allows these events to go on time and time again in an attempt to bridge newcomers over to the fold.  To broaden the spectrum, so to speak.  And time and time again a great many of you jump to keep this board as close knit as humanly possible.  A pack of animals.

I've been here for 10 years off and on when Don has allowed it and its becoming a pool of mediocrity not because people can't write, but simply because they're too affraid to post anything out of fear it won't meet the skewed, unprofessional standard set by so many of the regulars.  

I use to be on the same road... I use to be on the prick road.  I use to be on the, my work work is better than anyones road.  I use to be on the very delusional road many here are on now... It all leads to the same place - denial.  

The last 6 months I've entered 3 contest... Been in near constant contact with a script consultant and spent lots doing it.  I know what the problems with myself as a writer are now.  And being an invariant prick shank for the sake of message board fame isn't the way to go about helping anyone.  But that's what separates me from others -- I don't need to succeed in screenwritting to feel good about myself.  I do well without it.  I simply have to help someone who does have that desire but might not know how.  

Don should ban 5 or 6 of you people to be honest.
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:43pm Report to Moderator
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A good post Balt, until you started talking about banning people. Anyone who is serious about learning will accept all of their reviews, including the negative ones. These reviews are not the final word on your script, you have that. Take the advice and use what you think has currency.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:43pm Report to Moderator
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Which 5 or 6 would that be, Balt?
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stevie
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Which 5 or 6 would that be, Balt?


Jeff, Dreamscale, Bushy, bro, Rams fan, arsehole    




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bert
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 5:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Which 5 or 6 would that be, Balt?


Please don't bait the beast.

Balt's opinions, as always, are forthright and his own.

Naming names in such a manner is always counterproductive so let's not play that game.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Heretic
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:27pm Report to Moderator
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Just wanted to say major props on your above rant, Breanne.  It's important to remember that writers have a specific perspective when reviewing scripts.  I generally try my best to review as a filmmaker, but then that's another perspective that doesn't match with a general audience's either.  In the end, one has to put rather a lot of faith in oneself.

One need only examine Spielberg to see true mastery of the creation and manipulation of artificial emotion.  The standard stuff works when the right people do it, and that can't be denied.


Quoted from Baltis.
...not because people can't write, but simply because they're too afraid to post anything out of fear it won't meet the skewed, unprofessional standard set by so many of the regulars.


Yup.  But then, there's the industry for ya.
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:33pm Report to Moderator
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I know an arm wrestling trick taught to me by one of my old bouncers who use to compete in it. You can use it to beat someone twice your nice. It doesn't involve smashing him with a bottle. It's easy, too.
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mcornetto
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev

One question on paint by the numbers: I know some of the formulas for features, such as STC, but what are the formulas for shorts? If anyone knows of any, I'd love to know!


I haven't ever found anyone mentioning a formula for shorts.  However, there seems to be a general consensus that a short is a simple story with a twist at the end.   Most good shorts you read will follow this pattern -- though they don't have to they usually won't feel satisfying if they don't.  

Some people also believe that a short is a condensed formula of a feature, three acts and all that.  I'm not too sure about this -- I think that shorts and features are different animals.

I think no matter what the most important thing to do with a short is to connect with the reader.  That means picking a subject that will affect an audience.  You have to do this in order to make your short stand out.



  
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:48pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Breanne Mattson


Not at all. What I’m saying is that a lot of what you see in scripts or movies is emotionally counterfeit. No one really experienced it. Yet it works because people’s emotions really are easily manipulated. You can really just use some arbitrary event to get a genuine emotional reaction from the audience. You really can just throw in a kid with cancer if you want to make the audience cry. You really can just throw in a puppy and people will smile and say, “Aw.”

It may not be a side of human nature we like about ourselves but it’s a real side.

Writers are fooling themselves if they think their work is somehow better or of greater artistic integrity because they refuse to conform to a three act structure or whatever.


Breanne


Breanne, it's not that I don't agree with everything you've said. It is true for the most part. It's just that sometimes, "magic" happens when everything clicks-- where it wasn't just kind of cut out and stamped together. I think when writers really do take characters and situations from real life and build them into scripts, people can relate to them.

Sometimes, I've seen maybe some goofy type of movie and it's over the top, but certain crazy things happen and I go, "I can see that happening". But it's not just the writers. It's everyone. I like the idea of creating something and then just letting it go out into the world like a child, and grow. I don't need to hold onto every little thing. Who knows if what I mean is coming across, but when art converges with real life in that perfect little stew, I don't care how it was created, then I can feel it.

By the way, I wouldn't ban anyone. I might send them to the Lavaltory.   But I wouldn't ban them.  

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:51pm Report to Moderator
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I think every time the New England Patriots win, Jeff should be banned for a day. Unless the Rams win, but no point even mentioning that!
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stevie
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 6:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I think every time the New England Patriots win, Jeff should be banned for a day. Unless the Rams win, but no point even mentioning that!


Ban me everytime the Niners win and I'll be off site till after the Super Bowl!! WOOHOO!!!






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leitskev
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:02pm Report to Moderator
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Niners looking good. Harbaugh is the man. I don't think they can get by Green Bay, but who knows, Green Bay's defense has been suspect this year. Pats/Niners superbowl works for me! I'm worried about Balt...not that Balt, the Ravens. They're looking pretty dominant with that defense again,
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stevie
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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I just realised that instead of referring to 'PAINT BY NUMBERS', I should've written:

'CARICATURE'.



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jwent6688
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Heretic
James,

It would behoove you as a writer and as a member (and therefore to a degree a representative) of this board to write with civility.  The inappropriate personal attacks and the consistently profane and excessively aggressive diction in your posts not only overshadow any worthwhile content but also support the assumption -- undesirable, I think, on your part -- that no such content exists.



Am cool with it and leaving for the moment. I wanted to call out big bad Baltis before my knees were shackled. I guess this entire site, mods inluded, Are all scared little bitches. Will be the last you hear from me for awhile. It is cool, I adore you all. I just like to write, Time to do something else...



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greg
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Oh Hi

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Whoa, what happened?


Be excellent to each other
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mcornetto
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:28pm Report to Moderator
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Seems like someone had a bit of a fit and left.  What would an OWC be like if there wasn't a hissy fit that ended in someone stomping out?  

That was a fairly tame quick one though. Unlike the days of prolonged dragged out miserable arguing we used to have.  So, I guess we can say we've seen an improvement.

I think James will be back after he sobers.    
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rc1107
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from james to bert
Earn your pay byotch.  . Pretty calm waters out there so far, boss.


Hmm.


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bert
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:41pm Report to Moderator
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James if you are checking back in, you know that Don has very specific rules -- and in the interests of full disclosure I will claim ownership of the deleted post.

It is not that I am a scared little bitch -- (and I am laughing here, not taking offense) -- it is just that I would not be doing my job (such as it is ) if I were to see a post like that and just let it ride, you know?

Not your first screwball post and won't be your last and you know it.  Not even that big of a deal, really.  Do what you gotta do but check back in when you're ready, eh?


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Baltis.
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 7:43pm Report to Moderator
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James, I've not one clue why you're leaving and or who's refraining you from writing or saying what you feel... Apparently I missed a post or two.  I'll be gone before anyone else, so keep the lid loose on your meds, calm down and stop making a declaration.  Or is it spectacle?  

I made a personal promise to myself, and this site, to read every owc, reguardless if entered and help in anyway I can.  These scripts arent written as showcase peices... They are written to support the site, bring in new writers and test your own abilities should you decide to throw in your chips.

I am using my phone, so I ended my previous post a bit more abruptly than I should've.  I wanted to say "Don should ban 5 or 6 for a week or two".  Until the owc is over.  Why?  Cos there is a group who simply don't care about why the owc's even exist.

All I was saying... Not trying to run anyone off.  Now, i'm going to finish what I set out to do.  Read scripts and give thoughts.

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wonkavite
Posted: October 17th, 2011, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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Well, just finished my reviews.  And definitely know which three I'm picking.  Obvious stand-outs, all three (leaving mine out of it of course, heheheh.)  
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 7:56am Report to Moderator
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The one thing that disappointments me about this site is that it always kicks off when I've gone to bed!

May be in the next OWC should do night shifts so I can catch the  STC arguments.

Otherwise getting close to finishing my first read of each one. Yeah it is a mixed bag but I think it is good to see a handful of starter entries. Hopefully some on these can be developed into decent active members.

I haven't yet finished but there are 3/4 preferred choices for me so far.

One question I am wrestling with is how to decide between on the one hand high quality writing and on the other simple good writing but with a more interesting proposal. A couple have proposed interesting ideas but maybe lack the professionalism of other polished scripts.

One to ponder, but I think my preference will towards the creative offerings.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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leitskev
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 8:13am Report to Moderator
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I think we are on the same page, Reef. Story is king. Dialogue is huge, as well, since it's critical to the script. For me, the action writing is important in how it tells the story, how effective the story moves. I could care less about a passive verb or a spelling mistake, though. Don 't even bring up Fades; nothing to do with the story. Just there for the folks that seem to think they're important.

I still have several more to read.  At this point, I have a script that for me is on top of the pile, but it is kind of cliche script with nothing really new. However, it's the only story I've seen that's executed properly in terms of pacing and in terms of grabbing the reader.

Then there are another 3 or 4 stories that have something, but also have at least one major flaw that will have to be addressed on rewrite. I'm not sure how I should weigh that into consideration. I'm not talking about a formatting or writing flaw, but a story flaw.

And then there are a few other stories that are in kind of a unique category. They don't do any of the things I think a story should do, but they have something about them that could be effective in the world of shorts in terms of creating a memorable image.

Some of these scripts could look really good down the road once their issues have been addressed.
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RayW
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 9:45am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Breanne Mattson
Warning: Breanne's Rant begins in 3... 2...  

There's no reason for any writer to get upset about what a reviewer says. In many ways, writers are the worst reviewers...

People often like to think they're somehow enlightened or above that sort of thing but in reality you're not. Your emotions are easily manipulated, whether you like it or not. And every writer does it. Whether they realize it or not. It works. It sells tickets. People's emotions aren't as ethereal as they think. It's a beautiful thing when it all works out and creates a genuine experience. But people are fooling themselves if they think they're above 'paint by numbers" storytelling.

My God, woman!
You are beautiful!

People b!tch because a story has the same old stuff.
People b!tch when presented with things they're not familiar with.
Well effffffffffff meeeeeeeeeee!
Pick one, would ya?!
[expletive] stupid, dumb [expletive] [expletive]... !!!




Quoted from Sarre1One
question I am wrestling with is how to decide between on the one hand high quality writing and on the other simple good writing but with a more interesting proposal.

Depends upon if you like screenplays as written literature (cough, cough, they're not; they're blueprints) or movies for entertainment, and if I'm not mistaken the point and purpose of screenplays is to hand it over to a filmmaker to make into a film.

That said, when I get around to starting reading these screenplays tomorrow morning it will be from the perspective of "I have a camera, I have a audio guy, and  I can find these settings and appropriate actors to produce this short for a sensible short budget for entry into as many horror film-fests as possible next year".

I don't care about your typos.
I don't care about your slugs.
I don't care about weenie plot points a sensible conversation or three could rectify.
I know I could have written any story of my own to bend three different directions at five different places creating umpteen permutations of the "final" product. And I extend that same courtesy to any of you.

GL eveyone.
I'll get back to you guys hopefully by Friday afternoon with a Valentine's Day Massacre-like posting of reviews in classic, excruciating Ray-style.  



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 3:02pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Ray, can I use the following in a script with one little change I will show below:

Ray's Original:


Quoted from RayW


I don't care about your typos.
I don't care about your slugs.
I don't care about weenie plot points a sensible conversation or three could rectify.
I know I could have written any story of my own to bend three different directions at five different places creating umpteen permutations of the "final" product. And I extend that same courtesy to any of you.

GL eveyone.
I'll get back to you guys hopefully by Friday afternoon with a Valentine's Day Massacre-like posting of reviews in classic, excruciating Ray-style.  


Request to use:

EXT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

A cozy living room with sprawling toys... A dinosaur, a transformer and something uniquely homemade... THE FOIL BOX ROCKET, colored with black marker to produce gadgetry and its name reads: S.S. GEMINI IV.

A Simply Scripter, MAJOR TOM, in an S.S. super astronaut suit that is made of old vacuum hoses and house discards Ghost Buster style.

Enters the box in his white space suite.

Once inside...

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

The interior of this box is actually a room, amazingly plush with a green lounger. It's the size of a typical child's bedroom, but with foil lined walls. Stuffed plush toys abound.

Major Tom straps himself into the lounger and commences
to put on his helmet.

FLASH:

INT. GROUND CONTROL ROOM

Blinding white room. Ground Control Man uniformed in blue and white, he shall be known as ERETZ. He scribbles notes on a pad and punches keys on a calculator.

INT. ALUMINUM BOX ROCKET, LIVING ROOM

Eretz blows a bubble of his gum.

ERETZ
I think it's good. Primary location
for rocket interior should be your bedroom.

MAJOR TOM
But I wanted to be inside the rocket.

ERETZ
Just pretend.

MAJOR TOM
Got anymore gum?

Eretz hands him a chunk.

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL  BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

Major Tom secures his helmet strap.

ERETZ (O.S.)
Ground Control to
Major Tom.

INT. GROUND CONTROL ROOM

Major Tom's voice exits through Eretz's silver speaker that is really only a cheese grater. Through the cheese grater:

MAJOR TOM (O.S.)
By the by and righty-oh. Confirmed and...

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

Major Tom grips the sides of the lounger.

MAJOR TOM
...ready for lift off.

INT. GROUND CONTROL ROOM

Eretz excitedly points his fingers to LIFT OFF BUTTON, on a Keurig coffee maker.

ERETZ
Three...

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

The tin foil room is now dark, but light spangles forth, colors rain from a disco ball that twirls

Eretz is now in this room, too. He flicks the light switch on and off rapidly.

MAJOR TOM
Allez! Allez! Get out, Eretz.
You're ruining it! You need to
be at controls!

Eretz
I am I am. See?

He flicks the light faster.

Major Tom jumps out of the lounger and attacks Eretz, wrestling him to the ground.

ERETZ
(laughing)
Ok, I give I give.

Eretz runs to his station outside the bedroom.

Major Tom gets back into position on the lounger, his eyes fasten on the sound:

ERETZ (O.S.)
Three...

Major Tom shakes his head.

MAJOR TOM
No wait!

INT. CONTROL ROOM

Eretz gives a "shucks now what".

ERETZ
What's the matter?

Through the grater...

MAJOR TOM (O.S.)
I'm scared.

INT. FOIL BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

Major Tom is stuck motionless in his lounger as he looks around trying to think.

ERETZ (O.S.)
You were alright earlier, what happened?

MAJOR TOM
I think I forgot something.

ERETZ (O.S.)
You don't NEED anything, remember?
Just your imagination.

Major Tom sighs, relieved.

MAJOR TOM
Phewf! Had this weird thought for a moment...
Never mind...

He braces.

MAJOR TOM
By the by and righty oh...

INT. CONTROL ROOM

Eretz begins his three twirls as the room blurs out of focus...

ERETZ
Three...

EXT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, LIVING ROOM

Eretz takes a Lik-M-Aid stick, dips it in the colored sugary pack and sucks.

ERETZ
Sorry, got distracted. One more time...
Three...

He takes hold of the foil box rocket and shakes it.

INT. CONTROL ROOM

But Eretz is also here into his second twirl the blur passes on...

ERETZ
Two...

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET SHIP, TOM'S BEDROOM

Major Tom scrunches his eyes closed.

INT. CONTROL ROOM

Eretz STOPS his twirl. Big excited smile! He takes his big hand...

There it goes... to push...

There's a tiny lit blue screen. READY TO BREW

The Keurig coffee pot button--  

He presses it. BREWING. SCHLUUUP the coffee runs, girgling
into an S.S. coffee mug.

EXT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, LIVING ROOM

Still shaking the box rocket...

ERETZ
Pruuuuuurr.....rrrr

RAH! A real rocket's sound erupts from the Eretz's animated voice.

A real ROCKET SHIP TAKE OFF sound envelopes the room.

INT. ALUMINUM FOIL BOX ROCKET, TOM'S BEDROOM

RUMBLERAH.... And the interior of the rocket. Major Tom braces himself inside his lounger, clinging to the chair's arms.

And then...

EXT. MAJOR TOM'S HOUSE  PORCH

In the dreamy moonlight, Major Tom, drops a toy PARACHUTE MAN off the top step.

It floats down, slow mo. He runs down to grab it. Eretz runs behind him.

They fall down on the moonlit grass, staring up at the moon.

ERETZ
What should happen after you leave the craft?

MAJOR TOM
I think I wind up hearing G-d.

ERETZ
What does he say?

RUFFLE OF CLOTHING as they're up and...

AT CHERRY TREE

Climbing it now... higher, higher... branches cross us, stars fly
at weird angles. Into more black until... the moon's light overtakes us

COMPLETELY WHITE SCREEN

G-D
I don't care about your typos.
I don't care about your slugs.
I don't care about weenie plot points a sensible conversation or three could rectify.
I know I could have written any story of my own to bend three different directions at five different places creating umpteen permutations of the "final" product. And I extend that same courtesy to any of you!

COMPLETELY BLACK SCREEN

HOLLOW ECHO SOUNDS.

ERETZ
Major words, Major Tom.

MAJOR TOM
Righty oh. Let's go get some SPITZ.

ERETZ
Me first!

SOUND OF RUNNING AWAY...

INT. ACROSS GRASS LAWN

FEET RUNNING... Rise up... once again...

Into the black.

FADE OUT:



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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RayW
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 3:40pm Report to Moderator
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Sandra -

L.
M.
Asterisk.
Off!

Please, just modify any God references to celestial entities and it's all good!  


Now, can I take a camera, can I take an audio guy...



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from RayW
Sandra -

L.
M.
Asterisk.
Off!

Please, just modify any God references to celestial entities and it's all good!  


Now, can I take a camera, can I take an audio guy...




Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 7:55pm Report to Moderator
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I just started reading a script that is currently a Nichol's finalist(top 10). No FADE IN or OUT. I f'N love it! There is a THE END instead, and at the beginning is a NOTE explaining it is mockumentary.  I love it!
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 8:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I just started reading a script that is currently a Nichol's finalist(top 10). No FADE IN or OUT. I f'N love it! There is a THE END instead, and at the beginning is a NOTE explaining it is mockumentary.  I love it!


I still don't know what mockumentary is. I think I searched it once, but wasn't interested.  

Anyways, Kevin, (I love the name Kevin. Have two close Kevins that I love and ones a Scorpio. Love Scorpios) anyways, I have a script that had me under its spell and I mean it with a capital "S". It's still in production, and G-d only knows how I found it. I wasn't searching, just doing crazy Internet stuff. I really don't know how I stumbled upon it. I was looking something up. I scare myself sometimes...

So. When we get all this OWC over with and we're not all "hopped up" as my dad used to say. And I think we definitely are on this one, I will send it to you and anyone else. I think it would make a really good Script club. But maybe I should be like all hush-hush or I'll have the secret writing police after me.  

Sandra



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leitskev
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 9:09pm Report to Moderator
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Lol! Yeah, don't mention the script. I actually got contacted from someone on this site that I had never seen here before looking to see if I had Django. Maybe it was nothing, but could be suspicious. I had already dumped the script though, thanks to the advice of Pia. So I never shared it with anyone.

I hand out on Scriptshadow, and they review scripts there. Pretty sure this one I was referring to was given to them by the writer in order to get a review.

Mockumentary is a fake documentary like that Catfish one, or like the beginning of that recent alien film in South Africa(brain fart on name). I think Blair Witch counts too, though not sure, as that's a fake camera left behind type thing.

I read the first 20 of this Nichols one. It's kinda funny. I don't relish the idea of reading a whole script like that, but I think the writer has some talent.

I've now read at least part of a few of this year's Nichol's finalists. They're decent scripts, but I don't think they would be received well here.This is crowd that looks for different things then Nichols. Nichols seems to like drama or quirky, preferably both. They also like scripts that touch on social issues of the day. Remember those old ABC Afterschool specials? Kind of like that.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 9:21pm Report to Moderator
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I never said don't keep a script, just be careful trading or spreading it around.

Phil's Pugumentary is an excellent example of a mockumentary.



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 18th, 2011, 9:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Grandma Bear
I never said don't keep a script, just be careful trading or spreading it around.



Just like chlamydia.  

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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rc1107
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 1:00am Report to Moderator
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All right.  I read my first five based on which titles I like best.  By the way, I missed 'Annabel', which I probably would have put as my third or fourth favorite title.

Now, the next five I'll read based on my favorite loglines:

1.  The Open Casket
2.  Our Lady of Eternal Suffering  -  (Already read it, though.  Just wanted to put it out there that it's still my 2nd favorite logline.)
3.  Veil of Blood
4.  Innocence Condemned
5.  Annabel  -  (Already read it.)
6.  Abracadabra
7.  The Stone Within



I know, I know.  The Open Casket is probably the clunkiest and cluttered logline out of all of them, and it shouldn't be my number one choice, but with a quick brush up:  'An artist is commissioned to paint a portrait of a less than honorable viscount.'  this quickly becomes a story that I really want to read.

The same with 'Innocence Condemned'.  With a quick brush up:  'A young woman accused of witchcraft discovers death is not the worst punishment.'  Now I'm very interested.

As for why 'The Stone Within' is on my list without a logline at all...  Why the hell not?  My top favorite movies, I saw them all before I even saw a trailer or commercial for them.  (Don't anybody ever say I'm not adventurous.)


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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 4:18am Report to Moderator
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Woke up this morning and was disappointed not to see further bust ups on this thread. You all should really  try harder!

Well, finished all the scripts so i now need to read my short list again and ponder.

Out for a few beers tonight so intend to bore my mate senseless with this.

Cheers everyone.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr

Revision History (1 edits)
Reef Dreamer  -  October 19th, 2011, 7:33am
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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 7:25am Report to Moderator
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Mark, great idea to list based on title and log. That should be a future part of this. Very helpful to getting people thinking of the importance of thar.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I just started reading a script that is currently a Nichol's finalist(top 10). No FADE IN or OUT. I f'N love it! There is a THE END instead, and at the beginning is a NOTE explaining it is mockumentary.  I love it!


I got a notice about the Nicholls finalists yesterday.

http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/fellows/fellows.html

Some of those loglines are a tad, chunky, IMO.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 9:44am Report to Moderator
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I am certainly no authority on Nichols, but it does seem, for good or bad, they march to their own tune.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 10:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
I am certainly no authority on Nichols, but it does seem, for good or bad, they march to their own tune.


Nor am I, but I do wonder how those loglines would be received here.
Say, if a script popped up here from an unknown with those loglines.
Would you open it?

Perhaps it's somewhat moot, being a Nicholls finalist gets you read, period.

If I were to crack one of those open here...
It would be the FBI and autistic psychic boy one.

And dovetailing this back to our OWC...
I don't read the loglines. I simply go down the entire list of the scripts, in order.

I wouldn't have a prayer in this industry without this site and its members.
So, I read them all, knowing many of them are written by regular contributors.
Hopefully, there's a nugget in there somewhere that helps the writer.

It's rare that a logline grabs me.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 10:46am Report to Moderator
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With the OWC, I don't read the logs or titles closely either, since I try to read them all. And in fact, I myself always forget to write a log on these until I fill the form out.

But, a lot of people only have time to read several, so they pick from the logs and titles, like Mark did. Which makes this a really great exercise in what works and doesn't for those critical elements. It was actually kind of cool having the scripts posted all at once, as you could monitor which titles and logs were effective simply by the number of hits early on. At some point that begins to be impacted by the reviews, but early on it comes down to what logs and titles appealed to people.

There were a few of the Nichols that looked interesting to me. More than I esxpected compared to past years, which I did research a little.

I just got a group email listing links to 3 more current Nichols scripts if you're interested. They will be reviewed on Scriptshadow next week,

The thing about a contest is that all the scripts get read, so the log is less important. But outside of contests, the log and title has a huge impact on whether your script gets read. Even if you win Nichols, a producer will know that the title and log will have a big impact on being able to develop that script.

The Nichols scripts I've read are pretty well written. Nothing magical or brilliant, but very competent. Usually brilliant writing in a script is a sign of a problem anyway. Brilliant writing is for novels. And for my posts on SS!  
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Scar Tissue Films
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 10:55am Report to Moderator
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How many Nicholls scripts have been turned into films?
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mcornetto
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 11:00am Report to Moderator
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darrentomalin
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I don't pay much attention to logs either, I dive straight into the script. I am no good at writing logs and suppose it raises mixed feelings about its importance.
For a spec i imagine it is very important to grab the reader's attention from a pile but i'd hate to think they wouldn't even give it a skim just because of a clunky log.
I'd say the opening slug and action would (should) be more important.


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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Hugh Hoyland
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Im with leitskev, I forget about a log line everytime. Then I'll notice this little box that says logline and go "damn!."

By then I'll be worn out mentally by trying to write the script down and dont wanna fool with it anymore and then I'll rush some corny log line off the cuff.

I need to work on that lol.


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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 12:04pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mcornetto


Ehren Kruger won the Nicholls for "Arlington Road"
Now he writes for Transformers.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0472567/

Classic Hollywood.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

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is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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rc1107
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I believe loglines are an extremely important part of writing, especially if you're just starting out and have no contacts with directors or anything.  Writing only query letters to agents and producers to get your story out there is a cutthroat, suicide-driving process that doesn't really pan out all that much.  I think you need something killer for them to even respond to you.

Plus, not just that, I even find myself, as a consumer, that I only read books that have either an interesting cover, an interesting title, or an interesting description of the story.

Maybe it's shallow and I imagine I'm losing out on a lot of great stories, but I don't mind.  There'll always be another story I like right around the corner anyway.  (That is, if I'm not working on the shit that I'm writing that'll probably get ignored in the future by somebody with the same guidelines as me anyway, because honestly, I don't think I write very good loglines, either.)

And I've been told more than a few times my titles suck.  :-)


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Breanne Mattson
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 1:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Scar Tissue Films
How many Nicholls scripts have been turned into films?


Proportionately, it’s not a huge percentage. But there have been some great scripts actually get produced as a result.

I haven’t received what I would call an exorbitant amount of requests as the result of being a quarterfinalist this year but I’ve definitely received more than usual. And not just from lower level people in the industry. I’m getting logline requests from people who have been involved with sales to major studios, people who can get me an agent at a major agency. And I’ve had some script requests as a result of the loglines.

Of course, nothing is guaranteed but I’ve gotten more attention through the Nicholl than ever before. I definitely feel it was worth it.


Breanne


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DarrenJamesSeeley
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Quoted from leitskev


The thing about a contest is that all the scripts get read, so the log is less important.


Logs are in the eye of the beholder.
But "all the scripts get read"? Says who?
I've heard some readers giving up on stuff 20 pages in, others well before that.
Depends on the contest I 'spose.


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 1:49pm Report to Moderator
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We were talking about Nichols. It's my understanding the scripts get read. Certainly if something is dreadfully written or formatted, the reader my give up on it, but the point remains, Darren. These people are paid to read your script, so they will, regardless of the log. Different than if you're shopping your script or looking for an agent. A bad log there means your script does not even get to page one.

The discussion began with Brett point out some less than stellar logs in this years Nichol's finalists. I pointed out that logs are not so important for contests. I don't even know if they're looked at much by the judges. But outside of contests, they are critical. Do you disagree with that?
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 2:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
We were talking about Nichols. It's my understanding the scripts get read. Certainly if something is dreadfully written or formatted, the reader my give up on it, but the point remains, Darren. These people are paid to read your script, so they will, regardless of the log. Different than if you're shopping your script or looking for an agent. A bad log there means your script does not even get to page one.

The discussion began with Brett point out some less than stellar logs in this years Nichol's finalists. I pointed out that logs are not so important for contests. I don't even know if they're looked at much by the judges. But outside of contests, they are critical. Do you disagree with that?


If one is paid to read, you would think they are read-- in a perfect world. I certainly would. But do I believe it? No. I think that if you've read gazillions of scripts, there is going to come a point where you can eye them very quickly and what "I consider reading" and what "they consider reading" are totally different things. I just spent over an hour on ONE OWC script. Yes. Because I was scrutinizing every detail. In the real world, there is not time for such a scrutiny-- UNLESS YOUR GETTING PAID-- BUT BUT BUT...

If you're getting paid, you're also good enough that you've earned the right to GLANCE at a script, give it the five and dime, and your GLANCE will be as good as my HOUR-- so we're talking about different playing fields and also:

The Glance, might work with some scripts, but not with others. And so some people will be short changed in any case. Even here, and I try and do a good job, when I've been working really hard, sometimes I open a script that (if I was fresh) would get more of my attention, for the positive or negative, but it would get more insight in the critique.

I  feel that loglines are very important no matter what, contest or otherwise. I read them and I work hard for mine to be decent. They are very hard to do. But no, ultimately, I won't judge a script by its logline. I will judge it based upon what it achieves to do and how it accomplishes that end.  There's loads of stuff I look for in scripts. So many are very very dull. When I see a good one, I know it without doubt, even if some of the writing is shabby.

Sandra



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stevie
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 4:00pm Report to Moderator
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Normally I read every OWC entry but this time couldn't really do it. I reviewed about 12 I think - I starting writing them down but gave up.

There was some tough reads not just amongst the ones written by newbies. But it was a tough challenge.

I didn't even review my own(!!) as normal. I dunno, there seemed to be missing this time.

I don't have any real favorites but I'll guess i'll pick something out. I might read a few more, have been busy with work for a change.



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from stevie
Normally I read every OWC entry but this time couldn't really do it. I reviewed about 12 I think - I starting writing them down but gave up.

There was some tough reads not just amongst the ones written by newbies. But it was a tough challenge.

I didn't even review my own(!!) as normal. I dunno, there seemed to be missing this time.

I don't have any real favorites but I'll guess i'll pick something out. I might read a few more, have been busy with work for a change.


It happens, Stevie. I've read 21 so far and I wanted to be further ahead, but some of the scripts have intrigued me from the perspective of asking:

"Why did the writer write that?" "Why did they say it that way?" For me, it's not just about the story. I'm finding some very lovely little curiosities in the scripts and because of that, it's taking me a good chunk of time.

So far, I'm very impressed with all of the scripts and the variety. Hopefully I can read them all. I'm going to try, before Friday.

Sandra



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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 4:34pm Report to Moderator
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Hey stevie,

I would love you to read my script, I just can't tell you which one it is. Hope you keep going.

What I do realise with 38 scripts is that it is difficult to separate the good, the bad, the promising but flawed, the ugly and the simply weird.

When I look at the list it amazes me to see decent scripts fall off the portal along with others, I suppose that's the nature of this beast.

By now the previous reviews should give people an idea of what's before them so that's could be a useful tool in deciding.

It may drive you mad but this OWC thing is cool.

All the best.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Breanne Mattson
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I’ve heard quite a few people say the scripts aren’t as good this go around but, personally, I don’t think they’re as bad as a lot of people seem to think. I think there’s a lot of good material in the scripts I’ve read.

A lot of them need work, that’s true. I’m seeing a lot of grammar issues, a lot of on the nose dialogue and a lot of description that needs to be trimmed. Story structure is also an issue but it’s a problem for a lot of writers who’ve been writing for years.

Aside from all that, I’m seeing some good concepts, some intriguing dialogue, some interesting description and some promising writing.


Breanne


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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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I agree with Breanne.

A script is only as good as it's weakest link. One flaw can ruin it. So when you're reading it, at the time you encounter that flaw, it can really taint your evaluation. But flaws can be fixed! So when you sit back and evaluate more coolly, you can feel a little differently about the scripts than at the time you read them. I see a lot of scripts that will look better fixed up.

Anyone hiring Acorn to rig the election? They're busy, but not as busy as they will be a year from now!
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RayW
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I'll toss in there that the generally depressing nature of many of these stories, as opposed to the weak adrenaline inciting theme of attempted straight horror or action, may be sandbagging many of our reads.

I've gone through 11 of 'em so far and sheeeeeeit. Whatta sad sack mope-fest!


Last week I was noodling suggesting an unlimited 2012 rated R or worse! OCT OWC, but... I'm thinking that that's a pretty bad idea based on the depressing nature of this batch of fine stories.



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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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Ray, you made me think of something. Not the first time! These are dark because the genre is Gothic. And I thought the Gothic resulted in another problem.

Everyone felt that the Gothic setting had to be established. That resulted in a lot of scripts that really brought out all the bells and whistles to describe the setting, and we ended up with scripts that were really descriptive. Too descriptive, and it cluttered the read, really made it more work to envision scenes.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
But flaws can be fixed! So when you sit back and evaluate more coolly, you can feel a little differently about the scripts than at the time you read them. I see a lot of scripts that will look better fixed up.



Exactly! I just read a script that was weak in many ways, but had some way too cool explanation on the various types of ghosts. That, in itself is a lovely nugget that the writer can run with in the future.

Remember everyone, we're not talking about one script: We're talking about the craft itself.

Sandra



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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
Ray, you made me think of something. Not the first time! These are dark because the genre is Gothic. And I thought the Gothic resulted in another problem.

Everyone felt that the Gothic setting had to be established. That resulted in a lot of scripts that really brought out all the bells and whistles to describe the setting, and we ended up with scripts that were really descriptive. Too descriptive, and it cluttered the read, really made it more work to envision scenes.


I disagree. I read one script that had a huge block (wrong formatting I know) of black business, but it was amazing! I could see a director filming "all that".

I guess it all depends upon how you look at it. I don't mind if the writer draws my attention (for example of the script I'm referring) to: MR. DANIEL'S. (another way to cool remembrance) because I remember THAT PLATE OF UNEATEN FISH!!!

That means the writer did a good job at creating an image that I remember and glossing over that table from above.

Sandra



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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:41pm Report to Moderator
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Not saying it can never work out, Sandra, just that it usually doesn't. For me anyway. I mean, if we're near the end of page 1, and nothing important has happened and no dialogue takes place, that's a long page 1.

"He walked into a dark, empty house, unlived in for months. A mouse scampered across the floor. Curtains blew in a drafty window. Shadows from swaying trees danced along a wall of peeling wallpaper.

He took off his coat, threw it on the chair. A cloud of dust is loosed into the air. He checks the light switch. Nothing. A small table by the plush sofa, a draw partly open. He investigates, opens the draw, searches. A small black address book. He places in his pocket. A noise upstairs. He stops, listens. the mouse again scampers."

It's just too much. A whole bunch of stuff to envision before you are even hooked into the story, before you even know if it's worth the energy to envision.
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rdhay
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I'm gonna try really hard to get through all the scripts in the next day or two. So far (ie, about 5 random scripts in), I'm finding them a bit tough to get through because they're fairly overwritten, IMHO. Still, a couple of the stories have stuck with me and will make my list

Good job, everybody! As predicted, I wish I had entered
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
Not saying it can never work out, Sandra, just that it usually doesn't. For me anyway. I mean, if we're near the end of page 1, and nothing important has happened and no dialogue takes place, that's a long page 1.

"He walked into a dark, empty house, unlived in for months. A mouse scampered across the floor. Curtains blew in a drafty window. Shadows from swaying trees danced along a wall of peeling wallpaper.

He took off his coat, threw it on the chair. A cloud of dust is loosed into the air. He checks the light switch. Nothing. A small table by the plush sofa, a draw partly open. He investigates, opens the draw, searches. A small black address book. He places in his pocket. A noise upstairs. He stops, listens. the mouse again scampers."

It's just too much. A whole bunch of stuff to envision before you are even hooked into the story, before you even know if it's worth the energy to envision.


You should write off the cuff more often, Kevin. I actually enjoyed that!!! But you know me.  

Sandra



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dogglebe
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 6:01pm Report to Moderator
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I think a big problem with a lot of the scripts is that a lot of the writers do not understand what gothic horror is.  It's not just a location or a time-period thing.  It's mood.  Gothic horror should terrify you without the fear of violence or death.

When Eddie Pagan was the guest of Simplyscripts Radio, he explained Latin Horror as the victims fearing for their souls as opposed to the fear of physical harm.  Gothic horror is very much the same.  When you have one character chasing another character with a knife/gun/chainsaw/whatever, you left the realm of gothic horror.


Phil
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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 6:27pm Report to Moderator
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You're right to an extent, Phil, but that's the issue: mood. Very hard to establish it. One of the ways is setting. Or at least that was the common effort here. So we ended up with a lot of description.

I think Gothic is open to interpretation. It arose, I think, in the early 19th century as a reaction to rationalism. It came at a time when the world was being scientifically classified and studied, when emphasis was on the future, on progress. Gothic reaction represented a longing for the past, for esoteric knowledge, for mystery and mysterious places. The scientific world did not believe in the soul; the Gothic world is obsessed with it.

The Gothic movement flairs up repeatedly ever since it began. Every time science makes a leap and threatens who we are, we long for the past, the mysterious. The same psychological forces make UFOS so popular.

I think it's natural for us to want to describe a Gothic setting, and frankly that can be fun to do to, but it gets our stories into trouble when we start describing things and actions before we draw people into the story.

I would actually say the way Phil opens his stories is the way you want to open a story, Gothic or other. I was going to use a link to one of yours earlier today in a review, but I couldn't remember where it was. It's the one that starts out with the car accident in the woods, where the girls is saved by the druid. That's how you start a script1
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 7:19pm Report to Moderator
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Kevin, and everyone else...

I disagree with what you're saying about "too much desciption" out of the gate.

You have to understand that many of the classic Gothic Horror movies of the 60's and 70's...or any good "moody" movie, all begin with the setting, and keep in mind that 1/2 a page, in theory, equals 30 seconds of film.  That's not too much to "set the scene", or mood, IMO, at least.

Now, obviously, I'm not talking about huge blocks of prose with no action, but setting the scene is always important IMO, and especially when the mood and feel is so important.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 7:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe
I think a big problem with a lot of the scripts is that a lot of the writers do not understand what gothic horror is.  It's not just a location or a time-period thing.  It's mood.  Gothic horror should terrify you without the fear of violence or death.

When Eddie Pagan was the guest of Simplyscripts Radio, he explained Latin Horror as the victims fearing for their souls as opposed to the fear of physical harm.  

Phil


Yes, Phil. I have to agree absolutely. To me, and I might be wrong, but it's absolutely about mood. Deep down in the soul cutting fear. Beyond just physical pain fear, but fear of not "completing one's mission" fear of "past regrets", fear of "one's own dark shadowy negative parts in one's own soul"... etc... It's where all these different aspects come together and be they physical things or not, they present themselves as psychological manifestations to some degree and if it's done well, can be passed on to the reader.

Like in Poe's Amontillado:

Fortunato's desire to taste the wine and give his appraisal overrode his common sense. He couldn't even see what was coming. How many of us can relate to that-- with our own unfortunate desires?

To me, desire and passion are two things that are loaded in gothic and what it means to me.

Sandra



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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 7:46pm Report to Moderator
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I'm gonna make my case against that, Jeff, though I understand your position.

The 1/2 page/thirty second comparison is what's leading you astray, IMO. Looking at films as blueprints is a choice that puts your script at a disadvantage in the competition to get produced. The task as a spec script writer is to grab the reader into the story as quickly as possible. Every second that goes by without that happening is a lost opportunity.

I'm not saying that a half page is too much, I'm not drawing a particular line. But I would guess that a half page is risky. Especially if there are a lot of little objects or actions that the reader has to envision.

Get the reader into the story as quick as possible. Turning words into images is work for the reader. Asking him to make that investment before he even knows if he;s at all interested in the story is risky. Set the mood and the location as quick as possible, and get to the story. The goal is vertical reading: the readers eye should move down the page as quickly as possible.

There were a few well written scripts here that I felt exhausted already before we even met the first character, certainly before the character did anything significant or said anything. It's very similar to when writers introduce too many characters(that was not a problem in this OWC). It's a lot of work to remember them all and visualize them each time they come on.
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dogglebe
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Quoted from leitskev
You're right to an extent, Phil, but that's the issue: mood. Very hard to establish it. One of the ways is setting. Or at least that was the common effort here. So we ended up with a lot of description.


I disagree.  You can set up mood anywhere.  If you can't do it in a modern day setting, then you can't do it in a cemetery at night.  At the risk of whoring myself (I hate whoring myself), I recommend that you read Linus.  That was gothic horror set in a modern day park.  The characters made it gothic horror, not the setting.



Quoted from leitskev
I think it's natural for us to want to describe a Gothic setting, and frankly that can be fun to do to, but it gets our stories into trouble when we start describing things and actions before we draw people into the story.


I think it's lazy to pick the gothiest setting we can find for a gothic horror story.  Cemetery.  Haunted house.  It's been done to death because it's easy.  Try writing a gothic horror piece that takes place in a Chuckie Cheese.  That takes work, but could be done.



Quoted from leitskev
I would actually say the way Phil opens his stories is the way you want to open a story, Gothic or other. I was going to use a link to one of yours earlier today in a review, but I couldn't remember where it was. It's the one that starts out with the car accident in the woods, where the girls is saved by the druid. That's how you start a script1


Well, since you brought it up (you know how much I hate whoring myself), the script is A Druid's Guide to the Northeast and it's a sequel, of sorts, to Linus.


Phil

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Dreamscale
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 8:26pm Report to Moderator
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Kev, I hear what you're saying...I seriously do, but I definitely disagree with the point you're trying to make.

Bascially, you're saying that you're against visual, STRONG writing.  You're also saying that the "average" reader doesn't have the capacity to "see" visuals, based on visual writing.

You're saying that it's more important to skip strong visuals and go right into strong story...or any story, for that matter, because we all know the vast majority of any story, be it Pro, amateur, or actual filmed movie, is reltively weak and most likely downright lame.

IMo, the difference between a bad, decent, and god script, is the quality of writing...and more importantly, the successful attempt at strong, real visuals, that ANY reader can relate to.

Obvioulsy, the better the story, the better the script, but a strong, unique story is very hard to come  by.  Why not set everything up with strong visuals that jumpstart the read?
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leitskev
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I purposely did not use a haunted house or, God forbid, a castle in my script. No cemetery either. To me, Gothic is connection to the past, though. I do have some stuff in the setting of my story that does that, or tries to.

I did want to make sure my script was not only Gothic, but that most would understand it as Gothic. I mean, we could have Gothic Horror on a starship in the future, but few will call it Gothic, so it would fail on that ground.

Druid's Guide, yes, that's the one! The opening scene, that's how you bring someone into the story. A good comparison. Had you done it the wrong way, you could have spent half a page describing the dark woods where the dear and the antelope roam, the owl's eyes reflect in the night, the badger tests the idea of crossing the road, a star shoots across the sky, and wind whisper their secret songs. But you didn't. You brought us into the story. That's what a lot of folks didn't do here. The put a lot of energy into establishing a "Gothic" setting. Understandable, I just think they're better off getting to the story. Don't give the reader the chance to drift off. Grab and don't let go.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 8:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Why not set everything up with strong visuals that jumpstart the read?


Because the public at large have been public schooled and schooled by media. They grew/grow up on Brady Bunch and Glee. They cannot think, they cannot question, they cannot understand what eight on its side means if you write it into a script.

IOW: You need to dumb everything down and give them a hamburger and a coke and make them happy.

Sandra



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leitskev
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Jeff, an interviewer once asked Keith Richards why he does not do more lead vocals with the Rolling Stones, since he has a great voice(supposedly). His answer: what would Mick do?

You want us to establish strong visuals. I say leave it for the director. You have your job, he has his, and Mick has his.

Do I think you should describe strong visuals that will succeed in film? Yes, Yes, Yes!

What I'm saying is that it should not take a half page to do that, and I'm saying you don't need to describe everything and the kitchen sink in a scene.

Let's say the scene takes place in Jeff's bedroom. There's no reason to describe everything in the room. Only something that really tells us something critical about Jeff. Like that big naked poster of Rosie O'Donnel on the ceiling.

And I'll take in a step further. Maybe the writer can think of 7 things in that room that could really tell us something about Jeff(like the shoes in Black Swan). Maybe all 7 of things are superbly revealing and give us wonderful insights. But don't do it. It's too much. Get us to the story as soon as you can.

A good opening or establishing shot is important. But then get to the story.

And I don't the problem is that readers cannot visualize. The problem is that they can, and if you ask them to visualize a dozen things before there is anything going on, you'll lose them. Because they are not yet in the story, their mind will drift off. Game over. Tough to get 'em back now.

I'm not saying I am good at doing this. But the pro scripts get you into the story within a half page.
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leitskev
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Sandra, this is not about dumming down a script. This is about making the reader want to keep going. Jeff should agree with that, I think, as he stopped most reads on page 1. A good script won't let you quit.

Ok, I have to get some work done! I'll check back in an hour. Love you guys, later.
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Hugh Hoyland
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.


Because the public at large have been public schooled and schooled by media. They grew/grow up on Brady Bunch and Glee. They cannot think, they cannot question, they cannot understand what eight on its side means if you write it into a script.

IOW: You need to dumb everything down and give them a hamburger and a coke and make them happy.

Sandra


Sandra so true, and sad. People have no idea how important learning (or the ability to study) is.
On top of that inability is a tremendous amount of false data swirling around as well in so many different subjects.



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Dreamscale
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Sandra, if you want to provide a generic hamburger and a fucking Coke, you go, girl!  I will not follow.  I'm tired of that shit and I don't go for hamburgers and a Coke.
Kevin, first of all, Keith Richards' voice on a scale of 1 to 10, is most likely about a 2.  Mick Jager?  About a 4.  The Stones' allure is not from strong vocals.  Let's be clear on that up front.

You're throwing out numbers of things to describe and using page length as well (yes, I did throw out the 1/2 page example, but again, in a film, 30 seconds of an opening, establishing, "mood shot/setting" is far from extensive.

I think we're veering apart in our thinking of what makes a good/great, or even decent script.  For me, a good script is never gong to be a generic, non visual snoozefest.  It's lazy writing and lack of a creative mindset to me.

I "view" and "read" each and every script based on exactly what is written.  I base my opinions on that as well.  If you can't "show" me that you've visualized and hopefully reasearched your setting, I'm already unattached, and rolling my eyes, looking for more mistakes...which is exactly waht you don't want your readers doing.

People conitnually say, "Oh, who cares, that can be changed...that can be fixed...that doesn't matter."

It does matter.  It sets a good script apart from a crap script.  It shows that the reader fucking cares about what he/she's writing about.

You want to impress a blind date, don't shave half your face, and comb half your hair (if you have any hair, that is   ).

When you invite that young lady over for dinner, you better fucking serve an entire meal, as well.  Don't throw a fucking steak down on a plate and say, "Dinner is served, Baby!"  havea plate of apps out.  Have a bottle of wine, have a slad, have a side dish.

If you do, your cock will be entertianed...every fucking time.  Don't do it?  Best of luck, cause if she expects that, you're probably out.  You may get lucky, but why leave it to luck?

Set your scene.  Stack teh deck in your favor.  Throw a Ruppee in her drink (KIDDING, gals...totally kidding, of course!).

But seriously, do it up and do it to eth max.  Why wouldn't you?
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 9:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Sandra, if you want to provide a generic hamburger and a fucking Coke, you go, girl!  I will not follow.  I'm tired of that shit and I don't go for hamburgers and a Coke.



My point, exactly. Can't stand it. Don't want it. It grates on me like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Sandra



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Scoob
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Excuse me for just butting in!  I think setting the mood is important but you need to write it well enough so that it doesn't require half a page to do so.  I, unfortunately, constantly fail at this!

Interesting to read you guys discuss it and what you think about it since overwriting has been one of the more common problems this year?





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Ledbetter
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 9:44pm Report to Moderator
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Jeff....

Don't you think you're overreacting just a bit here?

Shawn.....><
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stevie
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Quoted from Ledbetter
Jeff....

Don't you think you're overreacting just a bit here?

Shawn.....><


What, more than normal?    



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Sandra Elstree.
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Quoted from Scoob
Excuse me for just butting in!  I think setting the mood is important but you need to write it well enough so that it doesn't require half a page to do so.  I, unfortunately, constantly fail at this!

Interesting to read you guys discuss it and what you think about it since overwriting has been one of the more common problems this year?



You're not butting in! Hey Scoob! I agree. It's just a matter of getting it down right. It might even be more than half a page, IF, it's done right. That's another story. But with that aside...

I personally think that it's not always the writer that's at fault. Sometimes, yes. But also, it's the fault of lazy readers. They're just plain lazy and if anything crosses their path that they have to work to understand, they don't want to do it and I understand, because life is terribly fucked up and busy and people are stressed... yada-yada-yada.

Writers who desire to help bring people into difficult and abstract concepts need to learn to "blame themselves" for having failed. Then, maybe perhaps, we can raise the bar, and lift people out of their stupor.

Sandra





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leitskev
Posted: October 19th, 2011, 10:10pm Report to Moderator
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I don't want to impress a blind date. I want a date that's blind!

I'm not talking about mistakes. For the sake of the discussion, I am assuming that we are talking about a script that is formatted and written correctly, and even written well, with memorable descriptions. I think the problem is we're talking about two different things, maybe.

I see a film as a story. You see a film as a series of images. Does that sound right?

And what I'm saying is that a spec script has to sell the story. Not describe a series of powerful images.

We need some powerful images to tell the story, in any form, whether it's a campfire story, or a novel. But if you're just describing images, I don't care how good your writing is, you're gonna lose most people. We can debate what the best form of story is, 3 Act, 17 Act, STC, whatever. But the bottom line is that it's a story. A film is a story. A script is a story. A novel is a story. A script is something that can impress someone that it can be turned into a film version of that story.

Look at Open Casket. That's how you do it. Strong opening shot that sets the tone with a powerful visual, and establishes the period. Then we go into the castle, the quickest possible description is given. There's no describing spiders building webs, 15th century tapestries, medieval armour, scurrying maids, or cousin it. He gets right to the story, and gets right to the heart of it. No idea who the writer is, but that's how it's done.
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bert
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 7:31am Report to Moderator
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I do not think Don will mind if I tentatively open this back up this morning -- a shame to lock the OWC thread during the OWC.

I assume the antics leading to last night's closure are finished -- and little more than a fuzzy memory in the pounding heads of its participants.

Behave folks -- don't get me in trouble with the boss.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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c m hall
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Thank you, Bert, for making the executive decision, my fingernails are worn to shreds from scratching at the thread door... all those gothic stories...

Anyway, I think the scripts in this OWC were by and large well written and entertaining, I congratulate everybody that participated either with scripts or comments, it's been a very useful exercise for many of us, me certainly.

Now I see that the dappled heather along the broken rocks is nearly choked by overgrown weeds... who you gonna call?
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rc1107
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I'm finding it interesting how the word gothic is leading a lot of people to open up their story with a horse and carriage.  I'm not complaining about it.  It's just, three stories in a row now is kind of weird.


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Electric Dreamer
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Quoted from rc1107
I'm finding it interesting how the word gothic is leading a lot of people to open up their story with a horse and carriage.  I'm not complaining about it.  It's just, three stories in a row now is kind of weird.


It is the classic interpretation of the term, for sure.
But to me, there are many modern era and quite popular equivalents.
You're invited to disagree with me, but...

My favorite example of what I consider to be contemporary gothic horror is:





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Dreamscale
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 12:31pm Report to Moderator
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I agree with you, Brett, but "contemporary"?  I'm on a heinous dial up internet connection, so I can't check very easily, but isn't that movie like 40 years old or so?
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 1:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rc1107
I'm finding it interesting how the word gothic is leading a lot of people to open up their story with a horse and carriage.  I'm not complaining about it.  It's just, three stories in a row now is kind of weird.


Mine was done as a little bit of a joke. We were talking about the budget and the requirement of horses in some scripts and the cost factor last OWC. Well, really, in many towns, it's a touristy thing and it's easy enough to rent them cheap. Irregardless of that, I was joking with Kevin because he had a four hour carriage in Dark Escort. Anyways, I says "Can I borrow your four horse carriage when Dark Escort's made"? He says something like, "All we could afford was a donkey and a cart".  ;D

Thus: Sandra just had to put one in her script. Double  ;D

Originally, I had the line: Must be borrowed or stolen... But as recommended, I took the aside out. All my fun ruined.  :-/  ;D ... but on the upside, it was that aside and that fun that gave reason and meaning into my lilly character's past.

I would make a terrible CEO or Lawyer or anything like that. I'd most certainly be the one sitting atop my desk and singing Little Willy Willy Won't... go home cause ya can't push Willy 'round Willy won't go.  ;D

Sandra



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dogglebe
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 1:08pm Report to Moderator
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I would say that The Excorcist is a good example of contemporary gothic horror.  Blair Witch Project might also be considered contemporary gothic horror.  Both movies play with your fears and insecurities without resorting to violence.


Phil
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I've read some that were a little tough to get through, but I've also read quite a few I really liked this time. Do I care how close to the challenge they are? Not really, I would say a good story that might be weak on Gothic horror beats one that got the mood down, but the story was uninteresting or dull. If I were a producer, I imagine it would be easier to "goth" a script up than take a turkey of a story and turn it into a "Black Swan".


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leitskev
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Even Sixth sense. You have ghosts from the distant past in the old school house, and you have a Gothic feel to settings such as the church, the house with the turret. You also have the war between scientific, rational thought and the supernatural.

That's right Sandra, I had horseys and a carriage last time! Those buggers ate the whole production budget. And the old guy drank all the whiskey.
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Quoted from Dreamscale
I agree with you, Brett, but "contemporary"?  I'm on a heinous dial up internet connection, so I can't check very easily, but isn't that movie like 40 years old or so?


The film came out in 1968.
Comparatively speaking to the origin of gothic horror in the 18th century.
Yes, I do believe Rosemary's Baby is a contemporary of that period.
Right down to the wind blowing through most of the trailer.

Are there more recent examples of incarnations of gothic horror? Sure.
And I invite folks to share them on the thread, if we feel it has merit to the OWC.
Polanski's film is my personal favorite example of the era.

Cut me some slack, I be an old fart

Regards,
E.D.



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Baltis.
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You can shoe horn Gothic Horror into many movies that are, at core, simply horror films.  Even Friday the 13th has elements of gothic horror... Do they out weigh the horror?  No... But the elements are there.  

Woman + dominate, oppressive  horror = gothic horror.

Or

An empty room + light on = gothic horror.

Those are how general the genre can be.   I think, and the movie sucks, "the devil's advocate" is a good representation of modern/contemporary gothic horror.

Anyways, we all have different takes on what makes us get to the stage of openly saying, yea this is gothic horror and this is not.  By most calculations "gothica" is gothic horror by name alone...  
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Quoted from Baltis.
You can shoe horn Gothic Horror into many movies that are, at core, simply horror films.  Even Friday the 13th has elements of gothic horror... Do they out weigh the horror?  No... But the elements are there.


Gothic horror doesn't rely on violence like slasher films do.  Being chased by a maniac with a knife is not quite the same as saying a rocking chair rocking by itself or candles blowing out by themselves.  While slasher films may incorporate some aspects of gothic horror, their primary scare tactics is physical violence and a painful death.


Phil

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Baltis.
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Quoted from dogglebe


Gothic horror doesn't rely on violence like slasher films do.  Being chased by a maniac with a knife is not quite the same as saying a rocking chair rocking by itself or candles blowing out by themselves.  While slasher films may incorporate some aspects of gothic horror, their primary scare tactics is physical violence and a painful death.


Phil



Oh absolutely, not in the overall sense.  But there are elements in Friday the 13th, and almost all horror movies, that fall back on the Gothic horror genre.  I think Gothic horror is the biggest part of standard horror in terms of the elements used to comprise them.

Wind
Fog
Stormy night
Old house
Old Mansion
Gargoyle statues
Ghost
Fear of the unknown

Those are just some of the staples of the genre ... And while using, as you said, brutal kills and deaths to move the picture along isn't Gothic horror, the elements driving the films often times are.

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Sandra Elstree.
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Quoted from Baltis.


Oh absolutely, not in the overall sense.  But there are elements in Friday the 13th, and almost all horror movies, that fall back on the Gothic horror genre.  I think Gothic horror is the biggest part of standard horror in terms of the elements used to comprise them.

Wind
Fog
Stormy night
Old house
Old Mansion
Gargoyle statues
Ghost
Fear of the unknown

Those are just some of the staples of the genre ... And while using, as you said, brutal kills and deaths to move the picture along isn't Gothic horror the elements driving the films often times are.




Check, check, check, check, check... shucks! I knew I forgot something! The gargoyles! How could I have forgot the gargoyles?!  




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rc1107
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Quoted from sandra
I was joking with Kevin because he had a four hour carriage in Dark Escort.


Actually, I was kind of half-hoping that Kevin would re-submit 'Dark Escort' for this challenge, just for fun, as I think it could pretty much match the criteria for this one, too.  It had a gothic feel, and the escort was a ghost, so...  :-)


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leitskev
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No misunderstood ghost in Dark. Plus, that one I wrote in less than a day. I thought I might do better if I actually tried. Trying is overrated, I guess. Didn't do any better. I worked more on this than any other short I've written. I'm going back to cranking it out in a day next time!
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Sandra,

Surely your missing the most important element... The over grown weeds. Seems many scripts have relied on these little fellas to set the scene.

Mind you I have also spotted a few leaf devils, strangely locked doors and non behaving mirrors.

Fun aside, I have enjoyed this OWC and I feel there has been some decent discussion on what makes this genre distinct.

Thanks to everyone. All the best.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
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Quoted from dogglebe
I would say that The Excorcist is a good example of contemporary gothic horror.  Blair Witch Project might also be considered contemporary gothic horror.  Both movies play with your fears and insecurities without resorting to violence.


Phil


I considered "The Skeleton Key" and "The Orphanage" to be recent examples...although I think we may be getting one early next year with "Woman In Black"


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
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dogglebe
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Quoted from Baltis.
Oh absolutely, not in the overall sense.  But there are elements in Friday the 13th, and almost all horror movies, that fall back on the Gothic horror genre.  I think Gothic horror is the biggest part of standard horror in terms of the elements used to comprise them.

Wind
Fog
Stormy night
Old house
Old Mansion
Gargoyle statues
Ghost
Fear of the unknown

Those are just some of the staples of the genre ... And while using, as you said, brutal kills and deaths to move the picture along isn't Gothic horror, the elements driving the films often times are.


Soap operas can be considered gothic horror by your definition.  I think that, to be gothic horror, you need more than just using gothic elements.  They should dominate the story.  Michael Myers chasing you through an old house is still a slasher flick.  True gothic horror doesn't rely on violence.


Phil

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michel
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Thought Shutter Island was a kinda Gothic....


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leitskev
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I agree on Shutter Island. Thought it was a very good film, as well.
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JonnyBoy
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 4:50pm Report to Moderator
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I think my short 'It Gazes Back' that Michael produced as part of last year's The Dark OWC was pretty quasi-gothic-ish-esque in tone. That's what I was going, for anyway, that sort of Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde, recounted supernatural story feel.


Guess who's back? Back again?
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Baltis.
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 4:50pm Report to Moderator
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Phil, Dark Shadows...  Pretty Gothic Horror.  I see your point, and am not arguing the fact.  I'm saying the genre has been hijacked; not unlike the tea party.  

Herpes Cain would say "apples and oranges, yo... Apples and oranges."
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Zanej
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:08pm Report to Moderator
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Would like to throw thia out there. I'm new to writing read scripts b4 I knew the diffrence between spec and shooting scripts. My point is if you cant provide me constuctive criticism then don't bother. Saying I couldn't get half way through because of all the errors... Well genius how about providing me with the errors and a review of the rest overall. At least that way I can figure out my mistakes and come out more knowledgeable  from this.
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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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That's actually a lot of work, Zane. If someone does it, you have to appreciate it, and if they don't you have to understand. Telling you what page they quit on is at least a clue to where the problem began. Hopefully you got some help from other reviews.

Keep in mind, after the reveal, if you've provided someone a useful review, they may come back and put some time into your script for you. the burden is on you to earn that.
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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:12pm Report to Moderator
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And with 12 posts, I would say you are not at all earning it.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Zane, with that kind of attitude on your post, you're not going to get any sympathy here.  A total of 12 posts ain't gonna help either.

Do you think "we" owe you something because you submitted an OWC script?  I'm pretty sure which script is yours, and if I'm right, I'd say you're the one who owes all of us!

Now get reading and providing constructive feedback.  You have at least 26 more scripts to go!  
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Zanej
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:29pm Report to Moderator
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LMAO not to start something but I read ever script but me being so new to writing I am in no position to give a review. And trying to judge experience by a post count is ridiculous tbh
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albinopenguin
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:31pm Report to Moderator
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doesn't matter if you're "qualified" to give a review. we still want to hear your opinion.


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darrentomalin
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
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I am new too, I can't provide much technical feedback as I am still elarning like your good self. I just comment on what I like or don't like based upon what I do know.


http://darrentomalin.webs.com/index.htm

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Dreamscale
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:36pm Report to Moderator
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Zane, no one is judging you by your post count.  My point was that you should read and comment on all the OWC entries, if you entered and if you expect others to read and review your entry.

Your experience does not mean you can't give your opinion on a script.  Just like a movie, you either like it, or you don't.  There have to be reasons why.  That's what you should be providing.

Now, go back and post feedback on each and every OWC script.  Thank you.  Class is dismissed.
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Zanej
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:45pm Report to Moderator
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I hope everyone enjoys their novice opinionated responses brought to you hy Dreamscale
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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Zane, I have no idea which script is yours, but I promise you, the learning curve is fast and steep at the beginning if you stick around here. But you have to give to receive. Review scripts and write detailed and honest opinions about what you liked and didn't like. Offer suggestions if you can. You WILL see improvement in your work if you do these things.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 5:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DarrenJamesSeeley


I considered "The Skeleton Key" and "The Orphanage" to be recent examples...although I think we may be getting one early next year with "Woman In Black"


Good call, DJ.
Maybe gothic? I'll let the new expanded trailer speak for itself.

E.D.







LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 6:20pm Report to Moderator
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It's funny, but "Gothic" gets the sub genre within horror, and "slash" is just understood as horror. It should be the other way around as far as I'am concerned. Slash has been in vogue for a while, but it seems to me what we call Gothic Horror was for ages just considered plain old horror.

I can watch knee reconstruction surgery on the discovery channel and be horrified. A lot of slash is no better than that, except it's special effects and makeup instead of reality.
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mcornetto
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 6:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
It's funny, but "Gothic" gets the sub genre within horror, and "slash" is just understood as horror. It should be the other way around as far as I'am concerned. Slash has been in vogue for a while, but it seems to me what we call Gothic Horror was for ages just considered plain old horror.

I can watch knee reconstruction surgery on the discovery channel and be horrified. A lot of slash is no better than that, except it's special effects and makeup instead of reality.


That's like film noir which wasn't known as film noir until after they stopped making them.
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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Next October OWC: Gothic Noir Horror in 1950s New York. Janet and Phil have to be handicapped, since they live there.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 9:37pm Report to Moderator
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I think it would be interesting, (OWC or no) to take gothic staples off their castle shelves and place them in a different setting-- a very different setting:

We might normally imagine the lonely castle. I can imagine working with gothic during a busy and crowded sports event. Especially, since when one is in a huge city crowded with people, or a loaded coliseum, one can feel the loneliest of all.

What ghosts might we find there? What regrets? The hockey player's lost chance at a goal. The brother who takes his sister to the game and she never forgets it. (That would be me). The cleaning lady who's cleaned her last damned toilet and kills herself.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Breanne Mattson
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator
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I’m almost done.

If I was too harsh in any of my reviews, please keep in mind that they’re just thoughts I had while reading and may or may not reflect crankiness from reading so many.

I enjoyed reading them. Wish you all the best.


Breanne


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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 9:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
Next October OWC: Gothic Noir Horror in 1950s New York. Janet and Phil have to be handicapped, since they live there.

They are only allowed to type with their toes...and don't cheat, because I will be able to tell right away!!



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dogglebe
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 10:00pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Zanej
I hope everyone enjoys their novice opinionated responses brought to you hy Dreamscale


Zane, ignore Jeff.  He's had a chip on his shoulder for a while (a big reason why some of us have killfiled him).  What do the others say about your script?

And, in regards to you not be experienced/qualified enough to critique scripts, that's nonsense.  Your fresh eyes might see something that the more experienced people have glossed over.  If you want to see how well your review of a script compares, critique the script before seeing what other people think.  If your opinions are similar to the majority, you're probably on the right track.


Phil

Revision History (1 edits)
Scoob  -  October 20th, 2011, 10:15pm
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dogglebe
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 10:03pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
I think it would be interesting, (OWC or no) to take gothic staples off their castle shelves and place them in a different setting-- a very different setting


Been there.  Done that.  Setting a gothic mood in a mundane setting is easy.  If you can't do it right in a modern day playground, you can't do it right in an old castle.


Phil

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leitskev
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 10:41pm Report to Moderator
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Zane, you're doing good on the reviews now. People will appreciate the effort. Personally, I would like to see more comments just on what you like or don't like in a story, but that works too. And it will pay off, as people here really help those that try to give back.

Janet does her scripts on the subway, gonna be tough to type with toes!
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Ledbetter
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 10:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Phil,

Thats not cool saying just to ignore Jeff.

I'm not looking to stoke anything here but his opinion is as valid as any poster here.

A lot of us here happen to respect him and his opinion just as we do yours.

And if it were reversed and Jeff were saying this about you, I would say the same.

I've chatted with Zane this evening and he's cool with everyone here. He just wants to learn, like all of us.

Shawn.....><
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 20th, 2011, 10:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe


Been there.  Done that.  Setting a gothic mood in a mundane setting is easy.  If you can't do it right in a modern day playground, you can't do it right in an old castle.


Phil



You may have been there and done that, Phil. But I have not. And remember, everything has already been done before, but everyone has a unique perspective. Just because you or I have seen or done something, we can't disqualify something.

It upsets me to think that (me included) people might ever get the impression that something isn't worthwhile just because it's been done before. We need to remember that for every new generation that comes along... it's new to them. And I myself am guilty of saying, "It's old news".

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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TheUsualSuspect
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 1:36am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter

I'm not looking to stoke anything here but his opinion is as valid as any poster here.


Except all he says in the majority of the scripts is that he stopped reading them.

No constructive criticism from the guy. It's discouraging to new writers and I think an insult.  

I understand that's his "style" but the guy needs to give more feedback than.

"This sucks, I stopped reading after page 3"



A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.
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Baltis.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 1:47am Report to Moderator
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Zane, some people here just have a set way of doing things... They're unwavering to change.  It's not that they're bad people, or that you shouldn't respect their opinions any less because they come off abrasive or rude.  

I've been off the site for 6 months, entering contest and spending money on two of my scripts like I drink water.  6 months ago I thought I knew it all... now I know why I didn't.

For instance, Jeff would no doubt think the below Scene header is formatted in correctly when in fact the movie this came from has become a semi-house hold name world wide, spawned a sequel and has a third iteration coming out.

EXT. ROAD - NIGHT (TEXAS/MEXICO BORDER)

A million stars wink in the night desert. ...


I've read 3 scripts in this OWC that format like the above, and all 3 times I've read Jeff roasting them on why it's wrong.  When, in all honesty, it's not.  It's just a preference.   Now I'm not gonna say he's got to do it this way... but I'm also not going to tell you that you can't do it this way.

In closing, write... find your style... don't adhere to what others are doing because you think it's right.  Do it your way, see where it takes you and build on it script by script.  Yes there are rules you must follow and those do not change.  But there is certainly enough room to breath inside the walls to do it your way.

Best advice I can give you.
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wonkavite
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 5:36am Report to Moderator
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...and if there are negative, nasty people on the board - just kill-file them.  It's the best answer to deal with it.  (Not naming any names.)

**That said - you do have to be open to legitimate, well-meant criticism.  There's tons of that on the board too...and while it sometimes hurts, it'll almost improve your script *immensely.*
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dogglebe
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 5:40am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter
Hey Phil,

Thats not cool saying just to ignore Jeff.


I killfiled him a few weeks back when he decided to start a stupid argument with me with the last OWC.  I have the right to ignore him or anyone else that I find irritating.  I haven't read any of his reviews from this OWC (first hand, anyway), but from what other people have commented, I'm glad I did.



Quoted from Sandra Elstree.
You may have been there and done that, Phil. But I have not. And remember, everything has already been done before, but everyone has a unique perspective. Just because you or I have seen or done something, we can't disqualify something.

It upsets me to think that (me included) people might ever get the impression that something isn't worthwhile just because it's been done before. We need to remember that for every new generation that comes along... it's new to them. And I myself am guilty of saying, "It's old news".


But as writers, Sandra, we should try to think outside the box.  Leave the cliches behind.  Based on the title alone, which sounds like a more interesting read:  Ghost In The Castle or Ghost In The Ice Cream Shop?


Phil
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 9:35am Report to Moderator
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That's great, Phil.  You're a Hell of a guy.  You "killfiled" me because you chose to cheat in the last OWC and couldn't come clean about it, when I called you out on it (without actually caling you out).  You're a big man, man.   You're my new American Idol.  

Usual Suspect, what can I say?  Why don't you go back and take a look at the detailed feedback I've given people for years, before you go complaining about my feedback.  I didn't submit an OWC script this time around, therefore, what I read, how much I read, and what I throw out in feedback is my perogative.

Balt, not sure what to say to you either. I thought you and me were cool, but apparently that's no longer the case.  You want to follow Phil and his Mrs. and his other minions, that's up to you.  We both know there are many ways to write a scipt, and many examples of how various Pros have written scripts over the years.  My philosophy is simple - don't do anything that may cause a reader to quit reading, be confused, or get pissed off at the writer.  You never know when that reader could be the one who really matters.

If any of you don't think I know what I'm saying, don't like the way I say it, or just think I'm an ass, that's perfectly fine.  Go ahead and continue to praise the weakly written scripts, and find any negative you can on the well written scripts.  Kill the competition so your entries will shine a little brighter.  But don't hate me for bringing up mistakes and problems in your scripts.  If they're there, chances are pretty good I'm going to see them, whether or not you even realize they're there.

Thank you all for your time.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 9:50am Report to Moderator
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When can we start guessing who wrote what? It would be hard this time, but I want to throw my guess on Open Casket in.  


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 10:02am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from dogglebe

But as writers, Sandra, we should try to think outside the box.  Leave the cliches behind.  Based on the title alone, which sounds like a more interesting read:  Ghost In The Castle or Ghost In The Ice Cream Shop?

Phil


I know and hear you.  

A few more reads to go and I think I have my favorite. It's the other two that are giving me trouble.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 10:19am Report to Moderator
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I still have 9 reads to go! Didn't realize it was that many til I started filling the vote list.  And one of them someone listed above as one of their top 3, so there are still potentially good ones.

I just read a script last night that, though others didn't seem to think so, I thought was pretty darn good. Sometimes I think if the first couple of reviews are negative, people are likely to follow suit. I was pleasantly surprised how decent it was. If the ghost didn't pick up a damn gun, it would have been one of my favs.
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Baltis.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:07am Report to Moderator
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Jeff, I was actually telling the guy not to discredit your opinion cos you might come off rude.  I also never said you didn't know what you were doing, just that you are pretty set on doing it this way, and most are.  It's their style.  I simply told him to write his way, find something that works within the rules established and build on it.  

Nothing wrong with that.  I was simply giving out an alternative route for him to take.  I also didn't want him to leave the site on the account he's new and the site needs new members to refresh itself every once in awhile.

Lighten up people...
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:22am Report to Moderator
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I'm awaiting the RAYW onslaught! Not experienced one of these before. i just hope he manages to read mine as the more feedback the better as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know how others feel but the OWC does create interesting emotions as you see reviews of your script posted. Each time I want to answer the questions raised, explain what they missed or what I should have included, but can't. I try to distance myself away from what I have written but inevitably there is emotional attachment. Ok, you can tell I'm new!

I appreciate the reveal is everyone's chance but that means waiting!! Shucks. (I appreciate others may PM reviewers direct but as a newbie I'm trying to play it straight).

Cheers.






My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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ajr
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:29am Report to Moderator
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Jeff,

If Phil kill-filed you, which I expect means he hid your replies from his view, then he cannot see your multi-paragraph admonition. Which means you've now taken to talking to yourself on a message board...

Okay, I'm curious - all those who have kill-filed me, raise your hands!

(0:


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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bert
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:36am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ajr
Okay, I'm curious - all those who have kill-filed me, raise your hands!




There are 38 scripts to discuss and some of you cannot stop talking about yourselves -- or others?

That is just weird.  C'mon, guys.


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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greg
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:40am Report to Moderator
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Oh Hi

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Quoted from leitskev

I just read a script last night that, though others didn't seem to think so, I thought was pretty darn good. Sometimes I think if the first couple of reviews are negative, people are likely to follow suit. I was pleasantly surprised how decent it was.


One of my pet peeves is when someone says "I agree with xxx about xxx".  In my reviews I seldom if ever bring up another person's review because I want my words and thoughts to be my own.  Liking something is completely subjective anyway, but I agree with you about following suit.  


Be excellent to each other
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:45am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
I'm awaiting the RAYW onslaught!



Ray is a brilliant mind. There are many of those kicking around this site actually and it's really an amazing thing to behold. A person has to be careful and not blink sometimes, or you might miss something.  

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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ajr
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:53am Report to Moderator
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Damn that's funny. You are an evil genius, Bert.


Click HERE to read JOHN LENNON'S HEAVEN https://preview.tinyurl.com/John-Lennon-s-Heaven-110-pgs/
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RayW
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 12:35pm Report to Moderator
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Poor ol' Ray's got too d@mn many irons in the fire...

Okey-doke, here's what I got done here, so far:

>> SPREADSHEET <<        and       >> BREAKDOWNS & COMMENTS <<


Neither sheet is cleaned up at all, they're essentially roughs.

Tonight and in the morning I can post these comments to each thread, but I don't have time right now.

Sorry!
Sorry!
Sorry!

My weekend and beginning of the week are buggered, It'll be a [expletive] miracle if I can get to the rest of the rated Rs and un-declared ratings before Tuesday.




And thank you guys for the kind words.
I'm honestly just trying to earn my keep around here.


Oh, sh!t! There's the Devil right NOW!  Bye-bye! H&K! See ya later!



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leitskev
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 1:23pm Report to Moderator
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Jeez, Ray. I'm having trouble just reading an reviewing all the scripts, and you have everything but casting calls and productions schedules worked out!  Whatever you drink in the morning, send me the recipe please.

Don't share it with Janet. Then she'll start writing 2 features a week!
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Zanej
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 1:38pm Report to Moderator
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Like the breakdown and comments thanks Ray they help me get a bigger picture of all the scripts
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DarrenJamesSeeley
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 1:46pm Report to Moderator
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I have already started to re-write my script. The solutions stared me in the face, and I should have done it to begin with. It's actually a little better now, at least it is to my satisfaction.

Ray's breakdown will have little effect, sad to say.


"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 2:19pm Report to Moderator
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Anthony, I don't feel like I'm talking to myself, but if I am, so be it.

If someone's going to slander me, or call me out on something, you better beleive I'm going to respond and stick up for myself.

If someone, like Phil or janet, ro whoever decide they don't want to see my posts, that's their perogative.  I however, enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and feelings, wheter or not they are in line with my thoughts and feelings.

I know that I provide lots of support to SS and our current and new members alike.  I know that my words, advice, and feedback has helped many writers of many different levels improve tehir writing expertise as well as their individual scripts.

You can always lead a horse to water, but sometimes it's difficult to make him jump over the fence...oh wait...is that how the saying goes?  

IMO, it's not the words that matter, it's the intent, and my intent is always to help, enlighten, teach, and support anyone who is seaking out advice and help with their screenwriting.

It always amazes me how many writers hate hearing about mistakes they've made.  I just don't get it.  When I make a mistake, I thank whoever points it out, and am sincerely grateful, as I'm a perfectionist and want my work to be as close to error free as humanly possible.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 2:40pm Report to Moderator
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I looked at the breakdowns Ray. First I'm amazed that you took the time to do this. I do have a comment though in regard to especially the audio FX. They are all pretty easy to come by. Either as free stock audio or rerecord them yourself. I just don't think a writer should worry about those when writing except for specific music of course. Neither would they worry about the visual FX. An amazing amount of things can be done on the computer.  Neither would I worry too much about anything else that might up the cost or the rating of a film either. Writers should concentrate on the story IMO. If a producer loves the story, they are usually creative enough to improvise with some changes. I personally would love to do Bert's pirate short in San Augustine. There would have to be changes made, but I would love to do that one.  

One thing I LOVE with working with these young students am working with is that nothing seems impossible to them.


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wonkavite
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 2:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ajr

Okay, I'm curious - all those who have kill-filed me, raise your hands!

(0:


Anthony - I'd never kill-file you - you're a sweetie!  

Even if you aren't from the Bronx....
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jwent6688
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 3:37pm Report to Moderator
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Any members that have been doing alot of reading this OWC, please PM me the name of your script if I haven't read it. I'm about half way in and no way will I get them all. Gonna read a few more this weekend before I vote.

James


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bert
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jwent6688
Any members that have been doing alot of reading this OWC, please PM me the name of your script if I haven't read it. I'm about half way in and no way will I get them all. Gonna read a few more this weekend before I vote.


Same offer here.

I swear that most authors I actually know have told me NOT to read their scripts.

It is so odd....


Hey, it's my tiny, little IMDb!
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Grandma Bear
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Same here. Only one person sent me a pm to read his script, but he didn't tell me the title. He's also not reading so....


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dogglebe
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 4:21pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ajr
Jeff,

If Phil kill-filed you, which I expect means he hid your replies from his view, then he cannot see your multi-paragraph admonition. Which means you've now taken to talking to yourself on a message board...


Killfiling people that bother you makes SS that much more enjoyable.  If I didn't do it with SR, I would've left the boards a lot sooner.


Phil




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wonkavite
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 4:47pm Report to Moderator
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Honestly, my viewpoint on it is this.  I come to Simplyscripts for:

1) Comraderie with fellow writers

2) Feedback on my work - both the good and the bad/critical...even damning - as long as it's honest, respectful, and truly meant to be constructive.

Anything that doesn't fit that description ruins my enjoyment of the site, and the very reason why I come here so often.  

Better to kill-file such aspects...and get back to what we do best here at SS...write, review and celebrate the whole process of creating!


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Grandma Bear
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There are a few that I read partially that I didn't really care for, but of the once I have read and commented on, I think the quality has been pretty good. Some excellent ones even!


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mcornetto
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 5:19pm Report to Moderator
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I haven't read that many of them but I picked ones I was pretty sure I would like based on the reviews inside.  That's how I'm kind of getting through them.   So any suggestions of scripts I shouldn't miss would be appreciated.  
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Ledbetter
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 7:14pm Report to Moderator
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I haven't been able to get as many read as I wanted to as well.

Maybe a third.

I will try and get a few more done tonight.

When is the deadline?

I noticed an E-mail by Don talking about the writers choice submissions.

I'll make the same offer as others. PM me and I will do my best to give you a read tonight.

Shawn.....><
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 9:21pm Report to Moderator
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Led!  Please read my script!  Please?  Pretty please?  It's realy, really well...I mean good.  I mean it's really, really, really good.

Thanks.
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Scoob
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 9:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ledbetter


When is the deadline?

Shawn.....><


I too would love to know the deadline! I thought it might be Tuesday, to coincide with when the voting stops, but it would be a bit of relief to have it confirmed as I've only got 7 to go.




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wonkavite
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 9:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DarrenJamesSeeley
I have already started to re-write my script.


Here here.  Me too.  Just finished v.2  Added a few pages, and it's a definite improvement, IMHO.  (Congrats to Kev on that one - his pm'ed suggestions really gave the story a shot in the arm...despite my initial objections to them)
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RayW
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 10:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DarrenJamesSeeley
Ray's breakdown will have little effect, sad to say.

Noooooo. That's imposssssible.
Everything I do MUST have an impact on the very fiber of your...
Nevermind.
That's cool.





Quoted from Grandma Bear
I looked at the breakdowns Ray. First I'm amazed that you took the time to do this. I do have a comment though in regard to especially the audio FX. They are all pretty easy to come by. Either as free stock audio or rerecord them yourself. I just don't think a writer should worry about those when writing except for specific music of course. Neither would they worry about the visual FX. An amazing amount of things can be done on the computer.  Neither would I worry too much about anything else that might up the cost or the rating of a film either. Writers should concentrate on the story IMO. If a producer loves the story, they are usually creative enough to improvise with some changes. I personally would love to do Bert's pirate short in San Augustine. There would have to be changes made, but I would love to do that one.

D@mn.
What have I got to do around here to make everyone happy?!
You guys are killing me!

Nah, juss yolking.

Yeah, finding audio off of soundbible.com, pdsounds.com, et al is pretty nice.
It's just that when you gotta custom build some of these it gets time and resource consuming.
And it's for a short, which has the economic value of a five year old sweatshirt.
You just gotta love it, or else...

Definitely, writers SHOULD concentrate on the story.
Heavens, yes!
I'm still working on my (non-comprehensive) 2010 Independent Film Distribution & Revenue Analysis thingie and one of the first things I noted was just that: If the story rocks or sucks theater owners/purchasers will book accordingly.

Recognizable movie stars WILL NOT save your film.
A big budget WILL NOT save your film, either.


Story!
Story!
Story!

And it honestly is more about the premise than the execution of a story.
People will come by the thousands to see a film they end up hating.
Why?
Because the premise got each of them to cough up the AJs.
If they were unsatisfied with the product then that's too bad, but they've already spent their money by then, so whoop-tee-effing-doo!
Too bad. So sad.

I'm just pointing out that if you're writing a story for a major studio to pick up (and they produce plenty of <$30m features) be mindful of the budget and bend your story accordingly.
If you're writing a small story for an indie director/producer to foot the bill on then write accordingly.
Know your film. Know it's market. Know who is likely to produce it.
About $7m is the average indie film budget, and they can expect <$8m box office, so there ain't no big money in this biz.

And that's the few distributed films in ten-thousand features that get filmed each year.


Build a house people will want to live in.
Build a car people will want to drive.
Serve food people will eat.
Write a story people will want to see.




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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RayW


And it honestly is more about the premise than the execution of a story.
People will come by the thousands to see a film they end up hating.
Why?
Because the premise got each of them to cough up the AJs.

Build a house people will want to live in.
Build a car people will want to drive.
Serve food people will eat.
Write a story people will want to see.



I would like to write a film that people would cough up dollars to go see and those dollars would benefit our children in the up and coming generations.

I don't need much of anything. I have a farmer close by who supplies me with potatoes (yes he's Irish... and I love him he's so strong...). My meals are very simple. A boiled egg and a piece of the bread I bake lasts me all day. When I cook I cook like Hell... usually huge pots of soup that might last a lifetime if you are studious and keep adding to them.

The most important thing for me is to bring back "the home" into house. The love back into "sex".

As far as the premise/story thing goes, I try and entertain people and share with them and teach them. If I can do all three, then (when that happens and I can do it in a blink) I think I might have come close to have mastering part of the craft.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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Baltis.
Posted: October 21st, 2011, 11:47pm Report to Moderator
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I've read all of them but 4 or 5... maybe 6 ... I will get to them, but I've got a back log of like 12 scripts I need to review before I do.  I read Forever Thine 3 days ago and just now got around to my review and it's not fair to the author for me to do that -- more so if they read mine and reviewed it day and date.  
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Scoob
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 1:26am Report to Moderator
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I just hope the deadline can last until Tuesday, I've only a couple to read and I want to re-read a few of them.

Its been a great OWC. Thanks to Don, and all that have made this happen. what a brilliant site. We are lucky to be here and have this.

My gratitude for the big man goes no bounds. All I can say is thank you.



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wonkavite
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 11:29am Report to Moderator
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I wanna start guessing who did what?!!  
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 12:11pm Report to Moderator
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Just completed the voting.

Is it normal to do the pass/consider thing for an OWC? Just asking as the last one didn't have this, as far as I remember.

I like the idea, I just wish I knew about it when I started reading and taking notes.

In terms of guessing who wrote what, I don't really know people here but I may throw a couple of names around if this starts.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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Ryan1
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 2:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
Just completed the voting.

Is it normal to do the pass/consider thing for an OWC? Just asking as the last one didn't have this, as far as I remember.



This is the first time I've seen the pass-consider-recommend thing used.
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 2:44pm Report to Moderator
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I have 5 more to read. Of the ones read, 1 Recommend and 8 Considers.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 2:50pm Report to Moderator
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Maybe because Screenplay Readers use that? Might be business standard for readers.

You only have 1 recommend Kevin?  I have several, but I don't think I'm allowed to vote since I didn't enter.  


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jwent6688
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 3:03pm Report to Moderator
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Whoa, just opened up the voting link. Never saw that before. Dammit, I had my three faves. Now I gotta go back through my comments to see what I thought about the others. Curse you Don!

It is pretty cool if every script gets a score card or something like it at the end. Maybe this would work better if sent out at the opening of the OWC. We could keep it minimized on our PCs and rate the scripts as we go. Just a thought. See how it works this go around.

James


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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 3:21pm Report to Moderator
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Open Casket got my recommend. In theory, some others could be made into a better film, but they need enough reworking that 'consider with revisions' seems more appropriate. Open Casket's ready to go. I have absolutely no idea who wrote it. I have a guess, based on writing style, but I'm not even gonna go there. I'll wait.

There were others that were very well written and had some strong points, but also really didn't make sense. I noticed a lot of people liked Forever Thine. It was nice, but wasn't really a sensible story. Tricking a ghost into scaring the wife to death like that was already a little too weird, but even accepting that scenario, she was dying already, so didn't really make sense.

Jeff really liked the one with the multicolered spirits, and there was good stuff there,  but again, too much doesn't make sense about the priest's actions or dialogue. And the story seems confused itself. It's implied the girl did something with the priest they should feel guilty about, but then never explained and she is presented as a complete innocent.

No one seemed to like Morley House, but I think that one was very well done. I'm not too comfortable with a gun wielding ghost, so that should be changed.

A bunch others, like Asylum and Eternal Suffering had really strong aspects that can be fixed in the next draft. I think Asylum has already achieved that, but the voting is on the present version.

There were a lot of scripts that I gave a pass, but that had their strong points. These ones either needed a lot of work, or the premise just doesn't work.

That's my amateur analysis! Sorry, no charts like Ray, but there's only one Ray, everyone knows that!
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jwent6688
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 3:35pm Report to Moderator
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1 Recommend and 9 considers from me. I only got a little more than halfway through these. Surprised I only got 1 PM for a read from people whose scripts I haven't hit yet. Makes me think alot of people aren't reading out there. Almost got as many reads from people who didn't even participate.

My one recommend was The Open Casket as well. It's the only script I read that I had zero problems with. The recommends I think need at least one rewrite.

Won't be surprised if the Casket runs away with this one.

James


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greg
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 4:50pm Report to Moderator
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I'm making a guess: Balt wrote Open Casket.


Be excellent to each other
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 5:14pm Report to Moderator
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Some others on my consider list: Open House, Allured, Veil, and Lonely Tenant. Plus, I have 5 more to read, and at least one of those received excellent reviews.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 5:52pm Report to Moderator
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Since I didn't submit a script (or did I?  Hmmm...), I can't vote.  If I could, I would have 1 recommend, and maybe 3 or 4 considers with major rewrites.

I don't want to be mean or come off as an ass, but IMO, the VAST majority were not well written, thought out, set up, etc.  I totally understadn 1 wek isn't alot of time, life gets in the way, and this was a challenging challenge...

BUT

...there's just no reason why so many scripts were submitted without even a single edit.  Misspellings and typos shouldn't exceed 5 for a 10 page script.  No excuse for it.  Grammar is another issue in and of itself.  Technical stuff is also a whole different ball game.

Anyways, I do send my apologies if my words offended or upset anyone, as that is never my aim.  I see mistakes, I point them out...or in some cases, I just stop reading if it's so obvious and flagrant.

Kudos to all who entered.  And a special cal out to all who didn't, but read a bunch of scripts.  Very cool!
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 6:26pm Report to Moderator
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Several months back I started a thread the purpose of which was to explore what makes a good short. In that I suggested that for me an effective short is able to leave one lasting impression, whether that be an image, an idea or an emotion. It was just one way of looking at it.

A curious thing with trying to evaluate these shorts with a sheet that was given a few days after we started was that sometimes I couldn't remember anything about a story, even some of the good ones. So I'm going to go back now and take a quick look.

Dance: scorpion in omelette; dance in basement
asylum: playing cards with ghosts
Sanctuary: empty house of dead people
Payer: a girl who is denied dreams
Morley: rich white girl bangs slaves
Revenant: grove where ghosts wait for loved ones
Eternal suffering: let's do the time warp again
Lonely Tenant: a ghost that plans ahead; a huge apartment with one tenant
Angels: rainbow spirits, American parachutes at the end

I can't say why I remembered these. In some cases it might be because I read the story more recently. In some cases, I don't even approve, like the scorpion. And looking the list, there are some stories that I remember liking, but couldn't now tell you much about them. My favorite was Open Casket, but I don't recall an open casket. Was there one?

I have Allured checked as a 'consider', but I can't remember the story. I just know I must have liked it.
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wonkavite
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 6:41pm Report to Moderator
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My top three (leaving mine out it) are as follows....

* Forever Thine (Kevin brought up some legitimate logical issues with the script, but they're such an easy fix - and I love the story in all other aspects...)
* Open Casket
* Veil of Blood

Can honestly say I have *no* idea who wrote these scripts.   Curious to find out (especially since Pia sat out this one, and I would've figured one of these to be hers...)

Enjoyed whimsical aspects of Allured and Dance as well, though certain things in the stories led me to view them as considers, as opposed to recommends...  

Yet others had aspects I liked, even though the full script didn't work for me.  Examples of those include Falling Angels, the 'rewind' script, and the one with the abused lesbian daughter...

There are a few that I absolutely didn't like for stylistic reasons - but those of course will remain unnamed!  
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 7:02pm Report to Moderator
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I had Veil on my list of considers, so it got a thumbs up from me. But funny thing, despite reading it twice, I can't remember one thing about it. Some scripts leave an impression, some don't. Some scripts leave a bad impression too, so not always good that  remember!

Thine I remember, but mostly because I wasn't buying what that script was selling. Tricking a ghost to scare your wife to death...no, I can't take that serious. But the writing was good, I think I remember that. And that could be turned into a very funny little skit. Picture Steve Carell as a bumbling guy with a dominant wife who terrifies him, and he makes a deal with a ghost to scare her to death. That could really work!
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 7:53pm Report to Moderator
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I have been very strict with how I've judged and I've only given three recommends as per the old schedule. I passed on many because I didn't think they even attempted at "gothic" no matter how you want to interpret it. Hey, if someone made "french fries" into gothic and I could see it through context, they would have had me; so if you want my vote in an OWC from now on then at least try and do the theme.

Nevertheless, even after saying that, there was one script that I could argue on that point even in my own head, but it was so well written that I had to vote for it. Once the names are released, I'll get in touch with the author and I'll do the accolades thing-- probably on that waking up thread. See if they notice.  

I have seven considers. That's all I'm going to say for now because I don't want to sway anyone's vote.

Really nice job everyone. Even on the ones I had to pass on. Maybe even especially on the ones I had to pass on.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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jwent6688
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 8:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from greg
I'm making a guess: Balt wrote Open Casket.


I think Balt said he didn't enter at one point. Could be wrong. Was too busy drinking and trying to make a dent in his massive biceps at that point.

I'll guess DARRENJAMES... Not the SEELEY one. He came back not once, but twice to make points about that one. Just a guess... Wouldn't put it past Eoin either.

Then again, what did you write, Greg? .

James



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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 9:53pm Report to Moderator
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A new champion on my list has arisen. I did not think Casket could be unseated, but a contender emerged out of nowhere. A truly original script with real heart, one the SS community can be proud of. No idea who the writer is. Last Stop is the name of the script. It has some things that need to be maybe worked out on rewrite, but it's a powerful story. If you have not read it, check it out. It will hold you from the first word until the last.
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 9:57pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
A new champion on my list has arisen. I did not think Casket could be unseated, but a contender emerged out of nowhere. A truly original script with real heart, one the SS community can be proud of. No idea who the writer is. Last Stop is the name of the script. It has some things that need to be maybe worked out on rewrite, but it's a powerful story. If you have not read it, check it out. It will hold you from the first word until the last.


I wasn't going to do this. I was going to keep my choices a secret until the close, but in light of your comment, Kevin, I have to admit:

The Last Stop was one of my top three.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 10:04pm Report to Moderator
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I just edited my review, thinking I may have misinterpreted the ending a bit. If they are both dead, and they have separate tickets to the afterlife, it actually reminds me of my short The Station. Either interpretation, this jumps to the top of my list, despite things to be worked out still here. I guess me and you Sandra see things a little differently. A lot of reviews on this weren't so hot. Those of us that liked it seemed to really like it.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 10:36pm Report to Moderator
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What is this world coming to?

Unbeleivable...
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Baltis.
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jwent6688


I think Balt said he didn't enter at one point.


I entered a script -- But I wasn't able to start writing until the 14th at around 5 or so.  When I was told about the OWC I started checking back in on the site.  When the criteria was announced I had a story, but no time to write it as some personal matters came up which prevented me from being home much of the week.  When I finished the script at around 9 my time I had no time to do anything but cut and condense the story down from 22 pages to 12.

I didn't write it using Movie Outline
I didn't write it using my standard format of Cole & Haag
I also didn't use the proper font on my script

With all this considered, I'm very pleased with how it was received.  I literally go back through and read it and think, my god this makes no sense -- These pages need to be added back in.  

Either-way it was fun and the OWC's are my favorite events.  And my daughter just turned the big 2 today!!  We had a costume party and she was Dora... I was the meanest lookin' Jason around, by the way.  I'll upload a pic -- That's me gettin' ready to drop on my nephew, who came as a Libertarian upon my request.  

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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
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What do you mean Jeff?
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 10:56pm Report to Moderator
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What do I mean?  I mean I think you're crazy with your last few posts, as well as your post on "your new Heavyweight Champ".

First of all, you didn't even get teh title correct of your new fave. Then, you openly stated that you didn't know for sure what it was about, by using the word "assume".  Then, you wrote an edit with a different take on what went on.

Hey, we all have opinions.  I checked my review and see that I thought it had potential, but it was written poorly, didn't make sense, had lots of issues throughout.  In no way is this a champion IMO, but hey, nobody cares what I think, so you go support your new baby.
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Baltis.
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 11:07pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not openly going to say my pick, but I enjoyed "Last Stop".   I probably won't even state my favorite script or claim my own script to be honest... I like Anonymous OWC's for that reason.  We can write it, leave it and let it loiter about.  If it has a voice it'll speak to someone -- if it doesn't, no one will read it.
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 11:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from leitskev
A new champion on my list has arisen. I did not think Casket could be unseated, but a contender emerged out of nowhere. A truly original script with real heart, one the SS community can be proud of. No idea who the writer is. Last Stop is the name of the script. It has some things that need to be maybe worked out on rewrite, but it's a powerful story. If you have not read it, check it out. It will hold you from the first word until the last.


Last Stop. Not sure where I messed it up. But I also made clear in my review the title is not a grabber. If I made a mistake somewhere, certainly THAT does not make me "crazy", so let me move on to your next point.

You mention there is a problem in my assuming what the story is about, which means I am not sure what it's about. And how can one ever pick a story as a favorite if they are not sure of the meaning, right? Is that your point?

Some stories are meant to be subtle. They are meant to be figured out. They invite speculation. Many people have speculated about the end of Taxi Driver.

If a story is unclear because the writer is confused, that's one thing. For example, Falling Angels. The the young girl mentions to the priest "what have we done? The Lord seeks vengeance for our sins." But then later the girl is portrayed as your standard innocent virgin. The priest disbelieves in Hell at the same time he believes. Maybe I missed the meaning. But I suspect the writer himself was confused. Maybe meant to go in one direction with the girl, then went in another without realizing. Nothing invited me to speculate. I just think the story is muddled, no offense to the writer who displays some skill.

A story that purposely invites one to speculate what's going on is different. And I do think Last Stop should be made a bit clearer, but not much. Hitting us over the head with what happens would be a mistake, would ruin the experience. The idea that a story asks us to think about things certainly does not weaken it in itself.

Not sure why you're upset that someone likes a story. This was well written, too, certainly not poorly written. Was a slug or something off? I don't know. That really would have no impact on what I thought of it. I could easily follow action, the dialogue was next to flawless, and there was nothing that slowed the read. It was a gripping read, actually.

Nothing cookie cutter here. Original. A character with a clear goal. Stakes, urgency. And a sense of mystery. How many stories in this OWC can say those things? I'm not crazy. Well, maybe a little, but my review is not!


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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 11:27pm Report to Moderator
Of The Ancients


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Quoted from Baltis.
I'm not openly going to say my pick, but I enjoyed "Last Stop".   I probably won't even state my favorite script or claim my own script to be honest... I like Anonymous OWC's for that reason.  We can write it, leave it and let it loiter about.  If it has a voice it'll speak to someone -- if it doesn't, no one will read it.


Can I say, "Right on!" without dating myself. I'll answer myself with, "No, Sandra you can't".  

Mostly, I'm trying to wait to say much until the close of voting, but there's been a lot of talk in the threads and I think The Last Stop deserves a mention.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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leitskev
Posted: October 22nd, 2011, 11:48pm Report to Moderator
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2 stories are getting Recommends from me, is the bottom line. And I have 4 to read still. I try to be straight shooting with me reviews, and sometimes that means I have to be a little harsh. It feels good to be able to tell a writer they did great work.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 7:44am Report to Moderator
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Kevin, I mean no harm with my "crazy" comment, nor do I mean that literally.

Bottom line is that, IMO, one should not be using this thread to garner votes for their "favorite" script, just like one should not be knocking any script over and over as being the worst.  Just ain't fair or in the spirit of the challenge.

My reference to you misquoting the title is on the script's thread, in your "new Heavyweight HCampion" review.  You called it "Last Call", maybe harkening back to your bartending days.

If a script is ambiguous...in a good way...and is meant to be, that's fine.  Your review stated 2 completely different things about what the script was about,a dn IMO, that's not the characteristics of an awesome script.

But again, anyone can love any script or movie.  Maybe you're a big fan of "Paul Blart: Mall Cop"...who knows?

But again, besides a little call out to this script was good, that one was cool, IMO, no one should try to influence other votes or opinions.  Let the scripts speak for themselves...
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leitskev
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 8:13am Report to Moderator
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It would be wrong of me to call out a favorite if I knew the the writer. As I do not, I don't I've violated the spirit of the competition in any way. Late in the game, when most have finished their reads, is the time when people list their favorites or support a script. I also like to take a script that for some reason didn't get as many reads and give it a little boost, if it's a good script.

I very much doubt anyone's vote is even slightly influenced by my opinion. However, I might get someone to read the script who otherwise would not have. which is a good thing.

Clearly this script's ending was meant to be something the audience had to figure out. Otherwise the midget would have just explicitly explained everything to those who have no patience for such things as subtlety.

We all can be pretty harsh on scripts at times. It's good to call attention to scripts we like. And I think it's a good thing to try to make the reviews a little less tedious as well by having a little fun with them.

I'm sure when they come out with the horror version of Paul Blart it will make some folks happy.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 8:51am Report to Moderator
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Kevin, you know I have absolutely nothing against you and consider you a friend of mine.

My point is that campaigning for a script or against a script, isn't right, IMO.  A simple shout out?  Fine...dandy, even.  But long, detailed specific posts for or agaisnt scripts ain't cool IMO.
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Ledbetter
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 9:00am Report to Moderator
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Let's leave the lobbying to Washington and simply wait for the results.

Or at least until after breakfast.

My favorite is a Bagel with cream cheeze.

It's in my top 3...

Shawn.....><
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jwent6688
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 9:14am Report to Moderator
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Well, I'm guilty as Kevin then. I shot my mouth off about my favorite. to be honest, didn't see how it could offend anyone, and I certainly wasn't trying to lobby votes for its author, whom I do not know.

In hindsight, I guess maybe it could bother some people. This is the first time we've ever had this voting system in place. I just thought it was cool with the pass, consider, recommend aspect this time.

As far as guesses for others, I know many of the authors, so i didn't even put it out there. Almost feel like I'm outting them that way.

James


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c m hall
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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quote leitskev -
If a story is unclear because the writer is confused, that's one thing. For example, Falling Angels. The young girl mentions to the priest "what have we done? The Lord seeks vengeance for our sins." But then later the girl is portrayed as your standard innocent virgin. end quote leitskev

Here's another interpretation...
I read the "What have we done? The Lord seeks vengeance for our sins.  I heard his servants, evil ghosts..." lines as a sign of the girl's despair and confusion; she's in shock after seeing her family killed and she's trying to understand what seems to be the Lord seeking vengeance against humanity, a thing that has no place in Christianity, so she's trying to do the impossible and she knows it --

she must have had strong Faith before her family is killed because she still can't think beyond it,  the "we" in "what have we done?" is "we humans" at war, we've opened the gates to hell...

So, considering the circumstances of the girl's life, I think there's no reason to suspect that she's confessing to any particular sin, other than being a member of humanity.

Just my two cents, because I really loved this script.
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leitskev
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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Not campaigning for or against any scripts. Merely talking about scripts I like and WHY I like them. To me, that's a proper part of analysis, and an important way of learning what works and doesn't in shorts. It won't influence anyone's vote. Also, I do avoid talking about scripts whose author I know or find out about during the course of things.

Trying to bring a little color to reviews as well. Some like that, some don't. Makes it more interesting for me. People can killfile me if they don;t like the reviews.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 9:24am Report to Moderator
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I don't mean to cause trouble...I really don't.

My point is simple - if you want to throw out the name of some scripts you like, go for it, but that should be it, IMO.

Here, Kevin is literally piting 1 script up against another, and IMO, that shouldn't be done.

Revision History (1 edits)
Scoob  -  October 23rd, 2011, 9:58am
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 1:08pm Report to Moderator
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The scripts have been up over a week and most have 20-24 reviews from 38 scripts posted.

When you look at the reviews a handful come from regulars who have not even entered ( we think!)

I suppose not everyone can read them all and  I presume there were some new entrants who may feel un able to post reviews.

Is this ratio about right for previous OWC's?


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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greg
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 1:35pm Report to Moderator
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Oh Hi

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Quoted from Reef Dreamer
The scripts have been up over a week and most have 20-24 reviews from 38 scripts posted.

When you look at the reviews a handful come from regulars who have not even entered ( we think!)

I suppose not everyone can read them all and  I presume there were some new entrants who may feel un able to post reviews.

Is this ratio about right for previous OWC's?


At the moment it's 24.3 posts per script, which is a normal average, though the ratio may be a bit low.

For comparison sake, I pulled a Ray and calculated the last few OWC averages:

September - 30 scripts, 29.8 posts per
June - 16 scripts, 20.3 posts per
February - 33 scripts, 32 posts per
October 10 - 43 scripts, 26.8 posts per
May 10 - 28 scripts, 22.6 posts per

Interpret those figures as you will.  You take the total number of posts for the challenge (seen on the main board), subtract all non-script thread posts (figures seen on the OWC board), then divide that number by total number of scripts.  With more scripts there tends to be a larger range between the total number and the average as seen in last October's.  

Greg


Be excellent to each other
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leitskev
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 2:26pm Report to Moderator
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C M Hall(sorry, not sure of your name)

Excellent point, and it could be that she is referring to general sins of humanity that have led to such destruction. I still think there are perhaps times when this script is a little unclear which direction it wants to go, but we've all done that, especially when rushing against a deadline.

Jeff, when I put two scripts up against each other for my championship contenders, it was a complement to them both. Two excellent scripts that stood tall for me. And this was a way for me to have a little fun with it. IMO Open Casket is professional quality, Last Stop has magical originality. Both scripts represent this challenge extremely well. Last Stop did not get as many reads, so I wanted to make sure people were aware of it. And again, absolutely no idea who wrote it or even if they're around.

Personally, if you disagree with a review, I would avoid reacting with "what is this world coming to". "Crazy" is also an adjective to approach with caution.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer

When you look at the reviews a handful come from regulars who have not even entered ( we think!)


Since we're going there, I fit into this category.
If that helps with the statistics at all.

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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DarrenJamesSeeley
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 3:28pm Report to Moderator
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Answers to today's mind boggling questions:

What's this world coming to?
No, the world has long since been there. If it did change again, aside from Armegeddon, nobody would notice.  

Would  people enjoy Paul Bart Mall Cop if it was a horror film?
No. It already was.  



"I know you want to work for Mo Fuzz. And Mo Fuzz wants you to. But first, I'm going to need to you do something for me... on spec." - Mo Fuzz, Tapeheads, 1988
my scripts on ss : http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1095531482/s-45/#num48
The Art!http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-knowyou/m-1190561532/s-105/#num106
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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 3:37pm Report to Moderator
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Favourite scenes.

With 38 scripts I have already forgotten a fair amount yet it has been great to tuck into many different ideas.

I just wondered what everyone's favourite scenes were. It doesn't mean you thought them the best but with so much on offer there are things to remember.

I don't have my note pad to hand but remember the following ;

Ghosts playing cards.

A dining table debating a re occurring ghost.

A hall of mirrors with a dwarf nearby

An eight foot man with axe

Parachutes descending onto a graveyard

A mobile phone showing where the spirits are

A deformed manservant with his pretty ladies

Oh and who could forget a girl offering her cotton candy to a man!


What are yours?


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr

Revision History (1 edits)
Reef Dreamer  -  October 24th, 2011, 7:06am
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Ryan1
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 3:50pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Reef Dreamer


What are yours?



Since you asked, I think the only scene I'll really remember from this OWC will be the house choking the wife with curtains, and then the other guy saves the day by giving the house a rubdown.
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Pete B. Lane
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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I haven't had tons of time to read and review this week, so I'm catching up on as many OWC scripts today and tomorrow as I can. I won't get to them all, but I'm aiming for 15 or so. I want the comments I give to at least equal the number of comments I got.
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Ledbetter
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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Great job thinking of the "ONE TIME DROP" of all of the submissions.

Readers get to go through all of them at their pace to determine what is worth reading.

It raises an interesting question as to whether the first post helped to get momentum on a particular script or whether fresh minds prevailed.

There was no “Oh God, not another 10 scripts to read".

No burnout around the final turn.

With all scripts on the table, don't you think this truly levels the playing field?

Great idea Don; I think it was mentioned by Jeff and possibly some others posters on this concept.

It seems that even water was found as the scripts fleshed themselves out over the course of time.

To all, GREAT JOB on this OWC submission.

Shawn.....><
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 10:50pm Report to Moderator
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What if the Hokey Pokey, IS what it's all about?

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Quoted from Ledbetter
Great job thinking of the "ONE TIME DROP" of all of the submissions.



I agree with the "One Time Drop". It's a very good idea and it keeps all of the scripts on a level playing field, since "Reader Burnout" happens no matter how hard you try and give each script equal time.

One thing I've noticed (and I think it's just human nature) is that if one person happens to make a certain comment, others will follow suit if they happen to read the comments. That's why I used to NOT do that, but I have recently stopped that practice in every case because sometimes I feel like I need help because I feel like I'm a blind man in a dark room at times. When I feel that way, I will sometimes allow myself to read others feedback. When this happens, sometimes it's "Yeah, I felt that way too", but other times it's "Holy macro! I feel completely different!" So that raises an important point: Writers must be very discerning in how they interpret the crits because each critique artist is going to take your script in a little bit of a different direction.

As a writer and artist, you need to determine where you want to go with any script. A little thing can make a huge difference; so remain true to yourself despite what is "Our Noise".

On the memorable images:

I'll post more on this later but A Price to Pay had me when Jennifer kept returning to the old stain and the thrice closing of the lock. To me it was excellent and this script's visuals held strong in my memory. It was one of the reasons I placed it in my top three. What I'm thinking now is that it needs something in the title that will catch us more and be more memorable because I really do think it was a very good script.

Sandra



A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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mcornetto
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 11:16pm Report to Moderator
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I think it's good when people choose to repeat comments.  That gives you an idea of what really bothers people and isn't just someones pet peeve.  
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 11:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mcornetto
I think it's good when people choose to repeat comments.  That gives you an idea of what really bothers people and isn't just someones pet peeve.  


Yes. I've seen this with several scripts in the last challenge. One is criticized over and over again for too much expository, another for being too poetic, another for being too gratuitous... We must all remember though that one person's trash is another person's gold. My choices often do not meet with popular opinion which to me are often excruciatingly trivial. I guess if I'm going to find depth in scripts, it's going to have to be with those that turn up as those films debuting as special showings in the theatres on a Tuesday night.

Personally, I would like to see more scripts with meat on their bones.

Sandra




A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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mcornetto
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Sandra Elstree.


We must all remember though that one person's trash is another person's gold. My choices often do not meet with popular opinion which to me are often excruciatingly trivial.


You be preachin' to the choir, girl!
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Sandra Elstree.
Posted: October 23rd, 2011, 11:45pm Report to Moderator
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;
Quoted from mcornetto


You be preachin' to the choir, girl!





A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.
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CindyLKeller
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 10:09am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
What is this world coming to?

Unbeleivable...


Jeff, it is unbelievable. You're the one who  catches the spelling errors.  

Cindy


Award winning screenwriter
Available screenplays
TINA DARLING - 114 page Comedy
ONLY OSCAR KNOWS - 99 page Horror
A SONG IN MY HEART - 94 page Drama
HALLOWEEN GAMES - 105 page Drama
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leitskev
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 10:21am Report to Moderator
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I like the format of loading all of the stories at once. It's clear in other OWC's that the stories with the most views and posts tend to snowball. People who only have time to read some entries see those numbers and choose those. Which means those posted early get quite a few more reads.

When these posted, in the first day I made sure my first reads were those with 0 reviews. But eventually, after a few days, some stories still jumped ahead in reads. A week into it, I had a tendency to assume that those near the bottom in reads were weaker stories. I was wrong. I found two stories that had not got as much attention that were really well done. For whatever reason, they fell behind. It might be that their initial reviews were not positive so scared others off.

It also shows the power of title. These two stories I am referring to did not have titles that drew interest. And it's not that the titles were terrible. Given the context of their stories, the titles were appropriate, even good. But if the title does not draw an audience, in the end it fails. I've made that mistake several times.
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Electric Dreamer
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 10:36am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CindyLKeller


Jeff, it is unbelievable. You're the one who  catches the spelling errors.  

Cindy


I agree, it's a real challange to catch those spelling errors!

E.D.


LATEST NEWS

CineVita Films
is producing a short based on my new feature!

A list of my scripts can be found here.
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CindyLKeller
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 11:47am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Electric Dreamer


I agree, it's a real challange to catch those spelling errors!

E.D.


Hehehehe!


Award winning screenwriter
Available screenplays
TINA DARLING - 114 page Comedy
ONLY OSCAR KNOWS - 99 page Horror
A SONG IN MY HEART - 94 page Drama
HALLOWEEN GAMES - 105 page Drama
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leitskev
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 11:54am Report to Moderator
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Challange!!! I dare you, sir...or madame!
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Zanej
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 12:19pm Report to Moderator
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Just finished my re-write so hopefully it is a lot better then the original
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ReneC
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 12:59pm Report to Moderator
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No time to read more, just submitted my votes. I excluded my own entry, hope that's the protocol. If not, no biggie.

What a great friendly competition! As a newcomer to the OWC I'd like to thank those who set it up and those who participate, it's a tremendous tool for honing our skills. Keep it going, I plan on being a regular contributor.

ETA: If I didn't review your entry and you want me to, let me know.


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Reef Dreamer
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 1:12pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah I agree. So much to learn and think about in a matter of two weeks. Great stuff. Alas we have to wait until February for the next, or so I understand.

Is there going to be a "guess who thread", or have I missed something?

As this is only my second OWC I don't know what is normal.

Cheers


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
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mcornetto
Posted: October 24th, 2011, 7:58pm Report to Moderator
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Don will post a who wrote what thread that doesn't list the names, when he's ready.  That's usually when people start guessing.

In the meanwhile everyone should saunter over to this thread

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-collaborate/m-1319322298/

And sign up for the next exercise.  There's hasn't been a killer game in over a year and a lot of you have missed out on some great fun.
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TheUsualSuspect
Posted: October 25th, 2011, 12:28am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dreamscale
Usual Suspect, what can I say?  Why don't you go back and take a look at the detailed feedback I've given people for years, before you go complaining about my feedback.  I didn't submit an OWC script this time around, therefore, what I read, how much I read, and what I throw out in feedback is my perogative.


I know the type of feedback you give. You've given me some great feedback on my past scripts/entries.

I just found you to be ruder this time around.  



A Picture Is Worth

If you want me to read your script, send me a link.
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rdhay
Posted: October 25th, 2011, 12:52am Report to Moderator
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Location
Victoria, Australia
Posts
279
Posts Per Day
0.06
Woohoo! Only 6 reads left Having read so many of these, I really wish I'd submitted something. We need to have another OWC sooner than Feb, maybe a mini-OWC just for the people who *didn't* submit to this one:p

Although, maybe not...I'm pretty sure I'm the weakest writer of the non-submitters:p Yeah, scratch that idea.
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Dreamscale
Posted: October 25th, 2011, 8:25am Report to Moderator
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Please excuse the spelling errors.  My computer is not set up yet, and the one I'm on dose not have spell correct (anyone know how to turn it on?  I forget...).

But, as most should know, spelling in a post is nothing like spelling in a script.

Usual - Yes, I was "different" this time around, but as I posted a few times, it was because I did not submit a script for this OWC, and because of that I did not feel compelled to read all of every script, nor did I feel like I was abliged to post extensive feedback.

IMO, if someone quits reading early on, that should tell you something and alarm bells should go off.  Now, that's assuming there are reasons for one to stop reading, as I've had a certain someone(s) who just will not read any script I write for some uknown reason.

Looking forward to the reveals.  If anyone would like more detailed feedback on their script that I passed on, just let me know.
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RayW
Posted: October 26th, 2011, 1:02am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36

Quoted from greg
At the moment it's 24.3 posts per script, which is a normal average, though the ratio may be a bit low.

For comparison sake, I pulled a Ray and calculated the last few OWC averages:

September - 30 scripts, 29.8 posts per
June - 16 scripts, 20.3 posts per
February - 33 scripts, 32 posts per
October 10 - 43 scripts, 26.8 posts per
May 10 - 28 scripts, 22.6 posts per


LMAO!!!
H3ll, YEAH!
That's how you do it, G-Man!

Cool data.
Pretty good number of reads per script, eh?
I'm impressed at the dedication on reviewers behalf.

You guys are brutal, but you rock!


* * * * * * * *


Well, rubbish.

As predicted, I only got a few more reads and reviews in.


>> SPREADSHEET <<        and       >> BREAKDOWNS & COMMENTS <<



Pretty much just missed the folks who didn't claim a MPAA rating.
Sorry guys.
I'll get to you later, likely next week.
I enjoy the breakdown process. It's good for me. Hope some of you benefit from the process, as well.

G'nite!



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