Shark Dreaming by Bill Sarre (Reef Dreamer) - Short, Shark - After the death of his partner, a fisherman is tormented by a life changing decision he must make. - pdf, format

Best so far - having read all of two.

Writing's assured and well crafted apart from the slight on p.10 - "On floor the..."

Nice angle to come from, and pretty complicated to pull something like this off in a short.

I liked Jimmy stuggling to ride the bike and not giving up, and how this references Sharkie's internal turmoil.

Satifying twist at the end too, that took full account of the story.

I don't think there'll be many that are better than this.

Wow.  I did not get this at all.   Based on the above comment I'm actually gonna have to read it again.  

My apologies to the writer for such a useless review at this time.  On a positive note; formatting looked good.  

I'm just not too sure about the story.

I'm going to have to come back to this one... it starts well, really well written, I'm just not feeling the story, seems like nothing is happening. I'll come back and reread later.

This took a while to get going and it was a bit confusing. I liked the idea of the story...the name of the boat, tied into Sharkie's dreaming which led him to get rid of the boat and take care of Jimmy. It was a bit of a sleepy story though. Not much tension, not even with the shark looming over head. The ending felt a little too perfect and easy though.

Congrats on a good effort for this very challenging OWC.

My initial thoughts on this was I constantly tried finding something to latch on to. The writing, characters, plot...something. It appears to be written well, but was a chore to get through. I was anticipating the dream sequences to move the story further, some kind of revelation or excitement.

All I took from it is that Sharkie's life was at a low, and he found happiness in the end. I would like to hear the author's thoughts on the story, could push me to a further understanding. It wasn't bad at all, the plot just needed to be more engaging.

Solid effort,

Johnny

Really liked this. Had that nautical feel about it. Written by someone who knew what they were trying for, which doesn't happen all the time lol.

Couple of gripes - there is no actual shark attack but the dream menace was good

And the names Sharkie and Stevie are too similar looking which can detract from the read a bit. Obviously you have to keep Sharkie to go with the flow of the story so...sob...I guess Stevie is out.

Give this an 8

Great story about letting go of demons, a life spent creating memories, and the perseverance to push on when faced with the inevitable. I guess the moral that Sharkie had to ultimately grasp was; stasis equals death.

The metaphors, and the way you wove this story into Sharkie's inner turmoil, is just too complicated to be done by chance, or on an unconscious level that is.

Death is a very abstract concept in the distant future, and most would assume the older a person gets the more baggage they carry with them, toting a leviathan sack of memories in and out of consciousness. However, as with Sharkie, it would seem that there is always one demon that is just too demanding to put away, just yet, and it always shows up when we're at our most vulnerable.

This story handled this on an abstract and eloquent dimension, so much to the fact that all I can say is wow!

'SHARK DREAMING, a well used, shark fishing boat'

One too many commas in that. Normally I would not give a fig or a fuck but does take the wind out of the start.

Cos then you go 'A basic, wooden shack.'

Commas are important but they are best when used moderately. Like swear words. Bollocks.

Enough pedantry and preaching.

This is alright. Dialogue isn't bad. It rolls along. I do have this sinking feeling I've seen it all before, though.

I can't say I was quite as impressed as some previous commenters but yeah, wasn't bad at all.

R

Your first page, you repeat unnecessary words sentence after sentence which makes the writing come across as repetitive. Avoid it for an easier read.

Page 7, too much exposition/talking and not enough story building. We want to see the character progress through the narrative instead of sitting on his arse all day.

Strange ending, I suppose I was actually expecting him to go out to sea once more and face the shark that supposedly killed his friend. Would've made for an interesting story, a lot more adrenaline inducing than the script is now. And it's not bad per se in its current state. Don't get me wrong, it has depth, even though the dialogue and writing stumbles quite a few times, that's fine too, it's just plain boring watching a guy trying to overcome his fear.

I'm not sure what to say really. It's different, and I suppose you handle it well in one way. A strange addition to this OWC, I wouldn't say I liked it but I do appreciate the what you were going for. Might have to dwell on this one but I think it might grow on me as I read more entries. Good effort.

Not a great beginning, the way you chose to word and write your first few passages.  Extra commas, repetitive words taken directly from your Slug.

I personally don’t like how your formatted your dream scene, mostly because the way you did it, you have to have “BACK TO PRESENT DAY” in your following Slug and that’s not really correct, nor does it read well.

Page 4 – pretty dull so far and the dialogue isn’t quite working for me.

Some more comma problems going on.  You should look into how they’re used as it really does hurt the read.

Page 8 – I’m really bored with this, but I’ll go on…

Why would you use an action wrylie in Jimmy’s speech about someone other than the speaker?

You have an odd writing style that doesn’t work for me, with your commas and run-on sentences.

Well, this was dull and IMO does not even attempt to meet the challenge.  The only shark attack here is in dialogue only.  Just too repetitive and slow for me.

Congrats on entering.

This is really, very good. There’s not a lot I can say other than I think the conversation between Randolph and Sharkie is more interesting in retrospect. The first time through it’s just kind of happening. It’s a mystery, but not a very engaging one.

Maybe if there were less politeness. Randolph’s getting tired of waiting, and Sharkie hasn’t promised squat. They’ve been in a holding pattern for way too long and both of their nerves are getting frazzled.  That could make the opening more engaging without giving anything away.

Perhaps Sharkie should be stand-offish around Jimmy; not wanting to get too close. Reluctant to interact on a personal level, but clearly interested from afar. I think this would increase a couple types of conflict and give Sharkie a longer arc.

But once again, this is really, very good as it stands. One of my favorites so far.

Congrats on completing the OWC

P.S. Coke the soda is capitalized, coke the drug is not.

Strong images. Good character. Nice message.

The dream sequences worked for me. The dark shadow hanging over him, awake or dreaming. It hints at his past. His guilt. I also liked the mystery of the envelope.  The layers of his haunting memory from steve to jimmy. Pretty heartbreaking. Especially the nightmare image of jimmy swimming away. This short was surprisingly poetic.

I would consider renaming the boat. It stands out too much in comparison to the subtle methods. I wonder if you could allude to another appropriate name. Maybe refering to god of dreams or something. VisionQuest. Orpheum. Jung @ Heart. Hehehe.

I know shark dreaming is appropriate for this time in his life, but what about earlier in life with steve on board? Why did he chose it? Well, maybe I'm nitpicking. As is the name is to on the nose, as they say.

The shark is a metaphor for so much in such few pages. Great job balancing emotions and memories.  

It would have been easier to take a more obvious and melodramatic approach but I appreciated the subtlely and the sure hand of your brushstrokes.  Good job writer.

Hello.

Good social drama. I'm open for such stories. Always welcome. You used the shark theme more as a living surrounding for the characters which is fine. The theme is there and the black shadow in the dream sequence must be the rogue shark here- You see, there's not much to say from my side...

Just good, just good.

I enjoyed this. A light hearted story with a happy ending. I thought you handled the dream sequences very well. Little action but satisfying. It's possible Sharkie saw a little of himself in Jimmy which prompted him to adopt him at the end? Maybe I'm wrong on that. Great job.

Congrats on completing the OWC.

Wow I’m amazed out how many of these are so well written. This one was a breeze to read. Your title is awesome. I love the way it relates to the story.

You do a great job at giving us just enough backstory without giving too much or it feeling like backstory. It creates a mystery as the story unfolds while reading.

I think the dreams were done well. I really love the way they escalate each time. And I love how he seemed to learn from his dreams and make a life changing decision.

Great story. Really good writing. In my top three.

what I liked:

A good attempt to dig into the character and to delve into human emotion. We don't see many character pieces in OWCs, especially when the theme is Jaws.

The writing was generally good. Sometimes the dialogue with Randolph threw me and I wasn't sure what was being said. That could be the beer in me at the moment.

what could be worked on:

There's no real shark attack unless I missed it. In fact, there really is no shark, is there? There's the Shadow of a shark in his dreams, representing an unconscious fear about moving forward. I'm not sure if a shark shadow from the depths of the subconscious really meets the criteria of the challenge. I would say it would be ok if we were lead for most of the story to believe it was real...but we always know it's a dream. There is never even a threat of shark. Do they even leave land? Other than the swim at the end.

My main problem was that nothing happened. In an OWC that's supposed to be about shark attacks, it all takes place in a guy's shack, where he drinks, talks, dreams, drinks, talks, dreams again. I mean I'm all for taking a sentimental cruise if at least something is going to happen at the end...but it never does. He gets a letter.

We're happy to see him end up with the boy..though there is no indication he wants this. And now that I think about it, do we want a boy to end up with a drunk in a shack? I guess we do because we sense both their loneliness.

This is a very bright writer, so whoever it is we're lucky to have him/her in the OWC. The writer likes to dig deep and think carefully. Excellent. But something has to happen, too. I mean at the very least, establish early on that the kid and Sharky should end up together, get us wanting to see that happen. Also, if that is the goal, then Sharky should maybe DO something to earn it. Other than open the hatch in a dream...and get a letter...and decide to keep the boat(too late?)

I probably missed stuff. Sorry. Tired. Maybe I will come back tomorrow to it, definitely a quality writer.

I struggled to read this. Maybe I'm rushing, I've read so many and I'm not giving this the attention it deserves but although it's well written I'm not getting it or getting into it.

The dream sequences, the melencholy - it's hard work and my mind isn't latching onto anything.

I can't judge if this is any good or not, need to have a rest from reading scripts and come back later.

Congratulation on entering the OWC and sorry my review isn't helpful at all!

20. Shark Dreaming - After the death of his partner, a fisherman is tormented by a life changing decision he must make.
Brief - A guy gets over a recent death to make a decision about the future of the living.

Characters to Animate/Voice - 3
Sharkie, Randolph, Jimmy
Scenes to Build  - 3
Shak, Store, under the ocean
Accessory Visual - average
Accessory Audio - average

Genre & Marketability - Drama
Script format - Fair
Comments  -  ChuckleMAO! As I look over the whole screenplay why are there several lines in bold in this? (Rhetorical). Please don’t do that. Okay, I’m starting to read this, now... I just read the first and second scenes and am scared that the time to produce all this detail is going to be cost prohibitive.
     Alright, before I even attempt to figure out some of the production cost of this I kinda skimmed over the subsequent six pages and I’m not going to do this as is. Essentially I’m out on the first page or two. It’s too… difficult + time consuming to do this right. Technically it could be done simply, just a whole lot of simple. But maybe I can make this MORE simple.
     The story itself: Heartfelt. It’s beautiful. You did good here.
     Biggest problem is that this existential drama content is real hit-or-miss on the festival circuit. And that’d be a lot of time invested for possibly no payoff.
     Oh, BTW, you failed to meet the “rogue shark attack” criteria.
Final word - Consider. This would be a special project that makes no business sense.

10/15           Lo/Hi Estimated Build Hours per Screen Minute
x 10.8          Screenplay Pages
= 108/162     Total Build Hours Time Cost

It's clear to me that some people are rushing through these entries. I think this was a breeze to read and perfectly understandable...should the reader take the time to finish it in one sitting without interruption.

This is a clever entry, my second favorite of the bunch (one great entry after the other). It's got the boat, the shark, the shark attack (smartly mentioned through dialogue), and a story worth telling.

I could see where the script was going by page 7, but I wasn't disappointed. It's a happy conclusion, after all.

Great job, and congrats on successfully completing the challenge.

Chris

'Shark Dreaming' writer,

You've got a subtly beautiful story here.
I don't see it as a pop-corn gobbing audience crowd pleaser, but I do see it as a "you gotta be in the right mood to appreciate it" work.

Now, to execute this in animation style I'd have to apply a technique I've no experience in but would like to try in order to render the scenes as gently as I envision them.
Actually, there's two different ways I could do this.
They'd be notably different from what I've done in the past, so there's some genuine learning curve involved on my behalf.

So, what do we have?
A powerfully understated story with a limited audience.
A pair of execution options I'd have to invent from scratch. (Quality controls for these are the biggest hassle, BTW.)

And it would take weeks of work. Well over a month, honestly. Likely two.
And what would we have... ?! Eh... Trash or treasure, likely.

I'm still interested, though.

If you're pretty sure you've got nothing better to do with this story I'd like to get in touch with you to discuss what my animation technical limitations are and how you could consider tailoring a variant of this story to accommodate those limitations for production into an animated short for festival submission, ideally for the 2015/16 circuit, but... I'd really have to get some solid limited viewing feedback to see if the results warranted the known expenses of festival entry fees.

If you feel it's appropriate to hold onto this for a while, shop it around to more credentialed entities, then by all means gopherit!

Just know that this open offer is here, now and for down the road.


Sincerely,
Ray



P.S. For the writer's poll this is the other entry that got one of my two recommends, as well as my reader's vote.

A lot of good stuff here, Bill. A little light in shark killing, but nice to see writers try to create characters of depth.

Thanks all for the reviews.

Issues with this script;

1] lack of shark attack - yup, hands up. Alas this was the story that came to me so i knew as i entered it that it would struggle on that criteria.

2] Its too slow - i agree and i don't. Err...what i mean is that i agree it is a slower script and needs boosting, which i am doing, but at the same time i think the visuals of the dreams, the tension within those, coupled with the normal life etc would drive this along.

My revised script has a different structure, hopefully this keeps it more engaging and dynamic.

Ray - many thanks for the offer. i will PM you the revised script. Before your offer i was seeing what i could squeeze out of this for competition entry. Doesn't mean a production can't be working in parallel if ok. Lets see.

All in all a good OWC

Cheers

Personally, I liked how you presented the shark.

I should have known this was yours. First clue...the title. Duh. Dreamer. A few of us should have caught that. But also your knack for creating a dreamy atmosphere. I'm sure you'll nail the pacing in the rewrite. I loved how it all tied in together at the end.

I'm here for reads when you're ready!

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Ray - many thanks for the offer. i will PM you the revised script. Before your offer i was seeing what i could squeeze out of this for competition entry. Doesn't mean a production can't be working in parallel if ok. Lets see.

Sounds good.
re parallel: Agreed.

Just read the revised draft. And I'm really starting to draw some interesting conclusions about this business. More on that after, first the script.

It's very fine work! The new draft certainly addresses the issues some of us had. It's a very smooth read, very well written, story well crafted.

It also occurs to me that the old draft may in fact have been better than I realized. So my new appreciation for the story comes in part from the improvements, and in part from already knowing the story. Hard to tell which weighs more.

This goes to the heart of a very big problem with screenwriting. It's generally not a good format for reading a story. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't, not through any fault of the writer, but rather because certain stories are harder to read in this form.

For example, here, when first reading, we kind of don't know much of what's going on with the boy and the will. In a well constructed film, that's less of an issue, as we have plenty of visual stuff to keep us busy while the story builds and reveals itself eventually.

In a script, it's not fun, because while you are trying to picture images that you are absorbing in words, and at the same time you are trying to figure out the story. Even in perfectly written scripts, it can be tedious.

Which makes me wonder if we're all going about this wrong. Maybe we should be writing short stories that would be easy to translate into a script if a producer wanted. Because what we really want is to be able to give the producer a vision of what the story will look like in film. Short stories do a much better job of conveying story than scripts do.

Look at the OWC. Readers regularly misconstrue scripts all the time. I do it too. Reading a script can be a damn chore, some times to no fault of the script.

Anyway, it's excellent work Bill! Really is. I don't really have anything to add this time.

Many thanks Kevin, appreciated.

Sometimes when you are close to a script it's difficult to see whether the changes you make have been as effective as you wish because you know it too well.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Maybe we should be writing short stories that would be easy to translate into a script if a producer wanted.

...or maybe we should write it in Chinese, but only Chinese that is easily translatable into French.

The point is, that a script isn't a story in the same way that a short story or novel is. And therefore nor should it be written so. A script is a plan of action. I once read that there is an odd group of people who actually read scripts... purely for the fun of it. Disgusting.

A script is your story, in a format that is ready and willing to be filmed. So write a short story, and then if you want it to be filmed, either get somewone to adapt it or adapt it yourself.

And this brings us back to your unfilmables - you can have these is any amount you wish - but should you want to translate it to a visual medium, then you'll have to temper your apetite for them where they don't lend themselves at all to the visual medium.

If you enjoy reading scripts, then you're odd. The intent is that they be film.

Simon, I've always respected you. Your post seems filled with attitude for some reason. Possibly it was this: maybe we should write it in Chinese, but only Chinese that is easily translatable into French. I mean why be silly if someone is merely making a conversational point? It seems unnecessarily disrespectful and didn't add anything to the discussion. I will keep my point respectful.

Just coincidentally, this was in scriptshadow today.

"So yesterday I saw Leonardo Dicaprio sign onto yet another book adaptation. And I can’t help asking, why do these big actors keep choosing these book adaptations over spec screenplays? It’s not always because the books have built-in audiences. I doubt The Reverent has sold a hundred thousand copies.

The more I look into it, the more I realize it’s because in a book, you can be right there in a character’s head with him. That kind of access moves people in a way scripts have a hard time doing. In scripts, you can only develop character through choices, actions, and interactions. You don’t have that first-person advantage a book does. And when Leo signs onto a project like this, I think he’s playing that big thick character whose head he jumped into in the book."

Of course a script is not the same as a short story, Simon. Not the point.

What is a spec script?

A spec script is basically a story you are sending out to film people in the hopes that it will impress someone enough for them to want to film it. That's all it is.

What matters...and it's ALL that matters...is that someone likes the story and wants to film it.

In theory, you could market a graphic novel, a comic book, whatever.

Mostly the way it's done, I expect, is none of these things. The usual way is for an established writer to talk to a studio exec, a director, maybe an actor and say these are my movie ideas. If he hits on one, they sign a contract and a script is written.

That's a very different thing than shopping a spec script...or spec story if we can call it that.

You indict your own logic with your conclusion: if one enjoys reading scripts than they are odd.

Exactly!

Scripts are a form that is not enjoyable to read. Which makes it...what? harder or easier to get someone to like their story?...it makes it harder.

And it's all about getting someone to like your story!

Once that happens, writing the script is the easy part.

The relevant question...which you didn't ask...is whether producers,etc. who are looking for original stories to film will look at short stories or novellas or novels. I can't answer that.

But look at Scriptshadow today. That story bought by DiCaprio was based on the book, which according to Carson was not a best seller. Somehow that book got into Dicaprio's hands.

And more films are made from novels than pure spec scripts!

It seems to me that in this field...and in life in general...people should be willing to ask questions and think outside the box. Yeah, the box is a comfortable place, some people are afraid to leave it, but what harm in at least thinking and asking questions?

If more original movies...and my understanding is it's many times more...come from novels than from spec scripts, isn't it logical to wonder if prose is a better way to market a story you have? Especially in the era of free kindle marketing?

As far as unfilmables...and I have no idea why you brought that up here except maybe it was simmering for you for some reason. But don't listen to me on the subject! Why should you? I'm nothing. However, I've provided a link to an article in GOITS, the Black List blog. Scott has been doing this a long time and has interviewed a lot of industry people. Doesn't that seem like a good source to you?

And no one...no one...is advocating going crazy with unfilmables. I barely use them...but I use them. Because again...the goal is not to create a blueprint for a film. It's not. That's a misconception. Not unless you've already sold the story. The goal is to write in a way which gets someone to want to make the film. To see it in their mind. If asides help with that, then they are useful.

BACK TO BILL'S SCRIPT

I realized yesterday that part of the problem with Bill's fine script had more to do with the screenplay format than with the story. And it occurred to me that it might be possibly true that sometimes...sometimes...prose would do a better job of getting someone to see the story as something worth filming.

And the whole point is to get someone to see your story as worth filming.

As it did with the DiCaprio project Carson reviewed today.

As it probably does a lot more than screenwriters recognize.

I don't need to convince you. I is, however, my hope that colleagues can discuss these things in a friendly and respectful way. You never know when an idea from Left field will help one of us in some way. If my discussions annoyed you, I feel a little badly, because I always liked and respected you. But it's not going to stop me from being honest with my opinions and thinking outside the box when I can.

Hi Kev. Sorry if I came across wrong in my previous post - that wasn't my intention. I guess I did find some of what you wrote to be a little bit odd though - but then we're all entitled to our opinion.

As far as making a film go, though, there are many ways that you can go about that process - as you note that many films are based on novels (not too sure 'most' films are done this way - wouldn't mind seeing your sources there).

What I don't get is why you would write a short story/novel when it is your intent to film the finished result? This is partially my point with unfilmable and the difference in the disciple of the two forms.

It does sound to me like maybe you want to just pitch story ideas? This is quite a valid route to go down if you wish, and you can do 2 pagers or 10 pagers, go down a development route etc and work out some interest in the story, develop ideas, get people involved long before the script is actually written -- and lots of films are done this way, people who have pitched story ideas, got interest, and then need the script written. It just seems to be a diversion to write a novel/short story with the intent of turning it into a script, and that diversion would take you into territory that is not useful for the end product (i.e. the unfilmables).

If you wanted, you could just write a story outline/step outline and see if there's any interest in the ideas that you have - maybe we should have a section on here for story ideas so that they can be hammered out before people commit to the full thing?

If you go to pro readers for coverage, they'll often complete a treatment for you, and this is what you can try and sell - well, there's nothing wrong in writing a treatment before you write the script - we could put treatments up here - again, helping to develop the key story concept before writing the script.

So there's a whole number of ways of doing this without resorting to novels - nothing wrong with novels, but they're written for their own purpose, and then have to be adapted, and that of course can be quite tricky, with all the past tenses, and chopping down that you have to do. I'm not saying don't do it as there are some advantages -- a bloke called Richard Garrison changed his screenplay into a novel in order to give it a more expansive feel, and as a technique for then selling the script - he also figured that he'd be in a better position as a published author and it'd lend him a bit of gravitas. I don't now if it worked, mind.

Valid debate going on here, even if on the wrong thread.

As I see it;

1) lots of films are made from novels or short stories, as Kevin pointed out, the later often from famous writers like Philip Dick, or whatever his name is

2) that medium gives the writer much more latitude than we are given, so could be useful in selling it to the directors, actor etc

So, should we do more than a script?

Well, I for one won't because I'm crap at writing proper words etc  I feel as if I know story and character but I couldn't write a novel about it. My mate, double Oxbridge, writes so beautifully but can't see the story. Hey you have to work with what you were given.

Script writing is a hard medium, IMO. We are so constrained and we have to HOPE than the reader saw the same image as we did.

Take Shark Dreaming. Now 14 pages, was 11. (Simon if you are interested I can forward a link) Not a long film really.

In the original, four dreams take place in the watery underworld, totally contrasting with the rough and ready upper world. To me that was a visually powerful contrast. BUT...and I totally get this because I do it myself, the readers skimmed along and it came across as slow. I have corrected this.

In a novel of short story, as Kevin suggested, this contrast, the pain experienced, the thoughts within, could all be explored more deeply.

The irony is that we promote this, ie scripts, as visual medium but written in a convention form. Chalk and cheese.

Cheers folks

Cool. This is at least a worthy and interesting discussion now. Very much so, I think.

Regarding Bill's script: the dreams were not at all the problem. The problem was that we didn't at all know what the character wanted. We didn't know what the spine of the story was. As it turns out, that spine is his accepting responsibility for his deceased friend's son. But we have no clue that is even the issue until near the end. That to me was the problem. We were on a ride without having any sense of what the story was about.

In fact, in the first draft, I think for a page or 2 I wasn't sure who's kid the boy was. It's clearer in the second draft I think...or maybe that's just because it was a second read for me.

So it seemed like the guy's problem was saving the boat...or maybe recovering the will to move on. But all he did was dream and drink and dream some more, so it was hard to understand. I now know he was struggling with a great decision, and the shark dreams helped him through the process, through his fears.

The writer Simon mentioned, I wonder if he sold the story to a producer after publishing the novel.

I don't know the stats, but we all know Hollywood prefers to buy projects they can adapt. Graphic novels, novels, comics and even games. What we always hear is the reason is because there is a built in market that already exists to build on. Makes sense.

But turns out there might be more to the story.

And I had already been thinking about this for a few weeks, and posted the idea in this thread. Then Carson wrote his blog about the piece DiCaprio bought, and Carson felt the book could not have had a substantial market. He believed the story was just much easier for DiCaprio to get a sense of in prose than he would have in a script.

If that's true, doesn't it make sense to at least consider it?

Have you guys ever looked into e-books on kindle? Let's say Bill had ten short scripts, preferably all in one genre. Now let's say he put them in prose form, and they ended up being pretty good stories, and he packaged him in an anthology. That could be published on kindle at no cost to Bill. He could sell it for nothing...or even smarter probably sell it for .99.  If he starts to sell a few, and people leave positive reviews, the book will get some traction.

Unless it really takes off, at that price he won't make much money(at that price he would get 35 percent). However, he might build a little bit of a market for himself.

He could then go to film producers and say he had an anthology of short stories, which he also has in script form, and it's built up a bit of a following. It gives him one more angle to market his work.

And kindle marketing has other advantages. Let's say one of those stories proved particularly popular based on feedback. He could then write sequels or a novel based on the short. And this would be poised to do well. And therefore also be poised to market to studios as a script.

Picture you are a director or actor thumbing around for stories. As Simon said, scripts are not fun to read. If someone sent you a package of short stories that were written with filming in mind, might you be more tempted to read through them? Since it might be less torture? Even better if you can package this with some cool graphics that give a sense of the story.

My points were this:

1) screenplays don't always present the story or character in the best way for the story to be appreciated. Ultimately a film needs a script, but first it needs someone to love the story.

2) there are ways open to us to reach the industry that weren't there before. Obviously places like Simplyscripts is one, and email. But there are other mediums such as kindle and even youtube. You might even publish an anthology of short stories on kindle and then tack in some of them the screenplay form so the reader knows what you can do.

Why limit one's thinking? It's like with the asides. Yeah, there's a simple logic to a rule which says nothing which can't be filmed should be in the script. But when you go to pro scripts and find that  literally every single one does this to a degree, is it still logical to insist on this as a rigid rule? Or do you owe it to yourself to see if there are ways that asides can be another tool you can use?

If you've read my work, and I'm not saying it's great or anything, but you won't see writing that is novelistic...except perhaps from an extremist perspective. To the extent there are asides they are sprinkled in and don't take up much space. Action lines are rarely if ever over a line or two.

The same applies to other rules. Active verbs are generally preferable to passive...but not always. However, there are boat loads of amateur writers that obsess over cleaning their scripts of these things. Same thing with the word "is" and with adverbs.

The purified scripts that result are invariably awkward. They just are not good writing, and I don't see how that ever helps a script's chance.

When I challenge people on this and ask them to name just one pro script that looks like this, they reply the pros don't know how to write, and that just because they write that way it doesn't make it "right". And they can't name one pro script that conforms to their rules in a way they approve...not one.

Well, I don't know who would want to follow those generals into battle, but that's for each writer to decide. I personally advise that a write collect all the evidence and weigh it himself.

Patience.

I think this is key. In regards to mysteries and pacing. Not a lot of readers are patient. The slow lead of answers turns off some. Shark Dreaming requires patience.  I rather enjoy the slow build and reveal. Some just want more oomph more frequently.

It's too bad readers won't always participate and co-create this reality. The moments were scripts breathe and settle, and layer themes, is not interesting for some. They want the show me stuff right away. It is only later, much later, or upon a second read will they consider what the point is. The message. The theme. The character's thought and motivations. The task of suggesting these elements in a script is an art in itself.

In regards to the format debate. Each have benefits.  Scripts are easier to write. Sure they may have restrictions,  like access to the internal and page limitations, but they don't require flowery prose.

Real writing is in novels. They are the masters of words. Screenplay writing is simple and concise, stylistically.

The story, characters and concept are always hard. Despite format.

The legends are novelists, not shory story auteurs. Granted movies have only had like a century. The difficulty of standing out in another format like a novel would be much more difficult.

Screenplays get rewritten by many writers. Concept is king. But novels  are primarily written by one very powerful voice. Then adapted into a movie by 3 or 4 folks taking a stab at it. Hehehe.

A worthy debate. Try every format. If you love your ideas, expand them.

Either way writing should be your love the art of expression and the value of entertainment.  The focus on money should come next.

Great ideas and opinions here...

Edited: I think this seems to have lost a bit of soul to it?

"It's the kind of place for those who want to escape the
pressures of the real world." doesn't really belong.

I recall someone explaining computer drum machines to me a while back saying that they are more accurate than human beings, but because humans don't repeat the exact beat every time, and make minor errors, this gives the human work a character that the drum machine doesn't have - this is what sprang to mind.

I think I prefer some of your errors as you were in the moment when you wrote them -- now you've the opportunity to stand back and clean them up, it's more clinical, less characteristic.

Let me think about it and give it another read through.

No idea why Simon thinks I'm with him on this one. I liked the re-write. I didn't sense anything but improvement.