SimplyScripts Discussion Board
Blog Home - Produced Movie Script Library - TV Scripts - Unproduced Scripts - Contact - Site Map
ScriptSearch
Welcome, Guest.
It is March 28th, 2024, 12:06pm
Please login or register.
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login
Please do read the guidelines that govern behavior on the discussion board. It will make for a much more pleasant experience for everyone. A word about SimplyScripts and Censorship


Produced Script Database (Updated!)
One Week Challenge - Who Wrote What and Writers' Choice.


Scripts studios are posting for award consideration

Short Script of the Day | Featured Script of the Month | Featured Short Scripts Available for Production
Submit Your Script

How do I get my film's link and banner here?
All screenplays on the simplyscripts.com and simplyscripts.net domain are copyrighted to their respective authors. All rights reserved. This screenplaymay not be used or reproduced for any purpose including educational purposes without the expressed written permission of the author.
Forum Login
Username: Create a new Account
Password:     Forgot Password

SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    One Week Challenge    October 2013 One Week Challenge  ›  Willow's Bewitchment - OWC
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 1 Guests

 Pages: « 1, 2, 3 : All
Recommend Print
  Author    Willow's Bewitchment - OWC  (currently 4519 views)
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 12:00am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36

Quoted from KevinLenihan
Jeff, in this post you have not been a dick. I'm not sure how this helped Ray in any way, though.
Nah, he's fine.
You're fine.
It galvanizes my convictions that you guys are writing literature and have little regard for actually getting a story filmed.
You have sh!t tons of know-how for writing award winning competitive screenplays.
Nuts. Bolts. Most of this stuff ya'll fret over doesn't matter.


Beginning writers, and I know that does not apply to Ray, Meh... It might. I get dinged on some pretty consistent stuff. tend to use what I call the Mr. Potato Head approach to introducing characters. They struggle to describe the character, so they grab a head and start attaching stock physical characteristics: height, weight, hair color.
Oh, no. No they don't.
Nube writers INCESSANTLY make ridiculous intricate descriptions of their mythic cartoon-esque characters.
And in real life there's no possible way to cast someone for all of these ridiculous particulars. Irregardless of budget.
A. It's not necessary.
B. It's just stupid.


And they proceed to do this with most of their characters. And as Ray said, you like auburn hair, substitute. These characteristics are interchangeable.
You wouldn't believe how pointless they truly are.
But you gotta give a reader/director/producer a little bone to hold onto.
Less really is more - and why I choose to go with rudimantary stock character descriptions.

It's kinda like being a cop in a cruiser looking for a shooter from three blocks over: white/black/hispanic male/female, age, shirt, pants, hat, direction.
Dispatcher doesn't tell the officers "White female, 40s, subtly attractive in that busy mom kind of way"
ROTFLMAO!
WHAT would those two poor officers in the cruiser say if that came over the radio?!
LMAO!


That's how many amateur scripts look. No pro scripts look like that.
Hmm... You don't say.
Pro scripts for what, exactly? Competition or production?
Shall we go over to imsdb.com and pull up twenty or so screenplays <5yrs old? Do a little digging?

TOO BAD!
ALREADY DONE DID DAT!
BOO-YAH! LOL!

Seriously. Intro descriptions don't matter a whole lot in any practical sense.


The example I gave above does not have an aside in it, unless one has such a ridiculously narrow version of what an aside it that "busy mom" is considered unfilmable. If that's the case then that's so absurd there is literally no hope and I'm wasting my time. Good luck with that.
Okay.

As far as pro scripts, it's not my position that every pro script is well written. But it IS my position that most of them are far superior to amateur scripts, and I've read a lot of both. In fact it's downright laughable for amateurs in the ranks to be sitting down here snidely laughing at successful pros who have written numerous scripts and experienced success. In any other profession that would be a joke.
Okay.

But everyone should do what they think works best. I'm not twisting anyone's arm. Do as you see fit.
Cool.
Super.
You're working too hard at gilding your lilies.






Logged
Private Message Reply: 30 - 44
Dreamscale
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 9:14am Report to Moderator
Guest User



Ray, you are one unique dude, and I mean that in a good way.  You are very amusing with your responses and I always get a kick out of the way you say things.

BUT...

You also have a very unique take on screenwriting and movie making, and that, I can't say in a good way.

Listen, bro, we all know there are 15 sides to every coin and some stand on this side, and others on that side.  There are pluses and minuses on all 15 sides.

BUT...

There is always a best of all worlds, in which you can please the vast majority of the peeps, and to be able to do that, you have to be able to nail the writing and to be able to do that, you have to understand the basics and what's wrong with this and why it's wrong.

So...

Your opening line - "Under a full moon and clear sky soulless zombies shuffle
across the fields." - Missing a comma between "sky" and "soulless"

Opening Slug is EXT, so how does this line work within this EXT Slug?  "But WILLOW, 20’s, thin, blond, and organic, watches them from the safety of her SUV without amusement."  That is not an EXT shot.

The whole thing about the SUV moving or not is a problem because you didn't properly set the scene and show the SUV moving down the "COUNTRYSIDE ROAD" - instead, you showed things in "the fields" and "the forest", neither of which are on the "COUNTRYSIDE ROAD".

I could go on but there's no reason to.

You question Kevin and I on if you gave us a camera and a map, blah, blah, blah, could we shoot the scene based on what's in the script, and the answer would be, sure we could, but each film would be very different because we'd be guessing throughout.

You seem to "prefer" scripts that are easily filmable and cheaply filmable to those that are well written and require more laborious shoots.  And that's fine if that's what you want to do, but that's not what most real writers want from their scripts...at least not this writer.

If the parameters call for a low or no budget script, anyone could write to that, I hope.  But if that isn't a parameter, scripts should not judged by that.

It should never come down to which script would be the easiest and cheapest to shoot. It should be which script would make the best movie.

Peace out, brother.
Logged
e-mail Reply: 31 - 44
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 9:43am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36
Disagree, but fair enough.

Karma peace right back atcha, Bruh.



Logged
Private Message Reply: 32 - 44
KevinLenihan
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 9:46am Report to Moderator
Been Around


Posts
528
Posts Per Day
0.13
I guess it depends on one's purpose. If you are writing on assignment or writing to shoot your own stuff, it doesn't really matter.

But few people here are in that position. And even those that are, it pays in the long run to learn how to write effectively.

Jeff may not acknowledge this, but one thing we completely agree on is that the goal should be develop the most effective writing we can. We differ in our interpretation in what that takes, but the goal remains the same.

If one is trying to write a script that they intend to shop, Ray, a script is NOT a blueprint. A real estate agent does not sell blueprints, he sells houses. And even if it's to be built on an empty lot, they don't showcase a blueprint...they showcase and architectural drawing which shows what the house will look like.

A writer is not selling a blueprint. He's selling a story...one which he hopes someone thinks will make a good film.

The writing technique you want to employ is whatever it takes to get that reader...who is endlessly pouring over a mountain of scripts...to be sucked in by your story. No trick is too cheap in that effort if it works.

It has nothing to do with writing literature. You are bringing a preconception to this argument. The intro I quoted from a pro script was not literature. It's short and to the point.

I've read truly novelistic scripts, and I don't at all advocate it. But not because of some rule book or guru guide. It's a problem because it slows the read.

However, when people see a couple of words of description and they start shouting "novelisitic!", their reason for saying so is often more because it goes against their concept of rules.

Be bold! Don't be afraid of rules people. That's how you develop voice.

But do heed Jeff's advice on this one, and there is no one better at fixing those kinds of problems. The writing needs some work, and with a little effort, is easy to fix.
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 33 - 44
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 9:48am Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36
Understood.

Karma peace to you, as well, Kevin.





Script is still a blueprint, though.  HA!



Logged
Private Message Reply: 34 - 44
Dreamscale
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 10:22am Report to Moderator
Guest User



I do agree with Kevin on almost everything he said here.

We do have the same goal and to achieve that goal, one has to be able to write effectively, technically, visually, and just somehow rise above the dreck and mediocrity.

I understand the quote, "No trick is too cheap in that effort if it works.", but I don't play that way, personally.

As to the blueprint/non blueprint debate, I have to say I see it both ways, really.  I think a script should be a blueprint, but it rarely ever is going to be.  It could be, if it's good enough, but that's rarely the case.

If a good or great writer spends enough time researching, thnking, plotting, etc, a script could be ready to go as is, but the problem these days are way too many hands in the fire, and many of these additional hands don't know what's right and what's wrong, and therefor, we're left with the movies that are made.

Peace out to both.  Nice to see a discussion and not a flame war.  Well done, peeps!
Logged
e-mail Reply: 35 - 44
KevinLenihan
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 11:02am Report to Moderator
Been Around


Posts
528
Posts Per Day
0.13

Quoted Text
As to the blueprint/non blueprint debate, I have to say I see it both ways, really.  I think a script should be a blueprint, but it rarely ever is going to be.  It could be, if it's good enough, but that's rarely the case.

If a good or great writer spends enough time researching, thnking, plotting, etc, a script could be ready to go as is, but the problem these days are way too many hands in the fire, and many of these additional hands don't know what's right and what's wrong, and therefor, we're left with the movies that are made.


And this is where it gets interesting, from an intellectual standpoint. A real estate agent doesn't shop house blueprints...because they are boring. Who wants to see the septic tank plan?

Of course, there is a blueprint aspect to a script, otherwise we could just write a short story or novella and sell that. But since the goal of shopping a screenplay can be undermined by the blueprint nature of a script, crafty writers learn how to "cheat" in order to make the script more effective...less like a stale blueprint.

That's where the occasional use of an aside or a colorful description comes in handy.

Today I was reading Crazy, Stupid, Love. Excellent writing. Not in any way novelistic. But there is an occasional aside peppered in...not many, less than many other pros...but they are there...in just the right measure.

Jeff is like a skilled contractor going to the job and not using all the tools available. It's an unnecessary handicap. They have power drills these days. Use your tool, man!


Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 36 - 44
Dreamscale
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 12:14pm Report to Moderator
Guest User




Quoted from KevinLenihan
And this is where it gets interesting, from an intellectual standpoint. A real estate agent doesn't shop house blueprints...because they are boring. Who wants to see the septic tank plan?

Of course, there is a blueprint aspect to a script, otherwise we could just write a short story or novella and sell that. But since the goal of shopping a screenplay can be undermined by the blueprint nature of a script, crafty writers learn how to "cheat" in order to make the script more effective...less like a stale blueprint.

That's where the occasional use of an aside or a colorful description comes in handy.

Today I was reading Crazy, Stupid, Love. Excellent writing. Not in any way novelistic. But there is an occasional aside peppered in...not many, less than many other pros...but they are there...in just the right measure.

Jeff is like a skilled contractor going to the job and not using all the tools available. It's an unnecessary handicap. They have power drills these days. Use your tool, man!


Uh oh...here we go again...naw, just kidding, but I do want to reply.

I was working with an inexperienced writer a few years back and after awhile, or several pages, I said I couldn't go on because the script was just littered with cheesy, cliche asides and unfilmables.  He got mad and I didn't hear from him for awhile.  A few months later, he came to me and said a number of peeps said the same thing about his script, but he didn't understand what constitutes cliche or cheese.

And, it was actually an interesting question, because if you truly don't know what constitutes something being cheesy or cliche, it's hard to explain, other than giving a definition and saying, basically, hey, listen, cliche is cliche because it is and cheesy is cheesy because it is.  But if that person has never heard the cliche or cheesy line before, how is he supposed to know it's cheesy or cliche?  He really can't, can he?

And that's where using potentially cliche or cheesy asides and unfilmables "could" be a problem.

"He pounces like a hungry lion."

"...her eyes like saucers..."

"...13 going on 21..."

Etc, etc, etc.

You can only read these kinds of lines so many times before your eyes hurt from rolling so many times.

You may well think you're writing unique, entertaining asides, but you'll never know if that's truly the case.

Nothing wrong with a well placed aside here and there for effect...nothing at all.  But, it's easy to missfire and it's even easier to go overboard, and that's exactly why I always recommend steering clear and not getting in the "bad" habit of writing like this.

Write visually.  Write interestingly.  Write engagingly.  Hell, write uniquely.

Peace out...word to the mutha.


Revision History (1 edits)
Dreamscale  -  November 6th, 2013, 1:01pm
Logged
e-mail Reply: 37 - 44
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 12:30pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36

Quoted from Dreamscale
Nice to see a discussion and not a flame war.  Well done, peeps!

I greatly appreciate this aspect, as well.
Thank you, gentlemen.


Quoted from KevinLenihan
And this is where it gets interesting, from an intellectual standpoint.
Nope.
Practical standpoint.


A real estate agent doesn't shop house blueprints...because they are boring. Who wants to see the septic tank plan?
What house?
The house that the general contractor built?
Yeah, the GC uses a blueprint.
You're right, a real estate agent doesn't.

In film world a real estate agent is more like a distributor.
In construction there is no counterpart to the contemporary literary agent. At least none that comes to mind.

Blueprints are for general contractors, not real estate agents.
Screenplays are for directors and producers.
They should not be for screenplay agents and capricious readers.

If I wanna build a house (and I've GC'ed my own and my father's houses) I don't goto a real estate agent to have her show me photographs out of a magazine of a house some other GC built using blueprints.

No. I go to an achitectural firm or order some premade BPs for my client to modify. (Don't be shocked and amazed that I actually designed both houses - I did. [Whodaman?!!])
And if I'm building a spec house I make those changes myself.

Same thing with spec scripts.
I goto a spec script resource, select from the premade base plans the writers have spec written, ask to have some things modified, then build the film.

Spec screenplays are a B2B product.  From screenwriters to director/producers. They are not from screenwriters to viewers.


Of course, there is a blueprint aspect to a script, Yeah, a pretty big aspect otherwise we could just write a short story or novella and sell that. No. That's for publishers. In publishing you have a printing cost directly associated with a word count, that aside, you can blather on endlessly But since the goal of shopping a screenplay can be undermined by the blueprint nature of a script, crafty writers learn how to "cheat" in order to make the script more effective...less like a stale blueprint.
Now this is the point where I will acknowledge the industry has been perverted into absurdity.
Like big rubber tits perverted.
It loooooks like one thing, but it isn't real at all. It's absurd.

Can you bring a nuts and bolts base screenplay to an agent to peddle to director/producers with cash & equipment but no ideas of their own to develop?
No. Not honestly. You can't.
No contest.
You're right.

I can't enter a longshoreman in a Mr Olympia competition.
But I'd rather have that longshoreman on my construction site.

So, yeah, if you're shopping on the spec screenplay to agent market YOU DEFINITELY DO GOTTA DOT YOUR T'S AND CROSS YOUR EYE'S and add cute little flourishes to your character intros and other such siliness.

Just KNOW that it's all wasted BS.

Call it for what it is.
All muscle for show - not a d@mn bit of productive labor coming from it.


That's where the occasional use of an aside or a colorful description comes in handy.


http://image.ebookl.com/2013/10/16/741251-mr-olympia-2013-bodybuildingcom-2013-olympia.jpg




Revision History (2 edits; 1 reasons shown)
RayW  -  November 6th, 2013, 2:20pm
Logged
Private Message Reply: 38 - 44
Reef Dreamer
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 1:29pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Part time writer

Location
The Island of Jersey
Posts
2612
Posts Per Day
0.57
I still liked the pictures of the girls....I'm simple like that.  

Oh, script writing, oh yeah, err....don't write 'unfilmable aside slugs', they're bad for you.


My scripts  HERE

The Elevator Most Belonging To Alice - Semi Final Bluecat, Runner Up Nashville
Inner Journey - Page Awards Finalist - Bluecat semi final
Grieving Spell - winner - London Film Awards.  Third - Honolulu
Ultimate Weapon - Fresh Voices - second place
IMDb link... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7062725/?ref_=tt_ov_wr
Logged
Private Message Reply: 39 - 44
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 2:22pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36
I'm gonna paint a poor slug green, film it, and chroma key it out to render an unfilmable slug. Ha!



Logged
Private Message Reply: 40 - 44
KevinLenihan
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
Been Around


Posts
528
Posts Per Day
0.13
I used to put slugs in the soda machine. I actually remember when they were 50 cents!
Logged Offline
Private Message Reply: 41 - 44
RayW
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 2:56pm Report to Moderator
Old Timer


Freedom

Location
About a thousand years from now.
Posts
1821
Posts Per Day
0.36
LOL!


Kids.


The dumb sh!t we all did. Tsk tsk.



Logged
Private Message Reply: 42 - 44
Dreamscale
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 3:08pm Report to Moderator
Guest User




Quoted from KevinLenihan
I used to put slugs in the soda machine. I actually remember when they were 50 cents!


I remember when they were 25 cents!

But the beauty, is that I still rarely ever pay more than 25 cents per can, when purchasing a 12 pack.

LOL!!!
Logged
e-mail Reply: 43 - 44
dogglebe
Posted: November 6th, 2013, 5:52pm Report to Moderator
Guest User



I enjoyed this script.  So far it's easily my favorite of the OWC scripts I'll read.

Horror and humor were nicely mixed together.  Willow's bubbly personality and her dire situation complemented each other very nicely.  I got the impression that you modelled her after Allison Hannigan's character from Buffy:  Vampire Slayer

The dialog was probably the weakest part of the script, though not a great problem.  When you get the time, you may want to consider reworking it.

Thank you.


Phil




EDIT --  Seeing the discussion about the word organic, I just want to add that, when I saw Willow's description I thought of Mary Jane from the second Scooby Doo movie.  A young hippie chick.

Revision History (1 edits)
RayW  -  November 6th, 2013, 6:04pm
Logged
e-mail Reply: 44 - 44
 Pages: « 1, 2, 3 : All
Recommend Print

Locked Board Board Index    October 2013 One Week Challenge  [ previous | next ] Switch to:
Was Portal Recent Posts Home Help Calendar Search Register Login

Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post polls
You may not post attachments
HTML is on
Blah Code is on
Smilies are on


Powered by E-Blah Platinum 9.71B © 2001-2006