Only problem, Marn, is this: I have most of the black list scripts for the last few years. I bet there is not a single one Jeff would not put down after a few pages. Not a single one.

Jeff has a lot to offer. I just think he would have more to offer if he would do what screenwriting standards always are...and that is evolving. It's a literary form that is only a century old. It's evolving.

Thanks, Marnie and Ray.  As I always say, I truly mean to help in everything I say.  My opinion is not the end all by any means, but at the same time, I doubt anything I say isn't on point.

Kev, I apologize, because I don't want to argue or piss around with you or anyone.  It's foolish, immature, and serves no real purpose.

I honestly believe that no one can or will "make it" in this industry unless they know how to write a sentence, a passage, a Slug, etc. and the bottom line is that, based on the vast majority of examples "we see", that's what we're dealing with.

Most peeps don't point out obvious things like this and I honestly don't know if it's because they don't want to be an ass or they honestly don't know themselves what's wrong.

I only point things out and bring things up, because I see them and I can't help but point out mistakes when they are glaring to the point where I don't want to go any further.

God bless all those who don't see or don't care, but Marnie is right - many do and I think we've all heard stories about the reader who threw a script away for this or that. Why start off behind the the line?  Why wave red flags, when you don't have to?

That ellusive fantastic story, character, or the whole 9 yards doesn't come along very often - why not do what you can every time and put your best foot forward and show you're a writer who knows his or her shit?  You know?  Why not?  How could that be a bad thing?

I may be harsh and tough, but if you look back in time, I think you'll find that the best teachers give it out straight up and don't accept anything but the best.

That's all I really preach.  Great stories and characters are like comedy - it's a personal taste.

Great writing, strong writing, solid grammar, etc, really shouldn't ever be a topic for discussion, as it is what it is, and those in the know, will know.

Peace out.

Jeff is the Simon Cowell of Simply Scripts. You do run into those once in a while so here is our own personal insight into issues that irk the more hard core types.  And some of those readers are old school and always will be old school.  

I think for the most part though, it's lazy writing that irks most. Bad spelling, grammar or just not taking the time to learn proper formatting.

We all have our peeves. I'm not a slug nut because I break the rules there myself, but for me...I can't stand camera direction and writers seem to always defend their camera directions.  

Quoted from stevie I can honestly say that Jeff's or anyone' else's review or page 2 shutdown doesn't influence me residing a particular script. If anything I will crack the script to have a look. I'll be honest here too and say that I have read a number of scripts in this OWC but haven't left any comments because they were pretty tough on the eye. I didn't see the point when other reviews have pointed out the problems.

That's usually my mantra. I'll read them, but if most comments take care of most of what I have to say, my words will be few, if any. That said, there's 50 some short scripts. And I won't say to any one of the writers "you're a bad writer" or "looks like this was rushed" (*a complete dull thing to say in a OWC- Most are written in less than a week, I would think!) and everyone, even the SS seasoned such as myself wiill miss a few things here and there. I'm no Mr Perfecto in OWCs.. In fact, when I rewrite my thing, I'm going to drop the last three pages and go for another angle, so to speak.

However, if there's anything, good or bad that other folks didn't mention or mention enough, by all means bring up the subject. Or even if you like something that most seem to not like or the other way around.

It's a OWC. It should discourage nobody.

Jeff, the issue is that you often confuse great writing with writing by the "rules". There is a huge difference.

The pros don't break the rules because they don't understand them or because they are lazy. They break the rules when and where it enables them to more effectively and efficiently convey their story. If the writing was really what you cared about, you would be open to that.

I want to add that I don't at all appreciate your questioning my motives in my reviews. I am not going to reply in the thread you raised your insane accusation because it is off the topic of the script and unfair to the writer.

I give honest reviews, and you know it. We just see scripts differently. If a script is formatted well and written decently, throw in something graphic, and you love it. That's how you rank your scripts. No matter how absurd the story is, if it has proper slug use and an exploding head or some memorable dismemberment or demons beheaded by costume machetes, you love it. Fine. That's your view.

For me, if a story is imperfectly written but has interesting characters that we care what happens to, or it has a compelling mystery that moves the story, or maybe just something really clever, I think the work has merit. The writing can always be polished.

While you are busy chasing windmills and hoping to teach the pros how to write "correctly", I am just trying to learn what works in story. There are other writers who feel the same way.

Quoted from ReneC Is it any wonder so many prods are trying to copy the Blumhouse model now? Most of the movies in this list are theirs.

A peek at history: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089658/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

Lookit what he produced before 'PA': http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089658/#producer

Quoted from KevinLenihan Jeff, the issue is that you often confuse great writing with writing by the "rules". There is a huge difference.

Totally untrue, Kevin.  Unless by rules, you're talking about sentence structure, proper grammar use, proper punctuation, visual, clear writing, and lean, tight, easy to read writing.

The real problem is that "our argument" will go on forever, because you honestly don't get it, or just won't admit it.

Quoted from KevinLenihan The pros don't break the rules because they don't understand them or because they are lazy. They break the rules when and where it enables them to more effectively and efficiently convey their story. If the writing was really what you cared about, you would be open to that.

And there you go again with that same blanket statement about "Pro writers" not being able to do wrong because they're Pro writers.  Do you feel the same about Pro athletes? Do you honestly think because they're Pros, they can't do anythign incorrect, have a bad game, or just flat out suck?  What's with the strange infatuation with Pro writers?  Damn, bro, I don't get it!

Quoted from KevinLenihan I want to add that I don't at all appreciate your questioning my motives in my reviews. I am not going to reply in the thread you raised your insane accusation because it is off the topic of the script and unfair to the writer.

Well, I'm sorry about that, but as I said, I don't appreciate you glowing over obviously pathetically written garbage and shooting down the few well written scripts.  You know, it's all fine and cool to write a glowing review on your own script, and most of us not only do it, but have been doing it for years, but most of us don't make it so damn obvious.

Quoted from KevinLenihan I give honest reviews, and you know it. We just see scripts differently.

I can't say I do know that, Kev, at least not based on your reviews this OWC.  I may not have read the entire script for every single entry, but I did read many entire scripts, and at times, my eyes bug out of my head when I read your reviews.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If a script is formatted well and written decently, throw in something graphic, and you love it. That's how you rank your scripts. No matter how absurd the story is, if it has proper slug use and an exploding head or some memorable dismemberment or demons beheaded by costume machetes, you love it. Fine. That's your view.

This is downright horseshit, and you fucking know it.  If a script is well written, that will most likely be the first thing I remark on, because it occurrs so rarely, especially in an OWC.  It's a welcome relief - it's like travelling in a 3rd world country, where every hotel you room you wlk into, you roll your eyes and say, "Really?  What the fuck?", and then you finally check into a clean, nice room.

Your comments about graphic this or that, is also BS, and you know it.  In fact, if you actually read what I say in reviews, I often complain about action being too over the top, cartoon-like, unrealistic, etc.

Exploding heads and dismemberment?  Sure, they have their place, used in the right context, but that doesn't make a script good vs. the script without either.

You're being riduculous with these comments and you know it.

Quoted from KevinLenihan For me, if a story is imperfectly written but has interesting characters that we care what happens to, or it has a compelling mystery that moves the story, or maybe just something really clever, I think the work has merit. The writing can always be polished.

The writing can always be polished?  By who?  You know one reason most movies really suck?  It's because writers have that same attitude and don't understand how important attention to detail is.  You know what happens when it comes time to shoot?  No one did that polish, no one spent the time to address little details that make and break scripts and movies.  And, sadly, no one even fucking realized that the script needed polish.

Quoted from KevinLenihan While you are busy chasing windmills and hoping to teach the pros how to write "correctly", I am just trying to learn what works in story. There are other writers who feel the same way.

A nice analogy there, Kevin.  Well done.

Obviously, I won't be teaching any Pros how to write, and according to you, Pros can do no wrong, so they have nothing to learn.  They know exactly what they're doing and because they're Pros, their work is perfect and everytime they break a rule, it's because it's the very best way to get across whateve tehy needed to get across.

As I've said many times, if you really want to learn what works and doesn't work in story, character, action, everythign, don't just read your award winning screenplays and don't just watch the top 5% of the films out there.  Get down on your belly and wade through the shit, and you'll see exactly what doesn't work and why, and then, you can write your masterpiece by breaking every rule you can think of, and honestly believe that you're doing it simply because that's the best way to do it.

Just for the record,  I'll take Dreamscale's review to heart any day of the week over any other reader/writer on this site.   I've seen with my own eyes he doesn't BS, he doesn't candy coat and he knows what he's talking about.  I for one, appreciate that.

Quoted from NickSedario Just for the record,  I'll take Dreamscale's review to heart any day of the week over any other reader/writer on this site.

That kind of make it sounds us other people that read your script didn't matter...  

Quoted from Grandma Bear That kind of make it sounds us other people that read your script didn't matter...

If you're walking through a desert and you come to a muddy water hole, you drink from it because you're thirsty and you have no other options.  But you'd really prefer having a nice ice cold bottle of mountain spring water.

Quoted from Grandma Bear That kind of make it sounds us other people that read your script didn't matter...

Everybody matters.     But when it comes to the technical aspects of screenwriting, Dreamscale's a cut above the rest.   I don't necessarily agreee with everything he says, but I learn more from his reviews than anybody else.   He's a tried and true "script mechanic".

And no, I don't have a man-crush on him.

Every OWC needs;

A challenge

Entries

A writers choice nomination

And a spat involving Jeff.

Just wouldn't be the same without one.

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Every OWC needs; A challenge Entries A writers choice nomination And a spat involving Jeff. Just wouldn't be the same without one.

Funny.  I'm sorry about this and I honestly don't enjoy it or want it to happen.

I calls 'em as I sees 'em, and that's not going to change.  Peeps don't like seeing my reviews, I'm sure, but when you throw somethign up for feedback, you have to take what you get, and if the script isn't up to snuff, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I'll still make it clear why I stopped.

I've attempted to read all 49 entries and have left feedback on all of them.  Looks to me like the vast mojority of peeps who entered haven't read more than a handful, and many haven't commented on any, which is sad and weak at the same time, but also the way it always is.

Silver, I have no problem with your defense of Jeff. I felt that way when I was a new writer too, and I will always say Jeff helped me a lot, and I remain grateful.

As for his view of screenwriting or scripts, I don't doubt that he is generally sincere in his comments. He calls it how he sees it.

He has no right or basis to doubt the sincerity of my comments, however. I have always called it how I see it, even when it rubs some the wrong way. I hope my comments prove useful to the writer, and that's my only goal when I start a review.

And keep in mind, Silver: I asked Jeff if he could name a single pro spec script that he considers to be a good model for screenwriting. A single well written pro script. He could not name one. Digest that a bit when you form conclusions about his ability as a "tried and true script mechanic". Every Don needs a Sancho.

Quoted from Dreamscale Looks to me like the vast mojority of peeps who entered haven't read more than a handful, and many haven't commented on any, which is sad and weak at the same time, but also the way it always is.

I've only read 13 so far, but I'm planing on going through them all. Just haven't had the time yet...