This is to help the more methodical read the OWC scripts.  The title of the script links to the discussion thread of the particular script.  Once there, clicking the title opens the script.

Happy Reading


The Tent by A K C - Horror - An innocent camping trip turns into a nightmare when two friends discover an insidious plot.  ( R ) - pdf, format

And He Spoke A Darkened Heart by Four - Horror - A mix of corporate philosophy and evil combine to make merriment on the eve of war. ( PG ) - pdf, format

New Salem by Wolfgang Calvin - Horror - In the secluded town of New Salem, Alaska, a disgraced sheriff seeks to rescue his former deputies from a coven of witches operating a whore house.  ( R ) - pdf, format

Magick In The Machine by Mr. Magick - Horror - An aging witch, a junkie and internet porn. What could possibly go wrong? ( R ) - pdf, format

Blackwood by Edhughes60 - Horror - A young Warlock on a mission arrives at an abandoned Sanatorium, where he finds himself face to face with a demonic presence looking to make our world his new home. ( R ) - pdf, format

The P.R. Meeting by Five - Horror - A group of witches review a proposal from a public relations agency to improve their image. (PG) - pdf, format

Where The Lost Souls Thrive by Six - Horror - Forced to confront a witch with the power to switch realms, a bitter demon begins to understand the meaning of his useless existence. ( ( Reader Cautioned ) - pdf, format

Aleister Crowley vs Heinrich Himmler by Joe Lewis - Horror - The beast meets the butcher in a battle of wits. (PG ) - pdf, format

Willow's Bewitchment by Seven - Horror - Poor, sweet Willow the witch deftly escapes the horrors of inhumanity only to face a worse fate! ( R ) - pdf, format

Wicca by Fattie - Horror - The Wicca must die - unless, of course, they are innocent. (R ) - pdf, format

ACT IV, SCENE 1 by Tres Wiches - Horror - When three real modern witches audition for the role of the Three Witches in a production of Macbeth, they must endure the DirectorÕs cruel criticism and rejection of countless performers - and ultimately themselves - until they are driven to unleash their gory revenge on the Director. ( R ) - pdf, format

Guilty of Blood by Eight - Horror - Dumachas, the bad thief at the Crucifixion, condemned to serve Satan, invokes his master at the trial of a woman accused of murdering her daughter, and sways the jury to find her not guilty, enabling the Devil to take her soul. (reader cautioned) - pdf, format

A Bill To Pay by ? - Horror - Bill has been searching for the answer to an urgent problem. He ends up at the Gardner Building. Will he find a way out in there? (PG) - pdf, format

Heed The Slighted by Nine - Horror - Sam was tired of following the Golden Rule. (PG) - pdf, format

The Time I Don't Exist by Ten - Horror - In a volcano region, a backpacker contacts the isolated natives.  (reader cautioned) - pdf, format

Times Are Changing by Eleven - Horror - Old and new witches have different ways of doing things. (PG ) - pdf, format

The Good Neighbor by nunzio - Horror - How well do you really know your neighbors? (PG) - pdf, format

What Comes Around by Twelve - Horror - A young woman fights back against the witch she's indebted to. (PG) - pdf, format

The Doorway To Hell by Fifteen - Horror - When a medium, who would rather be normal, is given the chance to expand her powers, she will bear the wight of the world in her decision to fight for good or evil. ( R ) - pdf, format

Evocation by Fourteen - Horror - An aging warlock begins to lose his once incredible  powers as death creeps upon him. As one last act of evil, he summons a demon spirit from the depths of hell in the hope of unleashing death and carnage on earth.  But first, a strong vessel must be found to house the spirit. Once found, can the vessel in question fight off the demon possession and prevent hell on earth? (PG) - pdf, format

Familiar by Sixteen - Horror - A mournful witch faces off against a vengeful spirit in the wake of her coven's dissolution. ( R ) - pdf, format

The Grieving Spell by Seventeen - Horror - A grieving man uses a special magic to relieve the pain he feels following the death of his wife. ® - pdf, format

Samhain, Romanian Style by Eleventy-One - Horror - An American foreign exchange student in Bulgaria learns firsthand that witches are real and Halloween isn't just for kids. (R ) - pdf, format

Be Careful What You Wish For by The Wish Factory - Horror - Revenge tastes sweet when you don't have to work for it. ( G ) - pdf, format

Mountain Hexer by Twenty - Horror - Two young men confront an evil moutain witch, but cannot possibly comprehend the horror they're about to confront. ( R ) - pdf, format

Where The Wild Thyme Blows by Some Muggle - Horror - A young boy gets more than he bargained for when he stumbles upon a buried treasure. (PG) - pdf, format

The Trial by Anonymous - Horror - A modern day presentation of another Salem Witch Trial. (PG) - pdf, format

The Addicts of Eastwick by Twenty-Two - Horror - Two cops go looking for a fix from a mysterious, underground dealer. ( R ) - pdf, format

Forward Then Backward by Twenty-Four - Horror - The isms aren't dead. They're just being concealed. (G) - pdf, format

The Rift by Twenty-Five - Horror - Hooky playing siblings seek help when they lose a friend in a monster inhabited woods, and end up ensnared in a witch's trap. (PG) - pdf, format

History Lesson by Twenty-Six - Horror - Three desperate men pick the wrong house to break into...10 pages pdf (PG) - pdf, format 8)

Immersion by Three Point One Four - Horror - Looking to escape her troubled home life, Lily seeks protection from a dark source. ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

Test Trial by Twenty-Seven - Horror - A girl accompanies her friend as she attempts to perform a devious spell that ends in unexpected results.  (PG) - pdf, format 8)

Harm None Do As Ye Will by Twenty-Eight - Horror - Even though opposites attract, it doesn't always mean they can live in peace and harmony.  (PG) - pdf, format 8)

Caesarean Fiction by Twenty-Nine - Horror - A young man is tormented by an evil voice within his head...the voice of something within his pregnant wife. ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

Descent of the Maiden by Thirty - Horror - The tale of the Maiden is a sad one: hated for her skin, revelled for her innocence. What begins with Death, ends with the Apocalypse - the coming of the Horned One. ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

One Evil Man by Bernard Cummings - Horror - A nurse discovers her terminal patient has more than just a passing interest in witchcraft.  Much more. ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

Blind Casting by A Green Wort - Horror - Beware the words and their portent or lose your soul without repent, for caution and woe wait within for those with blackness born of sin. (reader cautioned) - pdf, format 8)

Heart Attacks by Thirty-one - Horror - A detective has to uncover the truth about a young woman and her involvement in the ritualistic killing of several townsfolk. (PG) - pdf, format 8)

Good Girl by Thirty-Two - Horror - When a teenage girl uses her powers as a witch for good, she must deal with the bad response from her parents. (reader cautioned) - pdf, format 8)

Small Town Lies by Thirty-Three - Horror - What happens in a small town stays in a small town.  (PG) - pdf, format 8)

Red Hook by Thirty-Four - Horror - When a brother has to choose between revenge or murder, neither choice is the right one (R ) - pdf, format 8)

The Clearing by H.R. Pufnstuf - Horror - A woman inherits some land from a great grandmother she never knew and finds some things out about herself. (PG ) - pdf, format 8)

Witches Can't Fly by Thirty-Five - Horror - A young witch is hired to raise the spirit of a dead woman, but things don't go according to plan. (PG) - pdf, format 8)

The Withered by Thirty-Six - Horror - A woman severs the hands of her stalker. Locked up, he boasts he will finish the job. But how? ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

Hex by Thirty-nine - Horror - A psychiatrist encounters a client he can't control. ( R ) - pdf, format 8)

Oh, dear (insert deity here). That's a crapload of submissions!

Don's a real Johnny-on-the-spot getting all of these posted so quickly. Thanks, man!

Hey Don,

Nice job pulling this all together! It's impressive!

That being said I want to draw your attention to "The Tent" at the top of the page. The link is broken and I don't believe there is a thread.

Hey Don -

Thanks for having this as the overall list...it'll make it *far* easier to figure out what's been read, and what hasn't...especially given the number of submissions this time around!  

Wowzer....is that a record???

Thanks Don for putting it together!!! You rock!!

Quoted from EWall433 Hey Don, That being said I want to draw your attention to "The Tent" at the top of the page. The link is broken and I don't believe there is a thread.

The link for "The Tent" has been fixed.

Don

Christ, that's a long list... I'll read what I can. haha

Like others before this time I am having a go at grading the scripts.

Folks, please, please don't take too much by this. It helps me focus in what I think and forces me to clarify my opinions more than I usually do.

I will generally appear harsh as A grades are going to be left for exceptional work and B will be rare.

I may also revise.

If someone feels they have been unfairly treated they can contact me, but hopefully I will explain in enough detail and besides I'm just one opinion.

Finally, I make sure I read no other reviews before reading, reviewing and grading.

Let's all have fun and learn.

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Like others before this time I am having a go at grading the scripts. Folks, please, please don't take too much by this. It helps me focus in what I think and forces me to clarify my opinions more than I usually do. I will generally appear harsh as A grades are going to be left for exceptional work and B will be rare. I may also revise. If someone feels they have been unfairly treated they can contact me, but hopefully I will explain in enough detail and besides I'm just one opinion. Finally, I make sure I read no other reviews before reading, reviewing and grading. Let's all have fun and learn.

Hey great idea Reap! Go for it!

I haven't read yours yet but unless you can send real cash via email, I'm gonna haveta put you down for a big 'D'!

Quoted from Reef Dreamer Like others before this time I am having a go at grading the scripts. Folks, please, please don't take too much by this. It helps me focus in what I think and forces me to clarify my opinions more than I usually do. I will generally appear harsh as A grades are going to be left for exceptional work and B will be rare. I may also revise. If someone feels they have been unfairly treated they can contact me, but hopefully I will explain in enough detail and besides I'm just one opinion. Finally, I make sure I read no other reviews before reading, reviewing and grading. Let's all have fun and learn.

I'm not even entered so I shouldn't even have a problem with this...but I do.

Can't you grade on paper? Then write your review down as usual and keep your 'grades' for the end when you select your readers' choice?

I know you're not the only one who elects to do this, and you know this is not personal, I just find the whole grading thing annoying and just...wrong.

Actually, not just annoying - it come across as pretentious and elitist (even though I know that's not the intention) and imh it does influence others votes.

I give this an F+.
See, that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Grades are for contests and this is a 'challenge'.
Grading is for Nicholl and Page. It should be banned on SS.

Imh.

On another note, I can't believe they're all posted. Well done, Don.

Great job Don! Thanks so much! And thanks for creating a challenge that at first sight, didn't seem too challenging but in the end...kicked a lot of our azzez!

Personally, I love the grading system.  Mo has done this in the past and I always get a kick out of it and look forward to each of his reviews.

To each, his own.  Grade away, Reef!

I love the grades I can remember Mo and Blond doing it a time before and I got a chuckle out of it.

Hah, most members I've seen on the board in... like... a decade? lmao

I clicked on "HEX" and it goes straight to the script. In other words nowhere to leave a reply.

Mark

I love me the grading system as well but I can understand how people might dislike it. I actually started doing it so peeps have two grades to compare it to or otherwise they definitely do stick out like a sore-thumb. But glad Bill's doing it as well, Sean seems to missing.

But I do think the first review to a script holds major, major value, especially if it's by a more respected member of the board. And I know I probably sound like a douche, but I'd consider writing an honest review on your own script (anonymously) if you truly do think that the first review was unwarranted, or might leave a bad stain on the script.

Quoted from irish eyes I clicked on "HEX" and it goes straight to the script. In other words nowhere to leave a reply. Mark

I noticed that too.

Quoted from Grandma Bear I noticed that too.

Standby for a fix.

Quoted from Don Standby for a fix.

Hex has been fixed.

Don

Quoted from nawazm11 I love me the grading system as well but I can understand how people might dislike it. I actually started doing it so peeps have two grades to compare it to or otherwise they definitely do stick out like a sore-thumb. But glad Bill's doing it as well, Sean seems to missing.

I do feel bad about the grades, sometimes. I don't like giving negative marks, but I also dislike being untruthful. It may be pretentious (not elitist, at all) but at the same time, it's universal. Virtually everyone knows what each grade means and it can give the writer an increased knowledge about how their script stacks up. I've had reviews before that were mixed because people liked some things and not others, but I wasn't sure how what they liked what weighted against what they didn't. So, I started doing it as an extra bonus detail.

And, Mo, I didn't go anywhere. In fact, I'm here every day and I'm going to try and read them all by Tuesday night. I figure it's time for me to earn some good will because I didn't actually review any in the last OWC and am still kicking myself for it. Here's hoping for some good stuff. =)

Nice to see you back, man!

Quoted from LC I'm not even entered so I shouldn't even have a problem with this...but I do. Can't you grade on paper? Then write your review down as usual and keep your 'grades' for the end when you select your readers' choice? I know you're not the only one who elects to do this, and you know this is not personal, I just find the whole grading thing annoying and just...wrong. Actually, not just annoying - it come across as pretentious and elitist (even though I know that's not the intention) and imh it does influence others votes. I give this an F+. See, that sticks out like a sore thumb. Grades are for contests and this is a 'challenge'. Grading is for Nicholl and Page. It should be banned on SS. Imh. On another note, I can't believe they're all posted. Well done, Don.

I understand your opinion and believe me I will not be overly aggressive in this. Indeed, having started this I feel I am now giving each script more thought than before, which should be fairer.

Also, if someone says a script is awful but doesn't give a mark I don't see that as a better outcome.

I will get this wrong, that's certain, but so will other people remarks, put downs and dismissive comments. If I can do this appropriately it should be honest. If it doesn't seem to work for me I will stop. I have no doubt this is just setting myself up to be knocked but, as said before, it is driving me to give each closer consideration (than I would normally would, others are better reviewers)

As a final point, I like anonymous voting as it brings a more honest outcome, but part of that is the fact readers don't like revealing what they really thought.

So far I have enjoyed the scripts, there is a great variety as usual. If I had a gripe, and I could level this at mine as well, is the delivery and execution. But what do you expect, they're written in a very short period of time.


Edit - I  will also add to each grade that if the writer wishes this removed I will do so - I'm not hear to annoy

Quoted from Reef Dreamer I understand your opinion and believe me I will not be overly aggressive in this. Indeed, having started this I feel I am now giving each script more thought than before, which should be fairer. Also, if someone says a script is awful but doesn't give a mark I don't see that as a better outcome. I will get this wrong, that's certain, but so will other people remarks, put downs and dismissive comments. If I can do this appropriately it should be honest. If it doesn't seem to work for me I will stop. I have no doubt this is just setting myself up to be knocked but, as said before, it is driving me to give each closer consideration (than I would normally would, others are better reviewers) As a final point, I like anonymous voting as it brings a more honest outcome, but part of that is the fact readers don't like revealing what they really thought. So far I have enjoyed the scripts, there is a great variety as usual. If I had a gripe, and I could level this at mine as well, is the delivery and execution. But what do you expect, they're written in a very short period of time. Edit - I  will also add to each grade that if the writer wishes this removed I will do so - I'm not hear to annoy

That's cool Bill. I wasn't trying to start anything, just voicing my opinion. I don't care for it that's all, but hey, it seems a few quite like it. You explained your reasoning for it.   I just hope it doesn't catch on too much.  

Quoted from LC That's cool Bill. I wasn't trying to start anything, just voicing my opinion. I don't care for it that's all, but hey, it seems a few quite like it. You explained your reasoning for it.   I just hope it doesn't catch on too much.

A+ for huggin' it out!  

Personally I think however a reader chooses to review a script is nobody's business but their own.  Different strokes for different folks.

I will try and read some more today. Had a massive day/nite at work Sunday. Left home at 1030 am, got home at 3 am this morning Monday!  Had a couple of hours of sleep but once it gets light,  I'm up and back into the coffee.

If a particular perp wants theirs read, feel free to pm me!

Quoted from LC I'm not even entered so I shouldn't even have a problem with this...but I do. Can't you grade on paper? Then write your review down as usual and keep your 'grades' for the end when you select your readers' choice? I know you're not the only one who elects to do this, and you know this is not personal, I just find the whole grading thing annoying and just...wrong. Actually, not just annoying - it come across as pretentious and elitist (even though I know that's not the intention) and imh it does influence others votes. I give this an F+. See, that sticks out like a sore thumb. Grades are for contests and this is a 'challenge'. Grading is for Nicholl and Page. It should be banned on SS. Imh. On another note, I can't believe they're all posted. Well done, Don.

Though the explanations in favor of the grading system are worthy, I tend to agree with LC that this can sway a person's initial impression either more in favor or against the merits of a script.

I am reading through several scripts, and then writing my reviews in Word to be posted later. After I've written the review in Word, only then do I read the reviews to see other folks thoughts. It may cause some redundancy in the reviews, but I feel it's more fair to the author.

If I read Dreamscape's reviews before writing my own thoughts, I'm not sure I'd ever see good in ANY script. No offense, Dreamscape, but man you are rough. I think anyone who went through the trouble of creating a story deserves a complete read-through - there might be a gem you missed on page 5, because you clicked out of the script on page 3 to start your review. Personally I don't think it's fair to even review something that hasn't been given complete consideration.

That being said, Dreamscape, a couple of years ago you lambasted one of my scripts and made me wonder if I should even be writing. It did humble me though and taught me to take the craft of screenwriting even more seriously. This fact lead to me landing a script assignment for a 30 minute short. The film ultimately won a Gold Remi award at the WorldFest Houston Film Festival this past spring. So glad my self-esteem didn't take too much of a wallop or I never would have seen my work on the big screen.

Dreamscape was pretty rough on my OWC too, (but at least it seems he finished the script, so that's an improvement in my favor!), so there's hope out there for those of you getting killed on your reviews. Good luck!   

Layla, my apologies if you think I'm being an ass for the sake of being an ass.  I'm not.

As I've said many times, what I say is what I think, and if you or anyone else disagrees, that's perfectly fine and cool.  I will always tell it like I see it and it's pretty obvious I see alot of things others don't, or maybe what others don't care to see.

I don't want to be nitpicky or over critical but when I see mistakes ...ridiculous mistakes, over and over, I'm not going to subject myself to continuing the painful read.

We've got 40-50 scripts here and at an avergae of 9 pages, that's 360-450 pages!  That's alot and I want to give each and every script a fair chance.  Some will think and say I didn't give their script a fair shot, but I try to say exactly why I stop and where I stop.  If nothing else, each writer will know what pushed me over the edge to give up the good fight.  I'm traeling for busines MOnday and Tuesday and I wanted to try and get feedback to each and every OWC entry before I left.

Feedback is objective and if you or anyone else wants more detail or wants to outright disagree with my words, I welcome that - and that's not in any way a challenge.  I have nothing to gain by posting negtaive feedback - I do it to help and point things out that others don't see or don't bring up. It's up to each wruiter to take what I say onboard, or to completely disregard it.

Layla, you've had 6 posts here in 2 years.  You didn't accept my words to read and review scripts 2 years ago and as far as I know, you haven't reviewed a single OWC script yet.  So, seriously, to say that I shouldn't provide feedback unless I finish a script is a little weak...or alot weak.

PM me if you want and I'll go into more detail on your entry.  I mean no harm, but I'm never going to give BS praise when something isn't deserving of it, or especially if I see many mistakes that shouldn't be there.

Cool?  Sorry to upset you.  Oh, BTW, it's Dreamscale, with an "l', not Dreamcape, with a "p".

Take care.

Didn't notice my auticorrect changed your name. Sorry about that. I give you credit for reviewing as much as you do. Like I said, you spurred me to be better.

As far as not posting reviews, to be honest I didn't feel I really fit in here. I decided to read scripts and learn. Attend the Austin Film Festival Conference panels for two and learn from the pros. It just seemed a better plan for me personally.

I saw the OWC and thought I'd take a shot on here one more time. Wasn't trying to insult you, so I hope you didn't take it that way. I was expressing my opinion on reviews here since others were. In hindsight, shouldn't have mentioned your name. My apologies.

Can all writers please refrain from revealing themselves until AFTER the voting??????????

Layla, I don't take anything personal unless someone is blatantly attacking me.  I understand you are not, so that's not an issue.

The only thing I take offense to is that you're not doing your part here, on SS.  This place works on 1 very simple principle - Quid Pro Quo - you get, you ive back.  You're not doing that and IMO, there's no excuse for that.

You posted a script here for this OWC.  You'll probably get fedback from at least 20, if not more, peps.  You need to return those favors.  And why wouldn't you?  You're an accomplished writer with multiple awards and competition success.

You know what I'm saying?  You want to play the game, you need to play the game.

Give back to the peeps.   Cool?  Hope so.  I never mean offense to anyone, again, unless they literally ask for it.

Hope to see some RadioShea89 reviews popping up.

Peace out.

52 entries and about 12, maybe 15 readers at the moment and some of them haven't entered!


So, if you entered and feel worried about submitting what you think, DONT WORRY, take a chance and say what you think.

Honest opinions are always welcome....just ask Dreampants  


Ps - anybody else get a kick out of someone spelling dreamscale wrong when they are having a spat with him. Seems to happen a few times a year.

Pps - that's not having a go at anybody, hope to see you around Radio, the more the better.

As I wrote, reviews are in the queue in my Word doc (7 so far). Posted one already.

20 scripts down...35 to go!

I spend the first couple of days reading from the bottom of the deck. As we get further into the week, I have to narrow it more to the ones that have been filtered and seem to be decent. I'm probably going to do 3 or 4 a day, so I might not get them all read before the reveal.

I've read the discussion above. As far as grading, I'm with LC: it's pretentious and serves little purpose. I'd rather people just leave constructive thoughts on the story. That kind of feedback is useful.

As far as the obligation to read a story to the end, I agree with Jeff that there is none...though I have read every story to the end so far. None of the stories blew me away, but they all were easy enough to read and follow.

I do think that if you only read one page and stop, it's unfair and nonconstructive to post that fact. Especially if it's the first review. Because that kind of thing makes it unlikely the script will get a lot of reads, as people seeing that will be turned away from reading. I think it's especially egregious to do this kind of thing simply because the script violates one's inflexible notion of "correct" screenwriting. The screenwriting world is rapidly moving past these arbitrary "rules", and is moving in the direction of emphasizing a more common sense approach. Take a gander at blacklist scripts if you don't believe me.

Good OWC so far! Stories are all clear and easy to follow.

Quoted from KevinLenihan I do think that if you only read one page and stop, it's unfair and nonconstructive to post that fact.

I disagree.

I think it's tremendously useful from a writer's POV to know if a "pro" reader puts down their screenplay X-pages into it.

A non-reply provides no actionable information to the writer.

A "I determined your story was unsuitable for my production company's criteria" or "I have fifty of these to read this week, your formatting is atrocious and your disregard for the craft are so disruptive I cannot get past page X. Please come back to ride this ride when you grow up." will provide an emotionally mature writer more than... nothing.

Wouldn't you want to know why agents won't represent your work?
Wouldn't you want to know why beginning director/producers pass over your submissions?

I wanna know why.
I respect a difference of taste. Fine. Cool. No one makes everyone happy.
But if a pattern emerges then... you at least know you gotta work on something.

Quoted Text Especially if it's the first review. Because that kind of thing makes it unlikely the script will get a lot of reads, as people seeing that will be turned away from reading. I think it's especially egregious to do this kind of thing simply because the script violates one's inflexible notion of "correct" screenwriting.

Ah, and this is where we separate the enthusiasts from the workers.

As I suggested above, if a "pro" reader has to burn through twenty submissions during a 8hr workday then each and every writer had better keep within generally accepted industry format and construct norms.

Because tomorrow that reader has to read another twenty.

And the next day another twenty.

And the next day another twenty.

Every [expletive] day that film producer's college lit major intern has gotta determine which of these agent submitted screenplay's are gonna pass/fail.

And they do this week after week after week after week for months.

We need to read these screenplays as such and in this mindset.

"That's not fair! My story idea REALLY IS fantastic! You can't disqualify me over petty format issues!"
Uh... Yes I can. Watch me.

We can't slow 'em down. We can't.
We gotta help them maintain their pace.

SOMEONE ELSE'S REVIEW IS PROFESSIONALLY IRRELEVANT.

Gotta disregard that. Largely.
You may wanna consider it because maybe they see something you didn't, but after reading a few thousand of these you develop your own sense of A) what the producer wants to see, B) what the producer's budget will support, and C) what I wanna see.

A screenwriting enthusiast has the love of craft to read every submission to the last FADE OUT, left or right justified.

A "pro" minded reader log-jams at the first couple typos, a non-engaging page one or two, and has zero problem with passing on a submission by page ten, easy peazy. He/she's go too d@mn many of these to read.

Same thing at film festivals: I promise the reviewers can tell in the first five minutes that the whole rest of the feature film is gonna be sh!t. Punch it @ the ten minute mark. Next.

Applies to screenplays, too!:

And I agree, you anxious nubes gotta quit outting yourselves a few days into this.
Good Lord.

Pre-mature divulge-ation.

Ray, all of that would be true...if...these were features.

And if...these were pro readers. Neither applies.

If someone stops reading my feature, I ALWAYS want to know what page. I've asked that question many times. I thank the reader for getting to where he did, and I ask where he stopped and why.

But this is the OWC thread. We are talking about OWCs being reviewed by amateurs, not features being sifted through for possible production material. Apples to oranges, sir.

A script written in 7 days is not expected to be perfect....a feature sent to a studio IS expected to be highly polished.

And the OWC is a prid quo affair. You read others and expect others to read yours. If the very first review says "stopped after page 1", it discourages other readers from reading. Why should that writer read others scripts then?

And these are NOT pro readers here, though there is really no such thing. I've seen people put down scripts because the Fade In was on the "wrong" side. I've seen people stop because they don't like bold slugs or because they don't believe in flashbacks or wrylies or orphans. Paid studio readers DO NOT put down scripts for those reasons.

Ray, your comments are perfectly relevant for a feature posted here. They are perfectly irrelevant for an OWC script. And I have seen some of the scripts where this has happened, and they are written and formatted fine...they just don't happen to match up with the pet peeves of the reviewer. Someone shouldn't bring pet peeves to this, especially in matters that have nothing to do with story or competence, but rather were the choice of the writer. Pro readers don't bring peeves like that. They do their job.

Quoted from KevinLenihan I have seen some of the scripts where this has happened, and they are written and formatted fine...

Ditto.

There are 50+ scripts.  There is little need for a "check in" post on every single script if 50% of your comments are to let everyone know you opened the file, spent 30 seconds, and shut it down.  Why?

If you intend to read alot, let your silence on some scripts serve as its own message.

My thoughts.

Fair enough, Kevin.  

God almighty that's a lot to read.

Got the flu at the moment, suuuuucks.  Will try to cure myself with some OWC scripts this week.  No deadline on the reviews?  If not, good, gives me some time.

Oh, Thank God.
There's only 49 to read and evaluate.

Code 1 The Tent 2 The Neighbor 3 The Elixir of Youth 4 And He Spoke A Darkened Heart 5 New Salem 6 Magick In The Machine 7 Blackwood 8 The P.R. Meeting 9 Where The Lost Souls Thrive 10 Aleister Crowley vs Heinrich Himmler 11 Willow's Bewitchment 12 Wicca 13 ACT IV, SCENE 1 14 Guilty of Blood 15 A Bill To Pay 16 Heed The Slighted 17 The Time I Don't Exist 18 Times Are Changing 19 The Good Neighbor 20 What Comes Around 21 The Doorway To Hell 22 Evocation 23 Familiar 24 The Grieving Spell 25 Samhain, Romanian Style 26 Chariots in the Cyanide 27 Be Careful What You Wish For 28 Mountain Hexer 29 Where The Wild Thyme Blows 30 The Trial 31 The Addicts of Eastwick 32 Forward Then Backward 33 The Rift 34 History Lesson 35 Immersion 36 Test Trial 37 Harm None Do As Ye Will 38 Caesarean Fiction 39 Descent of the Maiden 40 One Evil Man 41 Blind Casting 42 Heart Attacks 43 Good Girl 44 Small Town Lies 45 Red Hook 46 The Clearing 47 Witches Can't Fly 48 The Withered 49 Hex

55 entries, though.  
6 pissers?

Quoted from Don 5 did not meet the requirements (too long, too late, no witches or warlocks, not horror) 1 submitted without an email address

Unfortunate, but understood. Waaaa...  

Unfortunately I didn't have the time to enter the OWC but I'm gonna make an effort to read as many scripts as I can.

Best of luck too everyone who entered!

Quoted from RayW Oh, Thank God. There's only 49 to read and evaluate. Code 1 The Tent 2 The Neighbor 3 The Elixir of Youth 4 And He Spoke A Darkened Heart 5 New Salem 6 Magick In The Machine 7 Blackwood 8 The P.R. Meeting 9 Where The Lost Souls Thrive 10 Aleister Crowley vs Heinrich Himmler 11 Willow's Bewitchment 12 Wicca 13 ACT IV, SCENE 1 14 Guilty of Blood 15 A Bill To Pay 16 Heed The Slighted 17 The Time I Don't Exist 18 Times Are Changing 19 The Good Neighbor 20 What Comes Around 21 The Doorway To Hell 22 Evocation 23 Familiar 24 The Grieving Spell 25 Samhain, Romanian Style 26 Chariots in the Cyanide 27 Be Careful What You Wish For 28 Mountain Hexer 29 Where The Wild Thyme Blows 30 The Trial 31 The Addicts of Eastwick 32 Forward Then Backward 33 The Rift 34 History Lesson 35 Immersion 36 Test Trial 37 Harm None Do As Ye Will 38 Caesarean Fiction 39 Descent of the Maiden 40 One Evil Man 41 Blind Casting 42 Heart Attacks 43 Good Girl 44 Small Town Lies 45 Red Hook 46 The Clearing 47 Witches Can't Fly 48 The Withered 49 Hex 55 entries, though.   6 pissers?

5 did not meet the requirements (too long, too late, no witches or warlocks, not horror)
1 submitted without an email address

Don

One other point that hasn't been made yet...and even though I haven't been here long I have seen this at work even with the few things I've posted:

If there's criticism that may be too harsh or unwarrented, this community ends up balancing it out. Either someone responds to harsh criticism and there's a debate with those that disagree...or there's positives left by someone else that appreciated the script more without engaging earlier comments.

I've learned not to underestimate this community's ability to disagree each other (all things considered, I think everyone gets along here pretty well...or maybe we just have the best moderators on the internet).

Regardless, things tend to balance themselves out.

If something is universally panned here, then it likely got what it deserved and the author needs to figure out why it didn't work.

Anyway, I learned to trust the feedback I received here and take everything in, good and bad.

On a lot of the scripts I've been reading or glancing at, I've seen a few reviewers talk about "orphans" consistently.

Can someone please give me an example of what one is, and maybe show how to correct it? I would like to avoid doing this myself in future writing.

Quoted from Neighbour On a lot of the scripts I've been reading or glancing at, I've seen a few reviewers talk about "orphans" consistently. Can someone please give me an example of what one is, and maybe show how to correct it? I would like to avoid doing this myself in future writing.

An orphan is a line of either or action or dialogue that only consists of a single word that'd look something like
this.

Seemingly harmless but if there's a lot of them, they end up wasting valuable space on the page and potentially upping your page count or just general length of your script. Also, to me, they just look plain sloppy.

Orphans occur when words hit some kind of margin and get tossed onto a new line. Fixing them entails rewriting the sentence somehow to make it so that doesn't happen. It takes a little figuring but it's so easy, often requiring the removal of a single word or letter to make it work, which is why I personally don't take them lightly. I think if you have to sacrifice a solid line of action or dialogue that wouldn't work as well otherwise, you might consider leaving a given orphan but I think this should be done sparingly and with good judgment. I think orphans overall should be kept to an absolute minimum however I would generally shoot to have absolutely zero given how easy they are to fix.

Quoted from James McClung An orphan is a line of either or action or dialogue that only consists of a single word that'd look something like this. Seemingly harmless but if there's a lot of them, they end up wasting valuable space on the page and potentially upping your page count or just general length of your script. Also, to me, they just look plain sloppy. Orphans occur when words hit some kind of margin and get tossed onto a new line. Fixing them entails rewriting the sentence somehow to make it so that doesn't happen. It takes a little figuring but it's so easy, often requiring the removal of a single word or letter to make it work, which is why I personally don't take them lightly. I think if you have to sacrifice a solid line of action or dialogue that wouldn't work as well otherwise, you might consider leaving a given orphan but I think this should be done sparingly and with good judgment. I think orphans overall should be kept to an absolute minimum however I would generally shoot to have absolutely zero given how easy they are to fix.

Thank you for explaining! I understand it now for sure. At first I thought an orphan was like a one word sentence, since I see a lot of that in action paragraphs in scripts. But now I get it and I agree they should be cleaned up as it would look a lot more professional and cleanly written!

Quoted from RadioShea89 Though the explanations in favor of the grading system are worthy, I tend to agree with LC that this can sway a person's initial impression either more in favor or against the merits of a script. I am reading through several scripts, and then writing my reviews in Word to be posted later. After I've written the review in Word, only then do I read the reviews to see other folks thoughts. It may cause some redundancy in the reviews, but I feel it's more fair to the author. If I read Dreamscape's reviews before writing my own thoughts, I'm not sure I'd ever see good in ANY script. No offense, Dreamscape, but man you are rough. I think anyone who went through the trouble of creating a story deserves a complete read-through - there might be a gem you missed on page 5, because you clicked out of the script on page 3 to start your review. Personally I don't think it's fair to even review something that hasn't been given complete consideration. That being said, Dreamscape, a couple of years ago you lambasted one of my scripts and made me wonder if I should even be writing. It did humble me though and taught me to take the craft of screenwriting even more seriously. This fact lead to me landing a script assignment for a 30 minute short. The film ultimately won a Gold Remi award at the WorldFest Houston Film Festival this past spring. So glad my self-esteem didn't take too much of a wallop or I never would have seen my work on the big screen. Dreamscape was pretty rough on my OWC too, (but at least it seems he finished the script, so that's an improvement in my favor!), so there's hope out there for those of you getting killed on your reviews. Good luck!

I completely agree with these comments.  If you took everything serious, you may never have won that competition.  I'm pleased to hear you won too!  I'm sure if it wasn't so rough in the beginning and more welcoming, you'd have participated more often and not feel like you're on the outside looking in.  Jeff has been rough for a very long time.  I think the best practice is to just ignore it.  

For all we want is helpful reminders, tips, pointers, ideas for story progression, whatever.  When a script is met with negativity without so much of a positive line, then that's bad in my book.  And saying lines like well done for taking part, for completing script, is just wasted words, that doesn't curtail a bad/rough review.

There is no point in leaving a review to say you've not read the script.

There's no point is saying that it was that bad you couldn't even get past the first page.

If you've you're not going to read it, what's the point in leaving a review.

And if you read the script, don't just leave bad comments, copy & paste text from the script and go, look, this text you wrote, it's bad.  Doesn't help anyone.  Back up any reasons for your points with perhaps helpful pointers...  

Who knows, the next person that could win a competition might not feel so alienated and stay on the site for longer, as opposed to not to participate any further, not knowing what might have been because of their first ever attempt at writing a script or even second attempt...

Also agree with LC.  Doesn't feel like the spirit of the competition when the competition is about taking part, not where you'd end up if there was a ranking system.

I don't disagree with being rough or any one's reviewing style but I have read a few scripts that got a lot better as they progressed.

Also, sometimes a really harsh comment can ruin a person's whole day or week, maybe even make them feel depressed or break their heart.

But here's the thing: I'm assuming that's the way show business is sometimes. Harsh. So people would do well by getting used to it.

I got some harsh reviews, but I was expecting that. I'm still completely new to screenwriting and I hope to take in something negative, and throw back a positive later down the road. I'm sure that's what they hope too.

...unless a person's intention is completely malicious, and then that just REALLY bothers me, as it would anyone.

EDIT:/// Also I was lazy with my script and did not put nearly enough effort into it. I knew it was shit when I sent it in. But you know what? Harsh comments will make sure that I don't do that again next time. That before submitting anything I should put a lot of effort into it.

Quoted from James McClung An orphan is a line of either or action or dialogue that only consists of a single word that'd look something like this.

Unbelievable.  So that's an orphan.  As many reviews as I've read from Dreamscale I should've known this by now. I always thought an orphan was something else.

Quoted from jayrex I completely agree with these comments.

Thanks for understanding my point, Jayrex. I don't think negative comments do us any good unless they are backed up with at least one example from the script. Only THEN do I consider that constructive criticism, which I think anyone worthy of being called a "writer" would actually appreciate.

I understand about orphans, but I consider orphans to be one of those structural issues you clean up in later drafts. I'm not convinced it's fair to glance through a script and scream "orphans" on a challenge in which you only had one week to drum up memorable characters and a coherent plot.

Point out that there are orphans, sure. But in a challenge such as this, how about paying more attention to the "meat" of the story and MAJOR structural flaws?

Quoted from KevinLenihan Ray, all of that would be true...if...these were features. And if...these were pro readers. Neither applies. If someone stops reading my feature, I ALWAYS want to know what page. I've asked that question many times. I thank the reader for getting to where he did, and I ask where he stopped and why. But this is the OWC thread. We are talking about OWCs being reviewed by amateurs, not features being sifted through for possible production material. Apples to oranges, sir. A script written in 7 days is not expected to be perfect....a feature sent to a studio IS expected to be highly polished. And the OWC is a prid quo affair. You read others and expect others to read yours. If the very first review says "stopped after page 1", it discourages other readers from reading. Why should that writer read others scripts then? And these are NOT pro readers here, though there is really no such thing. I've seen people put down scripts because the Fade In was on the "wrong" side. I've seen people stop because they don't like bold slugs or because they don't believe in flashbacks or wrylies or orphans. Paid studio readers DO NOT put down scripts for those reasons. Ray, your comments are perfectly relevant for a feature posted here. They are perfectly irrelevant for an OWC script. And I have seen some of the scripts where this has happened, and they are written and formatted fine...they just don't happen to match up with the pet peeves of the reviewer. Someone shouldn't bring pet peeves to this, especially in matters that have nothing to do with story or competence, but rather were the choice of the writer. Pro readers don't bring peeves like that. They do their job.

Totally on the same page, Kevin. Thanks for posting.

I can honestly say that Jeff's or anyone' else's review or page 2 shutdown doesn't influence me residing a particular script. If anything I will crack the script to have a look.

I'll be honest here too and say that I have read a number of scripts in this OWC but haven't left any comments because they were pretty tough on the eye. I didn't see the point when other reviews have pointed out the problems.

Too many of the budgets to actually film these in live action are monstrous.
Guilty myself.

Do you guys realize how easy it is to fabricate out of the clear blue sky all sorts of wacky crazy stories - and - how hard it is to actually fund these things through KickStarter or IndieGoGo?
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/short%20film?ref=sidebar
http://www.indiegogo.com/proje.....er_quick=popular_all

Are you guys writing for fine literature or to actually get produced?

(Almost) No one makes money off shorts.
These guys do:
http://www.statsheep.com/smosh
http://www.statsheep.com/nigahiga
http://www.statsheep.com/freddiew

But all this cast of dozens in elaborate locations is just... dumbfounding.

On top of that I'm reading too much fantasy, not enough horror.

Furthermore, I guess I completely misinterpreted

Quoted from Don Topic: Modern Witches (or Warlocks) Genre: Horror

as NOT meaning "Ye olde witches of Salem and medieval tymes" in a modern setting.

Whatevs.

Quoted from RayW you anxious nubes gotta quit outting yourselves a few days into this.

I hope it's understood why I outted myself.  I didn't want to take reads from people who had finished theirs. I'm going to assume you weren't labeling me a nube since this is my 6th OWC.    

Hey! Greetings to all members. I write screenplays for 6 years until now.  By exploring web in case of screenwriting, for that time, I can say, you all are a part of one of the very best sites.  I've been a silent reader for a long time. A few years, I think.

To be honest, I don't know where this membership will go, because I realized, as non-native speaker, that I will not be able to write/transport the pictures in the way I want to present them to readers/viewers. So I will not make a separated introduction-thread or hello- thread whatever.

With submitting a script for OWC I think it's also on me to give some feedback on scripts.
I don't think I get reviewed them all, I'll try, and I start now by random choice.

I will not use much help of dict this time, because of the quantity. So please refer to the content and try to read over the form if you want to get my opinion.

I'm getting a little bit long now, but want to say some last things referring to my reviews: I will talk about pictures, images, impressions, shots, concept, about film,

nothing about the writing, writers style, and I also try to avoid commenting on the dialogue, due to the fact I can't qualitatively.
I try to reflect the problems I had myself with my script, regarding to language and expression; will read through, to get even the core of works with similar problems.

Here we go.

Mosby

Maybe for 2014: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/gallery/15-horror-movies-offered-bang-649755

Maybe I'll get back to this article and compare those revenues to IMDB viewer ratings.
I expect the ratings to be relatively low indicating that marketing and promotion are considerably more important than content. Not to burst your creative bubbles or anything.

The Conjuring Ratings: 7.6/10 from 101,798 users
Budget: $20 million vs. Revenue: $297.4 million

Paranormal Activity 3: 5.9/10 from 56,045 users
Budget: $5 million vs. Revenue: $207 million

Paranormal Activity: 6.3/10 from 137,394 users
Budget: $15,000 vs. Revenue: $193.4 million

Paranormal Activity 2: 5.6/10 from 59,622 users
Budget: $3 million vs. Revenue: $177.5 million

Mama: 6.3/10 from 67,243 users
Budget: $15 million vs. Revenue: $146.4 million

Paranormal Activity 4: 4.4/10 from 32,179 users
Budget: $5 million vs. Revenue: $140.8 million

Saw 3D: 5.5/10 from 47,353 users
Budget: $20 million vs. Revenue: $136.2 million

The Woman in Black: 6.4/10 from 92,453 users
Budget: $15 million vs. Revenue: $127.7 million

The Devil Inside: 4.1/10 from 24,621 users
Budget: $1 million vs. Revenue: $101.4 million

Evil Dead: 6.5/10 from 72,697 users
Budget: $17 million vs. Revenue: $97.5 million

Insidious: 6.7/10 from 107,031 users
Budget: $1.5 million vs. Revenue: $97 million

Insidious Chapter 2: 7.0/10 from 15,062 users
Budget: $5 million vs Revenue: $87.3 million

The Purge: 5.5/10 from 41,925 users
Budget: $3 million vs. Revenue: $87.1 million

Sinister: 6.7/10 from 71,307 users
Budget: $3 million vs Revenue: $77.7 million

The Last Exorcism: 5.6/10 from 32,109 users
Budget: $1.8 million vs. Revenue: $67.7 million


Marketing is more important than product, FYI.

I'm going to offer some friendly opinion, advice I have offered before...people can make up their own minds. I don't have time for a big argument over it, but feel free to chip in.

A couple of years ago I posted a link to the Scriptshadow blog because at the time, if you got on his mailing list, he would send out 5 or 6 pro scripts a week.

Writers need to read pro scripts. Current pro level spec scripts.

Carson no longer sends them out, so people are on their own. But start with this: find the black list scripts from each year, and get the scripts Carson reviews on his blog.

Now, someone is going to insist that just because a script is pro means nothing. Maybe, for example, the writer married into the Weinstein family, or maybe just got lucky with a killer idea. OK, that happens.

But most of these scripts are pro for a reason. Don't doubt that. Read as many as you can.

You've heard a lot here about "unfilmables" and asides, and about "proper" slugs, and about "novelistic" description, and even about using "we" or "us" in action lines. And also, of course, about passive verb use.

And it's important to learn all that stuff, don't get me wrong. But then it's important to read pro scripts and see the difference between rules and rules of thumb. When you see a pro writer bend a rule, take a close look, and you can usually see why. It's not because the pro doesn't understand the rule.  It's because he has chosen the most effective way to convey the story to someone who might be interested in turning his script into a movie.

Each writer develops his own way of doing it. That's part of his voice. But if you pick up 20 pro scripts, you will not find a single one that does not bend the rules in some ways. Just think about that for a moment.

And if you are a newer writer, and a veteran amateur writer insists you conform to these "rules" in an inflexible way, ask them politely...politely...to suggest a pro script that is a good model for the rules they advocate so strenously. If they cannot suggest a single pro spec script that conforms to the type of screenwriting they insist is "correct", doesn't that tell you something? Doesn't it?

Hey Ray, wasn't the budget for The Purge $3 million, not $5? Think HR got that one wrong.

Of course, that just makes the profit margin that much more impressive. Is it any wonder so many prods are trying to copy the Blumhouse model now? Most of the movies in this list are theirs.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If they cannot suggest a single pro spec script that conforms to the type of screenwriting they insist is "correct", doesn't that tell you something? Doesn't it?

Yessir.
It means you can lead a young bull to a herd but you can't make them understand what to do with the cows.

I agree that "insisting" on much of anything beyond basic formatting is a bit quixotic
I also think pro-amatures can only point the running nubes in a GD hurry in the right direction then let them fend for themselves while the pro-ams walk down to the valley to service all them cows.

Take it. Leave it.
Conform, or don't. Don't matter to me.
I got plenty of screenplay options to select from to produce.

It's a lot like dating: Shower. Shave. Brush teeth. Brush hair. Wear clean clothes. Have something more interesting to say than "I like your boobs."

If she can't get past the general dishevelment and sophomoric proclamations then you're not even really competing.

"But it what's on the INSIDE that counts!"
Oh, grow up.
There's fifty other jokers in line behind you and they all want a crack at my boobs.
Next!

Likewise:
"But it what's on the INSIDE of my screenplay that counts!"
Oh, grow up.
There's fifty other screenwriters in line behind you and they all want a crack at my financing.
Next!

Quoted from ReneC Hey Ray, wasn't the budget for The Purge $3 million, not $5? Think HR got that one wrong.

Yessir! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2184339/business?ref_=tt_dt_bus

Quoted Text Is it any wonder so many prods are trying to copy the Blumhouse model now? Most of the movies in this list are theirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumhouse_Productions
http://www.imdb.com/company/co0098315/

That wiki "model description" is a bit weak, but I certainly do appreciate the general idea!

Quoted from KevinLenihan ...Writers need to read pro scripts. Current pro level spec scripts. ... You've heard a lot here about "unfilmables" and asides, and about "proper" slugs, and about "novelistic" description, and even about using "we" or "us" in action lines. And also, of course, about passive verb use... ... And it's important to learn all that stuff, don't get me wrong. But then it's important to read pro scripts and see the difference between rules and rules of thumb. When you see a pro writer bend a rule, take a close look, and you can usually see why. It's not because the pro doesn't understand the rule.  It's because he has chosen the most effective way to convey the story to someone who might be interested in turning his script into a movie. Each writer develops his own way of doing it. That's part of his voice. But if you pick up 20 pro scripts, you will not find a single one that does not bend the rules in some ways. Just think about that for a moment. And if you are a newer writer, and a veteran amateur writer insists you conform to these "rules" in an inflexible way, ask them politely...politely...to suggest a pro script that is a good model for the rules they advocate so strenously. If they cannot suggest a single pro spec script that conforms to the type of screenwriting they insist is "correct", doesn't that tell you something? Doesn't it?

Absolutely agree with Kev on this. The thing is 'story' is key and the ability to weave all of those things mentioned above (we-see's/asides/unfilmables) deftly and with a professional writing style.

The reason 'we see', for example will stick out like a sore thumb in 'beginner' screenplays (as opposed to amateur - pro just means I've been paid) is generally because all of the other writing surrounding it is not constructed well and falls well below par. If you write like a pro you can pretty much break every rule in the book 'cause you have the ability to make it look good.

The thing is, not only is story king, but studying it is fascinating. Just taking a movie or a TV show and breaking down the reasons why you are reacting or not reacting to a scene is endlessly interesting and instructive.

Here's an example: in True Grit, Mattie catches up to Cogsburn and the Texas Ranger at the river. They forcefully send her away while they cross over on the ferry. But she breaks free of her captor and takes her horse across the harrowing river.

I would have screwed up what comes next if I had written the story. I would have had Mattie arrive on the opposite bank, drenched and exhausted, and looking up to see the distant silhouettes of Cogsburn and the Ranger riding off. She would then have to find the strength and determination to catch them.

But that's not how they did it. Instead, Cogsburn and the Ranger watch her struggle across the river. For the first time, Cogsburn is impressed. When Mattie arrives, the ranger proceeds to give her a switching, and she cries to Cogsburn for help. He thinks if over. This is a weird scene. If I was writing it, I would have stopped myself thinking it was too weird. But I would have been wrong.

Cogsburn pulls his gun on the ranger and stops the switching forcefully.

The whole scene is powerful, and works because of the set up. We saw in the first act that Mattie has lost her father, and she is very stubborn and willful. So she has a need for a father figure, and it has to be someone tough enough and stubborn enough to stand up to her.

Meanwhile, Cogsburn is a tough old marshal and a lonely drunk living in a storeroom on a cot. Clearly these two need each other. We sense it, we want it to happen. When Cogsburn watches her cross the river, we feel the bond connecting for the first time. When he stands up for her against the Ranger, the bond is cemented. It's the emotional center point of the story. Nothing is more important than this bond, and it was established dramatically and powerfully. And this connection moves us only because the set up was so careful and effective.

That's the kind of stuff we need to study. Why do things move us? Why do we care about a character, or the connection between characters?

Because it's not just random. There is technique used...and structure. A wide variety of it. So much to study and learn from.

When I look at the reviews of OWCs, I would like to see more of that discussion. What makes us want to turn from page to page? Are there puzzles we need to see solved? Mystery boxes revealed? Characters we need to see what happens to?

Rene left some good reviews today where he did some of that. Others have too. I just want to see more of that. If we don't care about the characters in the stories, why not? Because if we don't, the stories are empty.

I think if we focus more on story, we will all become better writers. We'll write stories people react to. Writing can always be polished. But in reality, it's stories that get made into films, not screenplays.

Oh, Kevin...damn, bro...really?

How many movies are produced each year?  Pretty much an impossible question to answer, but let's talk about English speaking movies...500?  750?

How many of these "Professional" productions are even remotely decent or good?

If we listen to you, the answer is most likely, every single one of them, right?

What's the real answer though?  20?  25?  50?  Yeah, probably somewhere on the lower side of any of these numbers.

But how could that be, because a Pro knows how to write character and story and they can break any and all "rules" because tehy're a Pro, right?

WRONG.

Most Pro writers are terrible and the movies they're asociated with only proves this over and over again.

What you should really be preaching is to watch movies that suck and understand why they suck. Where did the writer go wrong?  What can I do to write a better script, make a better widget, show all those Pros what they should be doing.

If something sucks, it sucks and it doesn't matter who's behind it or what name it goes by.  Don't be such a follower, and praise everything that's praised, when in reality it shold be shunned and booed.

Jeff, if I was a follower, would I be making waves in here like I do? Who am I following?

But yes, there are things to be learned from bad movies.

However...you have revealed your position for the absurdity it is, which should be really instructive to new writers here.

New writers:

Jeff's position is that we need to "show all the pros what they should be doing".

My position: read pro scripts. They each have their own style and voice, so it's not a matter of copying, but read and learn. There is much to be learned. Then develop your own style.

Jeff, can you give us an example of one script that was bought by a studio and that meets your standard? Can you show us one? Thousands are optioned every year, hundreds filmed. Please give us one we can look at. There must be one.

I'm confused here. Jeff, are you saying that screenplays written with perfect formatting and perfect English make better films than movies made from scripts with more emotional pull, but sucky grammar and shitty slugs?

It is all about telling a unique story guys...that reads easy/fast...and intrigues the reader. I can promise you, the director does not give a shit about a misspelled word or a slug issue.

Also...like anything....screenwriting is changing as fast as anything else. Old rules are changing. Read pro scripts...keep up with how they look.

Quoted from Dreamscale What you should really be preaching is to watch movies that suck and understand why they suck. Where did the writer go wrong?  What can I do to write a better script, make a better widget, show all those Pros what they should be doing.

Agreed, and just the tip of the production iceberg.

Once the almighty spec screenplay is accepted then it's invariably going to be rewritten to accommodate the producer's cast, crew, equipment, location, budgeting, and marketing resources. LOL!

Oh! Oh! Oh! And then... And then, once the producers and directors and distributors and the finance people sign off on the "finalized" "locked screenplay" to proceed with actual pre-production - guess what happens to the holy locked script?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_script#Overview
"Revision pages are distributed on colored paper, a different color for each set of revisions, with each changed line marked by an asterisk in the right margin of the page. The progression of colors varies from one production to the next, but a typical sequence would be: white, blue, pink, yellow, green, goldenrod, buff, salmon, cherry, tan, ivory, white (this time known as "double white"), and back to blue ("double blue")."

LOL!
That's industry standard!
Just how many permutations of your holy, second re-write (if not script doctored ghost re-written) "locked screenplay" do you think are possible?

How about you read the production story for 'Salt' and consider how much changes from the source screenplay to what ends up on screen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(2010_film)#Production
BTW, that isn't in the least bit uncommon, just a good documentation of what happens.

Watch about fifty writer/director/actor/producer commentaries on DVD or BluRay.
Take written notes about all the changes from script to screen.
The budget forces changes.
The secured locations forces changes.
The director makes on the fly changes.
The actors all want to make a bazillion changes on each and every single line of action and dialog.
The editor selects the best takes from what's provided and hatchets out a "fat cut".
This is whittled down to a pre-distributor approval cut.
The distributor makes changes.
Then the MPAA makes changes.

Now - what is on the screen compared to what you wrote?

Pfft.

Okay, okay, okay. All that's bullsh!t, right?
Of course it is.

Then just consider the DVD/BR bonus extras of A) deleted scenes, and B) alternate scenes.

Consider the cost to shoot those scenes only to NOT include them in the final cut.
We're talking tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per screen minute of essentially trash.

And someone wants to quibble over whether to fight for their right to include epic monstrosities such as:

     We see BOB, a good natured thoughtful man somewhere in his
     forties but could easily pass for thirty, warily walking down the
     great wall of chinese with a bag of sandwitches prepared just the
     way his deceased grandmother, whom he loved very much,
     taught him to when he was a lad of six.

No.
Not only am I'm not reading 90 - 100 pages of that but screenwriter agents are not going to either, and they are your gatekeepers to big budget directors and producers.

So, you can play in the sandbox with -ly and -ing words, no ages after character intros followed with overly lengthy character descriptions, slelling & glamaticle errers, and unfilmables galore - but... your disrespectful pseudo-hard work will be wasted until you learn to comply with some industry standards.

Now, if you wanna write for yourself to film then... you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Gopherit!
Otherwise...

Quoted from Grandma Bear I'm confused here. Jeff, are you saying that screenplays written with perfect formatting and perfect English make better films than movies made from scripts with more emotional pull, but sucky grammar and shitty slugs?

No, Pia, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that the vast majority, and I mean VAST MAJORITY of Professional scripts turned into movies are extremely poorly written.

It just may be that these so called writers are able to trick the idiot Producers into thinking they've written a great script, by using cute, cool, andwhatever else one would want toc all it "gimmicks", like asides, unfilmables, etc.

The truth is that those who don't know (and it appears many money men and women fall into this category) think a script is good, when it's hip or the likem when in reality, it sucks ass and it becomes clear when you strip all the BS away - you're left with another crappy script that turns into another crappy movie.

Kev, I'm not going to even attempt to throw out 1, 5, or 10 scripts that conform to what I preach.  Sorry, and if that makes my points mute, moot, or total BS, so be it.

Fill your scripts with worthless asides, unfilmables, tell us stuff that in theory we'll learn up front, write in fragments, forget about punctuation, litter the damn thing with orphans and wonder why your 100 page script clocks in at 80 minutes of film.

Some of my supporting homework:
http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1291072262/s-all/

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-screenwrite/m-1291999212/s-new/

https://docs.google.com/docume.....amp;authkey=CJXH2tEH


Oh! Here's where I broke down the difference between the screenplay for 'Black Swan' and the released film:
https://docs.google.com/spread.....;usp=drive_web#gid=0

IOW - no one cares if you fight for SOME things, but other things ARE important.
Recognize which is which and just... don't mess up your own chances just for the reason "to be an individual." (OMG.)

Ray, if you need them, I have a lot of black list scripts. You can develop and decide what style gives you the best shot to get by the gatekeepers. Not copying...developing. I am in favor of what works. I respect standards, but don't think anyone should make a fetish out of them. Make it look and smell like a pro script, and that's enough for a pro reader. After that, use what best enables you to engage the reader.

'Preciate it.

Write and direct your own film does the trick.

And even then, marketing is more important than content.

If that's what you are doing, awesome...best of luck with the project.

Just read this, screenplay pilot for new AMC show.


INT. HONKY TONK BAR -- NIGHT

SUPER: TEN MONTHS LATER

An honest to God COWBOY drops in a quarter, makes his punch
button selections on a jukebox. Two seconds pass until the
machine lets loose with STEEL GUITAR and MERLE HAGGARD.

The cowboy takes his mug of beer from atop the juke and
actually moseys through a late night crowd of legitimate and
gregarious country western folk spanning generations.

ANGLE ON the bar itself, tracking across its patrons--all
tough men in hats, jeans--ladies with perms, chewing gum,
heavy eyeshadow.

THE LAST MAN AT THE BAR sticks out like a sore thumb. He
isn’t country; hell, he ain’t much of anything. Ragged hair,
big glasses, thick unkempt mustache. Lots of empty mugs.

This is GORDON CLARK (31).

Check this out...I'm going to stick up for Jeff here. I think it's important to get reviews like his because there are a lot of pro readers out there who'd stop reading after page 1 if they saw some mistakes or amateur writing like he points out. Of course we all want to hear what people think of our story but if there are issues that keep a handful of seasoned readers from reading my story...I want to know. You have no control over who reads your work when you submit it...and it could be a JEFF!!  There are probably more Jeffs out there than you think. Imagine how many amateur screenplays some of these people have to read a week.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If that's what you are doing, awesome...best of luck with the project.

Thank you.

Best of luck with your projects, as well.

Quoted from mmmarnie There are probably more Jeffs out there than you think. Imagine how many amateur screenplays some of these people have to read a week.

Bingo.

Don't knowingly handicap yourself.

Only problem, Marn, is this: I have most of the black list scripts for the last few years. I bet there is not a single one Jeff would not put down after a few pages. Not a single one.

Jeff has a lot to offer. I just think he would have more to offer if he would do what screenwriting standards always are...and that is evolving. It's a literary form that is only a century old. It's evolving.

Thanks, Marnie and Ray.  As I always say, I truly mean to help in everything I say.  My opinion is not the end all by any means, but at the same time, I doubt anything I say isn't on point.

Kev, I apologize, because I don't want to argue or piss around with you or anyone.  It's foolish, immature, and serves no real purpose.

I honestly believe that no one can or will "make it" in this industry unless they know how to write a sentence, a passage, a Slug, etc. and the bottom line is that, based on the vast majority of examples "we see", that's what we're dealing with.

Most peeps don't point out obvious things like this and I honestly don't know if it's because they don't want to be an ass or they honestly don't know themselves what's wrong.

I only point things out and bring things up, because I see them and I can't help but point out mistakes when they are glaring to the point where I don't want to go any further.

God bless all those who don't see or don't care, but Marnie is right - many do and I think we've all heard stories about the reader who threw a script away for this or that. Why start off behind the the line?  Why wave red flags, when you don't have to?

That ellusive fantastic story, character, or the whole 9 yards doesn't come along very often - why not do what you can every time and put your best foot forward and show you're a writer who knows his or her shit?  You know?  Why not?  How could that be a bad thing?

I may be harsh and tough, but if you look back in time, I think you'll find that the best teachers give it out straight up and don't accept anything but the best.

That's all I really preach.  Great stories and characters are like comedy - it's a personal taste.

Great writing, strong writing, solid grammar, etc, really shouldn't ever be a topic for discussion, as it is what it is, and those in the know, will know.

Peace out.

Jeff is the Simon Cowell of Simply Scripts. You do run into those once in a while so here is our own personal insight into issues that irk the more hard core types.  And some of those readers are old school and always will be old school.  

I think for the most part though, it's lazy writing that irks most. Bad spelling, grammar or just not taking the time to learn proper formatting.

We all have our peeves. I'm not a slug nut because I break the rules there myself, but for me...I can't stand camera direction and writers seem to always defend their camera directions.  

Quoted from stevie I can honestly say that Jeff's or anyone' else's review or page 2 shutdown doesn't influence me residing a particular script. If anything I will crack the script to have a look. I'll be honest here too and say that I have read a number of scripts in this OWC but haven't left any comments because they were pretty tough on the eye. I didn't see the point when other reviews have pointed out the problems.

That's usually my mantra. I'll read them, but if most comments take care of most of what I have to say, my words will be few, if any. That said, there's 50 some short scripts. And I won't say to any one of the writers "you're a bad writer" or "looks like this was rushed" (*a complete dull thing to say in a OWC- Most are written in less than a week, I would think!) and everyone, even the SS seasoned such as myself wiill miss a few things here and there. I'm no Mr Perfecto in OWCs.. In fact, when I rewrite my thing, I'm going to drop the last three pages and go for another angle, so to speak.

However, if there's anything, good or bad that other folks didn't mention or mention enough, by all means bring up the subject. Or even if you like something that most seem to not like or the other way around.

It's a OWC. It should discourage nobody.

Jeff, the issue is that you often confuse great writing with writing by the "rules". There is a huge difference.

The pros don't break the rules because they don't understand them or because they are lazy. They break the rules when and where it enables them to more effectively and efficiently convey their story. If the writing was really what you cared about, you would be open to that.

I want to add that I don't at all appreciate your questioning my motives in my reviews. I am not going to reply in the thread you raised your insane accusation because it is off the topic of the script and unfair to the writer.

I give honest reviews, and you know it. We just see scripts differently. If a script is formatted well and written decently, throw in something graphic, and you love it. That's how you rank your scripts. No matter how absurd the story is, if it has proper slug use and an exploding head or some memorable dismemberment or demons beheaded by costume machetes, you love it. Fine. That's your view.

For me, if a story is imperfectly written but has interesting characters that we care what happens to, or it has a compelling mystery that moves the story, or maybe just something really clever, I think the work has merit. The writing can always be polished.

While you are busy chasing windmills and hoping to teach the pros how to write "correctly", I am just trying to learn what works in story. There are other writers who feel the same way.

Quoted from ReneC Is it any wonder so many prods are trying to copy the Blumhouse model now? Most of the movies in this list are theirs.

A peek at history: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089658/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

Lookit what he produced before 'PA': http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089658/#producer

Quoted from KevinLenihan Jeff, the issue is that you often confuse great writing with writing by the "rules". There is a huge difference.

Totally untrue, Kevin.  Unless by rules, you're talking about sentence structure, proper grammar use, proper punctuation, visual, clear writing, and lean, tight, easy to read writing.

The real problem is that "our argument" will go on forever, because you honestly don't get it, or just won't admit it.

Quoted from KevinLenihan The pros don't break the rules because they don't understand them or because they are lazy. They break the rules when and where it enables them to more effectively and efficiently convey their story. If the writing was really what you cared about, you would be open to that.

And there you go again with that same blanket statement about "Pro writers" not being able to do wrong because they're Pro writers.  Do you feel the same about Pro athletes? Do you honestly think because they're Pros, they can't do anythign incorrect, have a bad game, or just flat out suck?  What's with the strange infatuation with Pro writers?  Damn, bro, I don't get it!

Quoted from KevinLenihan I want to add that I don't at all appreciate your questioning my motives in my reviews. I am not going to reply in the thread you raised your insane accusation because it is off the topic of the script and unfair to the writer.

Well, I'm sorry about that, but as I said, I don't appreciate you glowing over obviously pathetically written garbage and shooting down the few well written scripts.  You know, it's all fine and cool to write a glowing review on your own script, and most of us not only do it, but have been doing it for years, but most of us don't make it so damn obvious.

Quoted from KevinLenihan I give honest reviews, and you know it. We just see scripts differently.

I can't say I do know that, Kev, at least not based on your reviews this OWC.  I may not have read the entire script for every single entry, but I did read many entire scripts, and at times, my eyes bug out of my head when I read your reviews.

Quoted from KevinLenihan If a script is formatted well and written decently, throw in something graphic, and you love it. That's how you rank your scripts. No matter how absurd the story is, if it has proper slug use and an exploding head or some memorable dismemberment or demons beheaded by costume machetes, you love it. Fine. That's your view.

This is downright horseshit, and you fucking know it.  If a script is well written, that will most likely be the first thing I remark on, because it occurrs so rarely, especially in an OWC.  It's a welcome relief - it's like travelling in a 3rd world country, where every hotel you room you wlk into, you roll your eyes and say, "Really?  What the fuck?", and then you finally check into a clean, nice room.

Your comments about graphic this or that, is also BS, and you know it.  In fact, if you actually read what I say in reviews, I often complain about action being too over the top, cartoon-like, unrealistic, etc.

Exploding heads and dismemberment?  Sure, they have their place, used in the right context, but that doesn't make a script good vs. the script without either.

You're being riduculous with these comments and you know it.

Quoted from KevinLenihan For me, if a story is imperfectly written but has interesting characters that we care what happens to, or it has a compelling mystery that moves the story, or maybe just something really clever, I think the work has merit. The writing can always be polished.

The writing can always be polished?  By who?  You know one reason most movies really suck?  It's because writers have that same attitude and don't understand how important attention to detail is.  You know what happens when it comes time to shoot?  No one did that polish, no one spent the time to address little details that make and break scripts and movies.  And, sadly, no one even fucking realized that the script needed polish.

Quoted from KevinLenihan While you are busy chasing windmills and hoping to teach the pros how to write "correctly", I am just trying to learn what works in story. There are other writers who feel the same way.

A nice analogy there, Kevin.  Well done.

Obviously, I won't be teaching any Pros how to write, and according to you, Pros can do no wrong, so they have nothing to learn.  They know exactly what they're doing and because they're Pros, their work is perfect and everytime they break a rule, it's because it's the very best way to get across whateve tehy needed to get across.

As I've said many times, if you really want to learn what works and doesn't work in story, character, action, everythign, don't just read your award winning screenplays and don't just watch the top 5% of the films out there.  Get down on your belly and wade through the shit, and you'll see exactly what doesn't work and why, and then, you can write your masterpiece by breaking every rule you can think of, and honestly believe that you're doing it simply because that's the best way to do it.