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stevie
Posted: March 12th, 2009, 7:41pm Report to Moderator
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Ok, I'm back. My son is asleep so I have at least an hour!
I wanted to outline some of the writing history of this story.  As I said before, I started it 5 years ago, as a novella. Back then, I had no computer, so it was all hand-written! i still have folders of unused stuff under my bed. No doubt, this will be produced as evidence, in the future, as the cause of my decaying sanity!?
The original premise was simply about two Beatle fans, who acquire a time machine. One just happened to be the spitting image of the young Ringo Starr(and also played drums). So he goes back in time, kidnaps Ringo and takes his place!  I wanted to show the intimate life of the Beatles circle, amongst all the mania. Anyway, this all became a bit silly so I canned it, and eventually it became Liam and Pete finding the time phone( i didn't have an origin for it). They make a list of events in history they might change - john's murder, 9/11, Lady Di's death, etc - and pick the former as the 'easiest".   At this stage, this was no prof. lincoln, no climate change mission, it was simply them trying to save John.  They still met Llarry in 1980, still got killed by Chapman, buried, etc.  In 2005, Larry sees them at JFK a susual, but Errol was alive in this version. He and Larry realise the truth, dig up the phone. They go back to 9/11 first, to rescue Carole. But they are 'invisible' to all in the Tower, a block by the time system. Errol gets stuck there, so Larry jumps to 1980, meets the boys and they go back to 9/11. Errol remains stuck , so Larry stays with him and Carole, to die, rather than face another loss. The boys leave, promising to try and save them one day. As they leave, Larry and Errol are suddenly visible to Ccarole -  the presence of the phone was the block.

Sorry for all the waffle but i needed get it out. Maybe someone will see something that could be used in a re-write.  Last year, we got a new computer and the Net on. I found celtx and was away! I started adapting 'Sent' to a screenplay. I made the major changes, introducing the professor and the climate mission. I felt the boys had to have a valid purpose for saving John. I didn't want to re-write history so they were never going to prevent his death( in one version, they die in the hail of bullets with him at the Dakota! Larry is first cop on the scene and Liam gives him the phone)
This too, is why they couldn't stop 9/11 -  it was too big an event. The backbone of the plot was more about the effort to TRY and save people.  Larry's case was different as he had a personal stake in it. Imagine finding a way to bring back lost family? I was trying to show the struggle in Larry's mind. The original had Errol and him arguing about rescuing Csarole and leaving the other people in the WTC to die.
I think that's why Errol's character comes over as sort of nothing - cos I changed his presence in the script, it gave him nothing to do . Valid point, escapist!
um, i won't carry on too much more. I tried to create my own set of rules for the time travel, which i feel every book or film on the subject should do. Then the viewer/reader knows early on what the go is. That why the professor gives all the info out - they can have only make one attempt, etc. Because he was introduced later in my writing, he does come over as a sort of controller.  I tried, also, to give the phone a mysterious power, apart from being the time machine. I hint at it having its own agenda, making sure it survives and is in postion to be retrieved by Larry. I was influenced here by Sauron's Ring in Tolkein, I suppose.  anyway, I hope this sheds some light on my whole concept and i haven't been too boring. Cheers, guys!



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rendevous
Posted: May 17th, 2009, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Stevie, just wondering if anything has happened with this since. I'm reading it now and enjoying it.


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stevie
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 2:36am Report to Moderator
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Hey man, thanks checking it out. Um, no, I haven't looked at it for a few months. Dreamscale gave me some good advice and I removed the wrylies from it (but not from the one you're reading). I've moved on to other projects since then. I'll get back to it at some stage. It's tough with that cos I'd been on the story for ages and it starting becoming a chore to me.
Actually the other day i was thinking of printing it out and going over it. Cheers.



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rendevous
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 4:33pm Report to Moderator
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I just completed reading this. I have to agree with the previous posts on most of the points made. I enjoyed the Lennon era a lot more than the Sept 11 stuff, I'm sure most don't want to revisit that event. I think quality wise the writing is a lot better at the beginning than later.

The Pete & Liam characters are too similar. Perhaps one of them could be a Macca fan instead of a Lennon one. Something along those lines to create a bit of conflict and difference between them.

I thought while reading that it would have been good if they did manage to save Lennon, if only for a little while, only for him to be killed by an accident later. Time correcting itself or the like. Personally it irked me to have Chapman around as a character, I know it's inevitable but, most folk would be really behind the lads trying to stop the loon before he could kill. I felt they didn't really even get the chance to stop him. There's a good scene there methinks.

This is a big complicated story here and for the most part it's been thought through well. You've obviously done your research. It does need a good rewrite, but that's not to take away from what you have achieved with this.    


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stevie
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 5:13pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks again rendevous. You make some good suggestions. I did have one alternate scenario where the boys save John but they die. But when Larry comes back to save them, this negates it all so John dies as in reality. It was something like that. I have pages and pages of stuff under my bed, dating back five years on this!
Also it could be interesting if one is a Macca fan ( I'd say you're English? They like to call Paul 'Macca') I agree they are very similiar characters.
So yeah, one day I'll get back to this one. It became very tiring working for so long on the same story. My mind went a bit numb so I wrote 2 comedies after this!
But your advice has given me fresh thought and I thank you. cheers



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michel
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from stevie
I'd say you're English? They like to call Paul 'Macca'

In France, we call him Popol


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rendevous
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 6:37pm Report to Moderator
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I'd say you're right Stevie, they do indeed call him Macca. Lennon fans are well known for disliking Macca fans, so there's plenty to mine away at there if you do fancy a rewrite. I'm glad it's given you fresh thought. I enjoyed the script a lot.


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stevie
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 8:12pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks again for the read, man. It's sort of funny when one of your 'older' scripts is plucked out of nowhere and read by a newcomer to SS.
Um, yeah i know the 9/11 stuff could be hard for some people to read about. But that is the key to the whole story really - it gives the impetus for Larry to travel back to save the boys, and hopefully save his wife and son.
About the Macca and Lennon fan enmity, yeah i find that sad meself. I'm a Beatle freak as you might have gathered and, really, none of their solo stuff is better than the best Beatles music. I know John and Paul went through that backstabbing stage after the break up but it was all petty shit in the end. They reconciled secretly and were good friends when John died; well, i hope they were, after their amazing journey with George and Ringo. Better go, I'm dribbling shit again! Cheers.a



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mike902018
Posted: May 19th, 2009, 7:23pm Report to Moderator
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I saw this is an old project so you're probably sick of going through it, but I've just read it and thought I'd drop you a message. The premise reminded me of the TV series 'Life on Mars' - no idea if you've seen that, but thats why I decided to take a look at your script.

I found it flowed nicely and was easy to read, it comes across as not being polished but the structure is there and with some work it could be a decent script. The sudden deaths of Liam and Pete did come as a shock to me, and it was refreshing that their (original) mission failed so badly. I liked the introduction of Larry and Carrole into the story, but I wanted to get to know the characters more, especially Pete and Liam. Also I found it a little too fast paced. I probably would've moved the Lennon assassination much further into the story, and allowed for Pete, Liam, Larry and Carrole to develop. Maybe show more of  P&L in New York, planning how to stop the murder or just them coming to terms with the whole situation.

This has been touched on before, but I thought the climax being 9/11 was a bit heavy for this kind of fantastical story. I personally would've probably had Carrole being killed in a train crash or some other preventable accident, but obviously its your story and its not my place to say what you should and shouldn't write about. I also really like your original idea of P&L deciding to save Lennon because its the 'easiest' of the world events they can alter, I can just imagine a scene with them sitting in the pub going through a list and discussing it.

I thought the dialogue was fine, I liked Sal as a sort of nostalgic, middle ground type figure. Really all I'd say is I wanted to get to know the characters more, maybe more of an introduction for Liam and Pete so we know who they are before they find the phone, and possibly expand on their relationship with Larry before their deaths.

Like I said you're probably sick of hearing about this script, but this is the first complete unproduced script I've read on here. Good luck if you go back to it cause I think its got more potential.

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mike902018  -  May 19th, 2009, 7:36pm
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stevie
Posted: May 19th, 2009, 8:13pm Report to Moderator
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Hi mike, thanks for thread and kind words! i think i erred in saying I was 'sick' of this script; I'd just moved on from it fro now. Cannot complain when people liked it!
Some of your comments are very good and thoughtful. yeah, I did have much more detailed stuff in the Liverpool part of the script. The first draft was 154 pages long! Back then I was still feeling my way with screen writing - re-reading the story now, I can see the change in my style. The original 15 pages were set in a pub actually and yes, later i had the boys making their 'list' of events.
But i ended up cutting 40 pages overall so that's why the intro is sort of rushed. I invented the professor and the climate change mission to jump right into the story.
As I mentioned beofre I went through heaps of different ideas for this and it became almot painful. I felt i had to nail all the time travel paradoxes before i sent it out for people to look at. That explains my relief to get it done and move on.
But yours and rendevous's posts have encouraged me anew! I will print it off and go over it as soon as possible. Thanks again for the review!

PS I know about 'Life on Mars' but never watched it. I remember seeing the ad for it on telly, and he looks up at the WTC; i thought, hey that's my idea! Cheers man.



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rendevous
Posted: September 16th, 2009, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Stevie lad,

I quite enjoyed revisiting this. A few things though...

I think you've got too many stories going on here and too many characters. You switch protagonists which kinda killed it for me.

It's fine to have a few threads going and several scenes happening continuously.

However, the way you set it up it did very much appear to me that we'd be following Liam and Pete's journey.

I love the plot and the time travel aspect. It's a great idea and I for one would love to see a film that saved Lennon, that'd be ace!

It's way too talky at the start methinks. It's fine to read dialogue but without any real conflict or action I think it'd be a bit boring to watch.

Liam and Pete are around until page 14. Then we switch to New York 1980. And we watch Vince and Larry. That's where it kinda lost for me. I wanted to know what happened to Liam and Pete.

Okay, so they're back for a bit. But then they are gone again. What are they doing?

I'd say making Larry the focus of the story was the problem. I'd just keep it to Liam and Pete.

By page 35 they're gone. That's a shame to me as they were the story. I realise that's not entirely true but you take the point.

Anyways, sorry if all that sounds too negative. Not my intention. There's a great story in here Stevie. Keep it to Lennon and L&P!


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stevie
Posted: September 16th, 2009, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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Hi RV, really appreciate your looking at this again for me.
The main problem with this script now is cos it was written awhile ago, parts of it don't read as well. I was just learning the skills of screenwriting and looking back can see all the faults.
Ok, you want more of L and P. If i try the new idea I had - where they are from the future - that could work.
But i feel that Larry is important to the story as he provides the impetus for saving them and trying to save his wife in 9/11. I could ditch the Errol/future prez bit but then i'd have to have JL being saved and history changed.
I want the end to be sort of like the end of 'the terminator'.

anyway i'll give it some thought. I'm currently working on another future one, which i haven't told u about. I might send via email if that's ok, it's 28 pages thus far, but u can skim  it.
I noted your comments re the Key about google. Fair enough buddy, i'll take it!
cheers and ta again.



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rendevous
Posted: September 16th, 2009, 4:18pm Report to Moderator
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Welcome Stevie.

I thought Sent started really well then kinda lost it when Larry appeared.

Email away lad. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
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Grandma Bear
Posted: November 17th, 2010, 7:58pm Report to Moderator
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Stevie,

apologies for taking a month to read this. Wasn't my intention at all. I started off good, but then I lost my first notes and then it took me a long time to get back to it. After that, I sort of read a few pages every day. Not the ideal way to read and comment on a script. Still, I hope some of this can be useful to you.  

My thoughts on your story is that it's very ambitious. I like the idea or I guess I should say "ideas". IMHO however the stories are just too big to fit them all into one script. I personally would have loved to read a light hearted typical Stevie style story where the whole story is about them going back in time to save Lennon. I loved that idea and thought it was a fun premise. When you shift gears however, to the 9/11 stuff, this story takes a way too serious turn for me. IMO, you can either write a story about saving Lennon or helping save someone from 9/11, but both of them in one script doesn't work. It's too much. I also had a hard time getting the right feel for the tone here. The way it started out was, like I said, a lighter drama with some funny parts. When Liam and Pete dies, things turn much darker. Digging up old graves...9/11...

The characters were fine. Maybe Liam and Pete were a little too much alike, but sometimes that can happen I suppose. Especially if they are really close and constantly together.

The writing was okay...lots of typos. Including calling Liam "Lima".  There's also a LOT of very dialogue heavy scenes. Maybe look at that and try to trim some. Some of it is purely expositional

I've been busy lately so it's been a week since I read the beginning of your script. My memory of some of the details may be a bit blurry.

My first thought here on page 21 however is that the script has now changed from the story of Liam and Pete going back in time to save John Lennon to the story of Larry and Vince. Two NYC cops. I hope that you somehow have a good reason for this, because right now it feels weird that the story has shifted its focus...  Besides, Larry  and Vince are not very likable after Larry tells us about the chase. Laughing at someone being abused when they have just broken a collar bone and got their legs ripped apart just isn't nice. Not really funny either, but that might just be me.

I think you can trim the dialogue on pages 23-26 quite a bit. Some parts are important, but most of it is just unimportant chatter and since your script is 113 pages, it wouldn't hurt it.

pg 32. Car 24 sounds a little too close to "car 54", but maybe that was your intention.

pg 34. we're doing smellovision now?... If something smells bad you have to show us something so we can imagine it. Gunpowder and something rank smelling. Like what? It certainly can't be the bodies yet since it just happened.

Also,  if they are already dead, would the medics really take them away? Wouldn't the coroner and detectives have to do their part first? Oh, I see, they arrive on the next page.

pg  41.  Jack's comment that he believes Chapman because he said he didn't rob them, just kill them seems really odd to me. I think we need a tad more reason why he would want to kill them for that statement to be believable.

pg  42.  What about finger prints? Shouldn't they check that too before they all touch it.

The following pages you show us Carole and Errol's gravestones and the date they died. After that you show us what happened 9/11. IMO  you shouldn't show us the grave markers first because it totally gives away what's happening next and therefore September 11th day scene reads uninteresting since we already know what's going to happen.

I also didn't get if Errol was with Carole or not. If he was, shouldn't he be on the phone for just a few seconds as well?

And I had a hard time picturing Larry as Chief of Police and his office not being busier under the attack. I don't know how it works, but I would have imagined that it would be total chaos and officers being sent out on the streets to work the crowds and that anyone who's not at work would be called in and such.

pg  57.  Larry has just figured out that the cellphone is a time travel device. how can this work? in 1980 they were both killed and Jack had their phone in his office. how can they still have access to it in the future? Also, how can you be dead and buried and come back alive 25 years later. I suppose you have an answer to this later on.  

pg  58.  shouldn't "Larry's thoughts" be (V.O.)?

pg  60.  Larry does a lot of talking to himself...

pg  64.  I'm very confused too know. Time travel always seem to do that to me.  My thought right now would be, where did they get the phone from in Central Park?

pg  89. why don't they just tell him Larry is waiting outside. He can explain everything to him?

pg  99.  not sure we call them taxi ranks here. may want to look into that.

pg 100.  why is Larry shaking Errol's hand? that seems like an odd thing to do between father and son...

All in all Stevie, I think you did good. I just think you have 2 features on your hands instead of just one.

cheers,

Pia












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stevie
Posted: November 17th, 2010, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Pia. Thanks for reading this!  All the points you make are valid, and one day I will get back to this script and re-write it - i have some really good ideas and changes to the story.

This was my first ever script and it shows. Way too much dialogue and awkward writing but I guess we all start somewhere. The original stroy I wrote as a 200 page novel, and i still have pages and pages of unused handwritten stuff!!  Tons of it!!

Jeff reviewed it for me and provided about 5 pages of notes and tips, all greatly appreciated.

It is a very ambitious story, with heaps going on. Maybe it could work better done as TV mini series, I dunno.
I know that Liam and Pete are too similair - i will definitely only use one of them in a re-write. In fact, i plan to scrap the whole Liverpool back story and the professor and just have one guy coming from the future (akin to 12 Monkeys, I know)

Its funny cos since I wrote this I changed from a climate change believer into a sceptic, so their quest seems rather tacky to me now!
I know the 9/11 part of it could jar uneasily but, well, it's a historical event now, nad i feel that it and John's murder are intrinsically linked in the very spine of NYC now.

I had another unused sub plot, invloving Marilyn Monroe - the boy have to rescue her from dying, so she can get back with Joe D and their baby will grow up to be Pres or something.  I am currently toying with doing this as a fresh, seperate feature, as I am looking for a new project after finishing the Headlong re-write.

Cheers again Pia for your thoughts.



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