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SimplyScripts Screenwriting Discussion Board    Unproduced Screenplay Discussion    Sci Fi and Fantasy Scripts  ›  Sent Moderators: bert
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Don
Posted: November 3rd, 2008, 7:34pm Report to Moderator
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So, what are you writing?

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Sent by Steve McDonell - Sci Fi - Two Englishmen travel back in time from 2005 to 1980. Their mission is to prevent the murder of John Lennon, in the hope of changing the future demise of the Earth.Their efforts meet with disaster.  Twenty five years later,a police officer who met them realises the truth. Now he must find the time device and attempt to stop the death of his wife, a victim of 9/11...  113 pages - pdf, format


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Revision History (1 edits)
Don  -  March 1st, 2009, 12:13pm
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kev
Posted: November 16th, 2008, 12:23am Report to Moderator
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time travel and the beatles? i'm sold! I'm really liking the concept of your story here, who isn't a beatles fan? I just finished watching chapter 27 a few nights ago so the death is rather fresh in mind! I liked the way you opened your script and throughout you have some pretty good descriptions, it really sets the tone, I'd just watch some parts you kind of over-describe but that's not so much a bad thing it could shorten your script by a few pages though! I really have no complaints though about this script, I found it really entertaining, it had some really good dialog aswell, plus i found you handled the transitions in time very well it was smoothly done! i like the music you chose to represent scenes, i definitely think this would be a movie that would draw me in, good work! keep it up, can't wait to read more from you!

- kev


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stevie
Posted: November 16th, 2008, 4:39pm Report to Moderator
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hi kev thanks for the review. its the first one i've got! my script is on the celtx site but no one commented yet. i realise its a long read. i've read through it once but aren't sure which bits to cut. the original story started in 1980 in the pizza bar, with the liverpool stuff later on in flashback. but i changed it at the last minute. i've been a beatle freak for 38 years and love time trvael stuff so i wrote about what i knew best. i have some text of a sequel done - the boys have to rescue marilyn monroe(another one of my heroes) in 1962.
where in canada u from? we went to vancouver and toronto in 97. top places!
what is chapter 27? is that about john?  getting back to your zombie piece u should check out shaun of the dead. i saw it at the cinema when it came out and it was a real classic.
i have some feelers out with 'SENT' - sent a synopsis to a couple of studios and a mate in chicago is looking at it. he has some contacts in the business.
anyway man good to hear from you and thanks again.
ps my dad's name is kev too!



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stevie
Posted: March 1st, 2009, 4:32pm Report to Moderator
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hi guys. I finally finished the revision of this script. Only taken me nearly three months! I knocked 40 pages off it and adjusted the story line. I think it reads a lot better. In that three months i have learned so much more about scriptwrititng thanks to SS. asking questions, reading other people's queries and, of course, checking other scripts. my apologies to anyone who laboured through the bloated 154 page first draft. I know kev looked at it and gave me a nice review.

i've been working on this story for 4 years now! first as a 200 page novella, then as a script. I reallly believe in it and one more polish should bring it home. I was hoping for some feedback on it, please. Maybe one of the SS hi-rollers( Mike, Phil, Rob, etc) could look at it. I would be most indebted and owe you guys!  thank you.



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Dreamscale
Posted: March 10th, 2009, 8:10pm Report to Moderator
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Steve, I got through your script earlier today.  Decided to think about things before I commented.  I have a lot to say, but I’m having trouble trying to get my thoughts in a cohesive form.  I’ll do my best.  I took some notes as I read (but not as complete as I usually do), and will attach them at the end.

First off, this is an extremely ambitious script.  Your story and plot are HUGE…probably too big.  You have lots of good characters here, but again, maybe too many.  I’m not sure who are your “main” main characters.  I guess it comes down to Pete and Liam, or Larry, as they all seem to spend equal time onscreen and have about the same amount of dialogue.  Is this a big problem?  No, not really, but I think it should be more clear, and am interested to hear from you who you think is (are) the main protags.  Also, interested in who, or maybe what, is your antag here. To me, it’s a bit unclear.

There is a lot of good stuff in here, for sure, but I think you’re quite far from a finished and polished script.  I guess I’ll tell you what worked for me and what didn’t work, and why, of course.  I’d be happy to discuss all of this stuff with you in more detail at your convenience.  First, though, let me talk a bit about some general things involving your plot, which I feel is very important.

Ah, time travel.  Such an interesting concept.  So many opportunities…you can literally go anywhere, at any time, in any year, etc.  Endless opportunities.  But also, with such limitless parameters, so many potential obstacles exist in terms of reality checks and the like.

There have been so many different attempts at this stuff over the years.  We’ve seen many different viewpoints and plotlines before.  One big issue with this centerpiece is that no matter how hard you try to make things make sense, things tend to unravel at some point, and multiple readings or viewings make them so much more apparent.   It’s just a really hard thing to nail down properly.

Using real life events in history is a cool concept, but again, tough to pull off.  The killing of John Lennon and the 9/11 tragedy are events that tend to stick in our minds.  They’re horrific things that people feel very strongly about.  They remind us all of how ugly mankind can be.  I think it’s a big mistake to include so much of your story revolving around the World Trade Centers’ demise, as most don’t want to see or hear anything more about it.  There were a number of movies about it, in the years that followed, but I think at this time, it’s something that should be left alone.

Finally, I read an earlier post of yours in which you said 2 of your favorite things were Time Travel and The Beatles, and you wanted to stick to what you knew.  I think you should have used The Beatles (Lennon) much more in here.  Once you go to the 9/11 stuff, the Beatles influence is completely forgotten (as far as I can remember).  You start off with an actual Beatles song, but that’s about it, other than some references to classic concerts.  The downside to all this, though, is that I highly doubt anything Beatles would be allowed, based on copyrights and the expense to acquire, or use them.

More to follow ASAP…
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 6:47pm Report to Moderator
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Part 2

The goods and the not so goods – Steve, I’m just going to throw these out as they come to me, and give a bit of reasoning behind my thoughts.  These comments can be taken however you want to take them.  Some will disagree with me on some points, but I feel strongly that what I’m going to say makes complete sense.

Story is good, complex, well thought out, and well researched.  Your research shows, as I got the feeling that in your head, you knew what you were describing in terms of locales.  You’ve got alot going on and there are some good twists as well.  Lots of interesting scenes, literally around the world, makes this an engaging read (or view!).

It is not a quick or easy read, though.  You tend to over describe things quite often, and it really takes away from the read.  Describing clothing that people are wearing that has absolutely nothing to do with the story, or detailed descriptions of things that don’t matter are 2 examples of this.  Another problem is that there are numerous lines in here that seem to be taken from when this was a novel – things that you’re telling us that can’t be seen onscreen (and don’t matter, either!).  Read this over a few times and clean them up and lose them all.

Your characters are well done for the most part, and seem like real people.  They tend to speak like real people would also, which is good.  Sal is my favorite, actually.  I also like the older cop in the beginning.  As for Liam and Pete, they seem like exactly the same character to me.  I couldn’t tell them apart at all, and after awhile, stopped trying, because it didn’t really matter, as they were together literally the entire script (I think?).  I think you need to somehow give them separate voices, quirks, etc.  They just tend to seem like an extension of each other.  I did not like the Errol character and didn’t find him to be at all believable, especially the fact that he was going to be President of the USA!  No way would a character like that become President.  I also wasn’t thrilled with Professor Lincoln. He seemed to serve as a moderator of sorts, laying out exactly where the story would be going and what the boys would have to do.

Dialogue was alright throughout for the most part, but at times, not so good.  I found that when Liam and Pete were talking with Larry (just about every single time), they would use his name extremely often, which started sounding really weird.  Like every other sentence would include “Larry” somewhere in it.  Errol’s dialogue didn’t work at all for me.  He did not come off as a real person at all.  There were also numerous examples of exposition in characters dialogue that didn’t sound real and simply served to fill in the readers about something, which is always frowned upon.

As I said earlier, time travel is a tough plot to keep in the realms of believability.  You did an admirable job, but there were a number of sequences that didn’t work.  The fact that we were jumping around in terms of time and place also made for a confusing read at times.  I think you need to utilize Supers much more often – probably every single time the time has changed.  I also don’t think your 2 main plot devices (preventing the death of Lennon and the whole 9/11 thing) really made a whole lot of sense, when you get down to thinking about it.  Interesting ideas for sure, but not completely believable, especially the thing about Errol becoming President, as I mentioned earlier.

OK, 2 things that definitely need attention are your scene headings and use of wrylies.  

Scene Headings -

This is something that some may argue about, but I feel quite comfortable defending what I’m saying.  I personally prefer to be very exact in my slugs, because I think it not only helps with the read, but also will make things very easy for turning a spec into a shooting script, etc.  Many do not feel this way, so let me explain what I’m talking about.

When you’ve got a scene in a house or the like, and you’re inside a specific room, you need to start the slug with the house (Liam’s, Smith, whatever), and then break it down further from there. Start with the largest thing first and go down from there…kind of like an outline would be.  That way, when/if you have another house, you’ll know exactly (and immediately) which house you’re in, as apposed to starting with the generic term like “kitchen”, and then the house.  Otherwise, you could have numerous slugs starting with “kitchen” that are not the same scene at all.  It really helps when you get down to shooting, and knowing exactly how many scenes are in each house, etc.  Same thing would go with an office building, police station, airport, etc.  Always start with the actual structure and then describe what room/area you’re in.

On numerous occasions, you used things like “aerial view” in your actual slug.  This should not be in there…ever.  If you want an aerial shot or view for the scene, just use it in your opening action line, under the slug.  These are obviously EXT. shots we’re talking about, but just because you start out “up high”, doesn’t mean that you’re not going to drop down on the scene, and have it continue.  Otherwise, you’d need a new slug once you do drop down.

Wrylies

You are using way too many wrylies and many times, the “action” in the wrylie should really be written in an action line.  Overuse of wrylies is majorly frowned upon, as you’re telling your actors how to act.  Nothing wrong with using them sparingly at all, but you are using them multiple times per page at times.  Don’t show actions as wrylies…ever.  Wrylies should only be used for things pertaining to speech (slurring, whispering, shouting, quietly, to himself, chewing, etc.). Just about everything else should be shown in an action line.

Wrylies take up a lot of space when you think about it, as they’re indented and take up a entire line, while usually only being 1 word.  When you use an action line, you get the entire line and you can also start another sentence on the same line.  I think you’ll be surprised how many lines you can cut out just by getting rid of the majority of your wrylies.

A few other things to consider…as it is now, your script will get an R rating, based on use of the word “fuck” numerous times.  There’s no sex, no nudity, and very little violence.  The feel of your script is PG- PG13.  No reason to have those expletives make it cross into the R rating territory.  An R movie should have as many elements that make it R, as possible.  When you don’t have them in there, the audience that you’re shooting for will be disappointed and feel cheated, so to speak.
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Dreamscale
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 6:53pm Report to Moderator
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Part 3

Finally, back to some plot points that don’t work for me, or were very confusing.  As mentioned several times, when dealing with time travel, there’re always going to be things that just don’t make sense, and, there are a few here that I think you need to clean up or explain better.

I like how you ended things and left it open for multiple sequels, but I don’t like the fact that the way Lincoln got the time travel phone was from his grandfather (Liam or Pete, not sure which), who got it from Lincoln in the first place.  Just doesn’t make sense when you think about it, but that’s how time travel flicks are most of the time.  I think there’s a better way to do it though.

The fact that Lincoln waited until he was apparently one of the last survivors in England, and holed up in an underground bunker buried beneath feet of ice and snow, just doesn’t fly.  That kind of climate change would take quite a long time to happen.  Where were all the other people in the year 2080?  How could anyone survive for a period of time in a small bunker by themselves?  Why couldn’t/wouldn’t Lincoln just do this stuff himself before everything got so bad?  Kind of a big reach also the way Lincoln got the lads to do his bidding so quickly, in the first place, also.

OK, almost done…let’s talk about your action and dialogue real quick…

I think your flow overall was good and everything moved along at a pretty good pace, but I also think there’s too much unnecessary dialogue pretty much in every single scene.  Scenes went on too long, with either unnecessary dialogue or action.  It bogged things down.  You’ve got so much going on that you just don’t need the extraneous stuff and extended scenes.   I don’t see this as a movie that works with so much dialogue…some do, some don’t.  The action needs to be played up, and the dialogue, played down.

Some of your action sequences felt a bit clunky, or flat.  I think I remember you telling me that writing action wasn’t your strong suit.  I’m not saying it’s bad, but I think it can be written better.  I think the action scenes need more oomph, more tension, more…more…well, just more, I guess.  You’ve got a lot of passive verbiage in here that may be part of the problem.  I’m not saying that you can’t or shouldn’t ever use ing verbs, but you’ve done it way too much, and way too often.  Try changing these sentences by taking out the ing verbs completely.  They’ll read better and the feel your reader will get will be more action packed, I think.  Things will move better.

Steve, as I said, I honestly do feel you’ve got alot of good stuff in here.  Although I don’t have a problem at all with your page length, the way it sits now, it should be shorter and more concise.  It’s such a big idea that I think you need to spend more time on certain scenes and less on other, less important ones.  Just by taking some of my suggestions, you can trim out at least 10 pages…probably more. With these extra pages, you could fill in some of the holes and make some difficult to understand scenes, easier to follow, as well as giving your main characters a little more personality.

You’re off to a great start here.  I hope this helps, and if I can be of anymore assistance, I will.  Best of luck with this.

Here are the notes I took as I read…

Page 1 – Too much description of where we could be – totally unnecessary.   I’d insert the Super immediately when the scene opens.  How do you show “the backward passage of time”?

Page 2 – Don’t use “Aerial view of” in your scene heading. “The music is still playing” should be simply, “The music continues to play”.  Use “Liam and Pete’s Flat” before “Kitchen” in your Scene Heading.  Try not to use so much passive verbiage (ing verbs).  You can easily fix these.  Watch overuse of wrylies.  You don’t want to use them often.  Many times, it is better to use action line for this.

Page 3 – I’d just use “Lincoln” instead of “Prof. Lincoln”.  It reads much easier this way.

Page 4 – Again, way too many wrylies being used.  “realise” should be “realize”.

Page 7 – Your scenes going back and forth in time will be hard to grasp onscreen, without headers.  Not sure how to make this work…maybe it won’t be a big deal…not sure.

Page 8 – Something’s wrong with Lincoln’s dialogue under the wrylie “shrugs”…check it out.

Page 11 – Lose the “over Atlantic ocean” in your slug.  Dialogue here is too “on the nose”.

Page 12 – Lose the line “The plane roars on…”.  No reason for it at all.  Use “JFK Airport” before “Arrival Gate” in your slug.  Always use the “bigger” part of the scene first, then go down to more intricate parts of the setting.  I thought they were already in 1980?  If they’re not, they should be as travel would be much less expensive, etc.

Page 13 – The entire scene with the Customs Officer isn’t necessary at all.  I’d lose it for sure.

Page 14 – All the stuff about Liam “feeling” stuff can’t be filmed.  I’d lose it.  Don’t use “Aerial view” in your slugs.  No reason for that.  You can use it in the first line of action if you want to.  I’m confused again about what the date is.  Now you’re saying it is indeed 1980, but I don’t remember them “jumping”.

Page 18 – The deal with the “visions” isn’t done properly here.  You need to show this through a montage or something.  You can’t just write, “he sees…”.

Page 19 – I don’t buy the interaction between the kids and the cop.  This entire scene is too long…you could easily cut it alot.

Page 34 – You can’t show the “smell of gunpowder” drifting.  Remember, this is a script, not a novel.  You say things like this frequently.  They all need to go.

Page 35 – Again, you say, “The smell of blood is intense”.  Can’t show this, get rid of it!

Page 40 – Your description of Mason uses things that we’ll never be able to see again. “Around the station, he is…”  LOSE IT!!!

Page 42 – “It’s nearly time for his shift to start.”  Again, this line is meaningless and cannot come across on film.  Get rid of all this stuff. I won’t continue to flag these, cause they’re just popping up all over.  You’ll need to go through this and really look for this sort of stuff.  I bet you’ll knock out 4-5 pages when these are gone.

Page 44-45 – Strange scenes here.  I realize time has passed, back and forth, but I highly doubt anyone would have a clue without the slugs.  Maybe Supers are needed here.  Not sure, but I don’t think it works as is.

Page 54 – Conversation between Larry and Sal on the nose again.  Not believable IMO.

Page 59 – Were they just thrown into the ground without caskets?

Page 74 – Oh boy…what a coincidence that Errol is just the guy that they need to save.

Page 75 – Things are getting really whacky now…

Page 78 – Dialogue does not sound believable at all here…nor does the situation.

Page 89 – You called Liam, “Lima” twice here.

“World Trade Center” – not “Centre”

Page 95 – bottom – Lima again…

Page 98,99 – The dialogue again is totally telling us stuff for sake of the story.  Why would Errol live with his Dad when he’s in his mid 20’s?  Wouldn’t he be off at college or living his own adult life by now?  If this kid is going to be President, I think he’d have some sort of life by now.

Page 106 – This is not an EXT. scene.

Revision History (1 edits)
Don  -  March 12th, 2009, 2:05am
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stevie
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 7:44pm Report to Moderator
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Wow, Jeff. Thanks, man. This is the precise review I was after, and I appreciate your efforts. I won't go into too much detail in replying, as I'm going to finish reading 'Fade'. Also our e-mails are sufficient for further comment.

I totally agree with all the points you made! It is a big project but i firmly believe in it. The main problem was the time it took to write it, and the changes made along the way. i can easily see the older bits that I left as was. This, coupled with my learning of new script skills, makes it very disjointed.

The story changed a fair bit, as did the sequence of the events. Late last year, I contacted a local script reader to get a quote for a look at it. She accidentally read it all and gave me a 6 page review! I didn't have to pay because she missed a step in the process. I felt bad about it and offered to pay some of the fee, but she never got back to me. I imagine she was a bit embarassed by her mistake.  Anyway, it was her suggestion to make Errol the key at the end. I had him alive and with Larry all the way through. the original ending was Errol was 'stuck' in time, at the WTC. Larry deliberately stays to die with him and his wife.
but the idea of Errol becoming the saviour prez was good, so I changed it.

A couple of quick things: I like your views on scene headings -  they make sense - but i can see how the purists would object;  I didn't want to give too much detail of the future 0f 2080 that's why its a bit rough. I guess I invited speculation -  I didn't want it to become too 'alien';  the ending is a homage to the end of  'The Terminator', where Sarah is heading out to hide in the desert.  the cycle of the phone being given to the infant professor is really for the viewer to speculate. I had that ending pictured way before i finished.
Jeff, thanks again for the effort! Fantastic!  After the web series wraps  I'll get back into 'Sent'.  It took me a moment to work out what wrylies were! yeah, i use too many, but i wasn't sure when it was or wasn't appropriate to actually use them.  noted!
cheers buddy. I'll be in touch!



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Dreamscale
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 8:11pm Report to Moderator
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Hey Steve, E-Mails are fine, but I think you'll find that when you post in here, back and forth, you'll possibly increase the interest fom other SS'ers to post their comments as well.  It never hurts to have your script at the top of the heap in it's genre thread.

Funny about the "script reader thing".  Glad you didn't have to pay anything.  I feel their services are totally hit and miss. I made the mistake of doing that awhile back myself - I was very unhappy with the "services" I got.  The reader I had was incredibly weak...he didn't even understand the basic concept I was after.  His comments and feedback were completely "Screenwriting 101" and when I delved deeper, he became increasingly uncomfortable with my challenges.  His suggestions were downright ridiculous, and in a nutshell, his servies were completely useless to me.

Again, I want you to know that everything I said is how I feel,  I don't sugarcoat anything, even if it's to a "friend".  I think you've got a great idea here and you're off to a great start.  Don't ever give up or lose the dream, and always stay true to what you really feel.

Glad I could help.
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stevie
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Thanks Jeff. I'm going to print out your review for easier study. I'm halfway through 'Fade'  so should have a review up in a couple of days.
Again, i appreciate the help! Cheers buddy



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Quoted from Dreamscale
Hey Steve, E-Mails are fine, but I think you'll find that when you post in here, back and forth, you'll possibly increase the interest fom other SS'ers to post their comments as well.  It never hurts to have your script at the top of the heap in it's genre thread.

True that, and now here I am for this very reason.  

I agree with a lot of the major points that Jeff made.  I was tempted to bail out around page 40 or so, but stuck it out.  The main issue for me was that this script was very talky.  The story is more or less narrated through character dialogue, and needlessly so.  As Jeff mentioned, many of your scenes go on for too long, and there is a lot of unrealistic, on-the-nose dialogue.  Frequent use of unfilmables was also a problem.

As an example of unnecessary dialogue, I would end the first scene with Liam and Pete after the Professor cuts out.  I really don't need to know about their plans to get money from 1980.  And I definitely don't need hear about it again at the start of the next scene.  This is a trivial detail that doesn't add anything to your script, and slows things down a bit.

The scene in Sal's is quite bloated, with lots of unnecessary BS'ing.  Remember to show, not tell.  Vincent doesn't need to explain to us how long he's been coming into Sal's.  This can be shown by how they address each other.  Also, I don't need to know what kind of pizza they order.  Dialogue should either develop characters, move the plot, or both.  Most of this scene doesn't do any of that.

After Liam and Pete go back in time, nothing really happens until John Lennon shows up...and even this is fairly low-key.  This should be a moment of tension, with Mark David Chapman being there, but I didn't really feel it.  So I was left hanging until five pages later, where your big event finally takes place.  But it happened off camera!  The most exciting moment so far...and you didn't even show it!  At first I thought you did it as a plot device, to reveal something unexpected later, but that didn't happen.  I'm still at a total loss as to why and how they were killed.

One small thing I'd want to mention is that most people would probably refer to John Lennon as simply John Lennon.  He's famous enough that it wouldn't need to be prefaced by "the musician" or "the guy from the Beatles".

The scene with Larry and Carole at the cemetery pretty much epitomizes what I mean by "narrating with dialogue".  Why not show the actual burial?  So we can see the bag being buried rather than being told about it.  Also, this is one of several places where you tell us something over again...they don't know who Liam and Pete are.  We knew this in the first place, knowing they're from the future.  We are told it directly in the scene with Jack Mason.  We really don't need it a third time.

Regarding the exhumation scene, we bury people in caskets.  He wouldn't find a bone in the dirt.

When Liam and Pete are following Errol, it's too much dialogue.  This is a scene that should be much more action.  Also, their confrontation in the tower seems a bit strange for a number of reasons.  Errol seems to be a bit too collected in some ways, and a bit too naive in others.  I also don't like that the konk on his head made him forget his scuffle with Liam and Pete.

The ambiguous ending kind of worked for me.  I didn't really mind the seeming Catch 22 of the Professor getting the phone from Pete.

In summation, I would really try to cut and trim your dialogue throughout the script, and add more action.  In particular, Liam and Pete are really underdeveloped.  To a certain extent, I agree with Jeff that they are indistinguishable.  However, I do get a notion that Liam is the leader - he knows all about 9/11 (and you should probably explain how), he's the one who wants to hear the professor out, he's always taking the initiative.  I also see Pete as more of the comic relief - always hungry, has the line about wondering if they won the title, etc.  This needs to be played up more, though.  Also, I'd like to see more reference to their real lives - their jobs, friends, family, etc.  Additionally, I think they need to actually do more in the script.  Let's face it, all they really do is hit Errol over the head with a statue.  They never really have an opportunity to grow as characters.  Larry, in contrast, accomplishes much more than they do, since he has to figure things out on his own, without the Professor holding his hand.  He's also a bit more developed, though I still feel he could have some sort of personal motivating factor in 1980.

I really like the concept of the story, but I'd like to see it come to life more.  Go past the narrative and bring the more human elements of the story to the forefront.


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stevie
Posted: March 12th, 2009, 1:55am Report to Moderator
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Hi escapist! Thanks for the read. This is what I was after so I appreciate.
Yeah, I've gone over Jeff's notes thoroughly and realise all the things I need to fix this up. Maybe I have taken on a lot of story at once, but it's been with me for 4 years, so has changed immensely.
I know it's very dialogue heavy - that came from adapting the script from the original 200 page novella. When I started the script, I was still a bit of a novice at the craft. In the months since, i hope I've learned a lot from SS.
The whole scenes at the Dakota were unchanged from the novella which shows up when i re-read it.
Um, yeah, you back up all Jeff said and I'm going to get onto it ASAP.  Just a note about the coffins? I presumed after 25 years the wood would have rotted? maybe I should've had Larry finding bits of wood when digging.
Anyway, man, thanks again for the review. If you need a script looked at, please let me know. Another point, sorry. The original had all sorts of details about the boys jobs and families but i cut it in the 2nd draft. on the other hand, i put about the money needed for 1980, as I thought someone might wonder about it. I probably would've . ok Cheers



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escapist
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Modern caskets are a bit more sturdy than the simple wooden boxes used back in the day.  They're frequently metal, but even if it was wood, I'd expect that Larry would have to bash his way through the lid at least.  I wouldn't expect it would have completely broken down in 25 years.

I totally know where you're coming from on the money thing, as I've caught myself doing that in my writing as well.  I think you just have to ask yourself if it's interesting enough to include, or if it is absolutely necessary to explain.  People might wonder, but I think we're all willing to accept the fact that they could get the money.  I'd be more likely to wonder about all the time travel loopholes, myself.    Also, I forgot to mention it, but you should probably have them enter months and days with double digits.  Otherwise January 11th and November 1st would be indistinguishable, etc.


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Dreamscale
Posted: March 12th, 2009, 11:40am Report to Moderator
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Great point about the dates 1/11 and 11/1.  Very interesting.

Also, about the caskets, I'm pretty sure they're metal and have been well before the 80's.  Also, they would both have thier own.

About the money thing or loopholes in general, I suggested earlier that they should jump back in time prior to the flight, because $500 or whatever amount would buy alot more in 1980 than it would in 2005.  Not sure about the exchnage rate back then or now, but it could also make a difference.

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stevie
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just quickly. i'll write more later when i have time.  i have pages and pages from my original novella, stuff ididn't use pertaining to money and stuff, and the logistics of time travel. they had to fly in their present because their passports would've been invalid! I went crazy trying to make it all make sense, trust me!
Later i will write out a bit of an outline of how i see the basic story is. it may make more sense. thanks guys.



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stevie
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Ok, I'm back. My son is asleep so I have at least an hour!
I wanted to outline some of the writing history of this story.  As I said before, I started it 5 years ago, as a novella. Back then, I had no computer, so it was all hand-written! i still have folders of unused stuff under my bed. No doubt, this will be produced as evidence, in the future, as the cause of my decaying sanity!?
The original premise was simply about two Beatle fans, who acquire a time machine. One just happened to be the spitting image of the young Ringo Starr(and also played drums). So he goes back in time, kidnaps Ringo and takes his place!  I wanted to show the intimate life of the Beatles circle, amongst all the mania. Anyway, this all became a bit silly so I canned it, and eventually it became Liam and Pete finding the time phone( i didn't have an origin for it). They make a list of events in history they might change - john's murder, 9/11, Lady Di's death, etc - and pick the former as the 'easiest".   At this stage, this was no prof. lincoln, no climate change mission, it was simply them trying to save John.  They still met Llarry in 1980, still got killed by Chapman, buried, etc.  In 2005, Larry sees them at JFK a susual, but Errol was alive in this version. He and Larry realise the truth, dig up the phone. They go back to 9/11 first, to rescue Carole. But they are 'invisible' to all in the Tower, a block by the time system. Errol gets stuck there, so Larry jumps to 1980, meets the boys and they go back to 9/11. Errol remains stuck , so Larry stays with him and Carole, to die, rather than face another loss. The boys leave, promising to try and save them one day. As they leave, Larry and Errol are suddenly visible to Ccarole -  the presence of the phone was the block.

Sorry for all the waffle but i needed get it out. Maybe someone will see something that could be used in a re-write.  Last year, we got a new computer and the Net on. I found celtx and was away! I started adapting 'Sent' to a screenplay. I made the major changes, introducing the professor and the climate mission. I felt the boys had to have a valid purpose for saving John. I didn't want to re-write history so they were never going to prevent his death( in one version, they die in the hail of bullets with him at the Dakota! Larry is first cop on the scene and Liam gives him the phone)
This too, is why they couldn't stop 9/11 -  it was too big an event. The backbone of the plot was more about the effort to TRY and save people.  Larry's case was different as he had a personal stake in it. Imagine finding a way to bring back lost family? I was trying to show the struggle in Larry's mind. The original had Errol and him arguing about rescuing Csarole and leaving the other people in the WTC to die.
I think that's why Errol's character comes over as sort of nothing - cos I changed his presence in the script, it gave him nothing to do . Valid point, escapist!
um, i won't carry on too much more. I tried to create my own set of rules for the time travel, which i feel every book or film on the subject should do. Then the viewer/reader knows early on what the go is. That why the professor gives all the info out - they can have only make one attempt, etc. Because he was introduced later in my writing, he does come over as a sort of controller.  I tried, also, to give the phone a mysterious power, apart from being the time machine. I hint at it having its own agenda, making sure it survives and is in postion to be retrieved by Larry. I was influenced here by Sauron's Ring in Tolkein, I suppose.  anyway, I hope this sheds some light on my whole concept and i haven't been too boring. Cheers, guys!



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rendevous
Posted: May 17th, 2009, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Stevie, just wondering if anything has happened with this since. I'm reading it now and enjoying it.


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stevie
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 2:36am Report to Moderator
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Hey man, thanks checking it out. Um, no, I haven't looked at it for a few months. Dreamscale gave me some good advice and I removed the wrylies from it (but not from the one you're reading). I've moved on to other projects since then. I'll get back to it at some stage. It's tough with that cos I'd been on the story for ages and it starting becoming a chore to me.
Actually the other day i was thinking of printing it out and going over it. Cheers.



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rendevous
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 4:33pm Report to Moderator
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I just completed reading this. I have to agree with the previous posts on most of the points made. I enjoyed the Lennon era a lot more than the Sept 11 stuff, I'm sure most don't want to revisit that event. I think quality wise the writing is a lot better at the beginning than later.

The Pete & Liam characters are too similar. Perhaps one of them could be a Macca fan instead of a Lennon one. Something along those lines to create a bit of conflict and difference between them.

I thought while reading that it would have been good if they did manage to save Lennon, if only for a little while, only for him to be killed by an accident later. Time correcting itself or the like. Personally it irked me to have Chapman around as a character, I know it's inevitable but, most folk would be really behind the lads trying to stop the loon before he could kill. I felt they didn't really even get the chance to stop him. There's a good scene there methinks.

This is a big complicated story here and for the most part it's been thought through well. You've obviously done your research. It does need a good rewrite, but that's not to take away from what you have achieved with this.    


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stevie
Posted: May 18th, 2009, 5:13pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks again rendevous. You make some good suggestions. I did have one alternate scenario where the boys save John but they die. But when Larry comes back to save them, this negates it all so John dies as in reality. It was something like that. I have pages and pages of stuff under my bed, dating back five years on this!
Also it could be interesting if one is a Macca fan ( I'd say you're English? They like to call Paul 'Macca') I agree they are very similiar characters.
So yeah, one day I'll get back to this one. It became very tiring working for so long on the same story. My mind went a bit numb so I wrote 2 comedies after this!
But your advice has given me fresh thought and I thank you. cheers



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michel
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Quoted from stevie
I'd say you're English? They like to call Paul 'Macca'

In France, we call him Popol


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rendevous
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I'd say you're right Stevie, they do indeed call him Macca. Lennon fans are well known for disliking Macca fans, so there's plenty to mine away at there if you do fancy a rewrite. I'm glad it's given you fresh thought. I enjoyed the script a lot.


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stevie
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Thanks again for the read, man. It's sort of funny when one of your 'older' scripts is plucked out of nowhere and read by a newcomer to SS.
Um, yeah i know the 9/11 stuff could be hard for some people to read about. But that is the key to the whole story really - it gives the impetus for Larry to travel back to save the boys, and hopefully save his wife and son.
About the Macca and Lennon fan enmity, yeah i find that sad meself. I'm a Beatle freak as you might have gathered and, really, none of their solo stuff is better than the best Beatles music. I know John and Paul went through that backstabbing stage after the break up but it was all petty shit in the end. They reconciled secretly and were good friends when John died; well, i hope they were, after their amazing journey with George and Ringo. Better go, I'm dribbling shit again! Cheers.a



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mike902018
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I saw this is an old project so you're probably sick of going through it, but I've just read it and thought I'd drop you a message. The premise reminded me of the TV series 'Life on Mars' - no idea if you've seen that, but thats why I decided to take a look at your script.

I found it flowed nicely and was easy to read, it comes across as not being polished but the structure is there and with some work it could be a decent script. The sudden deaths of Liam and Pete did come as a shock to me, and it was refreshing that their (original) mission failed so badly. I liked the introduction of Larry and Carrole into the story, but I wanted to get to know the characters more, especially Pete and Liam. Also I found it a little too fast paced. I probably would've moved the Lennon assassination much further into the story, and allowed for Pete, Liam, Larry and Carrole to develop. Maybe show more of  P&L in New York, planning how to stop the murder or just them coming to terms with the whole situation.

This has been touched on before, but I thought the climax being 9/11 was a bit heavy for this kind of fantastical story. I personally would've probably had Carrole being killed in a train crash or some other preventable accident, but obviously its your story and its not my place to say what you should and shouldn't write about. I also really like your original idea of P&L deciding to save Lennon because its the 'easiest' of the world events they can alter, I can just imagine a scene with them sitting in the pub going through a list and discussing it.

I thought the dialogue was fine, I liked Sal as a sort of nostalgic, middle ground type figure. Really all I'd say is I wanted to get to know the characters more, maybe more of an introduction for Liam and Pete so we know who they are before they find the phone, and possibly expand on their relationship with Larry before their deaths.

Like I said you're probably sick of hearing about this script, but this is the first complete unproduced script I've read on here. Good luck if you go back to it cause I think its got more potential.

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stevie
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Hi mike, thanks for thread and kind words! i think i erred in saying I was 'sick' of this script; I'd just moved on from it fro now. Cannot complain when people liked it!
Some of your comments are very good and thoughtful. yeah, I did have much more detailed stuff in the Liverpool part of the script. The first draft was 154 pages long! Back then I was still feeling my way with screen writing - re-reading the story now, I can see the change in my style. The original 15 pages were set in a pub actually and yes, later i had the boys making their 'list' of events.
But i ended up cutting 40 pages overall so that's why the intro is sort of rushed. I invented the professor and the climate change mission to jump right into the story.
As I mentioned beofre I went through heaps of different ideas for this and it became almot painful. I felt i had to nail all the time travel paradoxes before i sent it out for people to look at. That explains my relief to get it done and move on.
But yours and rendevous's posts have encouraged me anew! I will print it off and go over it as soon as possible. Thanks again for the review!

PS I know about 'Life on Mars' but never watched it. I remember seeing the ad for it on telly, and he looks up at the WTC; i thought, hey that's my idea! Cheers man.



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rendevous
Posted: September 16th, 2009, 2:37pm Report to Moderator
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Stevie lad,

I quite enjoyed revisiting this. A few things though...

I think you've got too many stories going on here and too many characters. You switch protagonists which kinda killed it for me.

It's fine to have a few threads going and several scenes happening continuously.

However, the way you set it up it did very much appear to me that we'd be following Liam and Pete's journey.

I love the plot and the time travel aspect. It's a great idea and I for one would love to see a film that saved Lennon, that'd be ace!

It's way too talky at the start methinks. It's fine to read dialogue but without any real conflict or action I think it'd be a bit boring to watch.

Liam and Pete are around until page 14. Then we switch to New York 1980. And we watch Vince and Larry. That's where it kinda lost for me. I wanted to know what happened to Liam and Pete.

Okay, so they're back for a bit. But then they are gone again. What are they doing?

I'd say making Larry the focus of the story was the problem. I'd just keep it to Liam and Pete.

By page 35 they're gone. That's a shame to me as they were the story. I realise that's not entirely true but you take the point.

Anyways, sorry if all that sounds too negative. Not my intention. There's a great story in here Stevie. Keep it to Lennon and L&P!


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stevie
Posted: September 16th, 2009, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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Hi RV, really appreciate your looking at this again for me.
The main problem with this script now is cos it was written awhile ago, parts of it don't read as well. I was just learning the skills of screenwriting and looking back can see all the faults.
Ok, you want more of L and P. If i try the new idea I had - where they are from the future - that could work.
But i feel that Larry is important to the story as he provides the impetus for saving them and trying to save his wife in 9/11. I could ditch the Errol/future prez bit but then i'd have to have JL being saved and history changed.
I want the end to be sort of like the end of 'the terminator'.

anyway i'll give it some thought. I'm currently working on another future one, which i haven't told u about. I might send via email if that's ok, it's 28 pages thus far, but u can skim  it.
I noted your comments re the Key about google. Fair enough buddy, i'll take it!
cheers and ta again.



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rendevous
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Welcome Stevie.

I thought Sent started really well then kinda lost it when Larry appeared.

Email away lad. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
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Stevie,

apologies for taking a month to read this. Wasn't my intention at all. I started off good, but then I lost my first notes and then it took me a long time to get back to it. After that, I sort of read a few pages every day. Not the ideal way to read and comment on a script. Still, I hope some of this can be useful to you.  

My thoughts on your story is that it's very ambitious. I like the idea or I guess I should say "ideas". IMHO however the stories are just too big to fit them all into one script. I personally would have loved to read a light hearted typical Stevie style story where the whole story is about them going back in time to save Lennon. I loved that idea and thought it was a fun premise. When you shift gears however, to the 9/11 stuff, this story takes a way too serious turn for me. IMO, you can either write a story about saving Lennon or helping save someone from 9/11, but both of them in one script doesn't work. It's too much. I also had a hard time getting the right feel for the tone here. The way it started out was, like I said, a lighter drama with some funny parts. When Liam and Pete dies, things turn much darker. Digging up old graves...9/11...

The characters were fine. Maybe Liam and Pete were a little too much alike, but sometimes that can happen I suppose. Especially if they are really close and constantly together.

The writing was okay...lots of typos. Including calling Liam "Lima".  There's also a LOT of very dialogue heavy scenes. Maybe look at that and try to trim some. Some of it is purely expositional

I've been busy lately so it's been a week since I read the beginning of your script. My memory of some of the details may be a bit blurry.

My first thought here on page 21 however is that the script has now changed from the story of Liam and Pete going back in time to save John Lennon to the story of Larry and Vince. Two NYC cops. I hope that you somehow have a good reason for this, because right now it feels weird that the story has shifted its focus...  Besides, Larry  and Vince are not very likable after Larry tells us about the chase. Laughing at someone being abused when they have just broken a collar bone and got their legs ripped apart just isn't nice. Not really funny either, but that might just be me.

I think you can trim the dialogue on pages 23-26 quite a bit. Some parts are important, but most of it is just unimportant chatter and since your script is 113 pages, it wouldn't hurt it.

pg 32. Car 24 sounds a little too close to "car 54", but maybe that was your intention.

pg 34. we're doing smellovision now?... If something smells bad you have to show us something so we can imagine it. Gunpowder and something rank smelling. Like what? It certainly can't be the bodies yet since it just happened.

Also,  if they are already dead, would the medics really take them away? Wouldn't the coroner and detectives have to do their part first? Oh, I see, they arrive on the next page.

pg  41.  Jack's comment that he believes Chapman because he said he didn't rob them, just kill them seems really odd to me. I think we need a tad more reason why he would want to kill them for that statement to be believable.

pg  42.  What about finger prints? Shouldn't they check that too before they all touch it.

The following pages you show us Carole and Errol's gravestones and the date they died. After that you show us what happened 9/11. IMO  you shouldn't show us the grave markers first because it totally gives away what's happening next and therefore September 11th day scene reads uninteresting since we already know what's going to happen.

I also didn't get if Errol was with Carole or not. If he was, shouldn't he be on the phone for just a few seconds as well?

And I had a hard time picturing Larry as Chief of Police and his office not being busier under the attack. I don't know how it works, but I would have imagined that it would be total chaos and officers being sent out on the streets to work the crowds and that anyone who's not at work would be called in and such.

pg  57.  Larry has just figured out that the cellphone is a time travel device. how can this work? in 1980 they were both killed and Jack had their phone in his office. how can they still have access to it in the future? Also, how can you be dead and buried and come back alive 25 years later. I suppose you have an answer to this later on.  

pg  58.  shouldn't "Larry's thoughts" be (V.O.)?

pg  60.  Larry does a lot of talking to himself...

pg  64.  I'm very confused too know. Time travel always seem to do that to me.  My thought right now would be, where did they get the phone from in Central Park?

pg  89. why don't they just tell him Larry is waiting outside. He can explain everything to him?

pg  99.  not sure we call them taxi ranks here. may want to look into that.

pg 100.  why is Larry shaking Errol's hand? that seems like an odd thing to do between father and son...

All in all Stevie, I think you did good. I just think you have 2 features on your hands instead of just one.

cheers,

Pia












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stevie
Posted: November 17th, 2010, 10:55pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Pia. Thanks for reading this!  All the points you make are valid, and one day I will get back to this script and re-write it - i have some really good ideas and changes to the story.

This was my first ever script and it shows. Way too much dialogue and awkward writing but I guess we all start somewhere. The original stroy I wrote as a 200 page novel, and i still have pages and pages of unused handwritten stuff!!  Tons of it!!

Jeff reviewed it for me and provided about 5 pages of notes and tips, all greatly appreciated.

It is a very ambitious story, with heaps going on. Maybe it could work better done as TV mini series, I dunno.
I know that Liam and Pete are too similair - i will definitely only use one of them in a re-write. In fact, i plan to scrap the whole Liverpool back story and the professor and just have one guy coming from the future (akin to 12 Monkeys, I know)

Its funny cos since I wrote this I changed from a climate change believer into a sceptic, so their quest seems rather tacky to me now!
I know the 9/11 part of it could jar uneasily but, well, it's a historical event now, nad i feel that it and John's murder are intrinsically linked in the very spine of NYC now.

I had another unused sub plot, invloving Marilyn Monroe - the boy have to rescue her from dying, so she can get back with Joe D and their baby will grow up to be Pres or something.  I am currently toying with doing this as a fresh, seperate feature, as I am looking for a new project after finishing the Headlong re-write.

Cheers again Pia for your thoughts.



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