Adm & Eiv by Dustin Bowcott - Sci Fi, Fantasy - Love and rebellion among a group of Interstellar Guardians results in the emergence of the Human Race. 96 pages - pdf, format

Thanks for listing this. I know it is a lot to ask to read a feature and this one should be pretty crisp up until a point so not much wrong int he first 10. If anyone wants to swap feature reads I'll be happy to do so. I have a brief synopsis of this story that I'll lay out for you now:

This is an alternate version of the “Paradise Lost” story with a Sci Fi background. Adm & Eiv follows the fall of Azazel, of alien origin, who sacrifices his position as an Interstellar Guardian in a forbidden act of compassion. Exiled to pre-historic “Erth”, in his bitterness Azazel creates “Helle” for the planets pre-human inhabitants. But not all the inhabitants are the cowed sheep Azazel believes them to be, and the Guardians have long memories. In the end, the inevitable conflict results in the cataclysmic birth of humanity.


Very succinct synopsis and not actually written by me, but I like it enough to use it... that and I'm too lazy to write my own.

What I've set out to achieve with this story is obviously set the (Biblical) Paradise Lost story to a sci-fi background... and in so doing actually make the story, I dare say, believable. Just as with Paradise Lost, this story follows the rise and fall of Azazel (satan) and also the coming together of Adam and Eve.

I've been working on this script for 6 months, this is the third rewrite with a total of probably 8 drafts now. I think there are still weaknesses in this script... but after a while it gets harder to see them. Anyone genuinely capable of seeing those weaknesses and up for a swap, hit me up.

Took a peek just because the idea of doing an alien version of Paradise Lost intrigues me.

Page one may have lost me, though. But if you can explain it here I might proceed. Where it lost me was neanderthals being in North America, which there is no evidence of. Neanderthals were not a world wide phenomena.

In fact, unless you want to go with bigfoot, there were no pre-humans in the Americas.

This is an easy fix. Just switch the location to Europe, if that can work with the story.

The thing is when a writer gets basic facts wrong early in something like sci fi it tends to turn me away because I assume there will be more to follow. That might not be fair, but with an amateur script it's my assumption.

I am interested in the Paradise idea, so maybe you could chip in with an explanation and I will be encouraged to continue.

You've put a lot of work into this, so I hope this kind of thing can be fixed or explained. My fear is that if I have this reaction to the neanderthal thing other readers will as well.

Hi Kevin... thanks for giving it a go. Unfortunately though, if the Cali thing is going to put you off then so may the rest as I have not gone with complete historical fact. I am using artistic license. Neanderthals are also not depicted with ginger fur, nor as being particularly intelligent. The Cro-Magnon were not black and neither are angels, or Nphilim (Nephilim).

I do believe that Neanderthals were relatively intelligent. I also believe it is possible that they were established in N America too. Just as they were in Australia, Africa and Europe, China too. Different types of apes, from a  similar family, developing in different parts of the world at the same time.

This is definitely not an error. I have studied this thing at length. Mostly, when you look deeper, you find a lot of guesswork being made by scientists. They use fragments of evidence to build a picture. However they are missing vital pieces of evidence as one always is when they don't know the full picture. One new discovery could break the mould for everything that has gone before it.

Another reason is this film is for Hollywood and California is the perfect place to film this. It has everything from snow to lush greenery. Lake Crow is obviously Lake Crowley. The Casa Diablo Mountain. How could I not use that? Also too that the Caldera is one huge volcano. Perfect. Volcano equals Brimstone, heat, hell.

This is not a historically accurate portrayal of the Neanderthal movements across the planet. It is the telling of the birth of modern man, my way. I agree that there isn't any credible evidence for neanderthals in America yet, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If you have a feature here Kevin, I'll give it a read.

Thanks for the offer. What I'll do is this, Dustin: I am swamped at the moment with Nicholl's final deadline being April 31. After that if I can dig deeper I will. I'm not going to suggest any reads of my own stuff at this time just because I wish to avoid commitments at the moment.

I believe the opinion on neanderthal intelligence as moved quite a bit in recent years. They had larger brains than homo sapiens and more signs of sophistication are found every year. So I can readily buy into the activity you portray them with.

I'm not sure they have bee located in Australia, or sub-Saharran Africa. For the most part they are Europe. However, their genes are found in all humans except Africans. This suggests significant cross breeding at some point. That's my memory of it anyway.

Quoted from KevinLenihan Thanks for the offer. What I'll do is this, Dustin: I am swamped at the moment with Nicholl's final deadline being April 31. After that if I can dig deeper I will. I'm not going to suggest any reads of my own stuff at this time just because I wish to avoid commitments at the moment. I believe the opinion on neanderthal intelligence as moved quite a bit in recent years. They had larger brains than homo sapiens and more signs of sophistication are found every year. So I can readily buy into the activity you portray them with. I'm not sure they have bee located in Australia, or sub-Saharran Africa. For the most part they are Europe. However, their genes are found in all humans except Africans. This suggests significant cross breeding at some point. That's my memory of it anyway.

Ok, thanks Kevin.

Yes you are right, I was getting confused with modern humans.

Good luck with the Nicholl.

I read the first ten pages and I can say that I like this!

The imagery really sticks out for me, lush area to the absence of space in just the first ten pages.

I also like the NPHILIM not having a specific gender, which yes is what a Nphilim is but it's not very typical in a film.

Would the Nphilim speak another language? Or is this the Hollywood term of everyone speaks English, it doesn't bother me but I'm just curious to know.

Quoted from JamesTheJudged I read the first ten pages and I can say that I like this! The imagery really sticks out for me, lush area to the absence of space in just the first ten pages. I also like the NPHILIM not having a specific gender, which yes is what a Nphilim is but it's not very typical in a film. Would the Nphilim speak another language? Or is this the Hollywood term of everyone speaks English, it doesn't bother me but I'm just curious to know.

Thanks for the read. The Nphilim do speak another language but to make things easy, particularly as they spend a lot of time in the script, I decided to just use English.

Thanks again.

New LogLine for this script:

When a divine alien species becomes marooned on Earth, their interaction with the indigenous Neanderthals creates an epic conflict that will go on to become the basis for the bible.

Quoted from Courhaw i'm always curious about the originator of any comments made regarding my scripts. so, to the end, i decided to give your work a read. dustin, why is a large forest capped? does this script purport to say that the history of the bible started in california, among neanderthals. i'm certainly not in the demo which gins to such a far-flung concept. is this a shooting script? your first slug line seems to make the suggestion that it is one. neanderthals, with ginger, are deftly fishing with sharpened wood stakes. yeah, that's pretty passive. and, since it's so early on, it ruins the read. then, there's one child who tries to catch a fish in her hand...? wow, yeah. a short distance away there's a haphazard? well, you should have explained exactly what that haphazard was...how do i know what kind of haphazard it is? why would it be there if it's a hazard? haven't the ginger coated neanderthals seen it before? if so, why haven't they gotten rid of it? what makes it hazardous? also, you didn't end that sentence... trays woven from grasses? a huge explanation of where they...and all of that sort of filler material just needs to go. what good is it? what purpose does it serve for the story? farm area containing...wow, an adverb...some call them gerunds...come on, man, you're better than that, surely, no? dude, look, here's my advice...try harder. not only does your style need a big uplift, but your story sucks. who in the heck is going to like neanderthals in ice age california starting the bible story? think about it, man. so, after reading about a half of page of yours, the jury is in with its verdict. thanks, again, dustinbowcott. i got ya loud and clear, friend. oh, i noticed you seemed to have just ignored my other work that's posted. don't worry, i'll chalk it up to your busy schedule. peace.

I should add that for some odd reason courhaw posted this review to my private messages.

Thanks for the review courhaw.

Just for the record courhaw, here is the definition of haphazard: lacking any obvious principle of organization.

Oh my.

dustinbowcott, i sent you the email b/c i clicked on your link and read your script. and, not knowing that it was posted here on the thread, i wanted to give you my feedback. anyway, don't take it so hard, dustinbowcott. as long as you believe in your work, it doesn't matter who thinks it sucks.

well, now is haphazard a thing or an idea? the way you wrote it makes it seem to be a thing. as i know it, and as you've pointed out to me, haphazard describes a state of being, dustinbowcott. i was confused, to say the least.

just returning the favor for your time and effort, dustinbowcott. i truly do appreciate your review, as well.

Quoted from courhaw dustinbowcott, i sent you the email b/c i clicked on your link and read your script. and, not knowing that it was posted here on the thread, i wanted to give you my feedback. anyway, don't take it so hard, dustinbowcott. as long as you believe in your work, it doesn't matter who thinks it sucks. well, now is haphazard a thing or an idea? the way you wrote it makes it seem to be a thing. as i know it, and as you've pointed out to me, haphazard describes a state of being, dustinbowcott. i was confused, to say the least. just returning the favor for your time and effort, dustinbowcott. i truly do appreciate your review, as well.

I had to actually take a look at the script to figure out what you were talking about, and this is the section here:

Code A short distance from the lake's edge rests a haphazard MARKET where the Neanderthals trade food and artistic trinkets laid out on trays made from grasses that are woven by another close-by trader.

Now I realise why you got confused. You would need to know the definition of haphazard, that would really help...

You also aren't sharp enough to pick up on the style used. That's unfortunate... for you. Most people are intelligent enough to grasp it right away.

very well, dustinbowcott. thanks, again.

Hey Dustin, just perusing threads this morning I came across the exchange above.

I felt compelled to add that haphazard is an adjective, used to describe a noun -- while you have used it as a noun in the above context -- hence the confusion.

Quoted from bert Hey Dustin, just perusing threads this morning I came across the exchange above. I felt compelled to add that haphazard is an adjective, used to describe a noun -- while you have used it as a noun in the above context -- hence the confusion.

No I haven't. It is used correctly as an adjective to describe the MARKET.

Ahh...I see.  It is a formatting choice.  I get it now.

Then you are not wrong, technically -- so instead, you are advised that two experienced readers were confused by the choice you made.

That is feedback you can choose to ignore -- or you may choose to consider, when trying to look at your work objectively through the eyes of others.

Well after analysing the situation... it appears to me that courhaw had no idea what haphazard meant. His review is a revenge review for a review I gave on one of his scripts. I know, that's a lot of reviews for one sentence.

You're a moderator. You moderate. You see a situation and look for the wrong in both parties. I think you deliberately chose to ignore my style for favour of finding an angle whereby you could encourage better relations between two members.

I've also had reads of this elsewhere, one (albeit informal) from a professional reader that said he liked my style. Quite a lot of people have read it and this is the first time I've seen people not pick up on what is so obviously a style choice.

Actually, I've also had two professional reads on this script. One for a website I set up and another at Blcklst that I paid for... and neither said anything about the style. I just remembered about those two. I think the one at blcklst was a female as she called the script misogynistic. It didn't get a pass.

I paid for those reads because this script is a headache and I was hoping for some clarity on where to take this script next. It's a huge budget, one of them said over 100 million, which is also a part of the problem.

Here is the review it got from a reader on Blcklst:

SCRIPT EVALUATIONS

Era:
Ice Age (63001 BC)

Locations:
California

Budgets:
Blockbuster

Genre:
Sci-Fi Thriller, Sci-Fi & Fantasy

Logline:

When a divine alien species becomes marooned on Earth, their interaction with the indigenous Neanderthals creates an epic conflict that will go on to become the basis for the bible.

Strengths:

This script’s greatest strength is its ambition and imagination. The way the story creates a new mythological explanation for everything from heaven and hell (and many other biblical tales) is imaginative and intriguing. The writing itself is also very strong and easy to read and, the Ice Age setting, replete with animals long extinct, is a lot of fun.

Weaknesses:

Though rich with ideas, there is a lack of a central narrative focus in which to emotionally invest. ADM has great potential to be a fascinating protagonist, but his story seems secondary to AZAZEL’S domination of the Neanderthal species. As a result, the script’s increasingly pushing and brutal violence begins to take its toll on the audience. There is also a disconcerting amount of gratuitous sexual violence, especially directed against women. Though rape can be used effectively in film to inform character or illustrate a grander thematic point, here it feels like an overly used device, meant only to advance the plot. There is so much of it (and so little of it informs character), that it becomes gratuitous and borderline misogynistic. In the end, the love story between Adm and Eiv seems hasty and could use a stronger, more clearly defined arc, in order to really show that through their love, they will go on to become the future of the human race.

Prospects:

The extreme, graphic violence in this movie would likely earn it an R rating, which may be hard to justify for a film with a high, effects-driven budget. Without rewrites to strengthen Adm’s character arc (and hero’s journey) and to build his love story with Eiv, this project’s path to production would likely be difficult.

Quoted from DustinBowcot I think you deliberately chose to ignore my style...

Sheesh...no Dustin.  I read your brief exerpt (post 12) and (scout's honor) thought (at first glance) that it was an inadvertent, incomplete sentence.  A typo, perhaps.  Yes, I do admit that I read it fast, at a glance -- as will most readers.

Your eplanation clarified things, but that point is, I needed the explanation -- and I thought it might be considered helpful to let you know.  A spot where you clearly knew what you were doing, but a reader trips over it nevertheless.

No ulterior motives, but I'll stop now.  Cheers.

Quoted from bert Sheesh...no Dustin.  I read your brief exerpt (post 12) and (scout's honor) thought (at first glance) that it was an inadvertent, incomplete sentence.  A typo, perhaps.  Yes, I do admit that I read it fast, at a glance -- as will most readers. Your eplanation clarified things, but that point is, I needed the explanation -- and I thought it might be considered helpful to let you know.  A spot where you clearly knew what you were doing, but a reader trips over it nevertheless. No ulterior motives, but I'll stop now.  Cheers.

OK, I'm willing to concede that perhaps taking the passage out of context and reading it quickly would do that.

However, it is still an obvious style choice that I use in every script I write and this is the first time I've ever had it pointed out to me where people have not actually realised it is a style choice.

So, I'm going to take all of those scripts.. around 9, if you count the two I'm writing for other people, and all of those reviews of those scripts... then add them against this one situation where one guy didn't know what haphazard actually meant in the first place and the other guy admits he read it quickly... and do a quick calculation.

Uhm... yeah, I think I'll stick with my style choice. Thanks.

Dustin, while this script is at the top of the portal I figured I'd take the opportunity to suggest that you might want to consider using different screenwriting software.  I don't know what program you've got but the font is light and hard on the eyes.

I use Celtix and love it.  Just a suggestion.  Looks are everyrthing.

As for the story itself, not really my cup of tea, but you've got some writing skills.

Good luck.

Quoted from NickSedario Dustin, while this script is at the top of the portal I figured I'd take the opportunity to suggest that you might want to consider using different screenwriting software.  I don't know what program you've got but the font is light and hard on the eyes. I use Celtix and love it.  Just a suggestion.  Looks are everyrthing. As for the story itself, not really my cup of tea, but you've got some writing skills. Good luck.

This was written in Office... although I do use Celtx now. Thanks for the encouragement.

why so wry, dustinbowcott? you still have not answered the central question here which is: what makes the market haphazard? that it's there merely by chance? wouldn't that appearance then speak to a perplexing schism between your construction of the neanderthal haven as a place where seemingly civilized pre-humans exist and thrive and the sort of disorganized thought processes that slap-dashing an important aspect of neanderthal life in california would suggest? where does the randomness come into play there in any way that makes any sense to logical folks. maybe american english and british english are just that finely divided in terms of semantic nuance that haphazard -- which can be employed as either a noun, adverb or adjective, carries different meanings in certain instances involving uncommon usages. search me.

but here's the problem, you can't mix tenses the way that you have done and expect to pass it off as standard english usage, dustinbowcott. my point, just beyond the market, lies a farm area which contains haphazard areas -- first off, has no one told you to never use a word in your descriptions which was just appeared in your slug...? what makes this area haphazard, dustinbowcott? what's askew? what's out of place? it's your job to identify and explain your world to others, dustinbowcott. it seems to me that these pre-human beings have sort of carefully and thoughtfully planned out their culture and society -- they, obviously, have learned to use sharpened tools for hunting. so, if they're that intelligent, then it begs, why would they not be able to organize a market, or make rows for crops and dedicated areas for their animals? in this instance, haphazard seems to have been chosen b/c it sounded good to you, versus it having any relation to the world which you're attempting to describe. its use is non sequitur when taken in totality with the other elements of your burgeoning world.

you see where people who have read your work might legitimately be confused, yet? it has nothing to with your stylistic preference, dustin, although, personally, i'd call that a common formatting choice rather than "style" choice. millions of people do it.

there's also a litany of gerunds embedded in your work, dustinbowcott. those are passive, and many of them, when appearing in such close proximity, are just destructive. perhaps you didn't plan them to appear so closely together, in which case they'd be sort of...haphazardly placed...call me stupid...but i've never seen haphazard used to modify a market or farm area.

look, how many people have told you by now that big chunks of stuff on page are bad? as i read just over the first few pages -- actually, i just scrolled them, i counted three, four, mostly four and six line blocks of descriptions. your pages are a black hole of telling. this, to me, appears to a sort of legend story where the world needs to be built before the story can be told coherently. that's fine, but it's not up to the reader to define that world for you, dustinbowcott. that's something that must be done by you in a way that allows the reader to engage the story.

as it stands, your writing is unsettling and unorthodox.
revenge review? nope, just paying you back for your favor, dustinbowcott. it's called reciprocating. you did for me -- i did for you.

in the past, i would have gotten really upset and tried to tear you to shreds, dustinbowcott. now i know that it's just worthless doing so. so here's my advice to you.

listen to what others have to share with you. sure, you really believe in your work. who doesn't believe in their own work? and, sure, you've spent six months or more working on it. that's a big commitment, dustinbowcott. but it's not there yet. and, if i'm the one who's speaking, it's a very great distance from there. but that's just me.

as far as the childish name-slinging goes, hey, i was there at one point, too, dustinbowcott. no hard feelings.

i noticed that you took the extraordinary measure of posting your pro review. though i'm not sure why, since you did, let's look at proportions, quantifications, if you will. strengths -- three lines. weaknesses -- eight lines. prospects -- three lines closed with rewrites necessary, minimal chance of production, r-rating, hard to justify, path...difficult.

dustinbowcott, don't blame me for your failure to clearly express your thoughts and ideas on page. from all appearances, you got everything that i wrote without any problems.

well, look at how far the rosetta stone has gotten us.
best of luck to you, dustinbowcott. and try to simmer down some, eh?

dustinbowcott, you would make a great analysand. best of luck moving fwd.

honestly, i wish you luck, dustinbowcott.

You two lovebirds need to get a room.

Silverback beat me to it.