Quoted from DustinBowcot People always disagree regarding reviewing style... but, honestly, a writer needs to be strong and believe in themselves. No matter the delivery, or what a review says. A review with good intentions can be more damaging than an honest one that bluntly says what they think is wrong. Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1. Also, these are always just one opinion... at least with Jeff, you know you're going to get his honest feelings. He's always been good to my scripts when they've deserved it.

I think for the most part we will have to agree to disagree, and that's fine by me.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Sometimes the writer deserves a bashing... like Frank in round 1.

I have a pretty thick skin for this sort of thing, the feedback for the technical writing I do for work is usually blistering, unfair, and often both.

But to nitpick just a bit... no one is being paid here, but most would like to be paid for their writing at some point. Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.

Taking that to an extreme twists your review into knots (after all, it's clearer to say the writer made this mistake than to say the script contains this mistake), so sprinkle in some of that rarest of commodities... common sense.

Edit: Also, round 2 script is faring better. This is an extremely low bar, but I'll take it

Quoted from FrankM Therefore it behooves people to act professionally: bash the work, not the author.

That's definitely true. We should be reviewing the scripts, not the writers. Any comments towards the writer makes it personal and judgmental, and we can't really judge a person based on the script we read.

Like when I reviewed Jeff's round 1 script, I called it racist and sexist. Jeff, you took that personally, but I was commenting what I saw on the page. I don't know if you are sexist or racist, I highly doubt it, but the pages speak for themselves. Whether that was your intention or not, whether it was a choice or not, I can't say and haven't given another thought to.

Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it? I didn't mean it as in trying to crush a writer's will to write.

Obviously, a newbie, or somebody not as forum-savvy as yourself should never be bashed on a personal level. It just wouldn't be taken in the same spirit.

Congrats to those who finished at the top or near it and encouragement to all for round II.

In terms of the theme on critical comments....My opinion ---

Rude comments should not be conflated with honest (frank) comments. One can be quite frank and objective without being mean. The warning signs I see in this regard are:

Confusing what a writer has done with the writer's motive or character.

Okay to say the first header is not formatted correctly because...(insert whatever)

Not quite okay to take that objective thing and conclude that the writer is (insert appropriate insult here, e.g., lazy). Because the reviewer has no way of knowing. The writer could have busted their ass try to right it in the best way possible.

Hyperbolic errors

Taking a technical issue or perhaps a series of technical issues and over stating their relative importance. e.g.,  You didn't CAP your character when intro'd - the writing is terrible!.

To me, empathy is always a good thing to have in the tool box. To me when you see a crappy script, keep the honest feedback, but throttle down on the diatribe. You know the writer was struggling. And there never is the need to insult. I mean - what objective is being served??? Does "It's stupid not to put a time in your header" provide any more value than - "You need to put a time in your header."??

Now, I do agree that writers should not demand any requirements in the critiques they receive. It's free. Have the backbone to take it or leave it.  That being said, that does not make it ideal for reviewers to review in a hostile manner. We can have both.  Writers accepting criticism for what it is AND no mean-spirited reviews. It really isn't that hard.

Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Some good counterbalancing points there. Very insightful. Thanks, Dave.

Thanks, mate.

I think that a good script will make the reader swallow all of his "bad writing" comments and make him mark accordingly. If a script fails to do so it's a writer's fault.

We just need to learn to take it. Some writers can't because they started with good scripts. They  have more of a talent I guess. So what? Those writers still have a long road to go. Try to match up to someone better. There's usually always someone better out there.

So, the bottomline is - oh, just take it.

Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures.

An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded.

As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful.

He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.

All great points.

If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write

Quoted from Warren Thanks, mate. I really enjoyed yours as well. Just need to change that last scene and you'll have a great little short all round. Glad to see you up the top as well. I think your writing has come a long way

Thanks, Warren. I really appreciate the words. I still have a long way to go, but every little step is a step closer.

Quoted from DustinBowcot Frank... I meant it only in that you're usually a good writer... so when you do something bad, does it really hurt to bash you a little for it?

I am continually impressed with the mostly-fully-formed stories that OWC regulars churn out on demand; my vomit drafts seem... vomittier. Hopefully it’s something I can get better at.

Quoted from leitskev Reviews should be given with a goal of being constructive to the writer. Slamming a script absolutely can be constructive...but the reviewer should at least keep the goal of being constructive in mind. This is a forum for writers. It's important to help writers improve, not to make them quit or leave the forum in search of more constructive pastures. An exercise like an OWC can make it hard for us to do this because we're reading multiple scripts, all of them raw and forced into weird parameters. So I'm sure almost everyone of us has left remarks that could have been more tactfully worded. As far as Jeff, I first encountered him in 2011 when I joined. He was as brutally frank in his opinions then as now. He was also the only person willing to get to know me and give honest feedback. And it was extremely helpful. He's not going to change. The things that bothered him about scripts 10 years ago still bother him. The script issues he focuses on might strike some of us as obsessive, but he's judged every script he's read in at least 10 years exactly the same way. He's not playing favorites. A writer has to take his notes, like anyone's and decide what he agrees with and what he doesn't. It can be maddening at times! lol But it has a value.

Constructive is a nice ideal.  Some peeps misinterpret it as pandering - it's not. It's just giving advice in a non-destructive manner.

Being "frank" is fine. I've never understood the benefit of being brutally frank when just being frank gets the job done.  It's a weak move, IMO.  

Quoted from Matthew Taylor If anyone gets offended by or thinks something I have written is harsh and not in the spirit of things then please call me out on it as I most likely don't realize I'm doing it... I'm terrible at human interaction which is why I hide away and write

Your reviews across the board have stood out to me these two rounds. Some excellent advice. I read a script, write a review, check the other reviews... boom, there you are... me: "That's a great point." It's happening consistently.

So, I'd say... keep on keeping on.

Oh, and great first round script for you. Well done. Can't wait to see which is yours this round.