Hallow Knights by Timothy F. Betts (souter fell) - Adventure - When teenager Jamie Casey develops an incredible power he is recruited by Hallow City's veteran vigilante, the Citadel. 124 pages - pdf, format

Hey Tim,

Thought I'd give this a read and try to bump it up a little bit for you.  Seems like lately, once a feature disappears off the portal, it has a chance of staying gone for a bit.

I've read the opening scene so far, and it's a pretty good hook.  You've set up the characters pretty well, and I can see all the elements and complications with the Citadel's vigilante lifestyle.  By the way, isn't there a comic book hero called the Citadel out there?

One thing I've seen so far is the description of things that won't translate to film.  "He takes a drink...it won't be his last".  Things like that add to the reading experience, but it also takes up space, causing it to not be as neat and clean.

In the scene with Jamie after his "run in" with Dirk, I think there should be something in there where he states his case.  He seems to go along with it a little too easily given the way it happened.

I don't think you need the start and end montage tags on pages 62 & 64.  Those read more like normal scenes than a montage.

The radio announcer at the top of page 75 is a VO.

I thought this was a pretty good script, and pretty much right in line with what I think the first script in a superhero series should be, more of an origins storyline.  I was hoping to see a little more of Valentine as the villain, but I'm assuming that you have plans to dive into this storyline again at some point with a sequel, which will probably bring it to the forefront now that the Widower is gone.

Remembering what you had said about this being a comic before, I had that in my head as I was reading and could definitely see it in that form.  The pacing was pretty much spot on in that regard, IMO.

I liked the subtleness of The Widower as villain.  Not too over the top, but you definitely to a good feel for what he was about.

I'd go back and look at how you refer to the characters at times, since I see you jump back and forth between Thurman and the Citadel pretty rapidly, and I'd definitely lose the part in the store where he's referred to as "Wool Cap Man" or something along those lines.  Definitely complicated.  The Hooded Man and Widower references could probably be changed to, but those were pretty consistent as far as before and after the change.

Anyway, this was a good superhero story, and to quote you ...

"Good show"

Hello Tim,

I've started reading the script and I'm making notes.

So far I can see that it's a clean looking script.  There's a few spots I've found so far where it's overwritten with things that maybe don't need to be there, but mostly I see a good piece of work.

I know that this is a super hero universe, but one thing I'll mention: Where I live in Canada, GP doctors don't take blood.  (Unless they're vampires).  Seriously, they don't do blood taking or any kind of service work really.  If you want service, go to the gas station or Canadian Tire.  In fact, come to think of it, GP doctors don't really do much.

Oh yes they write the odd prescription, look funny and say, "I don't really know what that could be."  Sometimes they like to get some exercise so they wander the halls of hospitals while men and women nurses dash around like crazy.

Some doctors: the emergency doctors and some specialists actually "do things," so I just thought I'd mention it.  Like I said: not that you need it in this universe, but for future reference.

I think that this story has wide appeal to young people.  What young boy who gets picked on doesn't dream of gaining super hero skills?  I think this is marvelous.

Your easy character cues with Haley blowing smoke out the window is really crafty.  

I'll work through this during the next couple of days and give you more feedback.

You can be proud of this script!

Sandra

Hey Tim,

At the moment, I'm around 50 pages in, I'll be done by tomorrow after class.  So for now I'm merely taking notes but what I've read so far is certainly that of a solid and interesting storyline.  So here are my notes so far:

Pg. 3 - FSSSSST!  Sound effects like that are usually SFX's you stray away from in this format I would say.  No one would really know what the purpose of that would be.  Just saying the figure shoots Tiki in the back of the neck with a silenced custom pistol works fine.  The need for SFX's like this are unnecessary unless your making an A/V script.

Pg. 5 - MRS. HALEY sits by weeping.  I think you meant Mrs. Reiley because she continued sobbing on page six, plus Haley's fitted Mr. Reiley with the wire.

Pg. 7 - I understand Citadel's a hero, but that bit on calling him defender of innocent and hero of Hallow's is unnecessary in action sequences.

Jamie's parents, haha oh man, even in MY family my dad could wake me up, grad school too, haha.  But I get it, build up for a kid with some tough luck.  Parents can be cruel, even if they mean well, ha.  Nice touch with that scene.

Dirk � Again, I see where you�re going with this, and although somewhat clich�it fits the scene perfectly.  Building up to the image of some nobody becoming a hero.  Funny too.  Nice work.

Pg.12 � You spell spunky girl with grrl.

Pg.14 � Talk to you later, alright.  Should end with a question mark.

Pg.17 � Building up again, I dig it, but getting suspended for tackling the bully jock doesn�t sit right.  If it�s football then would the coach really nail Jamie and get him suspended for tackling Dirk?

Pg.22 � Cooke�s voice plays on the MP3 file.  If it�s just his voice then add the (V.O) symbol.

Pg.25 � In her crib?  Man THAT�S hardcore bud, I like that.  Pretty sad and low how gang bangers roll, but man Michael and Sully�s scene is just superb.  Nice work.

Pg.28 � Deal or no deal�s on.  Again, with ignoring the kid, showing a cold relationship, they showed us a pilot like this once, it kind of doesn�t work if the kid�s not likeable, but so far, he�s a relatable kid.

Pg.35 � After getting socked in the stomach, Jamie fails to the ground.  Should be falls.   Also, nice work with Dunk�n Donuts, gave me a chuckle, haha.

Pg.36 � Jamie stands in a circle of moaning bodies,  you could be much more descriptive in how Jamie beat down Dirk and the entire offensive line.  Or at least showing him beat down Dirk, lord knows nothing is more satisfying then watching bullies get their comeupance.

Widower, all that building up, with the grave, Sully, the images, his backstory, the duffle bag, all to Red, all as he reveals himself as The Widower, a great touch and great build to a possible antagonist to this story.  

So overall it's a very solid looking story.  I think it's got a good mix between the life of Citadel, the criminal side antagonists, The Widowers' life, and the comedic life of Jamie building up into something really good here.  I'll post the rest of my notes tomorrow.  Keep up the good work.  

Mike,

Thanks for being the first read. I'm glad it sounded like you enjoyed it. I purposely left the laptop alone yesterday, fighting the urge to check it every other minute. SOunds like this is getting good reviews. Anyway...

Quoted Text By the way, isn't there a comic book hero called the Citadel out there?

Not sure. I'm not familiar if there is one but I wouldn't rule it out. All I know is the college, military if I think but I'll look into it.

Quoted Text One thing I've seen so far is the description of things that won't translate to film.  "He takes a drink...it won't be his last".  Things like that add to the reading experience, but it also takes up space, causing it to not be as neat and clean.

I was cautious of that line. There are a couple that I left in to imply tone without being overt. I know its not my job to be the director but I thought maybe it would gve enough of a clue for the director to achieve this feel. Then again it does create (pardon the screenwriting pun) a Widower so, ha, so, so, anyway.

Quoted Text In the scene with Jamie after his "run in" with Dirk, I think there should be something in there where he states his case.  He seems to go along with it a little too easily given the way it happened.

I see what you mean. I wanted to really start piling on between school and homelife how no one listens to Jamie. Maybe I went a little too far.

Quoted Text I don't think you need the start and end montage tags on pages 62 & 64.  Those read more like normal scenes than a montage.

Wasn't sure. Thanks for the heads up.

Quoted Text was hoping to see a little more of Valentine as the villain, but I'm assuming that you have plans to dive into this storyline again at some point with a sequel, which will probably bring it to the forefront now that the Widower is gone.

Yeah. I purposely left a lot of storylines hanging, with Haley, Valentine, and Cooke. And then there's the whole origin of the Citadel. The movie that you don't see. I'll probably revisit this story. Thought maybe doing it almost like a Godfather II dual storyline.

Quoted Text I liked the subtleness of The Widower as villain.  Not too over the top, but you definitely to a good feel for what he was about.

That was my main goal with him. It's said that the best villians are the ones who truly think what they are doing is right. If I could get the audience, knowing he's a villian, to feel sympathy, I would be very happy

Quoted Text I'd go back and look at how you refer to the characters at times, since I see you jump back and forth between Thurman and the Citadel pretty rapidly,

I was very wary about this. Between secret identities and trying to keep a little mystery it might have gone to far.

Thanks so muh for the review. I really appriecate you taking the time to give my baby a chance.

Hey Sandra,

Thanks a lot for the read. Glad you think its clean and tight. I'm always worried about typos but your fine tooth comb can never be fine enough sometimes.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. So far I can see that it's a clean looking script.  There's a few spots I've found so far where it's overwritten with things that maybe don't need to be there, but mostly I see a good piece of work.

I was worried a little about being overwritten, being an action-y script. Glad most of it worked.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. I know that this is a super hero universe, but one thing I'll mention: Where I live in Canada, GP doctors don't take blood.

Honestly, it's been so long since I've been to a regular doctor. I got out of the Navy earlier this year and, for better or for worse, the docs on the boat will do anything stiches or below.

Quoted from Sandra Elstree. I think that this story has wide appeal to young people.  What young boy who gets picked on doesn't dream of gaining super hero skills?  I think this is marvelous.

Why thank you.

Glad you liked it. Thanks for the write-up.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Hey Tim, At the moment, I'm around 50 pages in, I'll be done by tomorrow after class.  So for now I'm merely taking notes but what I've read so far is certainly that of a solid and interesting storyline.  So here are my notes so far: [quote=BigK]Pg. 3 - FSSSSST!  Sound effects like that are usually SFX's you stray away from in this format I would say.

I figure that a) it was a sound which usually gets capitolized and b) that the reader, like the audience, would wonder "what was that sound" and then figure it out when Tiki collapses and Citadel explains.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg. 5 - MRS. HALEY sits by weeping.  I think you meant Mrs. Reiley

Guilty as charged.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg. 7 - I understand Citadel's a hero, but that bit on calling him defender of innocent and hero of Hallow's is unnecessary in action sequences.

Sometimes I get carried away with unnessacary tone. I was just trying to signal the immenseness (?) and powerful presence of our hero as he is introduced in full likght for the first time. Sorry.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Jamie's parents, haha oh man, even in MY family my dad could wake me up, grad school too, haha.  But I get it, build up for a kid with some tough luck.  Parents can be cruel, even if they mean well, ha.  Nice touch with that scene.

Glad you thought that worked. I presented them that way to not only to help justify the ending, but to show that you don't have to be abusive to be bad, just indifferent.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg.12 � You spell spunky girl with grrl.

Am I showing my age. It was kinda a reference to the old riot grrl lifestyle of the mid-late 90's. I just couldn't bring myself to make her emo or goth.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg.17 � Building up again, I dig it, but getting suspended for tackling the bully jock doesn�t sit right.  If it�s football then would the coach really nail Jamie and get him suspended for tackling Dirk?

Trying to show the favortism. Should probably include it as a touch or flag football game.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg.25 � In her crib?  Man THAT�S hardcore bud, I like that.  Pretty sad and low how gang bangers roll, but man Michael and Sully�s scene is just superb.  Nice work.

Even though it's not shown, to quote my girlfriend "you gotta give credit to any movie that has the balls to kill a kid"

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Pg.36 � Jamie stands in a circle of moaning bodies,  you could be much more descriptive in how Jamie beat down Dirk and the entire offensive line.  Or at least showing him beat down Dirk, lord knows nothing is more satisfying then watching bullies get their comeupance.

I think I was trying to give a little more focus to Keefe's reaction.

Quoted from Kamran Nikhad Widower, all that building up, with the grave, Sully, the images, his backstory, the duffle bag, all to Red, all as he reveals himself as The Widower, a great touch and great build to a possible antagonist to this story.

Thanks, I think he turned out really well.

Can't wait to what you think about the rest of the script. I think you'll enjoy it. Thanks.

Hey Timothy,

Just finished Hallow Knights and I must admit I liked it. It's a fast read - although somewhat cloggy at times (but I'll get to that later) - action packed and really really funny. To me it's like a cross between X-Men, Hulk and V for Vendetta, but I gotta say that the context reminded me a little too much of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns (it might be coincidental but I just had to get that out).

Story wise it is pretty straight forward, a kinda fish-out-of-water story combined with a revenge plot, but I think you kept it pretty interesting with Jamie's "development". It would have been have been nice to know a little more about why he suddenly turns "Hulk", but it still works regardless. Like I mentioned earlier, the story gets a little cloggy, there are a couple of subplots that really doesn't go anywhere and instead they distract from the core story. The whole Haley/Thurman/Valentine plot doesn't get resolved. It'll probably be painful for you, but I think you could cut out Haley all together cos' her character doesn't really bring anything to the story, especially since her and Thurman's "relationship" is not resolved but instead it's kinda left hanging. Dirk and his friends, I guess they are useful in order to show Jamie's new powers but that whole subplot is very cliche. You could probably reveal Jamie's new found powers in a more original way I think.

There are a lot of characters in this script - too many I think. You should keep it more simple, because it tends to get pretty confusing regarding who's who. I constantly got a lot of the thugs mixed up, basically because there are so many. I think it would help if you cut back on some of the lesser characters, maybe melt some of them together - just a thought.

To me, Jamie's the main character of this script. I really like that kid, so very well done here, Tim. The same goes for Keefe. I mean, her part's not overly huge or anything (practically a sidekick), but she still comes across very likeable and useful. And I love that you don't go all mushy on them and instead let their little romance blossom in a real teenage fashion. Very believable - well done. My only beef with Jamie is his switch from school boy to super hero (the scene where he goes after Widower the first time), it happens very sudden I think. Up until that he still came across as a fish out of water. And I was amazed at how easy he located Widower. Also, I'm not sure I understood the last scene correct regarding the headstone. It's metaphorical, right? He didn't just disappear from his family, right? If he did, that would seem a bit over the top (even if his parents aren't paying him much attention).

Citadel/Thurman (I'm not crazy about the name Citadel...but that's another story) also works fine. There's something Eastwood'ish about him - and that's always a good thing. The way he mentors and trains Jamie is great (reminds me of Heartbreak Ridge). Again, good work. Cooke needs a little more I think. He's to Thurman what Alfred is to Bruce Wayne. When he finds out about his fathers death he more or less disappears from the story and it would have been great if that little subplot had been resolved. The Widower reminded me a lot of V (from V for Vendetta). At first I thought he was just another vigilante killing bad guys but that obviously changed. It's a nice (but sad) back-story you've given him. Again, a little cliche, but certainly believable.

All in all I think you nailed your "main" characters really well, but you've gotta lose some of the smaller parts.

The dialogue was great. It was quick, crisp and - a lot of times - funny as hell. There are so many excellent one-liners in this script.

Quoted from Hallow Knights RED LION You are trying to lose him, correct?

Brilliant. I also like the banter between Thurman and Jamie in the last scene.

The writing itself was really good, very visual and rich. The fight scenes were nice and short and not overly choreographed, but be careful of not getting your paragraphs too bulky. I might read just as well but it'll look clunky. Another thing, and you probably already know this, only write what can be seen and heard. If you don't show it - we don't know it. It might not be Citadel's last drink as you mention on page 9, but we'll have no way of knowing that if you don't show that (and you don't have to show him actually drinking several shots - there are other ways of doing that). Also, stay away from words like "starts to / begins to". It either rains or it don't (just an example). The same goes for words like IS or ARE, try to write around those - it'll keep the words active thereby increasing the pace. Don't use WE or OUR, those are for shooting scripts (hey, I don't make the rules). I was actually surprised at how well the flashbacks and montages worked - they usually don't - but yours did!

Your format is almost spot on. There are a couple of times where you don't CAP a characters name the first time you introduce them, it's small stuff but still. I've read that - in a scene extension - you should only use DAY or NIGHT, not DUSK, TWILIGHT, DAWN etc. (you can always show that in your descriptions). Regarding slug lines, when you write an interior scene that takes place in a single house but in different rooms it's not necessary to create a new slug like INT - HOUSE - KITCHEN. Just write KITCHEN instead and later BASEMENT (just an example). Also, you should not CAP your dialogue, a simple ! is sufficient. Other than that your format is very solid.

Remember to proof read. It's very easy for me to say this and I know that no matter how many times you proof read your work, something always slip through anyway, but there were a few instances here that kind of disrupted the script a little too much.

Quoted from Hallow Knights page 39 Red Lion nods to one to TOUGH #1, who unholsters his weapon. Silac wiggles in his plaster shell. One shot, right between the eyes. Silac looks over to Rocoo and Watson. Message received.Alfie rolls his eyes.

I'm pretty sure it isn't Silac - who just had his brains blown out - who looks over to Rocoo and Watson. But then again I could be mistaking.

All in all I thought this was a very good script. Sure, it needs some work/trimming, but what script doesn't, huh? I very much look forward to reading more of yours - keep up the good work.

Cheers
Rob

Hey sniper,

It's great to see the response that I'm getting on this. Usually features can sit idle for a while but this board has been great. Anyway...

Quoted from Sniper To me it's like a cross between X-Men, Hulk and V for Vendetta, but I gotta say that the context reminded me a little too much of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns (it might be coincidental but I just had to get that out).

Being a fan of comics, or at least former fan (I've lost track over the years) I can see the Dark Knight Returns nod. It is, in my opinion, the best graphic novel I've ever read (sorry Watchmen lovers). I tried to stay away but it's rough when you hero is a normal (not super) guy with a dark, sad past.

Quoted from Sniper I think you kept it pretty interesting with Jamie's "development". It would have been have been nice to know a little more about why he suddenly turns "Hulk", but it still works regardless.

I see what you mean. I tried to explain it with the point of view that Doc, Citadel, and Jamie still don't exactly know whats going on. They see the effects but are still looking to identify the cause. I think when I go back, I'll try to stress the angle of "we don't know what's going on so we should try to limit it's usage."

Quoted from Sniper The whole Haley/Thurman/Valentine plot doesn't get resolved. It'll probably be painful for you, but I think you could cut out Haley all together

I see what you mean here too. I wanted to show Haley as one of his only friends, even if it was only as the Citadel. I toyed around having Thurman and her relationship blossom but it seemed a little too parallel to Jamie and Keefe. I thought it would sting more if he loses Cooke and Haley at the same time. Valentine was more of clear cut villian to compliment Widower's empathetic character.

Quoted from Sniper Dirk and his friends, I guess they are useful in order to show Jamie's new powers but that whole subplot is very cliche. You could probably reveal Jamie's new found powers in a more original way I think.

Aside from the relatability and comic effect he provides, I was thought it would show the level of Jamie's problems before in relation to the level later. High school bully escaltes to homicidal maniac.

Quoted from Sniper My only beef with Jamie is his switch from school boy to super hero (the scene where he goes after Widower the first time), it happens very sudden I think. Up until that he still came across as a fish out of water. And I was amazed at how easy he located Widower.

It is abrupt. My intention was for Jamie to get wrapped up and engrossed in this new lifestyle and also want to protect Citadel after the beatdown he got. I was worried if this went to fast. Guess it kinda did. As for finding the Widower, Citadel did all the work. Jamie just stumbled on it when he surprise visited Citadel.

Quoted from Sniper Also, I'm not sure I understood the last scene correct regarding the headstone. It's metaphorical, right? He didn't just disappear from his family, right? If he did, that would seem a bit over the top (even if his parents aren't paying him much attention).

Actually he did. Part of movie not seen, he does disappear (via faking his own death) kinda like how the Citadel did when he first started. Citadel earlier makes a point of saying...
"This ain't a great life. And it requires a total commitment. You can't live as two people."
and
"For all intents and purposes, Jamie Casey will be dead. Ain't no such thing as an alter ego"
Only reason Keefe is going to meet up with him is cause after the Gran De Marcos kidnapping thing, she knows about them. May have to rework this.

Quoted from Sniper Cooke needs a little more I think. He's to Thurman what Alfred is to Bruce Wayne. When he finds out about his fathers death he more or less disappears from the story and it would have been great if that little subplot had been resolved.

I think Cooke is definetly the closest thing to a friend Thurman had. Hell he was really the only one he trusted with his identity, aside from Leonard. I thought about bringing Cooke back at the end but I feel that would have been cheating a resolution. After Cooke finds out what Thurman did, we want him to forgive Thurman. But he says no. This life has taken enough of a toll on him as well and he just can't do, not after the revealation.

Quoted from Sniper The Widower reminded me a lot of V (from V for Vendetta). At first I thought he was just another vigilante killing bad guys but that obviously changed. It's a nice (but sad) back-story you've given him. Again, a little cliche, but certainly believable.

Thanks. He was the real make it or break it character. Even though his story is heartbreaking, if he was done poorly he'd become Batman and Robin's "Mr Freeze" or Spiderman's "Harry Osborn" (spider-man killed your father. We get. Move on.) I wanted you to almost be conflicted as to whether or not to root for him.

Quoted from Sniper The dialogue was great. It was quick, crisp and - a lot of times - funny as hell. There are so many excellent one-liners in this script.

Thanks. Tip for anyone. Say all your dialogue out loud. It helps ya see what works and what doesn't.

Quoted from Sniper I was actually surprised at how well the flashbacks and montages worked - they usually don't - but yours did!

thanks. I was worried. I wanted to use the least amount of them to show as much as I could. Between them and a mention of the "Gran De Marcos" tragedy on the news. I also didn't want to just show the scene but rather just how they flash through Widower's mind, regardless of if that's how it actually went down. Kinda like the uunreliable narrator.

Quoted from Sniper I'm pretty sure it isn't Silac - who just had his brains blown out - who looks over to Rocoo and Watson. But then again I could be mistaking.

You're right. I just screwed up.

I'm glad you liked it. After reading "every knee..." I really wanted to get your opinions on this.

Tim

This is up in the movie poster section but thought it should be here too.

What difference can you make?

Quoted from Souter Fell It is, in my opinion, the best graphic novel I've ever read (sorry Watchmen lovers)

I totally agree - I love 'Dark Knight Returns'!

Quoted from Souter Fell It's great to see the response that I'm getting on this. Usually features can sit idle for a while but this board has been great.

Well, you deserve it. You've been very active yourself so it's only right that your script recieves the attention it deserves.

Btw, I meant to say in my review that with 124 pages you're probably pushing it a bit. Every screenwriting book I've read says a script should not be more than 110 pages (depending on genre). Just wanted to mention that.

And congratulation on finishing a feature script - a monumental task in itself.

Cheers
Rob

Hey sniper,

I was always of the mind set of two hours or 120 pages (a page a minute). Whats funny is that I wrote the first draft using a template on word and it came out to 107. After polishing in Celtx which I added some but not that much it jumped up to 123 plus title page. Anyway, I was always of the school that if you land between 115 and 125 you should be ok.

Anyway, movies are so expensive to see nowadays, you might as well buy in bulk.

I was thinking about the length a little bit myself as I read, especially with the abundance of action, but given that all these Spider Man and Superman movies are clocking in at or over 2 1/2 hours, I didn't bother to comment on it.

Hey Tim

I've seen your name (alias) all over the boards so thought I give your script a read. I know you've mentioned this has been something you've been trying to finish in one form or another for ages so congratulations on finally getting there! (feels like I've been working on my first script for ever so I know the pain  )

Anyway, to business...

I really enjoyed this. I'm not a superhero fan boy but this kept me reading. Some of your descriptions are excellent - “It once produced children’s toys; now only tetanus and cockroaches”, “…his backpack vomits on the floor” - I love this sort of language, very evocative and shows you can be succint without being boring.

I see Rob mentioned it in his review as well but there really is some great dialogue and humour in here, something which always raises action / adventure pics for me. Nice work!

On to the constructive criticism...

My main “criticism” (more comment really) is that you’ve got so much material and potential that there simply isn’t room to show it all in one feature.

I think you mentioned somewhere that you’d originally planned this as a comic book. I can see how all the set-ups you have would be repaid in a series of comics but for me there are a few too many for one feature - neither the Haley nor Valentine subplots are really resolved. If you want to keep them in (and can find the space) they really need to affect the outcome – currently they don’t. Personally I’d drop them and spend more time spent on The Citadel’s history and Jamie’s burgeoning powers because I think you can use these to really make the characters stand out…

The angle you have on an otherwise fairly standard superhero is that he is now old and has leukaemia. I’d like to see this in the action sequences – make him fight smarter rather than harder. The suit might compensate for his relative lack of strength but presumably his reflexes and stamina aren’t what they used to be. If you could find some way of demonstrating this in the way he fights rather than through the dialogue it would be all the more powerful. I’ve been trying to think how you could contrast this with how he used to operate without using flashbacks – only thing I could think of is old video footage of when he first appeared on the scene being screened on the news or something.

For Jamie, there’s got to be some negative side-effects from having excess adrenaline (yeah, I’m English) sloshing round inside you. I suspect you have something about this in mind for use later - the low blood glucose levels are mentioned but I don’t think the danger to Jamie is explicit. I guess it’d be hard to illustrate in just one feature, especially where he’s only just discovering his powers and can’t control them as yet, but it would make his situation a lot more complex straight off.

Also, there doesn’t seem to be much discouraging Jamie from joining Citadel – OK, so it’s not a normal life but his life pretty much sucks anyway and he gets to “keep” Keefe. Might be worth playing up the fact that he’s losing his parents a bit.

With regards to the confrontations with Dirk, there was some talk above about the suspension being a bit unrealistic. If you could somehow tie it in to the scene where Jamie pounds Dirk and his cronies you could get a nice parallel going with Citadel’s vigilante action – ie both are doing what they believe is “right” but the authorities (Valentine / the Head Master) see it otherwise. Just a thought (and I know I’ve already mentioned I think you should cut Valentine  )


A couple of queries on the characters’ motivations;

Is the Widower motivated by revenge for his wife or a more general hatred of crime? The conversation with Sully suggests the latter but everything else the former.

Why does Citadel try to save Red? Especially given that they both admit they expected Citadel to be the one who kills Red. Or is it because he has now “retired”? Surely Citadel knows that he hasn’t? Or does he know Red is keeping the underworld in some kind of order? Think you could make this a bit clearer.


And two minor points;

p.98 - Wouldn’t Watson have sneaked a look at the Widower’s revenge file? And run a mile…!?!

p.122 - I’m not really sure why “Jamie” is buried next to the Widower’s wife? Or is the new grave the Widower’s? I’m a bit confused.


Overall I think you've got a great script here - I'd just like to see it a little narrower and deeper.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Adam

Hey Limey,

Thanks for the read.  Seems a lot of the same issues are coming up. That's why you gotta love these boards. Helps ya see the forest through the trees, right.

Quoted from Limey My main “criticism” (more comment really) is that you’ve got so much material and potential that there simply isn’t room to show it all in one feature.

I guess it falls into the whole "everything goes in the first finished draft" philosophy. I realize that when I revisit this a lot of the supporting cast will be put on trial for their survival.

Quoted from Limey The angle you have on an otherwise fairly standard superhero is that he is now old and has leukaemia. I’d like to see this in the action sequences – make him fight smarter rather than harder.

I agree. At the very least, I need to figure out how to get him more war-torn.

Quoted from Limey For Jamie, there’s got to be some negative side-effects from having excess adrenaline (yeah, I’m English) sloshing round inside you. I suspect you have something about this in mind for use later - the low blood glucose levels are mentioned but I don’t think the danger to Jamie is explicit.

I'm with you. What if I can figure out a scene where Jamie over exerting himself almost has dire consequences, say maybe in his first battle with the Widower?

Quoted from Limey Also, there doesn’t seem to be much discouraging Jamie from joining Citadel

Really? If anything, I would think it would be almost crazy to go "sure I'll stop whatever life I had to be with this old curmudgeon."

Quoted from Limey Is the Widower motivated by revenge for his wife or a more general hatred of crime? The conversation with Sully suggests the latter but everything else the former.

Both. As a former cop, he's watched too many criminals slip through. Hence him saying "It's okay. I couldn't do it. Not like that. Not anymore." when he "tells" his wife that he's offically off (the force). Also, if you notice, everyone he kills has something to do with the tragedy that killed his wife.

Quoted from Limey Why does Citadel try to save Red? Especially given that they both admit they expected Citadel to be the one who kills Red.

I wanted to make it seem like they had history. Almost like two old rivals. They want to beat each other, but there is a respect. Plus I don't think the Citadel would just let him be killed. The only crime we see Red commit (remember that we don't actually see all of how widower's wife died, just flashes) is having Silac killed and that's because he made the mistake of kidnapping a child. I think Red is more or a white collar bad guy. More Lex Luther than the Joker but with his own moral code.

Quoted from Limey p.98 - Wouldn’t Watson have sneaked a look at the Widower’s revenge file? And run a mile…!?!

Easy. 'Cause I didn't think about it. Seriously, thanks for pointing this out. I'll be sure to address it.

Quoted from Limey p.122 - I’m not really sure why “Jamie” is buried next to the Widower’s wife? Or is the new grave the Widower’s? I’m a bit confused.

It's clear that this scene needs to be re-written. As well as showing that Jamie has committed to this new "lifestyle" by killing off his former identity, I thought that the audience would at least feel better knowing that Widower is finally resting peaceful next to his beloved. I felt real bad for him (as I hope the audience did) and I figured it would be a little consolation to know that his  pain is over.

Thanks for the insights. Doing the second draft is gonna be a heartbreaker. Good thing I'll hold off for a little bit.

Tim