There is a key player (co-writer, producer, et cetera) who is needed for the development of any phase in a film project, so identify the current phase -- be it concept script, pre-production, et cetera -- then identify the key player on whom you must depend, or in whom you must trust, and CONTACT THAT KEY PLAYER!  Feel at ease when phoning -- or otherwise contacting -- that key player.

Perhaps if these discussion threads are used properly, more of those key players will gravitate towards it, so please consider the following tips for the proper usage of these discussion threads...

ASK QUESTIONS, CONSIDER REPLIES, AND EDIT ... if you are inclined to do so.  Humans are naturally inclined towards following their intuition during the process of creative-writing.  As a creator, you don't ever have to accept anything as it is.

Please be inclined to share the following forms of support for each-other:

-creative brainstorming
-sharing resources
-giving each-other direction (when asked for)
-giving each-other advice.
-sharing knowledge on a wide variety of topics that might be useful to each-other for use in scripts.
-providing each-other with tips for when to market a script, and how to market a script.
-evaluating each-other's scripts, and providing each-other with help in the form of objective opinions.
-Recommending other useful web-sites and resources to each-other.
-Stimulating each-other's creative minds with intelligent and/or witty banter.

Thank you for you time.

Here's a great tip:

Don't just post a script and start asking people to read it.  Read others first and post some feedback.

Don't let your first post be:  'Does anyone want to co-write a screenplay with me?'  We don't know who you are or if you can write.  We're not going to dedicate that much time working with a total stranger who doesn't know how to write a screenplay (otherwise, you would've done it on your own).

Use a spell-checker!!!  It's one thing to have an occasional misspelling or typo in your post, but when every fifth word is misspelled, it shows where you stand with your writing.  If you have to, write your post in Word and run the spell checker through it, then cut and paste it here.

And in a similar vein, don't use abbreviated word when you post.  Using 'u,' instead of 'you,' and 'B4' instead of 'before,' shows laziness.  This site is a writers' forum.  Write like one.


Phil

The bigger problem is the huge number of scripts by people who don't want to be members or people who stay for the first little while and leave to other sites and continue to put new work up but not actually be a member.

Nobody really cares for spelling on message boards, that's why so many make mistakes and fix them later if it really bothers them. In a 90 plus page script it's next to impossible, even you of all people should know that.

It's all unofficial, just suggestions.  People can do whatever is allowed by Don, and that should never be questioned because he so far offers this place for free.  I might donate if I could spare it ... or if I weren't desperate for people to donate to my own site.

I'm reminded of a logline that someone wrote for his sci-fi script.  It was so filled with spelling and grammatical errors it was difficult and annoying to read.  If one paragraph pissed me off, then 120 pages of this would put me on a murderous rampage.


Phil

Well maybe than, look at gamefaqs or imdb. they cannot spell very well over there, I don't see anybody saying anything.

I admit that I suck with grammer, spelling... I mean, it's not hard to get words right the first time if you look hard enough.

I thought about fixing my grammer but you should see my old english papers. There, Their I always mixed them up and just used there all the time. The only way I'd fix my grammer is if somebody said they'd give me a million bucks.

Of course since we are "writers" over here we should be perfect all the time but we're only human. like celebrities, they're only human too but we love and hate them.

Occasional mistakes happen.  That's fine.  However, when a one paragraph synopsis of your script has six--eight--ten mistakes in it, you have a problem.

And gamefaqs and imdb aren't written by writers.  We're writers; we're supposed to be better than that.


Phil

"Write", I agree at times my grammar and such isn't particularly perfect, yet I do agree if you're not going to give a damn about how you write then how are you going to expect to read you're scripts?

I'm not going to mention any names, but they who know who they are.

I'm not sure what "how are you going to expect to read you're scripts?" That is supposed to mean because it seems like you rushed through it and forgot a word.

I've read a lot of scripts with a lot of spelling errors, I tell the writers and they don't ever fix them or seem to care. I've read some of the scripts that have been sold and or produced on here and elsewhere and believe me if that's all they look for it's notgoing to be hard.

Some have a lot of spelling errors.

What does spelling on a message board have to do with a script? To be honest why should I care if a spelling mistake takes away another person who doesn't read my scripts anyway?

I could care less if someone has perfect grammer when i read there script, even if they're an egotistical ass I still give them the benefit of the doubt... No names right, that's how we're working here?

If somebody doesn't read something it's not spelling unless they are superficial jerks with a giant ego, if you're going to read something you will and if you're not you're not. it's that simple.

Again I say nobody is perfect, just some people think everybody should be.

A rather intersting thing dogglebe said: "Don't just post a script and start asking people to read it.  Read others first and post some feedback."

So by this philosophy, if only two scripts were ever posted and each of us believed this wholeheartedly, no one would read anyone's script because neither of us would read the other's because the other hasn't yet read ours.

I think this forum has readers as well as writers on it, or nothing would get read at all, especially if we refuse to read others scripts until they've read ours. To this end, do you wish to criticize the readers' spelling and grammatical errors, since they are not writers? In fact, most of the target audience of modern motion pictures i going to be poor at spelling and grammar. To alienate those who would read but never write seems to alienate a large percentage of those who we wish to cater to.

I agree that writers should be conscientious of their spelling (at least), but sometimes errors happen for a ton of different reasons. To use myself as an example, I am made errors on message boards due to the following reasons: I type insanely fast and the keyboard doesn't always keep up, I don't tend to proof posts as critically as I would a script, my keyboard is wireless which is a somewhat undependable technology (but still kind of cool), my fingers sometimes fall between keys or inadvertently reverse letters (from=form), and yet my scripts are almost error-free. I say almost because no one's perfect. My posts are always perfect either for the same reason.

In this post, I have continually backspaced and corrected error after error for the above mentioned reasons. I try to catch them all, but dog gone, sometimes we miss some.

Lighten up.

I also type really fast but a couple years back when someone brought up this exact same topic about me in general I slowed down for his majesty until he went away.

I agree that you should never just demand people to read your script, i said you should never be the first person to post in your own thread (Eventhough I did it) I shouldn't have done it but I had to tell people about posting spoilers because I believe at times I have posted spoilers and maybe ruined the scripts for others. (Sorry Balt if it hurt any of your scripts review wise by others)

Quoted from George Willson A rather intersting thing dogglebe said: "Don't just post a script and start asking people to read it.  Read others first and post some feedback." So by this philosophy, if only two scripts were ever posted and each of us believed this wholeheartedly, no one would read anyone's script because neither of us would read the other's because the other hasn't yet read ours.

There are those who have upload their scripts on this board, posted, 'Somebody please read my script,' and never be heard from again.  I vaguely recall one person who posted this three times and then disappeared.

I've read a number of scripts on this board and a number of people have read mine.  It's a give-and-take thing.


Phil

I can't see how anyone can claim to be a writer and then not care about their spelling and grammar. It's like saying 'I build houses for a living, but I don't really care about using the right bricks'. I agree that being able to spell does not make you a good writer, but in my opinion, and I know this is harsh, putting no effort into your spelling and grammar makes you a bad writer. You can still be a great storyteller, but not a great writer. Everyone is entitled to make mistakes (and believe me in a spelling contest I would come last), that's what spellcheck and proofreaders are for. And sure the odd one or two typos will still slip through the net, but when every single sentence is grammatically incorrect and every other word is misspelt, who's going to take you seriously. It really frustrates me because its so easy to fix if you just bother to take the time.

I'm talking about scripts by the way, I couldn't care less about messages on the boards with mistakes in them as long as they are readable.

Going back to the other point, I have read a lot of scripts on this site, and posted honest feedback even when I'm pretty sure the writer is never going to come back to see it. This is not because I am an especially nice person, its because analysing  what works and what doesnt in someone elses work it helps me with my writing.

Although I am building up to posting my first ever script on here, and I will pretty p***ed off if no-one reads it.

Who said they didn't care about spelling in scripts? I never said that, I care if my spelling in my screenplays are good or bad. I spellcheck the god damned thing and reformat it twice because I have to go into another program for a good spellchecker.

I wasn't referring to you Wes or in fact anyone in particular, I just know I have read scripts on this site where the writer obviously doesnt care about grammar/spelling. Or maybe they do and they just think what they have written is right, thats actually a more worrying thought.

Shonagh - I'll read your script.

I read a heck of a lot of scripts, but don't post a lot of my thoughts. Only a few I will (or if I specifically say I will).

For me, since I'm not a producer/director, MINOR spelling doesn't irritate me...but, if it's MAJOR mistakes (or common words mis-spelled), then I'll pass and move onto something else.

I read to learn, so story, structure, character arc are all important to me.

It's the scripts that do it for me, if they're good you can't take that away with bad spelling. I think the only problem a lot of people, myself mainly have is grammer. Point out the bad spelling and tell them if they fix that it could get more of an audience.

Some people place the screenplays into html or pdf so you can't actually see the errors as easily, smart.

The only thing I hate about spell check is the fact it says a lot of names and things of that nature are wrong. Especially when it comes to final draft, that program has the worst spell check dictionary ever created.

The one thing it does that hurts scripts is when you type in i in lower case like that it doesn't fix it. I do that a lot because I type fast. So, what i've began doing is taking it into word (When I have it) and spell checking there. I suggest this if you aren't the greatest at spelling, sure it takes an extra 30 - 60 minutes to complete the script in order to ship it but it helps.

When I go wading through the synopses, looking for a script, I pass those with spelling and grammatical errors.  Plain and simple.

If you submit something to an agent and it's filled with such problems, you'll find your work in the garbage mighty fast.


Phil

I see the synopsis if they're bad, I understand where you're coming from. Thought mine have to be longer than it's about a guy and his dog. Though I can edit threads so if people ever needed something fixed in a thread like that I could help them out.

I enjoy the long more descriptive ones that give a good idea but nothing special away, but mostly I read whatever regardless if I'm asked or if it's being ignored.

This applies to everyone:

The first thing people see is your writing, including what you say in comments. You really hurt yourself by sloppy grammar and poor spelling. Why would anyone looking to sell their writing let their words defeat that purpose?

Use a dictionary. Don't put "there" when you mean "their". Or "bare" when you mean "bear". Or put "it's" when you mean "its". Like: It's (meaning "it is") time to run. The truck dropped off its load. (The truck didn't drop off "it is" load.)

These things are noticed, and you risk depreciating your value as a writer.

I think you're wrong.

Casey, who is not here anymore was terrible at grammar and spelling and everyone read his screenplays (Good or Bad) they still read them.

I can think of many people as well with poor grammar and spelling that still get work read when they needed it.

Some people just read the stuff to complain about spelling and grammar but still they read it.

Quoted from Old Time Wesley The bigger problem is the huge number of scripts by people who don't want to be members or people who stay for the first little while and leave to other sites and continue to put new work up but not actually be a member.

Why do you see this as a problem? I think it's perfectly okay if people wants to share their work but aren't interested of spending their time around the board. If you look at it frankly, hanging around in message boards is a mighty waste of time. I just happen to find it entertaining at times. But not always. There are several people who don't like it at all.

But what comes to spelling and grammar, I agree that those are important if you want to be taken seriously. They're just like proper format. If you haven't bothered to make your script look good in addition to writing it well, I don't see any point in even posting it since you obviously don't take the craft seriously and aren't willing to spend time on polishes.

Then again, I'm the last person to say anything about grammar, aren't I? But I think me being Finnish and not having English as a primary language is a fair excuse. Before I posted my scripits, I posted to the 'I'm looking for...' forum and tried to find someone who would've been interested to doing a grammar edit on my script. I wasn't surprised when I didn't get a single answer.

Although I've moved on from that I think it is important if you want to post a screenplay on this or any other community you need to at least introduce yourself and make an effort to say hi every now and than.

You can't be forced to do any of that but also people will choose not to read your work because if nobody hears the comments why make them? I don't want to review a screenplay when I know the writer isn't here and may not even care.

People who take the time to review scripts deserve some way to know that the person cares.

Don should elaborate on the rules to say "Don't join if you aren't going to post" it's pointless, I understand if you're just here for yourself and don't care about anyone else but don't join if you don't plan on posting ever.

Is that really asking a lot? Lots of people with lives and way to much to do find the time, Don himself probably has a busy life with family and work but even he posts and gets to know people.

You have to look at it this way:  Let's say thirty scripts are posted on the boards this week.  How are you going to make sure that someone reads yours over the next script?

One way to do it is to a great logline, introducing the story.  A lot of the loglines I've read, unfortunately,  tend to fall short.  They're unclear or uninteresting.

The other way to do it is to read others people's work.  It's a quid pro quo thing.  I've gotten mine read this way and I no longer read scripts oif I think the writer isn't reading others.  THey don't have to be mine (though it helps).


Phil

Quoted from Old Time Wesley ... You can't be forced to do any of that but also people will choose not to read your work because if nobody hears the comments why make them? I don't want to review a screenplay when I know the writer isn't here and may not even care. ... Don should elaborate on the rules to say "Don't join if you aren't going to post" it's pointless, I understand if you're just here for yourself and don't care about anyone else but don't join if you don't plan on posting ever.

I'm afraid I don't see what you're after. Obviously if somebody's not going to post, (s)he is not going to join. You don't need to join to the forums (or the community, for that matter) to subscribe a script to the unproduced section of the site.

And I always give feedback to writers by email. That way I can be sure the writer gets it.

Quoted from Pii And I always give feedback to writers by email. That way I can be sure the writer gets it.

The problem with this is that others can't learn from your opinions.  If you post here, we can have a discussion about what you think.  Also, a script is more likely to be read if there is feedback, over one that has none.


Phil

I personally don't see a problem with spelling and grammar mistakes being apparant in messageboards and forums. Yeah, it's a bit annoying to read if it's done really badly, otherwise it's not a big deal. As far as spelling and grammar goes in a script, of course, this should be up to standard - and if it isn't, don't post it officially till it is.

A good point was made about the emphasis of good loglines. In order to at least entice you into reading a script, especially one without any replies, a good logline will do you more justice in getting hopefully helpful feedback. Otherwise, if it's no good, it's like picking up a random book not knowing what you're going to read - 2 pages in and you could be through with it because it wasn't what you thought it would be!! I would love to improve on mine, but to be honest, it didn't seem a priority at the time of submission, but I think Phil makes a good point here. Like Wes, I am a sucker for description too, so perhaps instead of just a logline attached to your script, a synopsis could be in place too, to give the potential reader a bit more to go on before deciding whether or not to read it? Unless of course this would be too much trouble and more reading for the reader to do or extra work for Don?

I've read a few scripts now and have several more on my desk at home to go through, but not all the writer's whose work I've read return to acknowledge my opinion or anything... which is fine - I don't think to be honest I'm as good of a writer here as others are, nor do I think I give as good advice as do they, but I like to contribute as much as I can. In return, I think the author of said work should at least be around to acknowledge that their work has even been read and show that they have an interest in what we all think. Of course they don't have to post in the off topic sections of the forums, but I think they miss the overall point of the unproduced section. Whereby, your work isn't produced yet, hence why it's here. So why not work together with others to see how to improve on it, so that it can be produced one day!

Just my two cents  

Quoted from dogglebe The problem with this is that others can't learn from your opinions.  If you post here, we can have a discussion about what you think.  Also, a script is more likely to be read if there is feedback, over one that has none.

I'm aware of both these facts. But I want to keep my feedback and comments between me and the writer. It's not as if there had been anything that wouldn't be suitable for public eyes (usually if I like a script, I request an interview for Voice Over), but I still prefer it that way. One thing why that is that I don't want my feedback to turn into advertisement, as it often would seem to be the case. I give the feedback for the sake of the feedback, directing my comments to the writer only. I don't give it to urge others to read the script nor for others to learn from my opinions.

You can make a case for doing it that way.

But I say hype somebody's good script and warn people off of the flotsam.

You see I do agree with you Henrik but people do join and never post, ask Don he's had to delete a few of them. I was looking through the member pages and some people have done exactly that.

Yes, I agree that that is annoying. But I have to admit that I've done that a time or two as well in some boards. I've joined to a board that has looked good enough, but then turned out to be full of evil people who can't join in a decent conversation and I've decided to drop it.

Here's a link to a discussion at SLASHDOT.  The discussion has some interesting observations about the spelling and grammar issues.

http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/05/06/30/1532238.shtml?tid=215&tid=4

Yes... I'm not going to name the script out of respect for the writer, but there were mistakes left and right which made it such an unpleasent experience I got a little angry and was a jerk not regarding how well written it would be if there were not any errors.

So many people make this mistake when writing their scripts which is normal, but when you don't take time to read over the script it can really change how people reply to it. My first script is coming out, and I'm worried that I didn't spend enough time reading through the text.

So for a little advice... DON'T JUST RUN SPELL CHECK!!! It doesn't fix everything... It sometimes will mess up a sentence. After using spell check read over your script and fix anything that is punctually incorect...

Yeah, especially anything "punctually incorect".

I'm sorry, I had to.

-Zavier

bfd... One mistake

Just a joke. Take it easy.

-Zavier

I was just kidding as well... take it easy... lol

Maybe everyone can NUMBER THE PAGES on their scripts before they post them.  Believe it or not, it makes it easier to read.


Phiil

Are you speaking of when scripts are in HTML format because you can't see any page numbers? I hate that myself but some of the ones I want to read are like that...  I'm looking toward some guy named Alan. Ha-ha.

It doesn't matter but you can't tell them specific mistakes and what page it can be found on.

I was printing out a script when it fell out of the printer tray and got mixed up on the floor.  I wasn't going to reprint it and I didn't feel like trying to resort them without the pages being numbered..

I tossed it.


Phil

Yeah.  Numbering is an obstacle for me until I settle on a final draft ... if that ever happens.

Set the numbering into the header, so it's automatic.


Phil

If the pages are numbered in Word, will the page numbers copy when I use CTRL-A and CTRL-C and then CTRL-V to move the text into an HTML file?  I could check for myself, but *yawn*.

I don't think so, but I write in Final Draft and later save as an .rtf file to submit here.


Phil

I used "final draft" literally, not figuratively.  I don't have the program.  I was going to get a copy from Wesley, then I realised that I'm too used to my technique to change it.  Eventually, when I truly settle on final drafts of scripts, I'll number the pages.  

I let Final Drafts pdf format number my pages for me, I'm not sure how to automatically do it but it has numbers nonetheless.

I really do recommend PDF format for everyone who submits their scripts here. There are several reasons. The most important of them is that it looks the same anywhere you open the file. If a script is in html-format, I don't touch it. Mostly because there is no page breaks and it's really awkward to read anything from the browser. Even .doc and .rtf files I usually avoid or PDF them myself. Making PDF's is free and easy so I can't see why everyone doesn't use it since it offers the most comfortable reading experience.

I agree 100% but some people don't want to waste the extra room for the program which takes up like 60 megabites sometimes... I purposely use an older version so the file size is smaller.

I only have 30 gigs and when you use the PC for many tasks those 60 megabites can haunt you.

I wasn't referring to Adobe's software. There are freeware PDF makers that I believe don't cost you more than a megabite.

Henrik, could you direct us to one of those freeware PDF makers? I've been paying an Adobe subscription for months to make my PDF files. To release that $10 a month would be nice, and for those who have not found one, it would make more PDF files more likely around here.

And to reference the aformentioned page numbers, I use Word to convert to pdf, and I just stick the page numbering sub-program in the header. Poof! Auto-numbering. Pretty painless. I think I've usurped all of my former html scripts from the site, so no more of the non-numbered, browser only rubbish. It was a pain to reformat anyway.

Primo PDF is a free converting to PDF, I don't use it but people I know have said it works well.

The day I support PDF format is the day I get a better computer.

Here's one:

http://www.cutepdf.com/

Another:

http://www.pdf995.com/

Primo was already mentioned:

http://www.primopdf.com/

This one works online. You don't need software:

http://www.gohtm.com/

And for those of you who need one more, here's one more:

http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator/index_en.htm

And there are almost countless others. Googling for "Free PDF" seemed to give a nice selection.