Quoted from mcornetto It's much harder to learn how to tell a story than it is to learn the mechanics of English.

That's certainly debatable.

Every now and then, someone new joins these boards and for some reason they seem to do all they can to be disliked right off the bat. Amazing.

Quoted from LC ...but it is my opinion that if someone wants something badly enough and is willing to put the work in to learn the craft, this will go a long way towards them being half way decent writers.

Thank you for the welcome, it is appreciated. You're quite welcome to your opinion, I would never consider that to be combative.

What is the point in helping lost causes? Only 1 or 2% of screenwriters will ever get anywhere so what is the point in wasting time helping somebody who is only ever going to get to be 'half way decent'?

That's my outlook on it. If you can't spell, or write very well then I'm not going to bother reading or reviewing the script only to say how terrible it is. I'd rather read a good script and review that. Plus the time it takes to read a bad script and make corrections can be phenomenal. I'll leave the bad scripts for people that don't mind reading them. As I can see, there are plenty here already.

Quoted from DustinBowcot What is the point in helping lost causes?

You know, I totally get what you are saying on one level.

But this board is international, and for many writers, English is not their first language.

Matias struggled a bit at first -- though his English was always quite good -- and he has evolved into a remarkable story-teller with representation.

Helio also springs to mind.  His English is wonky to this day, but his gift for telling a story just shines, and if you overlook his scripts, you miss some gems (and, to be fair, a few clunkers). Same goes for Michel, one of our resident Frenchmen. Both of these guys also have produced scripts to show, and I think Michel has even had stuff at Sundance.

All folks are saying, I think, is to beware writing off someone too quickly.

And welcome to the boards.

Quoted from bert You know, I totally get what you are saying on one level. But this board is international, and for many writers, English is not their first language. Matias struggled a bit at first -- though his English was always quite good -- and he has evolved into a remarkable story-teller with representation. Helio also springs to mind.  His English is wonky to this day, but his gift for telling a story just shines, and if you overlook his scripts, you miss some gems (and, to be fair, a few clunkers). Same goes for Michel, one of our resident Frenchmen. Both of these guys also have produced scripts to show, and I think Michel has even had stuff at Sundance. All folks are saying, I think, is to beware writing off someone too quickly. And welcome to the boards.

Thank you. I actually have a lot of respect for anybody that can speak two languages, let alone attempting to write in their second language. Likewise anybody that is young.

My only point is that if I see a bad script, I'm not going to touch it. A few may feel that is unfair but I'm only putting into words what a lot of other people do already. I have reviewed bad scripts before, it never goes well and I always feel like an asshole afterwards. I'd rather avoid all unpleasantries. Just because I review scripts that are written well (and by that I simply mean comprehensible) doesn't mean I will like the story. i believe my efforts are better served discussing stories with people that actually have a chance (IMO) of getting made.

When I first arrived here, I thought my writing ability needed no improvement and that I would walk right into Hollywood with a job (Arrogant, I know, I know...). Fortunately, I was put in my place by a reviewer who is now one of the guys I respect the most. Sure, he wasn't my favourite person when I first read the review, but when I looked back on those comments I realised what people here were trying to do for me.

Dustin, I see your point. You don't want to come across as a dick when reviewing a bad script. That, I can certainly understand. However, it is my firm belief that no writer starts out perfect. There's no 'naturals' in screenwriting. Becoming a good writer takes hard work and determination (not to mention patience). How do I know this?? I've been working my ass off for just over a year and I'm still not a great writer. Maybe I never will be a great writer... Oh well, that doesn't bother me.

Which brings me to another point you raised. A bare minimum of screenwriters actually make it in the industries. A lot of folks that come here are only writing because they love it. They don't give a damn about making it in the industry. If they're writing they're happy. I've met a large number of writers here who could make it in Hollywood but choose to leave that for somebody else. Why? My guess is success means nothing to them.

There's no such thing as a 'lost cause' unless the writer chooses to be a lost cause. Typically, they do this by not listening to feedback. Those are the ones who are lost causes... But it's their problem, not ours.

Dan

I believe there is such a thing as a natural writer. Screenwriting is a separate skill to learn, but it is still best learned by a natural. Some guys turn wood, others turn sentences. What makes a natural a great writer though is the sum of his/her experiences and education. We can imagine as much as we want to, but we can never know for sure unless we experience it for ourselves.

At the same time there are a lot of people that could never, ever become good writers... and really and truly that is a relief. Just like you, I figured I could walk right in. Bit of a wtf moment when I realised the full scope of what I was getting into, and by golly there are even rules I HAVE TO follow. It's certainly going to take some effort to climb above the parapet, eh.

Dustin,

I think you will be a welcomed assets to the boards... especially with the regulars on here... some new blood in the water is what's needed to shake things up (IMO), make sure everyone is on game with their writing and not just complacent with the screenwriting dogma that is so easily dished out on here. I write this with love and care by-the-way. The scripts you seem to want to target with your insight and feedback, are probably written by those who are thick-skinned and can take the criticism, good or bad. So I think that it's totally fine to pick and choose which script you want to review and provide constructive feedback for... what I don't get is, why bother announcing to everyone that you are not going to bother giving your brilliant insight to those who have issues with spelling, grammar, etc?... You say, you don't want to come off as a dick, well... Anyway I'm sure your intention is to be honest and that's good, that's what is needed, and perhaps your skill set is more suited for those a little further up the literary chain... yet, honesty can be accompanied with tact... I see it done countless times on here, and as a "writer" this should not be a difficult thing to do. I've read the feedback you have left, and I think it's great. Sure people will get upset with negative responses to their work... it's going to happen, but it's their responsibility to deal with it and most people are responsible people, who know how to make the feedback work for them. As long as the criticism is "constructive" and meant to help, then you've done your part. Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your feedback to the various "better" written scripts on here. I think I can learn a few things from you.

Welcome to the SS
Best,
-Kev

Quoted from DustinBowcot That's certainly debatable.

I'm not going to debate it with you. Ask someone who has taught screenwriting which they think is harder to teach.  I think they will agree storytelling is harder to teach than English.  You either have a talent for telling a story or you don't, but pretty much anyone can learn English.    

I'm not going to debate it either, but it's pretty obvious that being a good writer is not nearly as easy as most peeps think.

Being a good story teller is a matter of opinion, and based on the movies I see, which is well over 250 each year, I'd have to say the vast majority of Professional screenwriters and directors are far from god story tellers.

Quoted from Dreamscale I'd have to say the vast majority of Professional screenwriters and directors are far from god story tellers.

I'd say I'm a long way from being 'god' in my storytelling, but I'm getting there.

Quoted from LC I'd say I'm a long way from being 'god' in my storytelling, but I'm getting there.

Oh My Good!!!!  Funny...damn...  

As a relatively new individual to the boards, I wanted to offer a couple of thoughts. (and for the record, I waited six months before posting things to get myself disliked most everyone here).

When I first got here, I also had the thought that I'd only want to read the best material here. I also wasn't sure what I could lend in the way of feedback because I was new to this whole world of screenwriting, not just this board. In moments when I have time to review scripts, I'll jump in on short scripts regardless of who wrote them. There's a better chance to get feedback if a person is providing it. That seems to be part of the way this community works.

Truthfully, I am a little more discriminating on feature scripts. I'll try not be now that my work schedule has lessened.

Seeing some scripts get picked apart and reading to see the specifics of what they were talking about, has helped me avoid making those same mistakes (at least most of the time).

In terms to the thick skin required to take the feedback...I can't say I'm less sensitive than anyone else. But the thing that's helped me is the attitude that, when it comes to screenwriting, EVERYONE here knows more than me. Everyone else either has experience, is good at this craft, or has studied this in an effort to make it their career. None of that describes me.

Also, if a criticism is off-base, trust the boards...someone will jump and provide an alternative view to either correct it or to post an opposing view. I've seen it happen regarding other scripts. You can also learn a lot from the discussion and debates that take place regarding some of the works posted here.

Quoted from Forgive What you in part missing is the fact the screen-writing is an adapted form of writing; so someone could easily be a good writer, but not know the style required of a script.

Faulkner wasn't any good at it by himself. I know he wrote the screen play for "The Big Sleep" with Brackett and Furthman and I'm positive they were all about format and following the story while Faulkner was all about the style and the words. Wilder said the same about Chandler.

Not to mention Faulkner's screenplays were terrible. Is Faulkner a good writer? Obviously, he's a good writer. I love Faulkner. Everyone should love Faulkner. But he wasn't a good screenwriter. He didn't know how to take what he does over the course of some hundreds of odd pages and reduce it to a three act structure that fits into a ninety minute movie. Faulkner's not a bad writer. He's a bad screenwriter.

Sorry Dustin. Just can't agree with you on this one.

Why are you bringing up a dude that's been dead over 50 years?

IMO, this is far from relevant to any conversation about writing and writers.  The world and screenwriting has changed so drastically since this guy was kicking it out, I don't know what point you're trying to make.