Quoted from Felipe Point me in the direction of the post in which I tried to "force" you to review a "bad" script. Good luck.

My original comment was that I will not review bad scripts. So if you haven't been trying to get me to change my mind on that what have you been talking about?

The first thing I said regarding your opinions is that you have the right to read whatever scripts you want.

What we've been talking about is your comments saying that a certain group of people aren't and will never be writers. That is what I referred to as poisonous.

People are here to learn from each other, so coming in here with the attitude taht some people are beyond help just goes against that.

Sorry, Felipe, but it's not that some writers are beyond help, it's more like most are beyond help.

Some can definitely learn and improve and I'm all about that, but for most, it's like trying to play on the PGA Tour with a hockey stick and a tennis ball.

Quoted from Forgive I was talking about screenplays and how they are an adapted form of writing and have been adapted over time.

In general, yes. I mean obviously once sound came into the picture.

Quoted from DustinBowcot the actual choice is between a very bad script or a poorly crafted one. Great scripts are rare.

Dustin, you seem to be talking about two things now. Maybe I got confused in the conversation earlier, but what's your definition of a bad script then? Because I thought when you were talking about grammer and formatting and such, forgive me if I've forgotten something, that to you was a bad script. But I guess I was wrong. Now you're saying something else I gather. So what is a bad script? Bad story? Bad characters? What?

Quoted from Dreamscale Sorry, Felipe, but it's not that some writers are beyond help, it's more like most are beyond help. Some can definitely learn and improve and I'm all about that, but for most, it's like trying to play on the PGA Tour with a hockey stick and a tennis ball.

Not all writers are here because they want to be professional screenwriters. Some people just like to write and improve on their writing. If you want to make comparisons between those, I'd say the ones truly beyond help are the ones with some talent who think they have a good shot at becoming paid screenwriters. No one has a good shot at becoming a paid screenwriter.

If you want to tell me that I am beyond help, fine. I can take it. There are people out there who do this for fun and when people tell them they will never be any good, it stops being fun.

Why do we have to discourage people from their hobby?

Discouragement isn't the issue here.  Honesty is.  Brutal honesty.

Dustin's simply calling a spade, a spade and a few, you included, Felipe don't like that and have a problem with it.

Hobbies are great.  Peeps love playing golf, for instance, but they suck at it...and they know it!  It does not mean they no longer enjoy it because they suck.

Know what I'm saying?

I know what you're saying. I don't think we need to hold people's hands and not critique their scripts.

I just think you don't need to say that someone is not a writer or will never be a writer. The criticism is important if you want to improve, but the criticism should be aimed at the script, not the writer.

"This is a bad script," rather than "you are a bad writer."

Great scripts are all over the internet, homie. : )  So I am confused by what you mean by saying they are, "rare"  I can email you some.  Or point you in the right direction:  500 Days of Summer.  Midnight In Paris.  Inglorious Bastards.  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.  Adaptation.  Stay.   Gary Coleman - Emmanuel Lewis Project, The.

I assume you mean finding a good script  written by an unknown writer, whom hasn't been declared as a great writer yet, is rare.  But I'd argue, you'd be surprised by how many writers (or artists in general) are overlooked and discouraged by others up until that one producer/director falls in love with their script, then all of the sudden that said writer/artist is now considered brilliant.

As for  your outlook on reviewing others' material,  I say you do you. : )

Dustin-
The problem with posting the attitude of labeling writers on the forum is that you are aren't just telling people that they aren't really writers, but are you also saying, in a round about way, that those same people aren't qualified to give feedback either. I don't believe that's fair, and it's beyond arrogant.

Quoted from Felipe What we've been talking about is your comments saying that a certain group of people aren't and will never be writers. That is what I referred to as poisonous.

It is true that a certain amount of people that train to be doctors never will be either... same as lawyers and any other profession you care to mention. Simply because they are not, and never will be, good enough. I also haven't singled anybody out.

Quoted from Felipe People are here to learn from each other, so coming in here with the attitude taht some people are beyond help just goes against that.

That is a normal attitude. I will help who I deem fit just like everybody else does. If I don't read your script it is for one of two reasons, the subject matter is boring or you have poor grammar.

Quoted from J.S. Dustin, you seem to be talking about two things now. Maybe I got confused in the conversation earlier, but what's your definition of a bad script then? Because I thought when you were talking about grammer and formatting and such, forgive me if I've forgotten something, that to you was a bad script. But I guess I was wrong. Now you're saying something else I gather. So what is a bad script? Bad story? Bad characters? What?

It all can make a bad script... but I won't get to read any of that if the grammar is off. As I will put the script down and pick up another without even commenting on the first. A bad script is one with poor grammar first. First thing I look for... I'll even look past a logline which not many here will do. Unfortunately if the logline is bad then it is more likely that the script will be too, but I'm still prepared to look past it.

Quoted from Felipe I just think you don't need to say that someone is not a writer or will never be a writer. The criticism is important if you want to improve, but the criticism should be aimed at the script, not the writer. "This is a bad script," rather than "you are a bad writer."

My whole point is that I will not review what I consider to be bad scripts... so how am I telling anybody anything?

I'm saying that certain people that write scripts shouldn't bother. I'm not saying who they are.

I think the main misunderstanding here, Dustin, is that people have perceived that you were planning on telling writers that they were "bad writers".   Whilst Dreamscale might agree with this tactic, most everyone else on the site won't.

However, after reviewing this discussion, I don't think you were saying that at all.  I think you were just explaining that you don't read scripts that you consider bad.  Fair enough, lots of people do the same and unless you are participating in an OWC -- no one will expect you to read anything you don't want to read.    

Oh boy...here we go...

Michael, you're saying that I tell peeps they are bad writers?  I show examples of bad writing all the time and try to point out why it's bad and how it can be better.

In movie reviews, I say that certain writers and directors suck for sure, but that's a bit different.

Am the bad guy here...still?