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OK, Rick, but I think it's pretty obvious who our competition is. The Pros do have the advantage, but all it takes is a good script and a little...or alot of luck, and BOOM...a new Pro is born.
Interesting discussion. I completely agree with what Rick says about concept. It's also important to show a sense of marketability, which must be a strong skill in the view of a pure seller aka production company.
If you have a deal, or not, with serving a great concept, THEY'll articulate where THEY see that concept exactly, and also what kind of story THEY could imagine to build up on referring to the material one offered. That's not purely negative. It's when teamwork begins, and also the other side's interests of course. If you fullfill their requirements to write that script and you convinced them to work together, soon the original execution of our draft says Hello to so many departments and a whole script development team. A final draft becomes a first draft again with giving it to the industry hands.
So, concept is the nearest card to realization we have.
I'd only combine concept with one single point I see equally important: Contact.
When it comes to the discussion about audience and quality:
imo There's no need, and with that, there's no want to execute those films in a different way.
I mean, if you'd sell those movies different than they do: Would it lead to a crowd of 30-70 years old academics also wanting to watch the Hunger Games, Purge or those Vampire rom-com movies?
Just imagine the possibility they actually didn't want to write/execute it better to not build controversy within their original audience.
Guys who don't love cars won't watch The Fast and the Furious. Guys who like cars don't wanta smart dragging back-story in The Fast and the Furious.
It's rational.
IMO that's why so many writers have to go with so many plot holes and other deficits to serve their marketplace. They simply have to meet lots and lots of straight requirements given to them. And we disrespect the pros for doing so. Maybe they put it together better than we perceive.
More and more often, a new writer pops up (usually seeming young and inexperienced) with an idea, often laid out complete with grammatical and spelling errors and huge plot holes. In seconds, they are picked apart in every possible way, and when they respond (usually angrily and often immaturely), they are told to grow up and get used to criticism.
Well. Constructive criticism it may be, but having five experienced and capable writers rip you to pieces isn't a pleasant experience for everyone.
But it's an experience that everyone needs to have, you argue. To better themselves. And I agree completely. You've gotta learn to work throught that kind of thing, to better yourself with criticism. But it doesn't have to be on the internet when you're fifteen. They're on the internet because they're not ready to get ripped apart by producers. They're looking for a chance to nurture and expand their craft, but what they're getting is a bunch of guys saying "Well, I read this as a producer would..." and ripping them apart.
Give these guys a chance. You know, a lot of the time, when these guys post (I'm sure we know the sorts I'm referring to), I have to suck back an angry retort, because what they are doing and saying often seems immature and downright stupid. But suck it back I do, and that's the important part. Silence speaks volumes, and if nobody replies to people they don't like, I really think everything would go better.
I think it's very easy for writers to get scared off of this site. A young writer who posts his first script and has it ripped to shreds, who is thereafter informed that this is what it's gonna be like for a long time, may not really have much interest in continuing. Without this experience, however, and even with some positive ones, I think that we could end up with some more valuable members of this board.
That's all I can think of. I hope I've communicated my point clearly. I can offer some supporting evidence in the form of script links if anyone needs it.
I disagree with everything except the respect part. If you take the training wheels off your bike and ride before you are ready, is it the concretes fault you smashed your elbow? No. Is it gravity's fault? No.
When I make mistakes and someone points them out, I feel bad, but it wears off. I take it and adjust. If you rage on me cause I make mistakes then that is on you, and only you. If your criticsm is wrongly directed then you look like the ass. Sorry, pal.
You want coddling, go to your mommy and show her your work. I'm sure she will love it. I got no problem with driving away the illiterate until they are ready to shine. Just as others would have no problem driving me away.
That's just the way it is in life, deal with it. You aren't special cause you are born special. You are special because of what you do/learn to do, and how that influences others. Period. Your special passion will influence others, not your mediocre attempts.
Writers shouldn't write to appease other writers, so if you can't take a bit of criticism from fellow scribes then you probably shouldn't be sending it here in the first place. Just send it to that fairy-God-Producer in the sky.
You can learn from mistakes, you can't really learn from praise, and sometimes you need someone to tell you what's going wrong. It's their perspective, of course you need to keep that in mind, but it can only be for your benefit if someone points out a problem.
Style, poise and all that is subjective; but it's gotta be beneficial to hear others views. You don't need to change style to please other writers, but it might be interesting to learn why it's annoying,.
Perhaps the problem for some is how the criticism is delivered, there might be a snarky comment attached which might piss people off, but you've got to become more thick skinned.
I'm a newbie on here, and my reviews so far are awful, very short and just say that I left after X amount of pages. I say this because if I watch a film and it's not my cup of tea, I'm turning the channel. Why is it any different to scripts?
I'm a newbie on here, and my reviews so far are awful, very short and just say that I left after X amount of pages. I say this because if I watch a film and it's not my cup of tea, I'm turning the channel. Why is it any different to scripts?
Well put...exactly. I refer to it as sitting down at a buffet...if you don't like what you got on your first trip, leave the plate and go back for new stuff...you'll probably find something you like at some point.
I don't think anyone wants and deserves that. You can't tell some wannabee he's the next Steven Speilberg just to keep people interested in the forum...
That's more cruel than any negative criticism could ever be. That's cockteasing.
Well put...exactly. I refer to it as sitting down at a buffet...if you don't like what you got on your first trip, leave the plate and go back for new stuff...you'll probably find something you like at some point.
Welcome aboard, Steve.
Thanks Dreamscale,
I'm not about putting people down, but I'm trying to be realistic.
If my scripts don't work, I want to know why. There's a problem, and some people on here are happy to help point them out. Others just gloss over it. Now what is going to be more helpful in a rewrite?
For all the chatter on here, the Bottom Line is really quite simple.
This is a message board, and a free one at that. It runs on people.
That's the real currency here. That's what keeps the engine going.
Continue to chase off new writers with purposefully dickish comments, and eventually, the board withers away.
If you find this board useful -- and want it to thrive -- don't be a dick.
Help to build it up and everybody wins.
Exactamundo!
If you just want to show how clever you are you can do that with your mates, or even your Mum and Dad - they're always a captive audience, least mine are.
No one is suggesting anyone should be given false hope. All that's being said is don't be a jerk about it. There is no correlation whatsoever between harshness and honesty, so all this nonsense harsh critics like to give about “just being honest” is a load of bullshit. I give honest and constructive criticism and I'm the sweetest person here. Just ask anyone.
I'm just saying that I struggled to read some of the OWCs and wanted to give them constructive criticism... but then realized, well, if they're not good then they are not good.
Why am I looking to gloss my comments and pretend to be a nice guy.
I have to say what I think, that's the whole point of this forum.
I don't need to be told what to think what to say...
I don't like hurting people's feelings or emotions, and will always avoid that, but if I read something that's up for reading I think it's only fair I say what I truly think. Why lie?
Actually Breanne, I often mention you when this topic comes up because in my earlier days of writing, you were really really helpful to me. You offered explanations to grammar and word usage that helped me learn a LOT. I still have a long way to go as far as the English language goes, but back then when you took your time to explain to me helped me more than you ever know. Also, come to think about it, back then, no one was rude about their comments. People often didn't like something, but I don't remember any rudeness that drove people away. Maybe my memory is bad? I'd like to think not.
No one is suggesting anyone should be given false hope. All that's being said is don't be a jerk about it. There is no correlation whatsoever between harshness and honesty, so all this nonsense harsh critics like to give about “just being honest” is a load of bullshit. I give honest and constructive criticism and I'm the sweetest person here. Just ask anyone.
Interesting, Miss Breanne. Haven't heard much feedback from you in quite awhile. Welcome to the jungle.
Be honest, peeps. Don't be like Chris Bodily or whatever his name is where every scriot gets an A, A-, or something very close. Really? How in the world is that going to help someone?
It's easy to talk about when you've been through all of that for some years. And most of us are.
That society changes has to be recognized. I think as a writer, we'd show sensibility toward others' feelings while talking truth same time.
On the other hand we shouldn't talk irresponsible. I don't want to dramatize it; still, writing is the most dangerous profession on earth. Biggest risks, no paid education, nothing. Highly time intensive. Years, decades of unpaid work. Bad Reputation within society. High risk of getting drug addictive because of not getting through themes we handle, injustice, truth, reflecting life. One of the highest suicide rates- That's us, we, our community. Just listen to De Niro at the Oscars about screenwriting. It's truth.
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