There's no reason to use profanity in a review.  That's silly, and makes you look silly.

Other than that, the review simply says that the reader had to stop reading, and why.  To me, that's constructive.

But can mods partially edit messages?  I guess that's probably not for the best.  So I'd have to say, cut the review.  If a person has to use profanity to express their opinion, then to a very hot and unpleasant place with 'em.

Quoted from Breanne Mattson I disagree. I see ways the writer can use this criticism to improve both creatively as well as commercially. You don�t. I�ll leave it at that. Breanne

Fair enough.


More generally speaking, I think it's probably also worth acknowledging the difference between being honest and being blunt. I got a feeling some people mix up the two, and think the harsher criticism you leave the more honest it is. I mean, I've seen extremely critical reviews and then later read a script from that poster and found myself surprised at how uncritical he/she had been towards their own work.

But I think that has been debated before?


Look at The Child Molester (man I hate myself for plugging that script). A script much worse in pretty much every department, but the reviews, while some are short, deal with something constructive. And even when the criticism pertained to the offensiveness of the script it was done in a way that went beyond "I'm offended, this is bullshit!".

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-drama/m-1178273916/s-new/

There is another side to this that nobody has mentioned.

The ultimate goal of any script is to be made into a film. If the script provokes such an outburst, it is likely the final product would as well, were it to be made.

While we may want to help each other as a scriptwriting community, the kind of gut reaction criticism MAY have it's uses as a barometer of what the average audience member would think of it.

People can be very brutal when criticisng films. It's probablya good idea to develop a thick skin at some stage.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films There is another side to this that nobody has mentioned. The ultimate goal of any script is to be made into a film. If the script provokes such an outburst, it is likely the final product would as well, were it to be made. While we may want to help each other as a scriptwriting community, the kind of gut reaction criticism MAY have it's uses as a barometer of what the average audience member would think of it. People can be very brutal when criticisng films. It's probablya good idea to develop a thick skin at some stage.

Consider Hostel 1 and 2. These films were distributed in the mainstream, and many people found them absolutely revolting. Myself included.

And there are plenty of films outside the mainstream that are far worse. We don't even have to go Troma to find some. Some films thrive in controversy.

Sure, if your goal is make a film that makes a lot of dough, then yeah you're significantly narrowing your audience down by putting offensive content in your scripts. But that's what niche-films are there for.

I think it's fair to let the author know, in your review, that his content might be considered offensive and impair his chances of getting produced, but still, as a single sentence criticism it's not good enough.

Quoted Text I started to read your script and realized that you don't have any idea what marines are about. If a marine pointed thier gun and another there would at least be a lot of cussing and maybe some ass kicking.  sorry, but you lost credibility from the get go.  Write what you know.

I haven't read this script but I feel the comment is worth discussing.

The write what you know comment is very valid if the premise of the story takes place in 'the real world.'  Obviously, you can't write from experience if you're writing about aliens attacking or elves and dwarves but, in the case of a story that involves the US Marines, people will see right through you if you don't know the subject.  At the same time, if you're writing a fantasy piece and have a couple fall in love in it, make you you have some experience in the romance department.  

Virgins shouldn't write erotica.


Phil

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films If the script provokes such an outburst, it is likely the final product would as well, were it to be made.

You are a bit new around here, Dec, and are not quite catching the point about the "outbursts" that ensue following the debut of a truly, truly horrible script.  It is not about "the sort of film" it may or may not end up being.

Exhibit A, an old SS favorite:

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b-horror/m-1091483938/

I challenge you to find something positive to say about this script.  It's very existence is an aberration of the worst sort, and it deserves every horrid review that it gets.

After glancing at this script, do you still contend that the author should not be told he has written an abomination -- in firm and unmistakable language?

When you post a script for feedback, by default you asking people to read your script and give you feedback.  You take your chances, and do not always get what you want.

And reviewers will express themselves in a variety of ways, and sometimes, sarcasm or "bashing" -- if you can back it up -- is not an unreasonable way to go.  It makes the deletion of reviews a tricky business.

Is there anyone here who feels that a horrible script shouldn't be called horrible? Is that what we're debating?

Quoted Text After glancing at this script, do you still contend that the author should not be told he has written an abomination -- in firm and unmistakable language?

To be honest Bert, I think you are arguing with the wrong person.

My point was that I couldn't care less how nasty some people are about scripts, if it is an honest opinion. I've never said that they shouldn't say it anywhere.

I was saying it might help to develop a thick skin.

And the cabin wasn't even that bad. I just read it, it was quite enjoyable.

At least it didn't bore me which for me is the worst possible thing it could do.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films And the cabin wasn't even that bad. I just read it, it was quite enjoyable.

Hahaha -- you are a sick man, dec.  Maybe an "ass shining in the moonlight" does speak to some people after all...

To bad the author is not around to know he has finally reached his audience.

Quoted from TJ Is there anyone here who feels that a horrible script shouldn't be called horrible? Is that what we're debating?

Yes.  Thank you for stating it so succinctly.  That is kind of what I was after here.

People will frequently jump on a reviewer for saying just that -- sometimes sending me a PM to delete it -- sometimes from their own scripts, which is the hardest to decide what to do.

I was looking for some guidelines -- and have seen many emerge on this thread already -- as too how much "script abuse" constitutes too much from a reviewer.

I think that was the central question, although some sidetracks are obviously inevitable.

Quoted from Scar Tissue Films And the cabin wasn't even that bad. I just read it, it was quite enjoyable.

And I've just wet my pants.....


Phil (frightened, not stirred)

Quoted Text Hahaha -- you are a sick man, dec.  Maybe an "A** shining in the moonlight" does speak to some people after all...

It would translate to film well at least.

Quoted Text And the cabin wasn't even that bad. I just read it, it was quite enjoyable.

Don't get me wrong, it's not very good but it isn't the hopeless case I thought it would be.

There are some positives there. The premise; the murders really being part of a campfire story, is workable if somewhat uninspired.








Alright. It's shit.

Quoted from bert Yes.  Thank you for stating it so succinctly.  That is kind of what I was after here. People will frequently jump on a reviewer for saying just that -- sometimes sending me a PM to delete it -- sometimes from their own scripts, which is the hardest to decide what to do. I was looking for some guidelines -- and have seen many emerge on this thread already -- as too how much "script abuse" constitutes too much from a reviewer. I think that was the central question, although some sidetracks are obviously inevitable.

Ah. Well I think as long as you're trashing the script and not the author, it's kosher. If someone feels a script is the worst piece of garbage they've ever read, they should be allowed to say so, so long as they back it up with more than just an expletive.

Quoted from Death Monkey Ah. Well I think as long as you're trashing the script and not the author, it's kosher. If someone feels a script is the worst piece of garbage they've ever read, they should be allowed to say so, so long as they back it up with more than just an expletive.

Great advice.

"I hated this script because of....point A, point B, point C."

No one can get better if they aren't sure where their mistakes are.

I think you can give a negative review with out being cruel or mean.  You can do it in a way that won't be hurtful or degrading to the writer.  There is no need to be cruel in a review to someone who has done nothing wrong.

there are people who put others down because their life didn't turn out the way they wanted it to, so by being mean to others is what they do, and I find this unacceptable, But there is a part of me that actually feels sorry for these people, they must really think their life sucks for them to put others down to make themselves feel better, I do pity them.

I also think people shouldn't stand behind these kind of people, we should stand up to bullies not back them up, I hope I never turn into that mean old man that sits on the deck and yells at all the youngin's around sayin "In my day.......".   I don't want a black hole where my heart should be.

We need to be nicer to one another, even when we criticize them, do it in a constructive and positive way, not mean spirited.  We all have bad days and sometimes say things we don't mean, or we joke around and people take something the wrong way, it happens, I am guilty of this, I speak before I think, but my thoughts are never meant to be hurtful.

I have never tried to be mean or put someone down who did nothing wrong, and if I did I would want someone to let me know that I did, I hope that we think of peoples feelings, I see meanness everyday, where I work, when I'm out, and it makes me sad.

We all get better with constructive critisism, as long as it is given the right way, being is a jerk is not okay, siding with a bully is not ok, not sticking up for others when they are getting bullied is not ok.

So yeah, I'm a dork I guess, I try not to be mean or cruel to people who have done nothing wrong, and I will continue to live my life like that no matter how much of an idiot people think I am for it.